I'm kind of new here so I'll summarize my story: Been together 20 years, married 18, had what I thought was a decent marriage (though very kid-centered, admittedly). My husband's been cheating for 10 years with a "friend" of ours. It's a woman he works with (peripherally -- not in the same dept., but their stuff overlaps and they are in the same building). Like us, she's been married a long time and also has 3 kids. Everything took place during the day (phone, email, noonhour sexcapades in our homes and cars), except for some late night f*ckery when her husband was out of town and mine had to "work late." I confronted him 10 months ago, he denied, I got hard core evidence and confronted in January and he has dumped her / been remorseful / doing everything he can to fix the situation.
We are working really hard on things right now. The amount of hurt I have to deal with is so big and so overwhelming that there are times when I just don't know if I can get around it. I want to forgive him, and I want to work toward that goal. I just don't know if it's possible. My biggest hangups are (1) the longevity of the situation; and (2) the lies when confronted 10 months ago; (3) that he thought so little of his marriage for so long; and (4) that our marriage is totally NOT what I thought it was.
Is there some sort of "timeline" at which you should know if forgiveness is possible? I have really only known the full truth for 6 weeks. At what point do I stop wasting his time and mine? Or should I be more patient with myself? I feel like it's still pretty early on. We've only had 5 counseling session, and we talk as much as possible, but it's hard with the kids around.
I thought of this after Ladyjane's comments about letting go and making decisions, on the thread called "Can't get over my wife's affair."
I got hard core evidence and confronted in January and he has dumped her / been remorseful / doing everything he can to fix the situation.
if I recall, you, hubby, OW and OW hubby were friends right? Have you told OW husband yet? After ten years, he must be told IMO.
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We are working really hard on things right now. The amount of hurt I have to deal with is so big and so overwhelming that there are times when I just don't know if I can get around it. I want to forgive him, and I want to work toward that goal. I just don't know if it's possible.
yes it is possible, but not right away. the fact is, from my own experience, that it will take months if not years to overcome your hurt. If you want to try to make it work, understand that you will have many more lows to deal with. But stay focused on you goal and dont let anger rule your decisions.
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My biggest hangups are (1) the longevity of the situation; and (2) the lies when confronted 10 months ago; (3) that he thought so little of his marriage for so long; and (4) that our marriage is totally NOT what I thought it was.
I could have wrote those myself. My biggest hang up was the fact my wife admitted to a ONS, we entered counseling. But it wasnt a ONS, she said that to divert her conscience. And she contuinued her affair for the next 8 months, all the while we were in counseling. Talk about a low blow, but i was floored when she confesed the truth. All the work, all that facade she put up.
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Is there some sort of "timeline" at which you should know if forgiveness is possible?
NO
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I have really only known the full truth for 6 weeks. At what point do I stop wasting his time and mine? Or should I be more patient with myself? I feel like it's still pretty early on. We've only had 5 counseling session, and we talk as much as possible, but it's hard with the kids around.
be patient. you are about to embark on a emotional roller coaster. you need all the strenght you can muster. Stay strong in the down turns, and enjoy the upsides. it is very early on, dont think into the future, think about each day and each only. Live and feel your feelings everyday, dont hide them or out a wall around them. they will never go away till you feel them, deal with them, then let them leave your body/mind. But if you really want to make it work, at the end of this recovery, you will come out a MUCH more aware and enlightened person....thats IF you work hard at yourself. I know that sounds stupid now, but in MC, you will learn much about yourself as you will about your H and your marriage relationship.
I was soooo obseesed with fixing my marriage that i didnt want to address my issues. i know right now you think, but I didnt have the affait, what issues do i have. i was the same way. BUT after many months, and alot or reading, soul searching, and putting my faith in Gods hands, I can honestly say that I feel much better on the inside than I have all my life. i still have some issue to work thru, but at least i know what they are now, due to self evaluation in MC.
I see alot of anger in your posts, but they are 100% warranted feelings, but I also think you have a good chance at saving your M.
not sure of your faith...but I like to witness on LS
Jesus said: Forgive those who sin against you, so you may be forgiven by the Father in Heaven.
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theres 3 sides to every story: yours, thiers and the truth
10 years is a very long time, and I'm not sure I would be able to deal with that so the fact that you are says alot about your willingness to forgive. I wouldn't even be able to approach that.
Speaking from the other side of the coin, your husband isn't fully aware of what he's done yet. Is he in NC with the OW?? That is a must for recovery, as is marriage counseling.
Are you guys in counseling??? I would just make that a absolute must because a ten year affair is a long time to deal with.
It was over a year before I finally came to the realization of what I'd actually done- and my A was only a one time deal in the first place.
