Monday bf and I were at the bar with my brother. Brother brings up when are we (bf and I) getting married? So I jump my brother because I don't want him pressuring my bf. Don't want any of my family pressuring either of us on the topic. I guess I was being overprotective, but I don't want my bf to feel uncomfortable. (We've discussed marriage in a very general future type way up until this point.. along the lines of maybe someday far far away.)
Wednesday my bf brings up the fact that I jumped my brother about marriage. And how when I met my bf I told him I never wanted to get married again. Ever. I was pretty adamant about it at the time. I try to explain why I jumped my brother, and that I'm would really like to marry bf. He had brought this up in a joking way, like he wasn't very comfortable talking about it (maybe)?
Sunday over breakfast he brings it up again. How I abruptly cut my brother off when he asked about marriage. I explained again my reasonings. That I didn't feel my brother was asking in a caring kind of way, but to cause discomfort. Conversation continues about marriage. He asks why I don't want it. I told him again that I did, but I wasn't sure we were at that point in our relationship yet. He'd also said in the past that his ex's tried to pressure him really hard to get married and he didn't like it. I didn't want to do that.
We were discussing what reasons there were for getting married. What marriage means, or what it should represent to us. I said love, security, and support for ambition/goals. He asks if I have that already. I said yes.
He then says he doesnt' feel he has security. He gives the example of the time that I had packed all my bags to leave and he came home. This wasn't that long ago. 3-4 mnths ago. I hadn't left, I was waiting for him to come home before making the final decision and he knows that.
He then asks me "yes or no, do you feel I have the same level of security that you do?" I felt like if I answered yes or no I was setting myself up for him to use it against me. Because he said if I answered no, then I was admitting I saw how it was unfair to him. That I got something he didn't. But he was just telling me he didn't feel he had the same level of security. So if I answered yes I thought he did, then I'm discounting what he felt.
This just escalates from here. I don't remember how it got so out of hand, but I stated that someteims I didn't feel I could talk to him about stuff going on in my head because he'd get upset with me. That it would turn into an argument. He got upset. Said we should just call it over with. Break up and end it. That we're just fighting over the same stuff we've been fighting about for 2 years. But it wasn't the same.
He said we should break up 3 times now in less then 48 hours. He's so angry at me that he wouldn't come to bed last night. He started crying. Said he knew he wasn't perfect, and something about if he wasn't enough... 2 and a half years I'd never seen the man cry, and he started crying. And you don't understand how much he puts stock in his manliness. He doens't cry. I didn't know what to do. He goes upstairs and I follow a minute later. He locked the bedroom door so I couldn't go in. He came out an hour later just steaming mad again. Said we should break up. I had to go to class and he wouldn't even say goodbye. Nothing.
All this... and I wonder.... is all this anger because he's incredibly hurt? Because I haven't jumped up and down at the prospect of marriage? I know he deals with emotions first in anger. He feels powerless at his job, powerless and frustrated in his dealings with the phone company and doctors. No one seems to want to help him, just tell him he's wrong. So is this somewhat of a control issue too? We feel in control when we feel like our partner wants us more then maybe we want them? Is he hurt, feels powerless because I seem to control whether we marry or not, and he doesn't? And maybe he fears I'll leave? Would he cover intense fear and pain with that much anger? Or am I being inconsiderate by requesting that a text message "i'm sorry" should be followed up with a face to face apology.
3 months ago he broke up with me. We really seemed to be headed in a better direction. We were figuring it out. I understood him better, he understood me better. It was good. Sunday he says he wants to marry me. And today he wants to end it. I don't understand.
This is my opionion. I think you two have alot going.
Don't break up but take 1 or day for both of you to cool off, tell him that. Both of you to cool off as in stay under the same roof. Sit down and both of you talk. Now make sure you do not have classes and he is not just coming home. If you have to do something romantic for both of you, bubble bath, candles, lingerie, etc... whatever. But you two need to sit down and chat.
I might get stomped on for this but I'll say it. For you, I think you need a leap of faith.
For him, he needs to work on his "control" issue. I had a ex who hates to "lose control" and I told her that is why I don't care to much about control; just know what is going on and be able to take back contrl. One can not control everything even when one is the boss. She would keep the place clean as her way of control.
