[alphamale]

Let's see...this dead horse has probably been beaten multiple times already but here goes:

As I get older (i'm 39) I see that many women subconciously love excitement and romance and unpredicatability in their men. Some men recongnize that and have figured out over time that to keep a woman's interest level high they cannot treat them too well or too badly. The key is to be in the middle.

Here are some more observations I have made:

- women say they want nice men but they date and sleep with jerks who treat them badly
- bad boyz have masculine traits that drive women wild
- nice boyz tend to finish last with women or if they do find women THEY get walked all over
- women tend to respect men who are men and are not spineless jellyfish

I used to be a "nice guy" when I was in my 20's but learned over time that you get walked all over and taken advantage of. So I then decided to treat women well sometimes and badly other times. This has worked well cause now I have women running after me and dating is no longer a problem.

I would just like random thoughts and feedback from both sexes and your experiences.

[kiwi29f]

I've always been more attracted to the "bad boy" & I even ended up marrying one but he treats me great. I've dated both. The "nice guy" was always boring to me, the ones I dated anyway. All they wanted to do was smother me & stay in all the time. I needed space & to have fun. I was a "wild" but not out of control. They are just more fun & have a sexy persona about them that drove me wild. The "nice guys" kinda freaked me out I guess is the best way to put it.

[GirlDown]

i also think this tends to be true, at least for most of the women i personally know.

the last guy i was with was kind, gentle, respectful of my needs and gave me everything i wanted, and never disagreed with me. I HATED IT.

the guy i am with now is all these things...but will put me in my place when i need to be. and very often, i need to be. he's not afaid to tell me i'm wrong ,or that i am being a brat or just being plain ridiculous. and even if i whine and try to get my way, he won't give in to me if he really thinks he is right.

i need a knock-down, drag-out fight every once in a while. well, maybe not literally, no one wants to be hit or anything like that, but there are times that i need to argue.

you can't argue with someone who always says "you're right, princess. anything you say, angel."

it's nice to be indulged, sure; but how can you respect someone who kisses your ass? ack, give me a guy who will stand up to me, and i will be his forever!

[gridiron]

I'm 31 and I figured this out in my early twenties too. Having talked to several female friends about this, the answers I have gotten are:

- Love and sex is stronger when it has intense emotions. The nice guy is like taking Amtrak whereas the bad boy is like a roller-coaster.
- Nice guys can be manipulative. Sure they are always nice to you, but it is just to get others to be nice back to them, and that isn't real or natural for lovers.
- There's no challenge in nice guys. Women like a challenge and want to be able to reform a bad boy.
- It's more flattering for a bad boy to like you. It is more special for a guy to treat most of the people he meets like jerks, but treats you nicely.

I still consider myself someone who is still generally positive and nice to people, but I have more confidence in myself than I used to and will not back down from any opinions I hold, and can act like a jerk sometimes. And like you, it definitely seems to be working out much better.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by gridiron
And like you, it definitely seems to be working out much better.

Yes Gridiron:
There are some men who are natuarally good with women and some men (the smart ones) who LEARN how to deal with women over time and w/ experience.

THen there are the dorky nice guys who won't ever have a clue their whole lives on even how to begin dealing with women.

[GirlDown]

actually, some nice guys aren't trying to get anything out of it, they just don't know else how to be. and sad as it is, and it's not nice to say this, but it makes them out to be a huge p*ussy. what a turn off.

my boyfriend is polite to everyone (unless they give him a reason not to, of course) but when we walk away he'll say something hilarious about them, or mean, and i think it's hysterical because he's so unassuming and it takes me off guard.

i like being surprised that way, it's fun to know that the person you are with isn't just one way.

i found out he was a black belt, and i was so turned on i wanted to jump him immediately. i also felt that way when he told me he could draw, and when he showed me his work it was...i don't know what it's called, but almost like anime women but less cartoon-ish. lots of big boobs, tiny clothes, big boots, chick with weapons, that sort of thing. the thought of him using his hands in these different ways makes me ache for him.

if it was rainbows and stick people, i would be like, what hell.

nice guys don't always finish last, but when nice turns to boring, that's the end.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by GirlDown
nice guys don't always finish last, but when nice turns to boring, that's the end.

this is what I am saying. A real man is both sensitive and tough, both nice and bad all wrapped into one package.

If a man is too much a jerk or too nice then he is at one end of the spectrum. The key is to have all qualities and be in the middle. Women tend to be like this.

[GirlDown]

Originally posted by alphamale
If a man is too much a jerk or too nice then he is at one end of the spectrum. The key is to have all qualities and be in the middle. Women tend to be like this.

right on. unfortunately, this is the perfect male, there are not enough of them out there!

well perfect for me i guess. some women do want someone they can walk all over. ugh, i can't imagine.

[NatoPMT]

I don’t agree that its bad boys as such – I don’t like being treated badly and neither should any self respecting woman.

It’s a case of the man being SLIGHTLY more dominant than me. As Girldown said, them being able to keep you under ‘control’ – I put the inverted commas there because I do NOT like being controlled or being told what to do, but I need to be aware if I do go to far that its been noted and I have lost brownie points. Even though I don’t, I need to be able to be reminded that I cant have a hissy fit or be selfish, I wouldn’t, but I like to know I can’t. I like making my bf feel good about himself and it comes more naturally if I have to because I know I would lose him if I didn’t or if he was unhappy with me.