Give yourself some time. It's easy to want to jump up and be right where you think you need to be, but in reality true recovery will take a while. You want to make sure that the same thing doesn't happen again, correct? It took 10 years for him to break it, I would think any time period you wanted to take would be fine with him.
What I think should hurt the most about this situation is the fact that he's been hiding it for so long and it looks like he would continue hiding an affair if he could get away with it. Which really means he has no concern for you or the marriage. I don't see how you can stay with someone like that who put you at the bottom of his list for 10 years. The marriage was a lie. I don't know what more to say. But a selfish man who would let something like this go on for 10 years is not worth a dime. Truth is that if you didn't find out, he'd still be screwing someone else cause that's what he wants. How can you be with someone who would screw other women and wants that on a daily basis? You can't control him forever. If he rather be with other women, then there is not much you could do. Also, you don't know, but he might have had affairs before this one. You just never know. Because he obviously doesn't have much guilt or remorse if he's been doing this nonstop for 10 years, so it might be in his character to be this type of liar and cheat. Wouldn't surprise me if he had affairs all throughout your marriage.
Pix: He dumped her / established no-contact the day I confronted him. They had both agreed all along that they were not interested in leaving their spouses. Yes, we are in counseling. I think he is realizing the damage he has done. He claims to be committed and happy and I have doubts about that. I want him to be sure this is what he wants. I don't want to work on forgiveness only to find that he is not happy in this marriage. He thinks he is happy, but I question whether he truly knows. I struggle with the two lines of thinking - "happy marriages can include infidelity" and "no way could he have been happy." If the latter is true, why is he suddenly happy 6 weeks after being busted? It's all so damn confusing.
Thumb: Thank you so much for your kind words. It's so helpful to hear from people who have BTDT. Yes, we were friends and the OW's spouse knows. On the day I confronted my husband, I also emailed her (OW) and gave her the option of telling her husband, or having me tell him. I sent him a copy of that email a few days later, just to be sure. Then he emailed me to thank me and we compared a few notes, but I've not been in touch with him since and don't plan to be.
Last edited by Chump64; 21st February 2006 at 4:24 PM..
Guest, I really don't disagree with anything you've said, except for the worthiness of my husband. But I’m not really interested in defending my choice to try to forgive him, because no matter how I explain it, there will be people who think I’m nuts. Obviously there are a lot of redeeming things about my marriage and husband (who is also a great father), but many people will just dismiss them out of hand. And there is no guarantee (in my mind) that things will work out. But I hope they will. And if this is ingrained in his character and it happens again, it's over. This is a second chance; there will be no third chance.
I'm just curious, but how did you find out about their affair and how are you going to find out if it happens again? Because this guy must be good at keeping secrets if it took you 10 years to find out.
I found out b/c he accidentally left his work email up on our home computer. I thought it was my work email (we work at the same institution) and wondered why I'd be sending such "friendly" emails to this person. He denied it and said it was 'friendly coworker banter.' I then went undercover.
Let's just say it involved a lot of computer hacking, some voice recording equipment and some phone tapping equipment. (Private investigators are a waste of money, btw.) I will re-use my stash of spy equipment when and I feel the need. Right now I don't feel threatened. I think it's b/c he is in suck up mode and is too afraid to misstep. Plus I am just too drained, emotionally, to have the energy for that right now.
He is deathly afraid that I will leave him but I am not naive enough to think that will last foreer. Ten years is a long time; it will be amazing if neither one of them tries to contact the other. I think she is especially susceptible, since - from the emails I read - she is extremely needy, jealous and has some self esteem issues.
At some point, I will probably check up on him but I'm not going to live that way. If we can't re-establish trust, then we may be better off parting ways.
Is there some sort of "timeline" at which you should know if forgiveness is possible? I have really only known the full truth for 6 weeks. At what point do I stop wasting his time and mine? Or should I be more patient with myself? I feel like it's still pretty early on. We've only had 5 counseling session, and we talk as much as possible, but it's hard with the kids around.
I've never heard of any kind of timeline when dealing with the question of forgiveness. I have heard that it takes two years, on average, to reconcile a marriage after an incident of infidelity. But that's not the same as the initial decision to forgive.
In my situation...I chose forgiveness readily. I made it a conscious choice, and reminded myself of it DAILY for a very long time, until it became my habit. You can't forgive someone and then take your forgiveness back. Once you give it...you gotta stick with it. It's not honorable to withdraw it once it's freely given.
So yeah...I think there's value to be had in giving yourself time to make the decision. You don't want to offer forgiveness when you're not sure you really mean it.
But you can't sit on the fence indefinately. Life starts making decisions FOR you if you do.
A WS won't live in the doghouse forever. They've got to make some semblance of peace with what they've done. They can't get away from themselves. "Everywhere you go....there you are", right? You've got to live in your own skin. So does the WS.
