[JPMorgan]

There are so many different religions in the world, but few (if any) have the volume of 'dissenters' and 'interpretations' as Christianity.

It used to be a split between Catholic and Every other Christian church. But it seems like even within churches there is division. There is name-calling and people telling others they are wrong in their beliefs, etc.

Even people who belong to one Baptist church in one part of the country will demean another Baptist church in another part of the country -- yet they both call themselves Christians and both claim to belong to a Baptist church. And its not just Baptists. There are sects of Christianity that loudly proclaim tolerance for other religions, but not for anyone withing their own so-called religion who practices differently.

Shouldn't the mere fact of believing in Jesus Christ and accepting Him as one's personal savior be enough to unite Christians? Why do so many tear others apart and not practice what they themselves preach?

I'm not trying to start a war. I know there are people who call themselves Christians who think that I am wrong in my belief and in the way I worship, but I think the same of them and its not up to us anyway---isn't it up to God to decide if we are wrong? I'm just trying to figure out why some Christians think that their way of worship is the only way of worship and where they get the right to tell others that they are wrong? I mean, where --what passages in the Bible does it say "go forth and correct others who do not worship like you; or interpret the Bible like you?"

How many different sects of Christians are there? Why are some so adament about it and others not? Why do so many think that fundamental things are wrong? As the song says "the fundamental things apply as time goes by"

Just curious about your opinions.

[Chris777]

Originally posted by JPMorgan
There are so many different religions in the world, but few (if any) have the volume of 'dissenters' and 'interpretations' as Christianity.

Thanks for bringing this topic up by the way.
I am coming at this from a christian perspective, but I have been on the other side of the fence as well.
1 reason, is that many of the branches are falling away from the truth, as the bible speaks of occuring in the last days. so they splinter off into different sects, when they disagree, with a larger body, that they belong to.

another reason is outright starting new religion, under the umbrella of christianity. I recently heard that the number of different religions in the us has doubled in the past 25 years(and dont quote me on that, as I cant remember the total numbers mentioned) but they all arent completely new , but rather splinters, of various beliefs.

It used to be a split between Catholic and Every other Christian church. But it seems like even within churches there is division. There is name-calling and people telling others they are wrong in their beliefs, etc

Even people who belong to one Baptist church in one part of the country will demean another Baptist church in another part of the country -- yet they both call themselves Christians and both claim to belong to a Baptist church.

Their have always been sects, even when Jesus came Judaism, was divided between different sects.
also note that he did not embrace any of them

And its not just Baptists. There are sects of Christianity that loudly proclaim tolerance for other religions, but not for anyone withing their own so-called religion who practices differently.

Tolerance has become just as much a weapon, as so called intolerance. I tolerate the fact that people worship all sorts of idols, and behaviors, and false religions. However, I am not going to pat them on the back and endorse their behaviors. I will tell them it is wrong according to the scripture. I realize that many will continue, in whatever they are involved with (witchcraft is a good example). But I at least make the attempt, to correct them.

Shouldn't the mere fact of believing in Jesus Christ and accepting Him as one's personal savior be enough to unite Christians? Why do so many tear others apart and not practice what they themselves preach?

because We are examples to the lost, of Christ. Ghandi, was quoted as saying he would follow christianity if it were not for christians. He took behaviors, and actions of the "christians" he witnessed, and based his judgement of the entire religion, on them , rather than the scriptures, at hand. So he created yet another splinter group, of his own beliefs.

I'm not trying to start a war. I know there are people who call themselves Christians who think that I am wrong in my belief and in the way I worship, but I think the same of them and its not up to us anyway---isn't it up to God to decide if we are wrong?

we are told to rebuke each other, if we fall into sin.
but we are are also told to test things, to see if they are good and TRUE, just as you said you disagreed with them, as much as they disagreed with you, have you tested either viewpoint in light of the scripture?

I'm just trying to figure out why some Christians think that their way of worship is the only way of worship and where they get the right to tell others that they are wrong? I mean, where --what passages in the Bible does it say "go forth and correct others who do not worship like you; or interpret the Bible like you?"

the bible is not open to private interpretation. You said earlier, that you disagreed with other christians, on certain issues. Do you sit back silent, and allow them to trumpet their views, as those of all christians?
For example, I saw a news article on one of the local stations, on religious inclusiveness. Where the "christian" bowed down to a table full of all sorts of symbols, and idols, like the budda. Now of course they blasted out tolerance, as their justification. But does that make it right? Jesus said you cannot have 2 masters.
and no matter how many apparent similarities, you can find in any religion, their are always fundamental differences as well. If it really doesnt matter who or what you worship, why even be a christian at all?