I've proposed to 3 women so far and when they rejected my offer, it took me awhile to be able to talk to them. the women want to continue as nothing happened however it is not the same and I started to drift. Basically I proposed on sunday and "gave up" monday.
I might get stomped on for this but I'll say it. For you, I think you need a leap of faith.
He said this too.
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I've proposed to 3 women so far and when they rejected my offer, it took me awhile to be able to talk to them. the women want to continue as nothing happened however it is not the same and I started to drift. Basically I proposed on sunday and "gave up" monday.
I didn't turn him down though!!! I told him I wanted to.
I know I have issues with marriage. I don't want to be controlled and told what I can and can't do. If he asks I'm more then willing to change or comprimise. But this demanding shyt pisses me off. He asks why it's so wrong if he wants to feel like the king of the house for a night. I said it wasn't, but when it requires I be the peasant that gets kicked, then he doesn't have a right. He said I have to give him leeway. I said I do. But if I never say anything, then he'll think it's okay to do. He tells me I should see he doesn't take anything he hasn't given double for, and that if I'm so concerned he's going to turn into an abusive ******* then I should leave.
He said he already apologized by text message. That my demanding it again was over the top. (sorry, this is in reference to the "total rant" thread... where he came home and jumped my shyt for opening the door for him.)
I'm going crazy right now. He left to go to work and who knows when or if he'll be back. I don't know what to say to break through all this...
I think he got his feelings hurt. I think he does want you to seem eager to marry him. It sounds to me like he may have been think about asking you even and when you pointed out his flaws he felt let down.
Poor thing. You guys will work it out. But I would let him know you want to marry him. That is, if you do want to marry him.
I didn't turn him down though!!! I told him I wanted to.
Not saying you did or did not. It hurts to know that one would get turned down or learn of it another way. As in your brother.
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Originally Posted by Walk
I know I have issues with marriage. I don't want to be controlled and told what I can and can't do. If he asks I'm more then willing to change or comprimise. But this demanding shyt pisses me off. He asks why it's so wrong if he wants to feel like the king of the house for a night. I said it wasn't, but when it requires I be the peasant that gets kicked, then he doesn't have a right. He said I have to give him leeway. I said I do. But if I never say anything, then he'll think it's okay to do. He tells me I should see he doesn't take anything he hasn't given double for, and that if I'm so concerned he's going to turn into an abusive ******* then I should leave.
He said he already apologized by text message. That my demanding it again was over the top. (sorry, this is in reference to the "total rant" thread... where he came home and jumped my shyt for opening the door for him.)
I'm going crazy right now. He left to go to work and who knows when or if he'll be back. I don't know what to say to break through all this...
No one likes to be controlled. As a guy I would give control to her by giving her a ring. you do have a concern about being stuck with an abusive ass. You are setting your boundaries and he needs to respect and appreciate you. The txt message is his way of saying sorry but I feel (something I've learned lately) is to do the appology in person, the break up in person and not over the phone, SMS, or email. that is me or that I matured? Who knows.
Nothing wrong with trying to be a king for a night but he also needs to know that you can be a queen for a night also. Give and take.
If you love him and he loves you - GO to couples therapy and work this out. Learn how to communicate, and listen to eachother without getting pissed off and upset. Each of you have issues that need to be solved so both of you can move past it, and leave it IN the past...Therapy will help! Please, discuss this with him. If you feel he's worth it, then FIGHT for him!
I text message him last night and asked if he was hurt because he felt I didn't want to marry him. Then said I loved him and was really torn up about hurting him so badly, and didn't want to do that to him.
His response was "So why do you do it then?"
Which pissed me off beause I was trying to hold out the olive branch, and basically he smacked it down.
I text him back and ask why he hurts me. Leaves me on the couch crying because he had a tough time a work. I go out of my way to be understanding and tell him to concentrate on his job so he'll be safe that day, and that when he's rested we'll talk about it. And nothing. It was forgotten.
He said it wasn't forgotten, he just didn't know what to say anymore.
Maybe I'm pushing this too far? Maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion? But if we're serious about marriage, then this worries me. I really believe that people's inherient traits tend to come out more after marriage. So if he's going to feel being demanding and harsh one night, and a text messaged I'm sorry later wipes it all out, then how would he be after marriage? After he knows I can't leave?
