If it hasn't happened to you yet, it will: You're interested in some sweet young (or maybe not-so-young) thing, but she's adamant that she wants you as a friend and nothing more.
If you're ok with that, and you don't have a problem watching her date other fellows, then you can stop reading because this doesn't apply to you.
But if you're interested in being more than just friends with her, listen up.
Some (not all) will put you in the friend zone as a sort of testing ground, to see if you measure up to their secret, self-imposed standards, before they agree to become intimate. Others will put you there and keep you there no matter what you do or don't do. Yet others will enjoy a sexual relationship with you, only to later change their minds and slam you into purgatory.
Regardless of which category your current squeeze falls under, you're in a no-win situation.
I'm certainly not saying that you shouldn't be friends with the opposite sex. I have a whole cluster of ladyfriends who I have no interest in sleeping with for one reason or another, and I quite enjoy their company. But if you want more than that, you'll have to find a way to either avoid the friend zone, or get out of it while you still can.
Prevention, as they say (whoever "they" are), is better than a cure, so your best bet is to avoid getting stuck in the friend zone in the first place.
Here's how you do it.
Be clear about your intentions. This does not mean, of course, that your opening line will be something like, "I'd like to bed you." (Trust me on this one, it only works very rarely.) But given that communication between people is 70% non-verbal (http://www.refresher.com/!jnbactions.html), you don't have to be so blatant with your words. Hold her hand. Give her a succulent kiss. Tease. The point is to non-verbally convey your intentions that you're interested in something more than friendship;
Shut up and listen. She'll give you lots of verbal cues as to how to proceed. Generally, women tend to talk more than men, simply because their brains are more verbally "wired." (http://www.psychologyhelp.com/gend134.htm) Now, she'll undoubtedly say the same thing over and over and over again, just in different ways. But turn off the standard tune-out mechanism for a moment and listen to the words and the tone. They'll give you a big clue as to her expectations;
Define your expectations. Though similar to being clear about your intentions, it differs significantly because it separates intentions from expectations. If your intentions are to be sexually involved with your new lady, then the expectation is that she'll reciprocate. If, however, she has put you in the friend zone and therefore has no intention to fulfill those expectations, you're stuck.
Now, if she wants you as a friend and you want to be her lover, you and she are perceiving the relationship in two mutually exclusive ways. If you're comfortable with being her therapist, driver, bank and all the rest with no expectation of sexual reward, then fine. But if not, you'd better move on.
continued...
Last edited by slubberdegullion; 8th October 2005 at 3:47 PM..
Escaping Purgatory: The Dreaded "Friend" Zone, Part 2
Part 2
But what if you're already there? What if you are pacing back and forth along the bars of the friend zone? What if you are already jammed into a slot whereby the expectations of you are high but the rewards are low, or nonexistent?
There are only three options:
Stay where you are. If you can handle being stuck there, then that's ok if you're agreeable. Not my style, personally, but to each his own;
Redefine the relationship. This is where men often screw up. Because our brains are wired differently than women's brains, when men speak we're more likely to be direct and to the point. Women, however, have a tendency to read meanings into things even if they were completely unintended. Instead of getting stuck inside that game, however, the best option is to be as clear and unequivocal as possible. "Eve," Adam says, "we've known each other for a long time. I'd like to develop this friendly relationship into an intimate one." A clear, simple statement. Now, of course, you run the risk of losing her entirely. If that's the case, then so be it. If it's a choice between being stuck in the friend zone and forever frustrated, or walking out entirely, show me the door;
Simply move on. "Eve," says Adam, "since you want to keep me as a friend but I want something more, I don't see how we can continue to be with each other. It's too hard on me." Again, a truthful, direct statement is probably the best policy. If she truly respects you as a friend, then she should understand that you have needs and desires, and further frustration between the two of you will only cause more problems. But leave on good terms.
I hope this helps some of you guys avoid the problems that I've had to manage. I look forward to some feedback!
Preventing the friend-zone thing can be hard, but it does work. If you act like you want her, she'll know you do. If you act uninterested and "too friendly" you'll quickly get stuck, and quickly become the non-sexual friend. Friend-zoned guys are about as attractive to her as an older brother.
__________________
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned for Sega." -Brodie, Mall Rats.
awesome slubberdegullion. Just simply awesome.... what you wrote. This should be pinned by the moderators and required reading for people who wanna know if someone likes them or what they should do.
People who get stuck in the friends zone are usually those who can't walk out of the situation because they're already in it too deep. Had they walked earlier they would've been spared a lot of pain.
Funny how this post coincides with recent events...
