Never thought it would happen after living together for 23 years with 17 years of faithful marriage. We have two kids 8 and 12. I have no strong physical proof yet but she has ALL all the classic warning signs from what I have read over the past two years.
The arguements are unbelievable and one sided. She just blows up until she gets tired and then stops. How can one person cover seven different topics in one breath during a fight? Smoke screen or high stress? Nothing gets discussed or much less resolved. Just becomes a shouting match without any purpose? Then I stop when it gets to this point She is well educated and knows the fundamentals of a discussion. I listen mostly, sometimes too much which upsets her more.
I try to find out her schedule for the week and what's going on at work or with the kids. Usually is vague about work activities. So I have to pull it out of her by asking open ended questions. Sometimes I call her at work and find out she's coming in late or has left early. Even she's off today. I call her cell phone and there's no answer which is rarely off because of work.
One day she left work at 12:30 PM on a Friday when I happened to call. Shows up to pick the kids up at the babysitter at 8:30. She said I left early around 4 and did some shopping. OK? So I asked what she bought. Never saw the stuff. Check the date when the statements came in or cash withdrawals snooped around. Nothing..... She lied to me flat out but why?
Common excuses are I Told You, I Thought I Told You or You Forgot But I Did Tell You. This is becoming phrases of the year two years in a row now.
Too many unusual and unexplained "Little Things" happen everyday. Small lies about personal stuff missing like new my watches, Gift Cards, new clothing, belts, dishes etc. So I baited her with a $100 GC from a high-end Fly Fishing store. Told her I won a contest right before she was going to work and left it with the mail. Said to her I was going to give it to my Brother for his birthday. SOB... Two minutes later I saw her snatch it off the counter as she left. She flat out denied everything! But Why? I would have given it to her if she asked?
The other day she received a small Thank You card in the mail addressed to her as MS. I handed it to her open sat down next to her. Asked her who it was from? She looked like she saw a ghost! Thank you for your gift signed by two female names separately like a H&W would do. She said she did not know who they were and the body language flew. Leaned back, head sunk into her shoulders turning side to side. Voice pitch changed... and I don't know? We sat for a few moments and I looked at her like I was waiting for a response. She starred at the letter and said I...I... don't know? No last names or return address. I never would in a 100 years expect but her reaction????
What do think? Am I crazy? Tried approaching her but flat out denies everything.
Has she been to a doctor? Maybe early menopause and seriousl hormonal imbalances?
If she wants to deny everything fine, but tell her that you are worried about her health and the health of the marriage and insist that she see a doctor for a complete physical and lab work. Talk to the doctor yourself and tell him/her that you are insisting on this because of behavorial changes and that you want to rule out a physical medical problem.
If she continues to deny and nothing is found, get thee to a counselor, or an attorney.
It's been my experience that if you're gut is telling you something is wrong, then there probably is. It sounds like you have a number of fairly solid indicators of that. If I were you I would make an effort to get something concrete.
__________________ "Weird world. Your kids?" "I figure my character has kids." "You know, there isn't a part of that sentence I don't need explained." "Well, see, when you're acting you need to think about stuff like that."
She "seems" to be cheating on you as all the signs are there. You just don't know with whom she does it, but that is all, it seems.And no, you are not crazy; if she was addressed as Ms, she could be in an affair in which she "conveniently" forgot your marriage. Also two female names? That does not make sense.
Hormonal imbalances can cause some of the signs, but not all of the signs; although if it exists, it could explain why you cannot discuss the thing properly.
Make an effort to get concrete facts, as Tanbark813 suggested.
__________________
Doubts are more cruel than the worst of truths. - Molière
The only philosophy which can be responsibly practised in face of despair is the attempt to contemplate all things as they would present themselves from the standpoint of redemption. - Adorno
If it is one common thing I have seen from ALL of the betrayed spouses/bf/gf's on this and many other boards, it's that you can and should trust your instincts in this matter.
It is obvious that something is stinky in your kitchen, maybe it is time to pony up the dough and hire professional help. Get a PI for a couple of days and get the evidence or the answers you need. Peace of mind is worth every penny.
Might be Menopause but still having her normal cycle? Her behavior has been a consistent building pattern the past two years. My Gut Feeling tells me I just got suker punched in the stomach as a wake up call. Her "Reaction" to the Thank You Note was most profound. Like she just got busted! I would had past it right by if she blew it off but she didn't. The guilt kicked in and showed. The two (without a doubt) female names leads me to think it might be a same sex affair? Since she works with a very large G&L group of people, this makes sense and something very unexpected which I'm not prepared for.