I'm scared of marriage to begin with. I'm scared of people attempting to control me. I'm scared of feeling like I'm trapped. Right now I its okay, because I can leave at any time. But after marriage... I make that vow, then its for life. I don't feel I can talk to him about it now because he's already pissed. And he gets defensive and feels that I'm attacking him, accusing him of being super control freak or something. I'm standing my ground on his behavior the other night because I don't want that to be okay. Because it scares me it'll be worse after marriage.
But it's not all him. Its also baggage I have from my previous marriage. I'm scared to death I'll get into another situation like that again. Scared shytless.
He's hurt, I'm hurt. This sucks, and I have to go sit in class for the next 3 hours and listen to someone so monotone that the clock ticking has more intonation. ugh.
I don't know what to do about this. I don't know how to fix it because I don't understand what his problem is. He wouldn't answer about the marriage question in the text message. I don't understand why he's so upset. I'm missing something, and can't figure out what.
You're both hurt and put up boundaries. I would say you goto your class and listen to monotone prof while he goes to work. I think you two need to sit face to face and actually discuss a few things as adults instead of SMS tag.
Make time and I'm not saying 15 minutes, I'm saying leave your phones, cell phones, etc... at home while you two sit and talk to each other about your feelings and insecurities.
He said it wasn't forgotten, he just didn't know what to say anymore.
Maybe I'm pushing this too far? Maybe I'm blowing this out of proportion?
Men and women deal with conflict differently. Look you gender differences in conflict management. Women can handle MUCH higher levels of emotional arousal than men can. So what happens, a lot, is that women are still up and ready to work it out at a point in the conflict when many men are about to fall apart and lose it. There's a good book about this called "Fighting For your Marriage" by Markman, Stanley and Blumberg.
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So if he's going to feel being demanding and harsh one night, and a text messaged I'm sorry later wipes it all out, then how would he be after marriage? After he knows I can't leave?
Was he holding out the olive branch?
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I'm standing my ground on his behavior the other night because I don't want that to be okay.
Don't act out of fear. Healthy peer relationships don't involve punishment and ultimatum. You shouldn't be in the position to hold something over his head in the attempt to teach him that how he behaves is wrong. He should understand through your initial reaction, and further discussion at a later date. Punishment only makes one or the other partner feel inferior.
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Its also baggage I have from my previous marriage. I'm scared to death I'll get into another situation like that again. Scared shytless.
Believe me, Walk. I am intimately familiar with the destructive capabilites of fear-based motivation. I have destroyed many relationships, and many men (most of whom are still single) because of the fear I have inside me from my past, too. That's the evil thing about fear. It tricks you into hurting yourself.
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I don't understand why he's so upset. I'm missing something, and can't figure out what.
From what I've read, and experienced, men get overloaded when most women are still physiologically OK with anger. Not optimal functioning, but still able to deal - because they are by nature verbally expressive. This is what I've read:
In general males are more physiologically vulnerable at every point int he lifespan They are more likely to die before birth (male fetuses are miscarried more often than female fetuses), are morelikely to die at any age, and are more susceptible to all sorts of stress related illnesses. They go through an extra developmental step in utero, because all fetuses start out as extrenally female and male development takes extra hormonal changes, and in nature, extra steps result in increased biological and psychological vulnerability.
It may also have to do with crying -- women have socially acceptible built in release mechanisms for emotional overload, whereas men tend to have horrendous physiological reactions to conflict that are NOT overtly observeable.
Typically women have practiced verbal skills with family and friends since childhood, and little girls are socialized to do this more than boys are. Little girls tend to talk earlier in development.
The common reaction for anyone dealing with an anxiety-inducing situation in which they feel inadequately equipped, is avoidance or withdrawal.
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I love these little people; and it is not a slight thing when they, who are so fresh from God, love us.
You asked for perspective, so I'm going to be honest with you, ok? Don't take this as a criticism. But from what I've read from your posts in this thread, he definitely sounds like the grand manipulator. My husband is a manipulator of my feelings to get what he wants, so I can detect one rather fast now. He is working on a guilt trip on you - to groom you into a submissive wife.
You have a strong head - good for you. You seem to be able to think and analyze outside of his interference. That is both the allure and the intimidation that you have over him. If you lose your sense of self - then you will very likely lose his love for you too. Does that make sense?
