My wife and I are currently seperated for 1.5 months. I have been moved out for about 45 days, and until last Friday, we hadn't spoken in about 20 days. I am 28 and she is 26, and we have been together for 4 years and 10 months, married for just over 2 years. She is (to my knowledge) actively seeking a divorce. I am not certain of the progress of the divorce, but she has told me that she has spoken to lawyers. We have not been speaking much lately, but when we do speak, all she wants to talk about are the logistics of getting a divorce ("Do we want lawyers?", "Do you need to come by and get some stuff?")
To make a long, long story short, my wife left me because I neglected her heavily. Our communication was very poor and I was not an attentive husband. I would frequently spend all my time playing video games (I'm a computer geek) and working, while she was a stay at home wife and full time student. I would ask sometimes if I spent enough time with her and she would always placate me. I realize now I should've read between the lines and understood that if I had to ask, then I wasn't.
The week before the seperation, we started fighting pretty heavily. Then that fateful weekend, we got into a massive argument in front of other people, and we both flew off the deep end, me moreso than her. I humiliated and embarrassed her in front of friends and neighbors, and completely disrespected her. It was all the anger and pent up frustrations from the week of arguing.
That night, she never came home. The next day, she came home, packed a bag and said we needed to seperate and probably divorce. I have been torn apart since. She tells me now that she's always been unhappy because I didn't spend enough time with her, and that we can't be together because she can't trust me to change and that I have issues that can't be solved when we're together. She also claims that she was an 'enabler' in these behaviors.
The day she left I started therapy, once a week, but she will not come. I know she is angry, deeply hurt, and probably feeling betrayed and disrespected. I've also given up and gotten rid of all computers except my work laptop. I no longer want to live that lifestyle now knowing that it was causing such emotional distress in our relationship. I have been reading any and all relationship help books and learned a lot about the mistakes that both she and I made. I've done Dr. Phil's Relationshipp Rescue and Gary Smalley's various books as well as several others. I see so many ways to improve our relationship, and I truly believe that if she can just open up once more I can be the man she needs me to be. The man I want to be.
I spoke to her for the first time in awhile last Friday. She said she wants to get together but really only to talk about divorce issues. I am torn apart. I believe she still loves me, but hasn't forgiven me. I don't know what to do. Generally I would try to give her as much space as she needs, but now I wonder if I've given her too much. I feel that time is running out because she is in the process of talking to lawyers and possibly filing, but at the same time I don't want to pressure her with constant advances. All the books say to work on my core, which I have, and to show love and affection to her as I want it to be. So I want to talk to her and tell her I love her, and write her letters and cards, and make her gifts. But I am terrified that by doing all this that I will make it worse. I truly believe that she just hasn't dealt with it and has pushed it aside. She goes out all the time with her friends and doesn't wear her ring and calls herself divorced.
My heart is torn out and destroyed. I am losing hope and faith. I believe this woman loves me and if she can just forgive me a little bit I can make amends and show her that I can support and love her in the manner that she needs, but I do not know how to open her up. I can't think of much else right now, so I will write more after responses. Thank you.
I'm really sorry to hear about your situation. I don't have expertise with marriage. But I'm gonna share my thoughts from my own relationship experience to give you something to go along with until a real expert comes along.
From what you say, you're in the right frame of mind to make this work. A good dose of repentance and humility goes a long way.
I don't think chasing her is going to do any good though. If you lose your dog or your cat, chasing is the worst thing you can do. You have to entice them back. And part of this is looking safe and attractive.
And abusive men always swear they'll do better. Wise women are wary of big promises.
So don't chase. Instead, let her do the contacting.
And don't make extravagent promises or start saying what you'll do. You could ask her what it would take to put this back together. But do this in a way that is businesslike. Not "desperate and I'll promise anything now", because it reduces the credibility of you delivering.
In the meantime, continue to work on your issues. Given time and space, she will cool down. And become curious.
__________________
That is not me in the photo. Nor is it my ass
...I would ask sometimes if I spent enough time with her and she would always placate me. I realize now I should've read between the lines...
If I understand this correctly, you were trying to be attentive, or at least aware that she may have concerns that you and she weren't spending enough time together. But when you asked her, she either said something like, "Oh, everything's fine" or "Yes, I'm OK," which, in wimmenspeak, means "I'm really pissed off and you have to guess why."
Now, in anticipation of the flaming, yes you probably should have been more attentive. After all, why diddle about on the computer when you've got a warm, loving partner waiting for you with open arms (and other appendages, hopefully )?
In short, from where I sit you're both at fault; you, for not spending quality time with her, and she because she essentially lied about her needs.
But it is not too late.
IMHO, ReluctantRomeo is right on the money. Making promises at this stage will probably do more harm than good. But if you make a plan - for instance, get her input (truthful input this time) on what her expectations are, and what your work and other needs are as well - then you'll be well on the way to a positive reconciliation.
