Have been lurking here about 2 weeks, which co-incidentally is about the same time that I started to query my own feelings and the battle within to have the courage to hold on and be patient, started to slip.
Today I broke up with my girlfriend (of 2 months). In a way, I need convincing that I really did the right thing. Head says I may have, heart says I'm not sure...!
Have I done the right thing?
I started seeing someone 3 months ago (asked her out officially after a month), she's 23 (will be 24 in Jan) and I've just turned 30. The age gap didn't seriously bother me - in terms of it just being a number, however, she's still living with her parents and I'm living on my own, which already caused one issue when she claimed to have told her parents she was staying over one night, then she got told off the next morning for not letting them know where she was and her father didn't speak to her for days. I never met her parents and it is probably just as well.
We have a very strong common interest in sports and recently started doing these together - and it was great fun. I started getting her to watch old movies with me (Hitchcock mainly - no accounting for taste, I know) and again she really enjoyed them. We like going out, dancing, dining, drinks, whatever it happens to be. It is usually an enjoyable experience.
Conversation being a major part of any relationship is perhaps concerning. Does she ask about my day? Yes. Does she talk about hers? Yes. Do we talk about other people, things to do, things we like, things we want? Yes. Do we have *meaningful* conversations? Not as much as I would like. She is happy to follow, but not to instigate and it is often up to me to kick things off.
She makes mature decisions for someone her age, yet at the same time she can act immaturely (as can I admittedly - but I am trying - even harder now), plus she is very very loud (I mean window shattering laughter). I have a lot of respect for my neighbours and I truly believe my girlfriend laughing at 1am might seriously **** them off. I don't feel she is respecting me by nullifying the rules I've reasonably set for myself in my home. E.g. I wouldn't play really loud music at 1am knowing that I would really annoy my neighbours. I realise this comes from the difference in that in living alone I'm still learning to be more considerate, whereas while she is living with her parents she has that feeling of security to do whatever she likes - with what consequences?
Other things that have not gone down well with me is that she will touch my hair or leg when I'm driving - which can be obstructive, especially when trying to change gear with her arm in the way. Here in England, we need to change gear pretty often, the traffic sucks and the roads are intended for world rally championships - not point A to B driving. I mentioned the touching whilst driving part in a polite way and to be fair it has got better. Otherwise, holding hands or just general closeness with her - I quite like actually.
She's got a good head on her shoulders from what I can tell and I think makes logical decisions as long as it doesn't require serious effort on her part. By that I mean she'd been studying for exams (during the 1st month) and well, "studying" is probably the wrong word. She gets her results in the next couple of days and she really thinks she has failed. On the one hand she seems concerned ("I just don't get it! Will I ever pass?") and on the other hand she is not concerned at all ("Oh I can repeat those modules next year, daddy will pay for it.").
The other day whilst in bed, she basically spilled out her whole life plan about getting a maid to do all the housework and cooking, getting married and having 2 kids before she gets to 30, even though (due to physical) she may not be able to have kids (easily). Talk of a dog, 4 bedroom house, etc, etc was also rampant. Needless to say I don't have any of the above (and its not likely either). Not wishing to spoil her dreams I told her that she should try and remain realistic but try and set the bar high (who says she can't have these things - if she can get them).
I've been able to keep a lid on things, mostly due to my dry sense of humour keeping me laughing (at her expense). I've not been angry, but these points have had me seeing red flags maybe 3 or 4 times and I've said to myself several times that I should break up with her.
Recently (last week) she asked if everything was okay and if I was happy. Apparently I've not been as affectionate as say a couple of weeks ago. I admit I lied and said things were good. A part of me wants to give it time, patience... The core values are spot on for what I want, just some rough edges to sort out. Another part of me was wondering why she was asking and whether her feelings were also being hidden. She said things were fine with her end but she thought she would ask. Perhaps she was not really content.
I really don't think it is a good idea to criticize anyone's nature (i.e. how loud they are) to their face, I do not wish to destroy what self esteem she may have (as I know she can be really insecure). Although I do believe it is for me to decide whether another person's nature is compatible with my own. I think we get on well enough, but maturity is seemingly an issue - not in terms of actions, but more in terms of expectations. Idealism vs realism?
Could it be that idealism and maturity are the two key factors here that are causing the problem - and will patience, acceptance and maturity on my part help?
Anyway, today I told her that I'm not sure I feel I can treat her the way she rightly deserves to be treated and that it might be for the best that we stopped seeing each other.
Her response was very gracious, firstly asking if it was what I wanted, then saying spending time with me was great and that she thanks me for everything.
To me that sounds like someone who is quite happy or perhaps relieved to be ditched / let go. What do you think?
Look man...she was just too young to begin with....she didn't seem to take the breakup too hard because she didn't value it the way people who have more experience with relationships do.
She hasn't lived long enough to have a yardstick big enough to measure a good relationship or a bad one.
She's still a kid tring to grow up. That's what you're seeing when she manages to make a few mature-sounding decisions.
That's the direct result of having parents who have done a fine job raising her...but it's not life experience.
