In another thread I made a comment about many churches still preaching that homosexuality is a sin and that I do not agree with others’ statements that [paraphrasing]‘if you don’t accept homosexuality then your church is wrong and you are a bigot’
I do not agree with that at all. I’m not catholic, but just for the heck of it I went to the Vatican website to see what they say about homosexuality. The Catholic Church labels homosexuality as an act of grave depravity. Hmm…. So do most Christian-based churches in America.
The Catholic Church says that homosexual acts can not be approved under any circumstance. Hmm…. So do most Christian-based churches in America.
The Catholic Church says that we must not discriminate against homosexuals. We must accept them for what they are, flawed human beings – just like the rest of us. We must treat them with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. It’s not up to us to mete out punishments or rewards based on their sexuality, including the punishment or reward of Hell or Heaven after death---that’s God’s job. Hmmm….. So do most Christian-based churches in America!
Just because someone believes that homosexuality is a sin, does not make them a bigot!! It does not mean that they act in a discriminatory manner at all! Some do, most don’t. I have never been to a church that instructed its parishioners to go forth and discriminate against homosexuals!
Here’s a link to the Vatican site – it’s pretty good. I’m going to different churches with my husband now – he’s searching for a new church – and I’m asking the clergy for their opinions and interpretations of homosexuality and what God/Jesus say to them and to heterosexuals about dealing with the people and the act. It’s been very interesting. I encourage everyone to talk to their ministers. I tell them that I’m involved in an on-line forum and one of the discussions is about homosexuality and religion and I’m doing my own research – they have all been very willing to help.
…..Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity…..
…..Under no circumstances can they be approved…..
…..The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition…..
but saying that anything is a "sin" is saying that it is "wrong" and thats being discriminatory. I'm not even going to say anything else than that though, because I am far too limited and close minded to grasp such difficult concepts, such as how a faith could make repeated statements of "wrong" and "right" and impose upon the world an image of a judgmental "God" and be seen as a positive establishment. I'll just leave this discussion to the other OLDER more open minded people to discuss. I wouldn't want to be attacked for challenging anyones beliefs or asking them to think for themselves...not two days in a row anyway.
I'm agnostic -- don't believe in God. My very basic definition of any organized religion is a set of rules governing what they believe are right and wrong.
It's who defines what as what that I find interesting. Not challenging anyone's beliefs--just looking at how different churches preach about this. I can't speak for all Christian based churches - especially on details, but the Baptist, Protestant, Church of Christ, Presbyterian, and Lutheran churches that I have attended recently are all in basic agreement with the Catholic Church.
I was just wondering what other peoples' churches are teaching.
agnostics don't NOT believe in God Hokey, just as you do not NOT believe in God, they just think that its not possible to KNOW...athiests believe there is no God most definetely. You aren't athiest.
Our beliefs are actually pretty similar...I agree that religion is an attempt at defining morality and "God"...both of these are very personal issues and both are very limited when viewed through the constraints of any religion...but ESPECIALLY Christianity. I will never be able to fathom how "people" can put their own characteristics and thoughts onto a "being" of Divinity. Talk about limited, as if the creator of all existence judges ANYTHING it creates...or would even have the capacity to do so. That is a human FLAW.
Last edited by loveregardless; 10th November 2004 at 1:48 PM.
My church is non demoniational and it doesn't really "teach anything persay" We all get togeather on Sundays and worship, sing, and have a place connect with "god" but there isn't alot of morals shoved down our throats.
We actually have 2 gay couples at our church, several unwed couples including myself, and people of all sorts of backgrounds and they are all accepted there. I love it
I don't think any person has the right to make a religious judgement on another person, I believe that only the man upstairs can
but why would "He" (again, as if Divinity would be of any species, and of all, male)"judge" us at all? JUDGMENT IS A HUMAN FLAW! But nice church nonetheless.... I must say the non denominational thing is at least a step up!