Your BF has serious issues with self-esteem and self-confidence. How can he take your jumping at your brother for being a rejection??? That is just ridiculous. If my H has ever been accusing me of being 'not loving him enough' because I was trying to be protective, then I'd get very angry, too. I'd say to him, 'srew you. Believe what you want.'
Seriously, if he doesn't believe that you love him, then I honestly don't think you should even try to 'show' him any more. The more you smother him with affection, the more he will pull away. Well, at least, that's how my husband would respond. You just have to let him come around on his own. He is the one who doesn't believe that you want to marry him. WTF is wrong with him???
Walk, don't let him do this to you. Stay calm. You were right to jump at your brother. You were protecting your BF!!! You should let him cool down on his own. Do not message him or initiate talk with him until he returns to you. If he decides to leave... well, isn't that a blessing in disguise?
Walk I am going to have slightly different advice for you since I have read your posts about this guy from the begagning.
It seems like nothing yoyu do is good enough for him. He wants you to go to school and then throws it in your face that you don't work. HE wants you to get coffee and open the door for him and then yells at you when you do it. I think he has done this with sex as well. Didn't he want you to do certain things in bed and than yell at you for doing them.
He has anger problems and is controlling and he is mind ****ing you.
He is maniuplative and demanding and uses guilt to control you.
I say take the out he said he wanted to break up do it. If you get married he will get worse and I foesee phyisical abuse in your furture.
He has you over a barrell because you don't work and he knows it.
Walk,
I feel what you're going through. you are doing exactly as i would and have been doing. my bf and i moved in together, actually just bought a house about 6 months ago. it's all in my name but we split everything. lately my bf has been very angry towards me and every time i say something about cleaning the house or helping out he gets defensive like he's thinking to himself "i'm not a little boy, i can do waht iwant, she won't control me" then he turns that into angry-just like your bf seems to be doing. my bf also sees me as higher up on the "career chart'" like he doesn't do enough for us and that maybe he sees that i don't have to rely on him...so he gets anry.
i'm just giving you some examples so you know hyou are not alone, and i could go on and on and on...i have really appreciated your thread/posts...made me realize a lot about my relationship. i'm not really sure what to say about yours, any way to help you but sit down and talk to him.
i find it hard to sit down and talk to my bf because he's either forgotten about it, or so he says or he gets defensive and then angry and it's a whole nother fight.
good luck walk, keep us updated. i know how bad it hurts to want someone so bad nad they seem to be able to run away and be very ill and rude to you and you sit at home sad.
one quick thing-does your bf ever get angry at you when y ou cry?? that normally escalates the fights i have with m ybf because he hates it so much...my thoughts are he can't handle it. just wondering.
It's obvious from your posts that your bf has issues. But on the flip side, the conflict in this post was set in motion entirely from the interaction with your brother.
If you're saying something different in public, especially to family members, than you do in private to your bf, then it throws up a red flag. Your bf wanted to hear you say to your brother the same thing you say to him: that you guys will be getting married but maybe not anytime soon. Since you jumped on your brother for posing the question, your bf thinks you telling him in private that you want to marry him is just you placating him. Hence the lack of security.
I've noticed that a lot of women have the tendancy to be very lovey-dovey in private but standoffish or even rude in public. As a guy, it's very unsettling when it happens.
__________________ I wake up in the morning and piss excellence.
With all this breaking up & getting back together stuff.. why in the world would you two want marriage to begin with?
You did tell him you NEVER EVER wanted to marry again.. now, your changing your mind..
I don't think he is the problem here...
Yeah, well... I'd just gotten divorced from a controlling psychotic *******. I wasn't even entertaining the thought of "dating" when I said it.
And although he brings it up every argument, we haven't "officially" broken up. He stated we were breaking up (about 3 months ago), then went to bed, and the next morning he acted like he'd never said we were the night before. Otherwise, he brings up breaking up in every argument. He never follows through on it though. Like it's a threat to get me to see what I could lose or something.
Blind_otter:
You had really good points. Not sure how to get over the fear aspect though. I thought time would help with that, and it has to some extent, but not nearly enough. I know emotionally he's overwhelmed, and he doesn't handle that well.
You feel I'm taking this "control" thing too far? That the point was made and should be dropped now? I'm reacting too strongly due to fear, maybe?
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