How many different sects of Christians are there?

far too many, as they can't all be right, remember the warnings about getting preached new and different gospels?

Why are some so adament about it and others not? Why do so many think that fundamental things are wrong? As the song says "the fundamental things apply as time goes by"

Remember the parable of the man who built his house on the san, and the other who built his on the rock?
mercurial, changing attitudes, and beliefs, are like the sand of the beach, they appear different each morning after the tide. Whereas the rock of truth stands timeless forever. (no matter how much the sand may try to erode the truth)

Just curious about your opinions.

I say to test them, and discern the true from the false, by their fruit.

Not everything can be truth, especially when it directly contradidcts something else.

remember a little leaven makes the whole loaf puff up

[d'Arthez]

Suggesting that interpretating scripture is not open to a private interpretation, leaves the question of the differences between the hundreds, if not thousands of different translations of the Bible. Which translation is correct? And with what authority can man (who does the translation) claim that still the word of God is followed?

Different beliefs have their own translation of scripture. Which also serves to express the differences in belief - so the beliefs that come strong on being anti-homosexual reinforce that believe by the specific translation they are following of scripture. While those beliefs that are not so anti-homosexual don't even bother with the whole issue, and thus taking a more liberal attitude to it.
And if you subsequently quote scripture to prove a point, it is already colored by man's work.

What would be the true Christian belief then?

[Pocky]

Originally posted by JPMorgan
I'm just trying to figure out why some Christians think that their way of worship is the only way of worship and where they get the right to tell others that they are wrong? I mean, where --what passages in the Bible does it say "go forth and correct others who do not worship like you; or interpret the Bible like you?"

In my opinion, it is not the teachings of The Bible (or any other religious texts I'm familiar with) that causes conflict, but the teachings of man and those in positions of authority that misconstrue and manipulate religions to adhere to their own personal agendas. Just because someone is religious it doesn't automatically mean they're honest and trustworthy and as a society we often associate the term religious with morality.

There is too much power and money within the realm of religion. This influence has taken the teachings of any religion out of the hands of the people that believe it and it has placed it into the hands of people that perpetuate hatred, intolerance and greed.

[quankanne]

It used to be a split between Catholic and Every other Christian church. But it seems like even within churches there is division. There is name-calling and people telling others they are wrong in their beliefs, etc.

we were taught that their are two main branches of Christianity: Catholicism and Protestantism. And that both have their "factions" because of the human factor. Everyone thinks it's supposed to be a certain way, and that way is the "only" way. Unfortunately, most of us tend to think about the things that divide us, rather than the Jesus who unites us!

[d'Arthez]

Quank and others: what are Eastern-Orthodox Christians then?

[moimeme]

I looked it up for another poster a while ago and was astonished to learn that there are tens of thousands. Adherents.com says there are

over 4,200 religions, churches, denominations, religious bodies, faith groups, tribes, cultures, movements, ultimate concerns, etc.

Then we get to sects within denominations. It seems the World Christian Encyclopedia has tabulated

10,000 distinct religious groups, including 33,830 Christian denominations

!!!!!

I think it's fairly safe to say that not everyone agrees on what Truth is.

[moimeme]

Eastern Orthodoxy resulted from a schism in Catholicism. Orthodox churches also claim Apostolic Succession. It's a long and complicated story. Try Googling Eastern Orthodoxy and having a look at the Wikipedia entry. It's very interesting.

[quankanne]

what are Eastern-Orthodox Christians then?

according to the Catholic News Service Stylebook, Orthodox churches (those which orginated in Eastern Europe and Mediterranean region when churches separated from Rome during the 11th century schism) derive from "adherence of these churches to the teachings of the seven eucmenical councils held before the schism of 1054."

Differences: papal primacy and infallibility

However, "beliefs generally are the same" as those held by the Catholic Church (Roman Catholic or the Latin rite is what I'm guessing they're saying).

"theological artistic and prayer traditions reflect an emphasis on the Holy Spirit, on Mystery and on Christ's redemption of the whole cosmos, not just humanity."

Communion is given under both species (bread and wine) and they adhere to the seven sacraments, according to the Stylebook.

Married men can become priests; but a man who is ordained while single cannot marry after his ordination. Celibacy is required of their monks (the unmarried guys?).

Interesting note: "Only celibates are permitted to become bishops," and therefore are chosen from the ranks of monks, not the overall clergy. As in the Latin rite, women cannot be ordained.

