hello all. before you condem let me say that i know most people see what i do as wrong. i am in love with a mm and he says he is in love with me. we have been "together" for almost 9 yrs. we were both married when we met and i recently lost my husband. he is 11 yrs older than i am and he has 2 kids. i also have children. now we see each other whenever we can. he calls and e mails and comes to see me. we truly are in love. there is no doubt about it. BUT since he has 2 children who wont be 18 for another 7 yrs he wont leave the w. and i hate it. this had caused me a great amount of pain. but the thing is if i break up with him i wouldnt date anyone else anyway. so why not stay? i really want advice from someone who understands and has been there. it sounds corny but i know he is my soulmate. we can read each others thoughts and feel each others emotions. we can have a whole conversation with just glances. and people around us dont understand a word of it but we know. any advice? what should i do?

"but the thing is if i break up with him i wouldnt date anyone else anyway"

Not ever? Not in the foreseeable 7 years that you would wait for him?

I know what you are feeling, he is THE ONE, and you believe you are THE ONE for him too.

I have been seeing a MM for 3 years, who also has 2 kids, also would not be "free" for another 10years due to their ages. There is so much good, passionate, and right about our feelings for each other and the way we are together, but its those quiet Sunday afternoons or this time of year (Christmas) that hurt and made me question his love for me, until I realised love and commitment are two VERY different things. Think about it. He is committed to his wife and family, no doubt about it. And it has been proven time and time again, that the emotional investment in a marriage and family are hard to challenge or equal.

Each time I met a man that was interested in dating me, I would hope that he would be the one to erase all feelings and hopes I had for the MM. It has taken me that long to figure out that I am the only one that can do that, my pain and doubt and emotion are not for someone else to resolve.

Which kinda takes the guesswork out of the equation, doesnt it? It basically means you have to decide whether you can be without him. Whether you will give yourself a chance to live a full life, and perhaps pursue a "normal" relationship should it materialise. Whether you respect and love yourself enough to make yourself number 1, with our without another man to prop that up.

A piece of advice posted by Arabess on LS earlier this year (are you still out there?) which I kept, as it puts things into perspective:

"It's almost impossible to walk away from the person you most love while they are still declaring you are the person THEY most love. Don't beat yourself up over that one! Unless someone has been in your position, it's easy to make a judgement call without seeing the emotional connection.

I think I found the greatest amount of strength...not by thinking he didn't love me.....but by realizing he didn't love me ENOUGH. 'Enough' indicating respect, care, being honest with his family, telling his wife about us......in short.....putting actions to his promises.

There may very well be excellent reasons why a man loves another woman, but feels compelled to stay in his marriage...even if just legally. What it is ultimately saying though is.....he doesn't love the other woman ENOUGH to make the changes.

If someone doesn't love you ENOUGH....why stay in the relationship? 50% - 75%- hell 99% isn't good enough. Either someone loves you 100% or you are wasting your time. but if a guy is living with his wife and playing 'husband'....how LAME is that? What can he possibly say in defense of himself?

This is 2004....people get divorced DAILY. If he can't face the process....then what's the point? You know by now he isn't leaving. It's a pipe dream gone to hell and back. It's just hard to beak off from someone you love.

In the back of your mind though.....just remember he doesn't love you ENOUGH to be with you. Somewhere in that realization, you'll find the strength to walk away."

"but the thing is if i break up with him i wouldnt date anyone else anyway"

Not ever? Not in the foreseeable 7 years that you would wait for him?

I know what you are feeling, he is THE ONE, and you believe you are THE ONE for him too.

I have been seeing a MM for 3 years, who also has 2 kids, also would not be "free" for another 10years due to their ages. There is so much good, passionate, and right about our feelings for each other and the way we are together, but its those quiet Sunday afternoons or this time of year (Christmas) that hurt and made me question his love for me, until I realised love and commitment are two VERY different things. Think about it. He is committed to his wife and family, no doubt about it. And it has been proven time and time again, that the emotional investment in a marriage and family are hard to challenge or equal.

