I met this guy, Tim, at work a few weeks ago. We had our first date last Wednesday night. It was dinner and a movie. The date was wonderful, except that he'd already seen the movie a few days earlier with another female friend of his. He said he didn't mind seeing it, again, because he liked the movie a lot.
We have another date planned for next Wednesday. It's a tour of a historical city. My schedule is a lot busier than Tim's. He is making all the arrangements for the trip. In fact, just to make sure everything is perfect, he plans to do a "dry run" of our tour with a female friend of his. They will spend Sunday together doing all the things that he plans to do with me, Wednesday. His female friend actually lives in the city. He believes she is a good source for information.
Tonight Tim called me. He was driving a female friend's car. She is in the military and needed him to take her car somewhere until she returns. While he was driving tonight, another female friend was following him so they could drive back together when he left the other girls car.
I like Tim. But I'm really uncomfortable with all his female friends. He seems really interested in me because he calls me every day. Most of the time he doesn't have anything to say. He just wants to hear my voice. Am I being insecure?
It's too early to set expectations for the relationship. I'm concerned because Tim has suggested that he would like us to be more than friends. Despite how much I like him, I can't take him seriously when he has all these female friends. At this point, I'm not jealous of the other women. But I don't want to get my feelings involved with him only to discover that one, or all of these women are more than friends to him.
I've been through this before with an XBF. I was cool about him having a female friend. After a year of dating, I found out that he had been cheating on me with that woman. Since I had never complained about his relationship with her, my XBF swore that I had known about the affair all along. I had trusted him. And I ended up looking like a fool.
yes you are being insecure. It sounds like you have had a bad experience in the past, and if you guys go any further you should tell him outright what you epext out of a relationship (IE you are the one and only!) but right now if you want just let the relationship grow and take your itme, find out about his female friends and see if any of them have a history with him....if there is then I might rethink doing stuff
yes you are being insecure. It sounds like you have had a bad experience in the past, and if you guys go any further you should tell him outright what you epext out of a relationship (IE you are the one and only!) but right now if you want just let the relationship grow and take your itme, find out about his female friends and see if any of them have a history with him....if there is then I might rethink doing stuff
I can follow your advice. But that leads to another problem. How can I take things slow when he calls me every day? Sometimes, he calls me twice a day. The converstations are usually short.
But I don't want to get used to hearing from him every day for two reasons. One, If he ever stops calling I will feel like he's not interested anymore. Two, none of my friends call me every day. The only time I talk to the same person every day is when there is a committed relationship.
How can I get him to ease up on the phone calls without hendering the growth of our friendship? We work for the same company, but we have different schedules & departments. We never see each other at work. I would prefer to speak to him once or twice a week. Right now, it's seems like he's trying too hard to be a part of my life, in addition to the female friends he already has.
I've been through this before with an XBF. I was cool about him having a female friend. After a year of dating, I found out that he had been cheating on me with that woman. Since I had never complained about his relationship with her, my XBF swore that I had known about the affair all along. I had trusted him. And I ended up looking like a fool.
I hear you there. A bf's female friends can either be a big source of tension, or they can be an added bonus to the relationship - depending on the women themselves, their motives for the friendship and how you click with them.
The "dry run" for the date thing would piss me off a little from the perspective that it's supposed to be "your" day together - seeing all these sights together for the first time makes it a bit more special for both of you...so him practising in advance with a female friend kind of takes the sheen off it. On the other hand, he probably has the best of intentions...feeling that if he gets to know the city in advance he'll be able to make the date more fun/interesting for you. Some guys are more interested in watching your responses than they are in watching the things you're responding to....and to be honest, I think that's pretty nice - and often a sign of strong interest.
I know the previous experience of a bf cheating on you with a female friend leaves a bit of a scar, but not all women are out to sabotage their male buddies' romances. On the plus side, it sounds as if this guy is an open, friendly person who likes women....and may well have better than average relationship skills as a result of his female friendships. There are pluses as well as minuses to these situations. I'd give him and his friends a chance. Obviously treat carefully as you would in any potential relationship, but it seems a shame to miss out on the opportunity to get to know someone who could bring some extra sparkle into your life.
I suspect most will strongly disagree with me and say that I am a dinosaur in my views, but if a guy has that many female friends with whom he hangs out with that much and rings you twice every day so early on in the piece, I'd be more worried that he was one of the girls (ie not that masculine) as opposed to those girls being a harem of sexual partners.
