Rejection being an off-chance occurence is one thing. What does one do if it's almost all the experience one has?
If it's got to the point where one (however subconsciously) expects to be rejected (both directly and indirectly) in trying to find dates, how does one get past this, short of cheap psych-up tricks that crumble to nothingness the moment one gets distracted or is off-guard or is in the heat of the moment?
The most direct solution I could come up with would be to arrange a massive array of real successes that would outweigh the previous experiences. Unfortunately I haven't any idea how to do that, and the mindset is working against me even if I knew what would work to create the successes.
It's gotten to the point where sometimes I think "Why waste my time and remaining emotional resources? I don't need to keep banging my head on a wall."
What are good ways to cause oneself to start expecting success, even if one's previous experience was nearly decades of almost nothing but rejection?
What are good ways to cause oneself to start expecting success, even if one's previous experience was nearly decades of almost nothing but rejection?
Just dust yourself and try again. That's all it comes down to. You need to evaluate why you're getting so many rejections. I'd say getting about 1/3 to 1/2 of girls to say yes is normal (the ones that don't tend to have boyfriends.) If you ask out 20 girls and all 20 of them say no, you need to figure out if perhaps your approach is the problem. How do you normally ask out a girl?
Trying again blindly and diffidently, while being self-sabotaged by expectation of rejection, is exactly the act of banging my own head on the wall that I mentioned before.
I'd like to know how to alter my own expectation of the results (without cheap psych-up tricks), so that people get a feeling that I'm someone who expects to have his overtures accepted. I am asking about how to overcome a perception that people have beaten into my subconscious and have that same mental faculty work in my favor.
The self-sabotage that this expectation can have unfortunate consequences in all relationships, and it can be nasty in that one doesn't realize one is doing until too late (or even not realize at all!); even if it's something as as apparently trivial as being a split-second too slow to return a smile from a friendly new co-worker in another department, it can make a difference in a first impression.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDog
You need to evaluate why you're getting so many rejections.
How is this evaluation done? I need specifics; everyone loves to talk about how people should learn from their mistakes, but it's actually very difficult for me to find out what I did wrong, if anything.
It's not like I get a "Sorry, I only talk to people who say...", or a "Get real! I might have actually considered meeting you again if you'd done...", or that I hear out in the distance "Hey you in the red! I'd have approached you and possibly asked you out if you were smart enough to have done...".
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDog
I'd say getting about 1/3 to 1/2 of girls to say yes is normal (the ones that don't tend to have boyfriends.) If you ask out 20 girls and all 20 of them say no, you need to figure out if perhaps your approach is the problem. How do you normally ask out a girl?
MD
It's been a long time since I've gotten far enough to ask anyone out. I'm having enough trouble getting them to respond even to a friendly hi, or to an attempt to start conversation. Very few even respond to a hi, and most consider an attempt to strike up conversation as an irritating imposition instead of something fun and flattering.
If you're going to ask why I do not simply dispense with conversation entirely and ask them out on sight, it's because I don't do that anymore--I've never in my life been taken seriously asking anyone out immediately.
I could use any help from anyone here who's knowledgeable about these things (preferably someone who's overcome it, especially from an environment which isn't normally friendly).
If it helps even a little, I'm 42 and am in the same boat. Every girl Iv'e liked since high school is automaticly attacted to somebody tall. I'm 5-7 and I know in the things I've read, David DeAngelo etc, says to act self confident. What do I have to be confident about? Nothing. See my other posts. I really like this girl from work, and I could have told you who she would fall for before she even saw him because A: He;s tall and, B: He thinks he's pretty special. The question comes down to how much of a B.S. artist are you interested in being? That could be the key. Learn to talk alot of crap. Act real cocky, bordering on being an a**hole.
Instead of feeling too sorry for myself I have taken the huge crush I have and tried to funnel the energy over to the gym.
If it helps even a little, I'm 42 and am in the same boat. Every girl Iv'e liked since high school is automaticly attacted to somebody tall. I'm 5-7 and I know in the things I've read, David DeAngelo etc, says to act self confident. What do I have to be confident about? Nothing. See my other posts. I really like this girl from work, and I could have told you who she would fall for before she even saw him because A: He;s tall and, B: He thinks he's pretty special. The question comes down to how much of a B.S. artist are you interested in being? That could be the key. Learn to talk alot of crap. Act real cocky, bordering on being an a**hole.