There's also a case to be made for the physical and emotional stress of indecision, which will eventually take it's toll on both partners, particularly the BS. Geez...that'd be like standing in front of your closet, trying to decide what to wear....FOR A YEAR!!! Too much pressure for too long of a time. Exhausting.
I came to my forgiveness decision fairly quickly, in a matter of days really. I'll remind you that we're talking EA here, not PA. If I had caught my husband in a PA, I'd have divorced him out-of-hand. And to be honest...hindsight being 20/20....that might've been a mistake.
After the restoration of our marriage, I've found a value in it that I wouldn't have recognized back then. I've also given consideration to the matter of forgiveness that I wouldn't have had incentive to bother with.
Now, I have a friend who caught her husband in a PA a while back. She made a decision to attempt forgiveness for a period of one year. If at the end of that time....she couldn't forgive him, she would divorce him. Her prevailing thought was, "If I still feel this bad a year from now, I'm not going to wait any longer." Currently, they are separated and waiting to file.
I think it's somewhat proactive that she at least moved forward on a timeline. That in itself, is something of a decision. But at the same time....I have to wonder if there's something to be said for bringing your A-game to the table. You know...throwing yourself in at 100%. She never could do that. In some aspects, her 'forgiveness decision' was hinged on her husband's level of efforting. And that guy just had NO CLUE on how to make things right again.
I'm not sure what to tell you, Chump. But I think you can be reasonable sure that if you find yourself making NO PROGRESS forward, and still feeling 'sick at heart' a year from now.....maybe it'll be time to try something different.(????)
In the interim...maybe you'll give whatever you decide 100%. If you really want to try and stay in this thing, maybe you should bring your A-game FEARLESSLY. Afterall, what've you got to lose? What's he gonna do?....hurt your feelings?!! Damn man, he'll have to BRING IT ON after what he's done already, won't he?
You've done been to the show, hon. He ain't got sh*t you haven't already seen!
It's okay to forgive someone....and still decide that you don't want to be married to them. I think of forgiveness as the recognition of a debt which can NEVER be repaid. How could your husband EVER pay you back for the pain he's caused you? What coin would be good enough?
When you think of it in those terms...forgiveness is merely 'writing off' a bad debt. It doesn't necessarily mean that you're locked in to the marriage. All you're saying is that no matter which way this thing goes....you're not waiting there with your hand out expecting payment which will NEVER arrive.
Last edited by Ladyjane14; 22nd February 2006 at 1:54 AM..
I am sorry to tell you this but I think you are just at the start of the process. I have been through a similar thing to you and I was the same at the start: I wondered how to forgive and forgive my marriage back up. However, it seems to be broken down even further before ANY progress could be made. Ten years is a bi chunk of your life and I think at this stage it has probably not fully sunk in.
There is no time limit on forgiveness because it doesn't just happen like that. I believe it is a more organic process that happens gradually when you start to understand why it happened, understand more about your husband's personality and understand more about yourself. The bottom line is that some people forgive and some people cannot forgive. How your husband acts in the next year will be a big deciding factor.
I don't think you should worry too much about forgiveness at the moment. You had two choices really: to chuck him out or to wait and see what happens. You have chosen the latter so just be content with that. At the moment you should focus your energies on yourself and getting through it all. The rest will sort itself out.
He claims to be committed and happy and I have doubts about that. I want him to be sure this is what he wants. I don't want to work on forgiveness only to find that he is not happy in this marriage. He thinks he is happy, but I question whether he truly knows. I struggle with the two lines of thinking - "happy marriages can include infidelity" and "no way could he have been happy." If the latter is true, why is he suddenly happy 6 weeks after being busted? It's all so damn confusing.
I think it is entirely possible to be happy in a marriage and love someone deeply and still have feelings and sexual urges for someone else. It's all a matter of the understanding that your marriage is monogomous. If that is agreed to and he loves and respects you then he would not choose to act on the feelings he has for someone else.
Since you two had the understanding that you were to be monogomous to each other and your marriage was otherwise enjoyable then the problem seems to be in his love/respect for you. I'm not sure if this is something that could be improved on with work. He probably does love you very much but not enough to respect your wish of monogomy and not enough to be honest with you.
First you guys need to decide if what you want and what he wants in the marriage are the same thing. Then you have to come to terms with forgiveness.
Location: Straight North - sharp left turn at Happenstance
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Like Sylvia and LJ, I don't believe you can set a time-limit - I also believe, as LJ said, that if you've made the decision to forgive, you can't just go, no.... I don't think so now.
With that said. . . It's been about a year and a half since I found out about my H's EA. It's the level of deception that you need to work through, and it will be HARD!! It will be hard for a long time. If you believe the M is worth it, then just know, it will be hard not only for you, but for your h. He is NOT going to want to face the misery that you are feeling - that HE caused. He will also need to forgive himself - just as you will need to forgive yourself for whatever you choose to feel guilty about - and those feelings of guilt will come.