I defined agnosticism a while back on another thread. I don't believe in God--any god. Too many facts and theories discredit the diety-theory for me. I am willing to accept that I may be wrong, but it's highly doubtful that anyone will convince me of the existence of God. An athiest is not willing to accept that there are any gods. Basically the same thing that you said.
I just find it very intesting to learn about the beliefs of others -- as their churches preach them, and its interesting to have someone call a Christian a bigot or ignorant because they themselves were indoctrinated to believe that anyone who does not agree with them is an ignorant bigot! It's a manipulation that I would guess most Christian-based churches have heard before and are now countering from their own pulpits.
It is possible to have very different beliefs and yet neither person be an ignorant bigot!
Originally posted by Stone
My church is non demoniational and it doesn't really "teach anything persay" We all get togeather on Sundays and worship, sing, and have a place connect with "god" but there isn't alot of morals shoved down our throats.
We actually have 2 gay couples at our church, several unwed couples including myself, and people of all sorts of backgrounds and they are all accepted there. I love it
I don't think any person has the right to make a religious judgement on another person, I believe that only the man upstairs can
Is your church national or have any affiliations? If I were to look for a branch in my area, what name would I look for?
I went for my cousins baptismal a few months back. And this was right before the release of that Mel Gibson film..the Passion of the Christ, and the preacher told the congregation, including me sitting there, that Christians had been getting a lot of flack lately for being judgmental, but that it was their JOB AND RIGHT to be judgmental because they were conveying God's judgment. I don't know how that can be misconstrued as anything but bigotry. And it is so disgusting that anyone would use "God" as an EXCUSE to judge others. Their RIGHT to judge others...again, and I'm the close minded one!
My Church believes that homosexuality is a sin. For you LR, it's wrong. For everyone else who's not going to be subjective about every little word I type, it's against the intentions of God for man to lay with man, and woman to lay with woman.
Is it calling homosexuality wrong by saying that it's against God's intentions?
Just because someone is gay doesn't neccessarily mean we Christians are to place them in a catagory of lower stature. Folks who are gay are still God's children and loved by Him. I'm not holier, or in a better position than a gay person by any stretch of the imagination, I'm just as guilty of sin as the next guy.
This is what most people struggle with. LR is constantly going on that religion is something us men created to dictated what we should label as right or wrong, that it's out of fear for spending eternity in damnation that we should stick to these guidlines.
I'm trying to tell you......it's not that way. Or at least not the way I see my faith. To me, there is no sin greater than the next. God doesn't love me any more or less than He loves the Pope or Timothy McVey. Just because my sin is speeding, and Timothy's was mass murder, I'm not looked upon as the better saint, or cleaner soul. Sin is sin is sin. So that takes out of the equation that one must stay on the right side of the guidelines in order to find grace from God. I'm saying there isn't a single person on Earth, "Good", enough to get to heaven, nor can they say enough prayers, be a good enough person, or give enough money to cause the gates to swing open.
Now you may say that fear of not getting to heaven, or spending eternity in hell is what drove me to accept the only avenue in. NOT, I chose to accept my fate as a sinner, and to accept the fact that my sins have been paid for so that I will someday have a relationship with my maker, not because I'm afraid to burn in hell.
Homosexuality is a sin. So is going 71 in a 70 MPH zone. Neither one is worse than the other. It's sin.
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"The conscience water saw it's maker, and blushed" - Water to Wine......
LR is constantly going on that religion is something us men created to dictated what we should label as right or wrong
Well it was created to define what is right or wrong. I believe Romans Chapter 7 makes comparison between sin and the law and how if it weren't for the law Peter would not know what sin is. In this sense, the implementation of Christianity defines what is right or wrong.
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People have a hard time letting go of their suffering. Out of a fear of the unknown, they prefer suffering that is familiar. - Thich Nhat Hanh
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Reading: The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins
I was taught that sodomy period is a sin, it doesn't matter if a man takes it in the rear or a woman. it's a sin period.... I think we have all been guilty of this at one point.
Last edited by Stone; 10th November 2004 at 2:30 PM.
Reason: cant spell....duh!
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