[JPMorgan]

[quote]

Originally posted by Chris777
Thanks for bringing this topic up by the way.
I am coming at this from a christian perspective, but I have been on the other side of the fence as well.
1 reason, is that many of the branches are falling away from the truth, as the bible speaks of occuring in the last days. so they splinter off into different sects, when they disagree, with a larger body, that they belong to.

another reason is outright starting new religion, under the umbrella of christianity. I recently heard that the number of different religions in the us has doubled in the past 25 years(and dont quote me on that, as I cant remember the total numbers mentioned) but they all arent completely new , but rather splinters, of various beliefs.

I'm familiar with some of this and I have (and still do) tend to think of these new splinters as 'cults' not sects. Jim Jones comes to mind. They seem so transparent to me. You are right -- they are pointed out in the Bible as part of the last days. I wonder how long the last days will last? I think to us 'days' is much, much different than 'divine time' and things will get much worse before the end. The end may not come for generations yet.

Their have always been sects, even when Jesus came Judaism, was divided between different sects.
also note that he did not embrace any of them


Tolerance has become just as much a weapon, as so called intolerance. I tolerate the fact that people worship all sorts of idols, and behaviors, and false religions. However, I am not going to pat them on the back and endorse their behaviors. I will tell them it is wrong according to the scripture. I realize that many will continue, in whatever they are involved with (witchcraft is a good example). But I at least make the attempt, to correct them.

I can understand the witchcraft example. It's difficult to accept that there are those whose beliefs mirror my own so closely and yet a different interpretation of a few words opens a chasm so wide that communication becomes impossible. The recent thread on sexuality is a good example. So many equate a personal view as hatred and don't see it for what it is - a personal belief.

because We are examples to the lost, of Christ. Ghandi, was quoted as saying he would follow christianity if it were not for christians. He took behaviors, and actions of the "christians" he witnessed, and based his judgement of the entire religion, on them , rather than the scriptures, at hand. So he created yet another splinter group, of his own beliefs.

I've heard that comment before - about following Christians LOL! I'm not well versed on the history of Ghandi and in a way that helps me make my point. I don't know much about Ghandi - my hazy knowledge leads me to think of him as "good" "saintly" "martyr" "selfless" "robin hood-esque (helping the poor)" and if I were to follow his teachings with those thought-feelings in the back of my mind, I could come to believe that his path WAS the right path and based on Scripture. It is so easy for people to follow blindly and will full acceptance, but without real understanding. It does put more questions in my mind about the Biblical prophets and writers -- were they 'Ghandi's" of their time? Are we following what they believed God to mean and not what God actually said? (this is too long of a discussion, but its one for a Bible study)

we are told to rebuke each other, if we fall into sin.
but we are are also told to test things, to see if they are good and TRUE, just as you said you disagreed with them, as much as they disagreed with you, have you tested either viewpoint in light of the scripture?

Yes, I was taught about testing things too. Testing my own decisions and choices to make sure I make the right ones. The Bible is a guidebook against critical mistakes in judgement. It's like a chess board and we are the pieces. We have to think ahead many spaces before we make our move and look at the rules of the board and the placement of the other pieces.

the bible is not open to private interpretation. You said earlier, that you disagreed with other christians, on certain issues. Do you sit back silent, and allow them to trumpet their views, as those of all christians?
For example, I saw a news article on one of the local stations, on religious inclusiveness. Where the "christian" bowed down to a table full of all sorts of symbols, and idols, like the budda. Now of course they blasted out tolerance, as their justification. But does that make it right? Jesus said you cannot have 2 masters.

I see it more as leading by example and speaking out about my views, but not in telling someone to not believe/worship in a certain way. Perhaps I'm more passive. I will speak up if someone tells me how I believe or attempts to speak for me.

I don't know about the TV Show you mentioned. Could the Christian have bowed in acceptance of others beliefs--that they believed, and then talk about Christianity and why Christians don't worship Budda, etc.? I don't have to accept into my life the beliefs of others, or even associate with people of other beliefs, but I can tolerate and accept their existence. This may bear more thought.

and no matter how many apparent similarities, you can find in any religion, their are always fundamental differences as well. If it really doesnt matter who or what you worship, why even be a christian at all?

Yes, there are always many differences. I guess I'm not quite as stringint in my belief that Christians can't acknowledge, show respect for, or accept other beliefs without speaking out for Christianity.

far too many, as they can't all be right, remember the warnings about getting preached new and different gospels?

That's why I stick with the fundamentals.

[moimeme]

Nobody 'worships' the Buddha.

[JPMorgan]

Originally posted by d'Arthez
Suggesting that interpretating scripture is not open to a private interpretation, leaves the question of the differences between the hundreds, if not thousands of different translations of the Bible. Which translation is correct? And with what authority can man (who does the translation) claim that still the word of God is followed?