In order to get past it, I have put my H through a figurative meat-grinder --- and myself as well, I might add. He just wanted to "forget about it" and "put it behind him". Well, that might work for him, but not for me, and I couldn't/wouldn't do that. In all honesty, I don't think it would have worked for our marriage. Until he saw the true level of devastation that I suffered, I don't think he really realized what he had done. In fact he said on occasion that he had convinced himself that it was no big deal, because it was never physical.
It's actually only been in the last month or so that he came to any kind of realization of the pain that the OW went through. He was very concentrated on my pain, and his pain. --- what seems weird to me is that I was the one who kept saying -- "you can't treat people like they are your toys, she was a human and you treated her bad, too."
Anyway, it will take a ton of effort, a ton of love, a ton of counselling and a ton of heart. Best of luck to you.
Sorry I was distracted from reading everything but i grasped one important issue at stake and thats because I am dealing with a similar situation which happened about three years ago, when I sought this said forum for help. My wife left home after i found out she had an affair with another married man-The number of years went by with very little contact or communication but with me still thinking I love her, Needless to mention i suffered with the pain of understanding why-We have been married for 17 years- Regardless of the issue I am only now understanding that forgiveness is one of the issue u must deal with regardless of the outcome of the marriage. Phillipians 3:13 support the idea that forgiveness is a decision it is not a feeling- Certainly it is the first thing to do especially if you are considering working out things
Then once you forgive you yourself will feel much better- For me it helps the pain and I further realized that I don't need anyone to treat me a certain way in order to feel good about the fact that I maintaing myside of the marriage commitment -When you forgive try not to think too much of any expectation it is what "FORGIVENESS " means -
I learned later that the opposite of forgive is to "forsell" when you expect something in return this defeat the purpose of forgiveness.
May the lord help you as you seek the answer to this.
I've read a few of your threads and must congratulate you on your composure at such a difficult time. I understand how shocking and traumatic your H's betrayal is for you having gone through something very similar myself.
There's no way of knowing how long it will take for forgiveness to come to you, if, indeed, it ever does. It's been almost two years since my DDay but I still can't say for sure that I've truly forgiven him; I can say I'm not far off it though. I can't pinpoint when that happened, it kind of evolves without you noticing.
I very early on decided to give our marriage another chance and like you, was prepared only to give it that one chance. It was so painful I found it hard to imagine a day when I would be happy again, but taking it day by day enabled me to try.
Chump, although my H's affairs weren't physical (as far as I know), they were long term, very close, flirtatious, secretive and supportive. My H had also been seeing one of his 'friends' for over a decade (the other two for over three years and 18 months). Call me stupid but I had no idea, I totally trusted him and adored him so the discovery turned my world upside down.
My attitude was just like yours, tough titty if he didn't like how I was behaving or the questions I asked. I didn't want our marriage to end but I knew I had to work through the mess in my own way, even if I pissed him off while doing so.
Frankly I thought it was he who needed to hang on to me, not me to him. And if he didn't like it he knew he was free to leave. I encouraged him to go on numerous occassions but he didn't go, he wouldn't go actually, which surprised me at the time.
I felt like a piece of pooh, crazy, very unattractive pooh at that. I didn't like who I'd become which made me feel even less secure or confident. If I thought I was a pain in the arse then so must he, not the best situation to be in when you know your husband strayed when you were your most brilliant wonderful self. It was humiliating and distressing but there was no avoiding the flood of emotions I was going through. I knew it wasn't pleasant for him to be around but it was even less enjoyable for me!
Anyway, I'm rambling. Hang on in there Chump and brace yourself for a bumpy ride. It's only been a couple of months and I suspect the shock hasn't quite worn off yet.
Will keep an eye out for you here and post when I can. You've already met one or two of the bombastic characters in LS and will encounter many more no doubt. Don't let them intimidate you hun. Despite being illogical, unjustified and non-sensical you'll be able to learn something even from them. I've learned a lot from loads of OW, not just the nice ones but the crabby ones too.
Thanks Veronese. I have appreciated the handful of truly positive and supportive people at LS, and you are now among them. I hope you come around here more frequently.
I can't imagine a day when my pain will lessen and when this won't dominate my mind, but hopefully it will happen. I made up my mind to try and work this out but there are days when I have doubts. Did you find that as well?
My husband seems to be clinging to me desperately. It's almost too much, some days. But I know my crazy thinking these days, and if he backs off that would really tick me off. Somedays there's no winning for him. But it's his fault for putting us in this situation.
At the same time, I'm starting to worry that he's back in touch with the OW. I never gave it a thought for a long time, but it's been creeping into my head these last few days.
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Too much pressure for too long of a time. Exhausting.
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