What I find attractive is a quiet self-confidence, but well placed, in perspective self-confidence. Occasionally, vunerability in a man is endearing as long as you are already in love with them. Insecurity, controlling behaviour, selfishness, meanness of emotional spirit and a non-forgiving soul are just plain unattractive – these could be lumped with being a ‘bad-boy’. The generosity of emotions I find in my bf I had to seek out, and earn (earning his love is the key for me, he didn’t just give it – I find that weak too – that’s why I hate the love at first sight crap, its not love its lust, why dress it up as anything else??). He’s not flamboyant in his expression and I would find that too sappy too, but every couple of days he says something that really touches me – but again, if you are going to say something emotional, it has to be original and heartfelt. No teddies and tacky offerings please, that’s just sickly. For eg, Last year my mother gave me a beautiful diamond & platinum ring, it’s the most beautiful ring I have ever seen. I love looking at it sparkle, and a couple of days ago, my bf said ‘it’s the kind of ring I wish id bought you’. That meant more than if he’d given me the diamond ring. (Sort of. Ahem)

I find a man who is good at things highly attractive too, I don’t care if he’s rich or poor, but if he commands respect, if his peers seek his advice and approval, if he can paint, play guitar, write, do DIY, anything, doesn’t have to be creative.

The good vs bad boy thing doesn’t even come into it for me, I wouldn’t actively seek either, I want what i have - an individual.

BB

[zara]

I do not want someone who treats me like badly. Believe it or not i would like a simple life where someone treats me with respect, doesn't cheat on me and is man enough to handle my intelligence and independence.

However, that's not to say that i want a man to walk all over him - i love being ultra feminine and having a man take the initiative in things, i love being a giggly girl scooped up into my man's arms, but why does it always seem as though this has to go hand in hand with the guy being a jerk?

i propose that actually it's men who don't know what they want! Men say "i want someone with looks and brains" but when they get me ( modesty doesn't feature in my world, okay?!) they just can't handle it.

[kellyp1]

I am attracted to the bad boys for the more masculine reason (I like to think my man can protect me if need be) but also because the super nice guys I have met get caught up in the status quo and end up getting really lazy in the relationship and their own lives. I would love to find a super nice guy who can embrace the excitement of everyday life and the relationship but I haven't found it yet (which also explains why I am single).

I personally am really independent so if I am treated too bad, I walk.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Heh... what a hoot. I have a best buddy who spent a good deal of his life frustrated at being dumped on for being the 'nice guy'. His grandmother of all people told him that there was one truth behind getting and keeping a woman:

Treat her like sh**, and tell her that you love her.
She is guaranteed never to leave you.

Ah, were that not so true. I know plenty of ladies in that trap.

There's something wickedly sexy about bad boys - in my case the type I find most attractive: psychologically dark, slightly off the mainstream, deeply intelligent, physically strong, tall, masculine and very dominant... mmmm. No sensitive 'good boy' stuff there, and not even necessarily 'good looking'. I'm thinking something along the lines of Vincent D'Onofrio.

Great to think about, awful to actually have around in a practical sense. In my case its an age thing. I outgrew my bad boy fixation some years back. Now its a matter of fantasy fodder.

[Gala242]

Originally posted by alphamale
THen there are the dorky nice guys who won't ever have a clue their whole lives on even how to begin dealing with women.

Hey, just because you figured out the secret to getting women........doesn't mean you have to bash the rest of us.


And while were on the subject..........I totally agree with you. I've been trying to convince other people that the reason for my lack of a social life is because girls are turned off by my nice guy qualities. However everytime i go to seek advice I always get the same boring predictable answer everytime like "Just be yourself" and " Be friendly nice" and "Treat women with respect"

Well I've been myself for 24 years and I still am in the same situation........after reading this thread though i finally get support for my argument.

The only thing left to do now i guess would be to try and change my image, but how am i suppose to just change into a totally different person after being the same way for basically my entire life?.

[Merin]

There is a BIG difference between being a strong male, and being an a**hole..
Same as there is a BIG difference between being a nice guy and being a wimp..

I wouldn't want either one of the latters..

[moimeme]

What Merin said. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to equate 'nice guy' with 'spineless, mindless drip'. And men who call themselves 'nice guys' are often not so nice. Similarly, people are mixing up men who have their own minds with 'jerks'.

Well I've been myself for 24 years and I still am in the same situation........after reading this thread though i finally get support for my argument.

A few people agree. This does not a grand consensus of men make. What you need to do is be your own self. Know when to defer to others and when to stick your ground. The relationships some women described as 'ideal' here would be a major turnoff to others like me.

Zara loves "being ultra feminine and having a man take the initiative in things, i love being a giggly girl scooped up into my man's arms" . I'd have to strangle my own self if I found myself being that way and I'd sure not want a man who wants a 'giggly girl'. Blech.

Be who you are. 24 is not exactly ancient. There's plenty of time to find a woman who will appreciate the man you are. Now, if that man is so self-effacing, he always defers to others, including his lady friend (and burbles with resentment silently because of it), this is not a good thing. Know who you are and what you want and have your own opinions, but that doesn't mean becoming stubborn or boorish.

This has worked well cause now I have women running after me and dating is no longer a problem.

Uh huh. Well come back when you've tried it out and it's been successful in a long-term relationship. Women might initially like the 'charm' (ugh) of 'bad boys', but like LucreziaBorgia said, they are not really a treat to live with.