Each time I met a man that was interested in dating me, I would hope that he would be the one to erase all feelings and hopes I had for the MM. It has taken me that long to figure out that I am the only one that can do that, my pain and doubt and emotion are not for someone else to resolve.

Which kinda takes the guesswork out of the equation, doesnt it? It basically means you have to decide whether you can be without him. Whether you will give yourself a chance to live a full life, and perhaps pursue a "normal" relationship should it materialise. Whether you respect and love yourself enough to make yourself number 1, with our without another man to prop that up.

A piece of advice posted by Arabess on LS earlier this year (are you still out there?) which I kept, as it puts things into perspective:

"It's almost impossible to walk away from the person you most love while they are still declaring you are the person THEY most love. Don't beat yourself up over that one! Unless someone has been in your position, it's easy to make a judgement call without seeing the emotional connection.

I think I found the greatest amount of strength...not by thinking he didn't love me.....but by realizing he didn't love me ENOUGH. 'Enough' indicating respect, care, being honest with his family, telling his wife about us......in short.....putting actions to his promises.

There may very well be excellent reasons why a man loves another woman, but feels compelled to stay in his marriage...even if just legally. What it is ultimately saying though is.....he doesn't love the other woman ENOUGH to make the changes.

If someone doesn't love you ENOUGH....why stay in the relationship? 50% - 75%- hell 99% isn't good enough. Either someone loves you 100% or you are wasting your time. but if a guy is living with his wife and playing 'husband'....how LAME is that? What can he possibly say in defense of himself?

This is 2004....people get divorced DAILY. If he can't face the process....then what's the point? You know by now he isn't leaving. It's a pipe dream gone to hell and back. It's just hard to beak off from someone you love.

In the back of your mind though.....just remember he doesn't love you ENOUGH to be with you. Somewhere in that realization, you'll find the strength to walk away."

[LucreziaBorgia]

Originally posted by tiredofbeingtheother
we have been "together" for almost 9 yrs

I expect after nine years, he's pretty happy with the arrangement that you two have and is comfortable with things just as they are. After that much time goes by, and things are still going on well between you two, I don't expect he sees the need in changing it. It sounds like he is in a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mindset in this case.

This situation will continue to stay this way for the next seven years (and longer if he decides not to leave his wife after all). If you aren't happy with that, someone needs to make a change. The person who is going to have to change here is you. It doesn't sound to me like he has any plans to change a single thing about his life over the next several years.

I can't help but wonder here if the wife knows and is just not saying anything - I would think after nine years, she'd have at least had a hunch about it.

[Debster]

Are you really willing to invest 16 years with a man in secret?
Don't you want to have a relationship where you don't have to be in hiding?
Where he will be with you on the holidays and Sunday morning?

I am, quite frankly, very surprised that you were willing to put up with being 2nd fiddle for 9 years already.

Yes, he may love you. But he's not that into you to inconvenience his life, his wife or his children. Surely, that isn't good enough for you, is it?

[Shiraz]

Originally posted by tiredofbeingtheother
hello all. before you condem let me say that i know most people see what i do as wrong. i am in love with a mm and he says he is in love with me. we have been "together" for almost 9 yrs. we were both married when we met and i recently lost my husband. he is 11 yrs older than i am and he has 2 kids. i also have children. now we see each other whenever we can. he calls and e mails and comes to see me. we truly are in love. there is no doubt about it. BUT since he has 2 children who wont be 18 for another 7 yrs he wont leave the w. and i hate it. this had caused me a great amount of pain. but the thing is if i break up with him i wouldnt date anyone else anyway. so why not stay? i really want advice from someone who understands and has been there. it sounds corny but i know he is my soulmate. we can read each others thoughts and feel each others emotions. we can have a whole conversation with just glances. and people around us dont understand a word of it but we know. any advice? what should i do?