I suspect most will strongly disagree with me and say that I am a dinosaur in my views, but if a guy has that many female friends with whom he hangs out with that much and rings you twice every day so early on in the piece, I'd be more worried that he was one of the girls (ie not that masculine)
He who struts around the pub in virile fashion, throwing darts and knocking back tankards of real ale, isn't necessary the same man who sets his woman's sheets alight in virile fashion. Therein often lies the difference between a man and a woman's idea of masculinity.
I find your delivery a bit nasty Lindya but in essence I agree with you. The kind of behaviour you are describing (and I feel deriding) like
"strutting around in a virile fashion" is likely to be a crude, unsophisticated, probably insecure expression of masculine energy and yeah the bloke may well fail to "set the sheets alight" and last for less than one minute because of that lack of control and sophistication. But the energy is coming from the right place and yes will often raise the hackles of women - AND SO IT SHOULD - because what is the point of male and female interaction if there is not to some degree a feeling of collision of male and female energies, or 'ideas' as to what the opposite sex should be and so forth. In my opinion it is that collision which generates more energy, excitement and growth. But a man who blends in and mixes too easily with women is either a surreptitious little shyt or either lacks or is supressing his masculinity to try to be the 'perfect man' which is an idea created in women's minds as opposed to what men are really like. In this post, the man sounds like he is constantly chatting away with other women like a woman, constantly hanging around women (and not men), having trial dates with his girl friends so the date he has with Butterflying are script perfect and an instinct in Butterflying is telling her THAT THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG HERE hence her posting on loveshack. I am giving the man in this case the benefit of the doubt - I don't think he is being surreptitious. Rather I suspect he is or is trying to be a really nice safe guy who women can automatically feel safe and comfortable around but he is lacking or supressing the masculine edge that will make the relationship dynamic. Then again he may turn out to be the perfect 'lesbian male' lover (my apologies to lesbians for the crude use of that word). Anyway, perhaps Butterfly will let us know how it turns out.
By the way Lynda, it is all very well for women to have an "idea" of what masculinity should be but be careful of turning that idea into an ideology or a box or a prison. You can't control everything. And oh yeah, give the guy in the pub a break.
How long has he been friends with these women? Are they new friendships? If he's been friends with them for years and they've never dated before you came along,...it's pretty definate that nothing will surface with them in the future. Just my opinion and that's how I would see it.
Rather I suspect he is or is trying to be a really nice safe guy who women can automatically feel safe and comfortable around but he is lacking or supressing the masculine edge that will make the relationship dynamic.
You know. I must personally agree with this particular perspective.
I have met, and even attempted to date a few men like this. Even putting aside my apprehensions long enough to give them the benefit of the doubt.
What I discovered eventually is that there was a reason why they quickly slid into that platonic friend zone with the many women in their lives. There was just something missing (I never could quite put my finger on) that always made them seem better 'pals' than potential relationship partners.
Wish I could better understand exactly what that 'something missing' was.
__________________
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” ~ Mark Twain
You know. I must personally agree with this particular perspective.
I have met, and even attempted to date a few men like this. Even putting aside my apprehensions long enough to give them the benefit of the doubt.
What I discovered eventually is that there was a reason why they quickly slid into that platonic friend zone with the many women in their lives. There was just something missing (I never could quite put my finger on) that always made them seem better 'pals' than potential relationship partners.
Wish I could better understand exactly what that 'something missing' was.
sounds like the typical 'nice guy'. however...that is why women **** test men all the time, to filter out the real men from the supplicating ones.
Security & safety is good to some extent with women. But i think in every relationship, particularly women prefer excitement and adventure that's present in the form of being unpredictable, where the male takes the dominant lead.
Sombody suggested that this bothers me because I want to be his girlfriend. Well, that's partially true, but mostly untrue. We are both attracted to each other. The potiential for growth is there. However, he seems to be more aggresive than I am about taking it to a deeper level. When we met, Tim approached me with a proposition to be "my man." Right now, the offer is still on the table while we get to know each other.
From what I can see, he's not a good man for me since he has so many other female friends. I don't understand why he's trying to dominate my time and attention. If he didn't call me so much, I wouldn't even worry about the other women. It just seems like his words and his actions differ.
I wonder if he's telling me this stuff on purpose to make me jealous. So far, I haven't reacted at all. When he called me today, I didn't answer. I didn't want to hear anything else about a "girl-friend" he was probably with. I'm not a jelous person. So if this was his plan, the only thing he has achieved is making me avoid him.