As for making contact, this is where RR and I disagree. Women tend to read meanings into things that may or may not be there, so if you cease all contact she may interpret that as if you've shut her out of your life and don't want her anymore.
My suggestion would be to maintain regular contact - not daily, unless there's some sort of emergency - and when doing so work on a schedule to contact each other. It sounds very Aristotilean and not very romantic, but it's probably the only way to bypass the bogeyman of misinterpreted meanings.
There IS hope here. Lots of hope. So stay positive.
If I understand this correctly, you were trying to be attentive, or at least aware that she may have concerns that you and she weren't spending enough time together. But when you asked her, she either said something like, "Oh, everything's fine" or "Yes, I'm OK," which, in wimmenspeak, means "I'm really pissed off and you have to guess why."
Now, in anticipation of the flaming, yes you probably should have been more attentive. After all, why diddle about on the computer when you've got a warm, loving partner waiting for you with open arms (and other appendages, hopefully )?
I fully agree, I won't pretend to have been anything less than stupid for making the choices I did. Warm, loving wife vs computer games with friends... hrm, decisions, decisions...
Quote:
Originally Posted by slubberdegullion
In short, from where I sit you're both at fault; you, for not spending quality time with her, and she because she essentially lied about her needs.
But it is not too late.
IMHO, ReluctantRomeo is right on the money. Making promises at this stage will probably do more harm than good. But if you make a plan - for instance, get her input (truthful input this time) on what her expectations are, and what your work and other needs are as well - then you'll be well on the way to a positive reconciliation.
As for making contact, this is where RR and I disagree. Women tend to read meanings into things that may or may not be there, so if you cease all contact she may interpret that as if you've shut her out of your life and don't want her anymore.
My suggestion would be to maintain regular contact - not daily, unless there's some sort of emergency - and when doing so work on a schedule to contact each other. It sounds very Aristotilean and not very romantic, but it's probably the only way to bypass the bogeyman of misinterpreted meanings.
There IS hope here. Lots of hope. So stay positive.
The problem is twofold (and cyclical):
1) I'm scared to make contact for fear of making things worse (appearing desperate, etc)
2) When I do make contact she only wishes to talk about topics concerning divorce. In my opinion, she feels hurt and betrayed and thus closed off. She has convinced herself there is no other option and therefore won't speak of it.
Situation 2 leads to situation 1 which leads back to situation 2... etc etc.
Now, I'm trying to sound more confident and such when we speak, and to be more positive, but honestly, it's all for show. Inside I am desperate and hurting. I know I hurt her deeply and I want her forgiveness and for her to stay with me and work through this. I feel she is just giving up.
I'm scared to make contact for fear of making things worse (appearing desperate, etc)
When I do make contact she only wishes to talk about topics concerning divorce. In my opinion, she feels hurt and betrayed and thus closed off. She has convinced herself there is no other option and therefore won't speak of it.
OK, I think I understand.
You're making an assumption that, as you wrote, "she feels hurt and betrayed and thus closed off. She has convinced herself there is no other option." It may be true, but it may not; that's not something I could possibly know. Has she actually said that in one way or another?
I'm sensing a real communication disconnect here. First, she assumed that you knew her feelings about spending time together, and now you're assuming that you know what her reasons are for the divorce talk.
I still believe that there's lot of hope, though. But both of you need to gather up the courage to drop your guard and really communicate on a deep, almost spiritual, level.
It's hard. Very hard. But if you want to turn this around, you're going to have to take a chance and step up to the plate.
A good marriage counsellor can be an enormous assistance in this area. A good one - and not all are good, so you'll have to do some research first - will generate an aura of safety and trust in his/her office, to ensure that when strong emotions are expressed, they are treated with respect.
Are you sure she is not seeing someone else? I find it a bit strange that she is willing to give up so quickly despite your great efforts to change and to win her back.
You're making an assumption that, as you wrote, "she feels hurt and betrayed and thus closed off. She has convinced herself there is no other option." It may be true, but it may not; that's not something I could possibly know. Has she actually said that in one way or another?
I'm sensing a real communication disconnect here. First, she assumed that you knew her feelings about spending time together, and now you're assuming that you know what her reasons are for the divorce talk.
I still believe that there's lot of hope, though. But both of you need to gather up the courage to drop your guard and really communicate on a deep, almost spiritual, level.
It's hard. Very hard. But if you want to turn this around, you're going to have to take a chance and step up to the plate.
A good marriage counsellor can be an enormous assistance in this area. A good one - and not all are good, so you'll have to do some research first - will generate an aura of safety and trust in his/her office, to ensure that when strong emotions are expressed, they are treated with respect.
You can do this.