Instead of feeling too sorry for myself I have taken the huge crush I have and tried to funnel the energy over to the gym.
David also teaches that once our confidence is back up to healthy levels our taste in women may start to change as well. We'll be more attracted to people that are mentally and emotionally more suited for a healthy relationship.
Would you be happier with a hot looking woman who's a headache to deal with or an average looking woman who meets all your needs?
If you don't love yourself, if you aren't happy with who you are, then how can you expect someone else to feel the same about you?
If it helps even a little, I'm 42 and am in the same boat. Every girl Iv'e liked since high school is automaticly attacted to somebody tall. I'm 5-7 and I know in the things I've read, David DeAngelo etc, says to act self confident. What do I have to be confident about? Nothing. See my other posts. I really like this girl from work, and I could have told you who she would fall for before she even saw him because A: He;s tall and, B: He thinks he's pretty special. The question comes down to how much of a B.S. artist are you interested in being? That could be the key. Learn to talk alot of crap. Act real cocky, bordering on being an a**hole.
Instead of feeling too sorry for myself I have taken the huge crush I have and tried to funnel the energy over to the gym.
I'm curious. Why didn't you just talk a lot of crap and act like a cocky ******* to get the girl then?
I'm 6 feet 57, are self confident but I still have to face weird behaviour when it comes to girls. Being someone that teases poeple as second nature (being cocky isn't that hard for me) you'd think I would have an easy time. Initially they like me, but where do you go from there? (No need to answer this, rhetorical question I guess)
I think rejection is something you should laugh at. Go out with a friend and try to get as many rejections as possible. Have fun doing so. I hardly get rejected, but when a girl canceled a date I got annoyed because I am not used to that (but when I started laughing about it, and the way I handled it, things became rather easy). Get used to rejection by using it as a way to have a good time. (And if you use crazy stuff to get rejected, you might end up not being rejected).
An example of a thingy I thought up in a silly mode, wich works wonders. I start chatting with girls and make them laugh by being a bit of an ass (flirt a bit) and then I say: "You might think you look good, but you don't know anything about fashion, do you?""And then they appear really shocked. Then I tell them that they look crap because they don't have a rubber ducky on their coat. (After that I show them my cool coat with a really small rubber ducky on the sleeve, its really silly but I think its funny).
Sound slike a good way to get rejected, doesn't it? Well it got me five phonenumbers. Danger is that they fall for my ducky, instead of me.....
Last edited by TheSwordfish; 20th April 2006 at 6:15 AM..
I might be the kind of person who could give you some advice, because I always used to get rejected - didn't even have a serious girlfriend until I was 25.
As people will tell you, the first weapon in your arsenal must be confidence. Now that can come in more than one form. You have the strong, quiet confidence that women just pick up on instinctively; or you have the outgoing, bravado, gregarious confidence that can put a group of women at ease. Believe it or not, sometimes, the former is more desireable than the latter. I'd say that on average, more women will respond to gregarious guys, but some women are turned off by those types and will look for the guy who doesn't talk so much. But the one common denominator is confidence. It is evident in how they speak, how they walk, how they live their lives, and how they approach women. It's not cockiness, it's just a way of saying "This is who I am, I like who I am, and I think once you get to know me, you'll end up liking me too".
Beyond that, one big help is to recognize when you've actually got a chance with a woman (i.e. recognizing the signs of interest).
Things like...
1) Prolonged eye-contact - not a death stare, but holding eye contact for more than a second, preferably two or three seconds, indicates curiosity on her part, and possibly it's a sign of physical attraction.
2) A great big smile is also another sign of interest - in fact, that's like an invitation to a party, so act on it.
3) After that, there are the signs of real interest, such as when she starts playing with her hair or fidgeting with her hands when she's talking to you.
4) She starts suggesting future activities together. This one's big because it is dropping a hint that you two might make a nice couple.
5) But the greatest of all signs of interest is when she starts touching you - that's when you know you're in the game. A woman will almost never touch a guy she doesn't at least have some attraction to, unless that person's deep into the friends zone. Obviously, if you've just met the person and she touches you, you're not in the friends zone.
How do you create interest?
Well, cocky and funny is one technique that I use but I use it only after I have gotten to know something about the person. I don't just break out with it because I think teasing's one of those things you should do with people you're friendly with. I'll get back to DeAngelo's cocky and funny technique, but first things first...