I have a guy friend who tells me about his dates with other girls, and it doesn't bother me at all because that guy only calls me once or twice a month. Our friendship is clear, and he has never eluded to anything further.
Last edited by Butterflying; 11th March 2006 at 1:25 AM..
Sombody suggested that this bothers me because I want to be his girlfriend. Well, that's partially true, but mostly untrue. We are both attracted to each other. The potiential for growth is there. However, he seems to be more aggresive than I am about taking it to a deeper level. When we met, Tim approached me with a proposition to be "my man." Right now, the offer is still on the table while we get to know each other.
From what I can see, he's not a good man for me since he has so many other female friends. I don't understand why he's trying to dominate my time and attention. If he didn't call me so much, I wouldn't even worry about the other women. It just seems like his words and his actions differ.
I wonder if he's telling me this stuff on purpose to make me jealous. So far, I haven't reacted at all. When he called me today, I didn't answer. I didn't want to hear anything else about a "girl-friend" he was probably with. I'm not a jelous person. So if this was his plan, the only thing he has achieved is making me avoid him.
I have a guy friend who tells me about his dates with other girls, and it doesn't bother me at all because that guy only calls me once or twice a month. Our friendship is clear, and he has never eluded to anything further.
From the way you describe him...he sounds like an insecure bastard who brings up female friends to make you jealous purposely. he probably thinks this in turn will make you want him more because he wants you to think you have competition.
Calling often signifies he's somewhat desperate, dating game takes time...doesnt appear like he's one for patience.
I find your delivery a bit nasty Lindya but in essence I agree with you. The kind of behaviour you are describing (and I feel deriding) like "strutting around in a virile fashion" is likely to be a crude, unsophisticated, probably insecure expression of masculine energy and yeah the bloke may well fail to "set the sheets alight" and last for less than one minute because of that lack of control and sophistication. But the energy is coming from the right place and yes will often raise the hackles of women - AND SO IT SHOULD - because what is the point of male and female interaction if there is not to some degree a feeling of collision of male and female energies, or 'ideas' as to what the opposite sex should be and so forth. In my opinion it is that collision which generates more energy, excitement and growth. But a man who blends in and mixes too easily with women is either a surreptitious little shyt or either lacks or is supressing his masculinity to try to be the 'perfect man' which is an idea created in women's minds as opposed to what men are really like....
By the way Lynda, it is all very well for women to have an "idea" of what masculinity should be but be careful of turning that idea into an ideology or a box or a prison. You can't control everything. And oh yeah, give the guy in the pub a break.
Look carefully over your posts and mine on this thread, and ask yourself whether I'm attempting to put masculinity in a box to the extent that you are.
This reminds me of Fight Club. On the one hand, it portrays men reclaiming their masculinity after allegedly having it drained away by an increasingly feminised society...and that's the message guys I know walked away from the film with. On the other, there's that scene when members of Project Mayhem hold the narrator down onto a table and attempt to castrate him because he's trying to escape from his own notions of masculinity that he brainwashed the rest of them with? What's the message there?
If the strutting, guy in the pub is genuinely being true to himself and just happens to have an abundance of positive energy to spare, then great. If, on the other hand, it's all a big, puffed up, castration-complex driven, irritatingly noisy act that's designed to mark him as "one of the blokes" then that's about as firmly wedged into a restricted category as a person can push himself. I've got far more respect for the quieter guy who just does his own thing, and likes who he likes - male or female, and regardless of the social rules and norms that others try to impose on him.
He may well blend in, but that doesn't make him a surreptitious little ****, and neither does it mean that he's supressing his masculinity. Some men just wear their masculinity in a more quiet, relaxed manner and I happen to prefer those men and their brand of masculinity. I'm sure the noisy pub strutter can live without me on his fan list, as I keep getting told (by guys) that most other women out there do prefer his particular brand.
It would be great if one of the guys on this board actually started a serious thread about masculinity and what it means to them. Maybe you should do it, as it sounds as if you have a few things you'd like to say on the matter.
To Butterflying: I wonder if the issue of him having a lot of female friends has caused problems in previous relationships? Would you feel comfortable about asking him how he juggles the platonic friendships with romantic liaisons? That could be a way in to finding out just what these other friendships consist of.
Last edited by lindya; 12th March 2006 at 11:40 AM..
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