Basically, I'm supposed to hook up with a former co-worker for Ockto"beer"fest, soon as I get around to calling her. If nothing happens the first night, at the very least a good vibe, I'm out.
I've stated repeatedly and ad nauseum on LS that men and women should not be friends. Acquaintances is OK but not friends. There are only two situations where a man should be friends with a woman and they are:
1) friends in the context of a romantic relationship
2) friends with an ex that you have had children with.
Your advice is okay if a girl is already interested in a guy, but I don't think any of that advice would do any good for a guy I wasn't interested in who was already a friend. Most of it would creep me out and make me feel uncomfortable around him, especially if he was trying to hold my hand or kiss me.
And if you're not a woman's friend yet, but she says she only wants to be friends, there's nothing you can do but tell her you don't want to be just friends, then get out immediately if she still wants just friends. Anything else will get you nowhere.
I think the best chance a guy has at moving out of the "friend zone" once he's already in is to treat the woman just like his guy friends (well, not just like them). By that, I mean
-not going out of his way to do things for her
-not getting all mushy around her
-not asking to redefine the relationship
-not making a move until she actually offers signals
-don't pay for her dinner, movie, etc. once she's made it clear you're just friends
He should
-act interested in her but not too interested
-treat her with respect
-date other girls
-casually flirt with her
-slip in some occassional sexual inuendo
-have a life
The only thing I can see your advice doing for a guy who's already in the dreaded "friend zone" is get him rejected sooner instead of later, which I suppose does get him out of that "friend zone".
Quote:
Originally Posted by slubberdegullion
If you're comfortable with being her therapist, driver, bank and all the rest with no expectation of sexual reward, then fine. But if not, you'd better move on.
No offense, but that's dumb. None of my friends, male or female are my therapist, driver, bank, etc. I drive my guy friends around and buy them things just as much as I do my female friends. A guy can be a girl's friend and not be her doormat. He just has to have some balls and realize that all the sucking up the world isn't going to get him to boyfriend status. After the first few times of taking a girl out, if she's not interested or gives you the friends talk (and you'd like to be friends with her), let her pay for herself. If she can't accept that, she's not worth being friends with.
I agree that if you can't accept being a friend, you should move on, but friend doesn't mean doormat.
__________________ "It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you're not."
Being friends first can give a couple a stable foundation for marriage, said Charlotte Shoup Olsen, Kansas State University Research and Extension family systems specialist.
"Building a friendship allows a couple to develop intimacy gradually. People often think of intimacy as a physical relationship, but true intimacy is much more: it’s a comfort zone that allows individuals to share personal thoughts and feelings.
You have to remember that the current methodology of finding mates based on dating and 'falling in love' is a fairly recent innovation, and, from the stats, not a tremendously successful one.
I've stated repeatedly and ad nauseum on LS that men and women should not be friends. Acquaintances is OK but not friends.
If I see a guy who has no female friends I'd be a bit concerned about this. It often means he sees women only as sexual objects at worst and at best he fails to understand them as a partner. I doubt if they can be best buddies, but friends - why not? It's good to get a male perspective once in a while. It's good to practice social interactions with someone from the other gender without the anxiety and nervousness you fear when you're in love. In my experience, the ones who refuse to be friends with women don't really score well with me. They're often too eager, too desperate, too stubborn and exude too much of this manliness that tries to force women and men into certain categories.
Quote:
There are only two situations where a man should be friends with a woman and they are:
1) friends in the context of a romantic relationship
Sometimes proving yourself to be an understanding and reliable friend over the course of time will yield better results than making an upfront approach.
I've never believed that the relationship between a guy and a girl can be purely platonic. The reasons are simple..
Case1: The girl's butt-ugly and the guy has zero attractive towards her. He wants her as just friends. But, being short in the looks department, the girl would jump at any guy who would pay her some attention. End Result >> the dude runs for the hills.
Case2: The guy's a wuss and doormat. The girl wants him around as her errands-guy and use him as her confidence booster. But being perennially clueless about how to snag a girl, his testosterone level shoots thru the roof the instant he finds a girl that would give him some game. End Result >> he professes his feelings and gets shot down.
Case3: Both the guy and the girl are average in all departments. End Result >> One of them will fall for the other and upset the status quo. If the feelings are mutual, they hook up, but the relationship moves to a romantic one.
There are, therefore, no possibilities left for a platonic relationship.
The above-mentioned cases still hold true even if one or both of them are in a committed relationship.... only difference is that they'll just keep their feelings bottled up.
Please note: The suggestions and advice offered on this web site are opinions only and are not to be used in the place of professional psychological counseling or medical advice. If you or someone close to you is currently in crisis or in an emergency situation, contact your local law enforcement agency or emergency number.
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