I want to know but really don't care to know details. How does a Man compete when the other person is female? And I might be able to guess who too. Reguardless whether it's Female or Male, what 's next. I want to address this with her and have solid proof without embarrassment. I don't think a MC will work well in this sitiuation unless Both people want to stay married. I'm in a No-Fault Marriage State which means Infedelity does not mean squat.
Money is very tight and will take away directly from the kids if spent.. on Lawyers. Looking for a worst case senerio (should it happen) and plan of action to reduce costs and aggravaition.
I am sorry that you are going through this. I have to agree with the general consensus here, that if your gut tells you something is wrong, it usually is. I would make more of an effort to find out. Does she go our for lunch? Can you wait outside her office at lunch time. Does she have a cell phone? Check that. When she is away for unexplained lengths of time, I would not be accepting 'I can't remember for an answer'.
Remember she might not be having a full-blown affair. The new clothes etc might be stuff she bought for herself because she wants to look nice for someone.
I think you need to play it cool if possible, and start digging.
Originally posted by NiceGuyMojo
The two (without a doubt) female names leads me to think it might be a same sex affair? Since she works with a very large G&L group of people, this makes sense and something very unexpected which I'm not prepared for.
Why would you jump to the conclusion that her involvement with these women is sexual? Has she given you any indication that just because "she works with a very large G&L group of people" that she, herself, would swing that way?
Admittedly, it sounds like there are things going on behind your back, but a 'Thank You' card could have been for an extravagant gift that you were unaware that she had purchased. It could be anything.
When your "gut" is telling you that something's just not right, there's usually a reason for it. Find out what's going on in a definative way. Get a PI if you need to.
Missing money and missing time could very well indicate that there's an OP involved....but it could also mean some other problem. Compulsive gambling, for one example, would result in missing money and missing time. Unlikely, but possible.
Originally posted by Ladyjane14
Why would you jump to the conclusion that her involvement with these women is sexual? Has she given you any indication that just because "she works with a very large G&L group of people" that she, herself, would swing that way?
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Only brought this up as a possibility, not a conclusion. What sent up red flags was how she "reacted" to the note. (Like Ooops!... I just got caught) The note was signed like a couple with the word "and". She has never given any indication she would swing that way but what I do know is people can change and be influenced by their enviourment. In her case... maybe work? She denied knowing anything about this. Not sure what it means but there is something there! I felt like I was catching my kids in the cookie jar with a mouth full of cookies and their lips shut.
Someone told me one time if you want to catch a lot of fish, go for the small ones. You will fill up your boat much quicker. Who knows, you might just get lucky and catch the big one!
I have a strong feeling when I dig deeper, I'm not going to like what I find... The emotional anger is taking a it's toll on me. Pretty much she has free rein on coming and going. I don't see her or the kids much except for a short time at night. I work a lot and so does she. (so she tells me) I check-up on her but she still has time voids in between of a few hours. She's gone most weekends with our oldest to her Sister's Ranch taking care of Our horses about two hours away. The youngest stays with her Grandmother mostly because I'm working and she doesn't want to take her. (I think because young children tell everything they see or hear) Now, even when I'm off on weekends too? This has been a slow gradual progression the past 2 years.....
I feel like I'm being set-up big time and played to her advantage. Even sounds like she is setting up the kids for a transition period too? Not sure what to do.
Originally posted by NiceGuyMojo
I have a strong feeling when I dig deeper, I'm not going to like what I find... The emotional anger is taking a it's toll on me.
You're putting yourself through unnecessary aggravation by reacting emotionally before you know what's going on. Take it easy on yourself. and don't put your cart before your horse.
Sounds like you need to ask her questions and she HAS to answer them. This is going to drive you NUTS until you find out for sure.
Why not just come right out and tell her ALL your thoughts/fears of what you think she may/may not be doing? I think if she saw how hurt you are she may talk. And I mean showing her the hurt, crying if you do that - Infront of her. She doesn't see the whole picture of the situation that is for sure!
Maybe she isn't cheating, but something definately isn't right! I can feel it just through what you are saying on here. Why hide if there is nothing to hide?
The reaction to the card is the main example...Her phsycial reaction to it and you picked up on her uncomfortableness right away and she knew you did as well! Then tried to cover it up even more.
The money thing, well that is just plain weird. And the red flags should be going up big time on that one! What is she doing and why?
How are her overall moods? Is she a happy go lucky person? Moody? Giving and loving? Career obviously seems important and family/kids come second. Seems her own happiness is doing what she wants when she wants. The kids don't appear to be a big part of her life! Don't understand that and busy is busy - Those kids should have family time.