She has a lot of growing up to do. KNOW that before you continue with the relationship....and i you choose to ever date her again in hopes of a lasting relationship, realize that as she grows, she could grow right past you...and YOU could become the one she dumps in the future.
In this case, words such as intelligent, reserved, good looking, funny and suitable - all apply. She has the potential to make someone very happy...
I can see she has a lot of growing up to do. I'm sure she will, but hang on a minute - right past me? Please...! :-)
Part of the reason I started seeing her was that I thought maybe I could train her, being in a position of more influence and maturity, I thought this might be possible... The question is - at what price?
She has recently been banging on about God's plan for her and her religious beliefs (she does not know mine), so she now comes across as an idle person who refuses to take control of her own life - things will just sort themselves out. This goes some way to explain why she is not studying, failing, not studying, failing... Two years in a row and will it be three? She's not only living at home but she's seemingly not at all eager to find her independence. She has told me before she just wants to pop a couple of kids out and be a housewife. In these days of cut and thrust, I would naturally fear for anyone who relents to not having more to offer than this. Especially when divorce rates are so high.
I am certain her understanding of her feelings will change over the next few weeks, months and years. If we were together the things she likes about me today, she may not like tomorrow. Yes, it is entirely possible that she might dump me later.
I've learnt something here. I certainly know better than someone who has never actually been out with someone 6 years their junior.
A few e-mail's later and she now sees that we are not right for each other.
She's asked to stay friends and my reply was that... We've had fun and although I really don't dislike her as a person, I see no real need to keep in touch, though I may offer her a smile should I see her in the street. To be fair - how likely is that anyway?!
NC is the way to go from here and I think she will oblige.
I'm looking forward to meeting someone new who hopefully next time - will be the right one!
Well, I think you did the right thing, because it sounds like she annoys you.
But when you break down your "reasons" you do sound a little silly. You're upset because she sometimes touches you while you're driving? That her natural laugh is loud? It's one thing to say that your life plans just don't mesh, but another to pick her apart.
I've never had anyone say they wouldn't want to be friends with me (even if we didn't really intend to keep in touch) and it sounds kind of hurtful the way you put it. A smile on the street? You are in different places in life, sure, but your whole attitude seems not a little condescending.
Why did you even make this topic? To rant about how you are so much better than her? She was your "project"? Seriously man, get over yourself. You're the one dating "projects" instead of "mature responsible" women at "your level."
Last edited by magda; 15th December 2005 at 10:33 AM..
Magda, I merely described the situation. There were bad points and there were also good points. Is that ranting in your eyes? If so, there's a lot of ranting going on at loveshack.org and there's a lot of ranting going on around the globe... Forgive me for not feeling bad about it - whatever "it" is.
I created this topic for the same reason that everyone on this site has created one. I had an issue that I wanted to get an opinion on. Freedom of speech. If you didn't like the post, you didn't have to read it, you didn't have to comment on it and if you felt offended by it, then thanks for your advice - please feel free to add me to your own personal sh** list. NC is already working for me.
I never said "sometimes touching". There was no "sometimes" about it, more like constant and needing. Loud - whether natural or not, is still loud. At 1am when neighbours are asleep, it is even more so. If done repeatedly - people get annoyed - and I'm not just talking about me.
You say no-one has ever said to you that they wouldn't want to stay friends? Well - how's that for honesty? My new ex seriously wanted to be friends - making a reference to her previous ex who couldn't deal with friendship after she dumped him. Why would I want to stay friends? When I meet someone else, I know I don't want an ex lurking around to complicate things. My comment will certainly help her maintain NC for her own healing to take place. It will also help me stay focused on NC with her and help me with my own healing, because in some ways she was compatible.
What is this line about running "projects"? I never said anything of the sort. Something from your own past perhaps? I just broke up with someone, I'm pleased for having the guts to do it and you don't like it! I've been through several messy break up's in the past and well blow me if I haven't just had a clean one. I invested time in this relationship, I was intimate with this girl and I introduced her to my friends. I certainly gave it a shot but it didn't work out how I hoped. How is that a project?
You talk about dating "mature responsible" women... Well, if loving relationships were boxing matches and weights were age brackets, I could certainly tell you I've punched well above my weight and (now) well below my weight, but its really all just been sparring ... and it will continue to be so, until I meet the right woman who is somewhere near being "at my level" (as you 'so nicely' put it). Then - let the real fight begin and I hope it goes the full old-fashioned 15 rounds. Till death do us part.
Maybe I sound smug, but forgive me in that its only at "picking apart" your angry response.
... and she does sound like a clearheaded woman at least re: your romance. So, maybe this is best for the both of you. You weren't ga-ga, and neither, it seems, was she. It was fun, maybe a nice fantasy about could have been came of it, but nothing that grabbed either of you. Maybe after 2 months was perfect- a few months more and you start to believe the fantasy was some sort of promise and get frustrated when it doesn't materialize.