I think the most important thing you can do to start off with a woman you're interested in is...just get to know everything you can about her. Ask her questions. Not goofy stuff, but just ask questions about her, questions that show a genuine interest in her and what kind of person she is. Try to get inside her head a little bit. Just ask basic things, but with a purpose in mind - getting to know every detail you can about this woman. And be damn sure to make a mental note of things, so when she tells you she likes Italian food and can't stand Chinese food, you'll know that a Chinese dinner might end up being your last date with her. Also, when you meet, you can occasionally throw out some details at her that you remember from a conversation two weeks ago. "So, how's your brother (name) doing?" I bet she'd be surprised as hell that you remember she even had a brother, much less his name and what he does for a living." Now what you'll want to do over the course of the first two dates or so is to start thinking of a few things you can talk about to build a connection (i.e. common interests). If you're nervous about speaking, then hey, just let her do the talking - trust me, she wants to talk more than you anyway. Just make sure you listen.
Cocky and funny comes later when you're teasing her about how picky an eater she is or something along those lines - something that's becoming evident now that you understand her as a person, and something that's maybe a touch negative but something you can both have a laugh about.
__________________ Should have been dead on a Sunday morning bangin' my head, no time for mournin', ain't got no time -- My Own Prison, Creed
Jin You are right in so many ways. (On the touching part, some girls aren't quik to touch, so as a man you can use playfull touching to make her touch you. Girls never jump away when I touch them. Girls have an environmental personal bubble, she'll only let you in there if she's interested, or at least trusts you, in some way)
The part of being the outgoing, confident guy. Well, I was selected by a psychology students in a bar, they wanted to ask me questions because I fit into their profile of a certain type of person. I like being the center of attention, but for some girls that can be a turn off in the long run. Confidence can come in so many ways. I can easily speak to a big crowd without getting nervous, but in other areas I might be less confident. I think being happy with, adn not ashamed of yourself should be enough.
I think that the biggest turn-off for women isn't a guy lacking confidence, it's a guy who's being an obvious fake. Sure, women want confidence, but they also know that some guys have more of it than others, and if they sense that you're not a complete wuss bag, and that you've got some good qualities overall, they'll give you a chance to build some of that confidence - and might even help you a little bit along the way.
I would keep my previous post in mind, and I would then start practicing. And remember that it's okay to fail along the way. If you fail, think about where the date went wrong and remember it for future reference. Look at the big picture and be positive. Remember, if one opportunity disappears, that just means you've got an opportunity with another woman.
I releate very well to what light is saying so I'll ask:
I understand the power of confidence, but from where do you draw confidence when all your experience teaches you to be not confident? I feel confident about some things, such as my job and my mountian biking, but there is little in my experience with women upon which to base confidence in that area.
When when you fail, how can you tell where it when wrong, and what the mistake was? In many cases I don't have a clue, and the woman will rarely tell you.
And yes, sometimes I can identify mistakes, but why are they fatal? I hear women complain all the time about what dolts there boyfriends are, getting too drunk, cheating with other women, insulting them, showing up 45 minutes late for a date, etc, yet they're still with them. Why are the minor faux pauxs I might do worse than those things?
I'm not saying that being confident is not an act. Its about being comfortable with yourself.
Looking confident is something else. As I have to look confident in my job I use some small things to make sure I look that way. I walk upstraight, have certain poses that make me look confident. Seemingly minor things like making more then just a bit of eye contact, have an open stature when talking with a girl, introducing yourself properly, smiling while doing so, will make things go way smoother.
Something I use quite often is a second introduction. The first time you meet someone you're atracted to, you will look into each others eyes while introducing each other, and most will not hear anything being said. I just tell her that I didn't catch her name and do another introduction repeating her name (holding her hand a bit longer and still making eye contact). Smiling while doing so of course. By doing so, you make sure she remembers your name, and you let her know you want to remember hers
I think tricks don't always work though, but I think its the way you do it that makes you look confident. If you don't get all shy and are having fun (you're not being funny for her but you're being funny to give yourself a good laugh) most girls will like talking with you.
Had a really funny converstaion with a friend yesterday, about the things I did when I bump into a pretty girl. We bumped into his sister and a friend of hers while having the conversation, and I (accidentally) did all those things I told him about while talking with his sister. He couldn't stop laughing....
Please note: The suggestions and advice offered on this web site are opinions only and are not to be used in the place of professional psychological counseling or medical advice. If you or someone close to you is currently in crisis or in an emergency situation, contact your local law enforcement agency or emergency number.
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