Maybe suggest a day TOGETHER at the Ranch with the horses? There really is NO reason why that can't happen. Try it and see what happens. You get an odd reaction, CALL her on it.
NiceGuy.. You are being way too nice to her. You are not being 'controlling' by insisting that you go with her this weekend to visit the horses. Don't tell her until Sat. morning. Tell her you are going with her, don't give her the option to deny you.
If things get out of hand that's where you need to confront her. You two are having major communication issues here. Although there are signs there is no "proof" yet. When you talk to her about this be strict, don't roll over and piddle but don't also be accusatory, otherwise she'll just get defensive and clam up.
You said this has been going on for two years now? I would highly suggest both of you seeing a MC.
I know this hurts you alot, having your gut instinct telling you something is wrong but once you find out either way, you will feel better that this things gnawing at you will stop and you can then move on.
You should ask her point blank and see how she reacts. You've been together for a long time and your gut says something is wrong, if she reacts oddly or is lying I'm sure you will pick up on it. If you can't get anything out of her and still feel she's up to something then you should find out even if it means snooping behind her back. Obviously something is wrong and if she is unwilling to share it then you have to do whatever you need to do to find out what it is.
Originally posted by TruthHurts
You should ask her point blank and see how she reacts. You've been together for a long time and your gut says something is wrong, if she reacts oddly or is lying I'm sure you will pick up on it. If you can't get anything out of her and still feel she's up to something then you should find out even if it means snooping behind her back. Obviously something is wrong and if she is unwilling to share it then you have to do whatever you need to do to find out what it is.
As a matter of fact.... I have many times! She clams up and throws up a wall. Then comes the smoke screen where she covers 7 subjects in one breath and comes back yelling, kicking and screaming. I try several times to redirect the conversation back to the original subject which is infidelity and she tells me I'm crazy or it's all in your head. Nothing left to do when it gets to this point but stop and try again another time. Then ask myself each time afterward, if the person really loves you and is not cheating, how would they react?
So yesterday and today I found out her schedule of events at work. One is to a "Weekend Retreat" resort she just sprung on me driving 5 hours each way Next Week? First words out of my mouth were can I Go! Not because I want to but because I don't trust her. She said yes but will be in meetings Fri and Sat 2-9 leaving fri morning at 8am. Then tells me the company is only paying for Fri night NOT Sat @$250 per room? She knows our money is very tight. Hummm...... I work for a big (cheap A) company too and this doesn't sound right at all for any business trip I ever took! Meeting scheduled to end at 9 PM on Sat and not paying for an additional night??? Sounds like a BS story. Anyone have any thoughts? Her goal seems to discourage me from going without drawing suspicion after writing this. That's why she said yes! She also plans to car-pool with someone. What happens if that person stays over Sat night? If I were a betting person I would place everything I had on this one bet!
Spring Break is another for the kids in 2weeks. She is taking a week off to go camping 6 hours away in another direction as above going trail riding with one child (oldest) and the horses. Her sister and husband are also going. No... I can't go because not enough room in a full size 350 truck dual cab. Maybe I should push the issue perhaps? My youngest is going with the other sister/aunt some place else on a trip even though she likes to ride too?
I decided this morning was a good time to address issues in our marriage with a problem solving approach without the infidelity issue. Wanted to open the lines of communication and it worked to some degree. She talked about me (constructive) and I listened to her. Asked her key questions : Do you want me to go away, Do you want a divorce, Do you want me to stay, Do you love me? Took a long time to get to this point. Her answers were positive and results were good but if she is involved with someone else it has no meaning.
I go by what people Do, rather than what they Say in making rational judgment and trust my Gut Feeling, not emotional feeling.
Update; The $100 GC that I saw my wife TAKE (original Post) came up in her conversation today by her. I mentioned it before and ASKED if she had taken it because I could not find it where it was placed? Told her I spent 15 minutes looking where I put it specifically? Get this, she said the Dog might have stolen it! No Way, No How because where it was placed. I saw her take it flat out!! What the heck does that mean? Does a liar, a thief and infidelity go hand in hand? She lied to me over something Ii would have given her without any questions.
I told her this morning if there is anything you want to tell me THE TIME IS NOW! (very general and open) Nothing..... Looking for ways to expedite the process to save the marriage and possibly start over if it means this.
Thank You ALL for your replies so much during this difficult time. It's been a Hell-of a- ride so far but by no means is over.
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