Different beliefs have their own translation of scripture. Which also serves to express the differences in belief - so the beliefs that come strong on being anti-homosexual reinforce that believe by the specific translation they are following of scripture. While those beliefs that are not so anti-homosexual don't even bother with the whole issue, and thus taking a more liberal attitude to it.
And if you subsequently quote scripture to prove a point, it is already colored by man's work.

What would be the true Christian belief then?

This reminds me of the Tower of Babel!

Yes, organized religions follow the various interpretations. I think that maybe individual intrepretaions are how God talks to each of us. He gives us our point of view and He allows us to understand Him in a unique way. We have the general principles and outline of the interpretation -- most are quite similar -- but the fundamental differences is God talking to us, and also those who are against God talking to us and influencing us to move away from God, to sin, to work against God, etc. and God tells us that those who wish to destroy us will not be easy to recognize -- we may think they are God or one of His prophets, but they will be false. Their following will grow as people are misled in small matters and in large matters. I wonder if almost all of us have falling away more than we realize simply because our society changes so much that we don't recognize the social changes as influence by those working against God?

[JPMorgan]

Originally posted by Pocky
In my opinion, it is not the teachings of The Bible (or any other religious texts I'm familiar with) that causes conflict, but the teachings of man and those in positions of authority that misconstrue and manipulate religions to adhere to their own personal agendas. Just because someone is religious it doesn't automatically mean they're honest and trustworthy and as a society we often associate the term religious with morality.

There is too much power and money within the realm of religion. This influence has taken the teachings of any religion out of the hands of the people that believe it and it has placed it into the hands of people that perpetuate hatred, intolerance and greed.

Some of my feelings are along the same lines. Man teaches & preaches and as a ministry grows the demands on the ministry grow and while some remain honest and sincere in their belief; others see an opportunity for personal profit; while others see an opportunity to turn people away from God. Those are the ones it seems with the most money and influence and ability to twist others because they stay in the forefront--on TV, in the news, etc.

Yes, I think I mentioned somewhere else about how so many people seem to equate 'Christian' with 'Good'. Jails are full of Christians! A belief doesn't guarantee against sin -- no one is sinless. Everyone makes mistakes. Just because someone recognizes that they sin does not mean they slap their foreheads and loudly exlaim "Oh, well now that I know that I'll never do it again" Most sin is repeat sin! People also make social mistakes that land them in legal trouble. It's still a psychological thing. I read an article not too long ago about employment tips and knowing your interviewer. Women who wear a small cross or crucifix (pin or necklace) are more likely to be perceived as honest and dependable and have a higher percentage of getting a job offer than those who do not. It is subtle and most probably don't even realize that a symbol is subconsciously registering.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean about placing belief into the hands of people that perpetuate hatred, intolerane, and greed. Do you mean televangilists? Jim and Tammy Faye?

[JPMorgan]

Originally posted by quankanne
It used to be a split between Catholic and Every other Christian church. But it seems like even within churches there is division. There is name-calling and people telling others they are wrong in their beliefs, etc.

we were taught that their are two main branches of Christianity: Catholicism and Protestantism. And that both have their "factions" because of the human factor. Everyone thinks it's supposed to be a certain way, and that way is the "only" way. Unfortunately, most of us tend to think about the things that divide us, rather than the Jesus who unites us!

Yes. One would hope that the love of Jesus Christ would be all we needed to unite us and guide us to search lovingly for the similarities. And yet I find myself sometimes also debating in a defensive manner the teachings of my faith that differ from others.

It kind of goes back to this:

quote:the bible is not open to private interpretation. You said earlier, that you disagreed with other christians, on certain issues. Do you sit back silent, and allow them to trumpet their views, as those of all christians?
For example, I saw a news article on one of the local stations, on religious inclusiveness. Where the "christian" bowed down to a table full of all sorts of symbols, and idols, like the budda. Now of course they blasted out tolerance, as their justification. But does that make it right? Jesus said you cannot have 2 masters.

[JPMorgan]

Post: 7 | Quote:

I looked it up for another poster a while ago and was astonished to learn that there are tens of thousands. Adherents.com says there are

quotever 4,200 religions, churches, denominations, religious bodies, faith groups, tribes, cultures, movements, ultimate concerns, etc.

Then we get to sects within denominations. It seems the World Christian Encyclopedia has tabulated
quote:10,000 distinct religious groups, including 33,830 Christian denominations

!!!!!

I think it's fairly safe to say that not everyone agrees on what Truth is.

Wow! over 33,000 Christian denominations!