I want to do this; to date she's been unwilling (thus my opinion that she's feeling very hurt and betrayed.) About a year before we got married we broke up for about 3 months over issues that were somewhat similiar to this (situation was vastly different of course, being that we had only been together for about 2 years, and only bf/gf, plus other stuff) but she has said "this happened then and you haven't changed even now," so I interpret that to mean that she thinks that its never going to change. I'm certain she thinks that I'm just trying to get her back and that I'm not really making any "real" changes. Again, while this is supposition, I'm confident that's how she thinks of it.
I would love for her to join me in counseling. I've asked her and she won't come. She refuses to open up. I want to believe that it hasn't been enough time and I'm just being impatient, but she seems to be loving her new life without me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by loony
Are you sure she is not seeing someone else? I find it a bit strange that she is willing to give up so quickly despite your great efforts to change and to win her back.
Well, the thing is, as far as I can tell, since we barely have any contact, she can't see the changes I'm making. She's not looking and she doesn't want to look, as far as I can tell, which is very daunting and painful. I have changed immensely in the past 1.5 months. My attitude and outlook on life, and my goals, desires and needs have all been defined within myself due to all these relationship books I've been reading. But, ultimately, if she never looks, she'll never see. I believe she still loves me inside, where she won't admit it. She hasn't said she doesn't love me (though she did say near the beginning that she wasn't sure anymore). I don't know. I am just confused. The woman married me and committed to me, so obviously I was worth having at one point. I just want her to see that I can be that again.
I don't believe she's seeing anyone else. I have no evidence of this, and in my past I've had a few girls cheat on me, so she knows this is a very sensitive issue for me. She's a very moral person with high integrity. Does my evil little inner voice scream that she's in the throes of ecstacy with another man every night? Most certainly. But I need to have more faith and trust than that.
However, this does lead into another topic I had not yet mentioned:
Before my wife and I split, my best friend who is very gay needed a place to stay. We had a spare guest room (which was destined to become our nursery soon) and we let him crash with us. Both she and I had a great time with him staying with us so after about a week we extended an invitation for him to move in for 6 months or so, which he happily accepted.
I thought (stupidly again) that this would be fantastic. Living with my wife and my best friend sounds like lots of fun, right? It was... until I realized that she and I were never home alone. I felt very contained by this and it was one of the elements that led to our arguing. We weren't fighting over the fact that he moved in, but it was brought up as a contributing factor to the sense of distance and disconnect we were feeling.
Now I've moved out, he is still there. They've bonded heavily (he's now one of her best friends) and they hang out all the time. He, in my opinion (and my therapist's) fills all the spots in her life that I wasn't. He'll do chores with her, cook dinner with her, hang out and watch TV with her, go dancing and clubbing with her, etc etc.
I've become very estranged to not only my wife but my best friend too. He claims to not want to get involved but he doesn't make any effort or even acknowledge that his presence there is probably hindering the situation between my wife and I. I fight with the desire to tell him because I know if I were to tell him to leave, it would piss my wife off, thus forming a "unit"... those two against me. I definitely don't want that. My friends and I all agree that he's being completely insensitive. I don't think (I've known him a long time, since childhood, really) he's doing it intentionally, he's just lazy and to him he's just "hanging out with his roommate". Very frustrating.
I want to have hope that she'll come around. She is as stubborn as I am. Some days I feel okay, some days (like this past weekend and today) I feel like I should just give up.
Unfortunately for you, you're in the situation where you're going to have to make the changes on your own. Currently, your wife is not around for you two to work on it together.
I'll be honest with you, I don't think it's completely as hopeless as everyone suggests, although your relationship does seem to be circling the drain. Some things just take some time to pan out. I'd make some drastic changes to yourself, such as you've already done. Mix it up, do all the great things you always wanted to do. Party, travel, revisit old friends. Definitely date. You deserve some happiness, too.
But don't contact her any more. I mean it. In ANY way. If there is anything in her heart for you, her curiosity will force her to contact you at some point. Answer the phone, tell her you'll have to call her back because you were just on your way out the door about to climb K2 or something unexpected, and that you'll have to get back to her.
Live a full and exciting life without her, man! As tough as it is, it'll give you some self-respect, strength, and enrich your life.
Last edited by LoveShack.org Moderator; 18th October 2005 at 4:21 AM..
I really feel for you, its the hardest thing ive ever had to deal with in my life. 3 months ago my wife said she wasnt in love with me anymore and has been unhappy with me for too long. Like you I neglected her (computer and tv) and failed to meet her needs/expectations as a husband and a father. Its crushing and really puts things in perspective when you have to go throught something like this but it has helped me grow tremendously and things are looking much better for me today. If you havent allready read my thread, it may help you and if you still love her and want to save your marriage you should try everything possible to do so. If it doesnt work out you know you tried and you'll be a better person for it in the long run. Heres the link to my situation and good luck, I hope things work out for you. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t71713/
Please note: The suggestions and advice offered on this web site are opinions only and are not to be used in the place of professional psychological counseling or medical advice. If you or someone close to you is currently in crisis or in an emergency situation, contact your local law enforcement agency or emergency number.
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