[SoleMate]

I feel very sorry and sympathetic for all the OW out there. I can imagine what it must be like. The thing that gets me is: THERE ARE PLENTY OF MEN OUT THERE! Frankly, I'd rather have a "5" who's all mine than a "10" I have to share.

Life is short. May all the OW give themselves the gift of not settling for "manshare". Happy Holidays to all.

I have a question, why WOULD he leave? He has the best of both worlds.

thanks to all of you have replied.i may know the truth but it makes it more real to see it in writing from other people. never knew love could be so hard! makes you wonder if it's this hard for men. they seem to bounce around from one to the next fairly easy. i don't know maybe i don't respect myself to leave. maybe i am the one who feels if it aint broke dont fix it. i was married twice and both were pretty bad. being with a mm i dont have to worry about getting bored of each other or having someone at home 24 hrs a day when i just want to be alone. and as far as the wife. she has suspected on a few occassions but she always gets over it. im not really good friends with her but i do know her and have hung out with her. the whole situation makes me feel bad. but i kept telling myself if it feels this good how can it be bad?

[SummerRae]

tiredofbeingtheother, I feel for you. In fact, seeing your words and thoughts on paper is like looking in the mirror. And just what i need to read to realize that MM is NOT the ONE for me for too many reasons to list. He is NOT enough for me. I pray to the Creater above that all of us OW can learn and realize that we can make it on our own and that if we ever want true intimacy, we just have to let go when things are not honest and true.

[SummerRae]

Originally posted by StayAngry
I know what you are feeling, he is THE ONE, and you believe you are THE ONE for him too.

I have been seeing a MM for 3 years, who also has 2 kids, also would not be "free" for another 10years due to their ages. There is so much good, passionate, and right about our feelings for each other and the way we are together, but its those quiet Sunday afternoons or this time of year (Christmas) that hurt and made me question his love for me, until I realised love and commitment are two VERY different things. Think about it. He is committed to his wife and family, no doubt about it. And it has been proven time and time again, that the emotional investment in a marriage and family are hard to challenge or equal.

Each time I met a man that was interested in dating me, I would hope that he would be the one to erase all feelings and hopes I had for the MM. It has taken me that long to figure out that I am the only one that can do that, my pain and doubt and emotion are not for someone else to resolve.

Which kinda takes the guesswork out of the equation, doesnt it? It basically means you have to decide whether you can be without him. Whether you will give yourself a chance to live a full life, and perhaps pursue a "normal" relationship should it materialise. Whether you respect and love yourself enough to make yourself number 1, with our without another man to prop that up.

A piece of advice posted by Arabess on LS earlier this year (are you still out there?) which I kept, as it puts things into perspective:

"It's almost impossible to walk away from the person you most love while they are still declaring you are the person THEY most love. Don't beat yourself up over that one! Unless someone has been in your position, it's easy to make a judgement call without seeing the emotional connection.

I think I found the greatest amount of strength...not by thinking he didn't love me.....but by realizing he didn't love me ENOUGH. 'Enough' indicating respect, care, being honest with his family, telling his wife about us......in short.....putting actions to his promises.

There may very well be excellent reasons why a man loves another woman, but feels compelled to stay in his marriage...even if just legally. What it is ultimately saying though is.....he doesn't love the other woman ENOUGH to make the changes.

If someone doesn't love you ENOUGH....why stay in the relationship? 50% - 75%- hell 99% isn't good enough. Either someone loves you 100% or you are wasting your time. but if a guy is living with his wife and playing 'husband'....how LAME is that? What can he possibly say in defense of himself?

This is 2004....people get divorced DAILY. If he can't face the process....then what's the point? You know by now he isn't leaving. It's a pipe dream gone to hell and back. It's just hard to beak off from someone you love.

In the back of your mind though.....just remember he doesn't love you ENOUGH to be with you. Somewhere in that realization, you'll find the strength to walk away."

Love, Love, LOOOVE the advice StayAngry! Thanks for reposting it. I think all of us need to post the words that gave us comfort or clarified things for us when we heard them, at least to pass on the advice. Thank you again.