As for the age piece, when I was in my early 20s I used to date only people in their early thirties- youngest I came was... 31 when we met- 34 when we broke up (I was 23 when we met). Now, since I turned 30, I've had two relationships- one was 25, the other 26. I'm not sure what age means, I guess. But I do think some folks are at different stages, whether at 25 or 35, someone can still be at 28, get what I mean? (its late- not sure how coherent I am) Given that she is living at home and under daddy's rules and in his wallet, I'm guessing she's a young 23 even if she has mature forward looking thoughts - sometimes. Sounds like you are at least past that to want more. Move on and good luck.
2p, while you had some very legitimate concerns and reasons regarding breaking up with this woman, I have to say that you seem waaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy too analytical about life in general. Reading your post I could hear Spock from Star Trek in my head.
OCD?
This isn't meant as an insult, just that sometimes life, and love, are not things to be analyzed and catalogued and broken down into neat little formulas. they are meant to be experienced, good and bad.
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"I have done that," says my memory. "I cannot have done that," says my pride, and remains inexorable. Eventually--memory yields.--Nietzsche
OCD? Nah, I don't think analysing a relationship is OCD - unless you just can't stop. Understanding why things didn't work out certainly helps with the self-healing aspect.
There have been posts made around here saying that people get addicted to each other and that's why it is hard to let go after a break-up. Perhaps that is OCD of a form.
Either way, I'm not a Dr and even if you are, I'm sure I know more about myself than you - which, ultimately, makes me the best person to heal myself in a break up scenario.
2p, you were obviously right to break up with her, because you don't sound like you have a lot of respect for her. I'm sure she is relatively immature, and that what you were saying about her has truth - but I have to agree that you sounded condescending about her in your post:
Quote:
Part of the reason I started seeing her was that I thought maybe I could train her, being in a position of more influence and maturity, I thought this might be possible... The question is - at what price?
sounds odd and Pygmalion-ish. She is who she is; now you know that and that isn't who you want to be with. So, it's good it's over.
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Last edited by seachange; 16th December 2005 at 9:19 AM..
What is this line about running "projects"? I never said anything of the sort. Something from your own past perhaps?
No, it's from your post.
Quote:
Part of the reason I started seeing her was that I thought maybe I could train her, being in a position of more influence and maturity, I thought this might be possible...
I also saw another recent post of yours that alluded to the same type of thing.
I was pointing out that you sound condescending. Whether or not she touches you all the time or is loud all the time changes that you come off that way.
I'm not angry, your post annoyed me. Complete with the little "cool" sunglasses icon next to it. You seem really proud of yourself for dating someone below you and then getting rid of her. I think it's a litle pathetic.
Last edited by magda; 16th December 2005 at 12:27 PM..
She's totally and completely beneath me. Really - yup... She's just so low.
Quote: What is this line about running "projects"? <snip>
No, it's from your post.
Quote: Part of the reason I started seeing her was <snip>
No it isn't... I never used that word or any word like that. My intention was not to break up with her - as you suggest. If you want to call dating, getting serious, getting engaged, getting married, kids, etc - "a project", then fine because in that case I'm happy to oblige you!
"You seem really proud of yourself for dating someone below you and then getting rid of her. I think it's a litle pathetic."
I'm happy with my conduct with regards to the break up, but I totally disagree about being "proud for dating someone below me and getting rid of her". What planet are you on lady?
"Below me"? Hardly. Punching above / below a person's weight = boxing talk , that was justified as a metaphor in my statement to mean that I've been out with women both older and younger - to varying degrees, but not until now anyone this much younger.
Younger - yes. Less experienced - yes.
Did I think she would listen to me and take on board my comments? Did I think I would have influence? Did I think I would be able to help her progress through life and that she might be thankful and faithful to me for this? Yes, sure - why not? That is seriously not unreasonable to hope for in my opinion... I certainly thought my chances were better than with someone who has been through many relationships and might be more cynical.
I obviously had enough respect for her to think that it was something that might work. We only started seeing each other more seriously after dating for a few weeks. Unfortunately, the conversations I was hoping for did not come about (and I tried to instigate them).
I know what I am looking for. My perfect match is not someone I'd consider to be "below" me and I've never said that once.
If you want to call me names, or shovel more abuse my way - msg me in private. You'll find I can give as good as I'm getting.
Around here, dating someone who you are trying to "train" is often termed a "project".
Quote:
Part of the reason I started seeing her was that I thought maybe I could train her, being in a position of more influence and maturity, I thought this might be possible...
The intention behind the use of the verb "to train" can be both selfish and selfless... Someone who is willing to give much to hopefully get what he / she wants in return, doesn't come across as unreasonable in my opinion.
The use and interchangability of the terminology you've stated - I can't verify because I've not seen it used this way. However, if you're saying the word "project" may be unreservedly used whenever the word "train" is used... Then I'd have to say that's just poor use of the English language.
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Just broken up with girlfriend of 2 months.
I just broke up with someone, I'm pleased for having the guts to do it and you don't like it! I've been through several messy break up's in the past and well blow me if I haven't just had a clean one. I invested time in this relationship, I was intimate with this girl and I introduced her to my friends. I certainly gave it a shot but it didn't work out how I hoped. How is that a project? 
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