[Josieburn]

Hello, everyone. I'm a Christian man and am putting all of what I'm about to explain in God's hands, but I need some companionship and perhaps some helpful advice to keep my spirits up.

My wife and I have been married for 5 1/2 years, together 7. We were in love, I thought, from the beginning, even though early on I had to convince her that I though it would work out. Then we got pregnant and things got very complicated. When I did ask her to marry me a couple of months later because I has decided that's what was right and I felt I loved her, she said yes but refused to get married before the baby was born. To make a long story short, we had many hard times before we were married and have continued to do so to this day (obviously). She has placed blame on me and I have placed blame on her, and we have basically treated each other like crap sometimes. But there have been many, many good periods in our lives. But there have been times she has threatened to leave before.

Then the two years from hell came around. We had been doing really, really good and got pregnant with our second child. But it was only a few months later that things got bad. First, she had to go on bed rest and was sick as a dog for three months. Then she found out her mother had had cancer, so then her mother couldn't be with us (we live 5 hours away) because she was in chemotherapy. Because of the baby and our distance and her job, she couldn't see much of her mother. Her and her mother have always been EXTREMELY close. Then, and this is something we both decided, she quit her job and went back to school. Then she had an opportunity to work at a place associated with her position - an opportunity she didn't pass up. At this point, her mother was doing better.

So, here she is going to school full time in a program she has always dreamed of doing (a 2 year program), then working part time at night. She doesn't see her kids much and she also works on call a weekend or two a month. Then her mother dies and rips here emotions to shreds.

Then her teacher gets tough on her because she misses a lot of school due to her absenses and she gets written up at work for it (which is total BS). So here she is all of last year going through hell because of her mother and reliving all holidays and such that her mother was here for the year before. Then this year her mother's mother died. It's at that point things went totally south. At first I thought it was because of all this that her emotions have been fried. But she tells me it's because she now knows that she is not in love with me anymore and probably never was - she was just young and thought she was.

Anyway, she gets out of school in a month and is planning on moving out and taking the kids once she gets a job. I don't know what to do.

I love her more than anything and more than I thought I could love someone. I've been there with her through a lot of terrible times and I certainly don't want to lose the kids. I've practically raised them by myself the past two years and am totally attached to them. It would kill me to lose them for even a few days at a time under some crappy custody.

What do I do?

Here's what I know - I know that I have not attended to her emotionally. I've read other posts and I'm one of these who have figured it out too late, but I also know that it's not entirely my fault because she never explained it to me. But if she never loved me, then maybe that is why. But there have been a lot of things she hasn't done for me either, and now, even though she says she does, she doesn't even seem to care for me.

She's been going out and drinking with her school friends and keeping a lot of secrets it seems, from me. And there seems to be another man she is at least talking to, but all other signs point to something more. For instance, she got a cell phone under her name only and I found some contraceptives that we don't even use - then she tried to make them seem like a friend gave them to her. She's still been wanting sex, but doesn't want any extra kisses and especially none on the mouth, but has asked for things in bed that she never did before (even though I've wanted them) - and she bought a vibrator (while she was with her friends supposedly). She has stopped telling me she loves me and has moved into the guest bedroom. She deletes all her internet histories and cahces on the computer in that room, and locks her door at night.

I thought she was saying she didn't love me anymore to just hurt me, but I can look into her eyes and know it's true. This is really painful on me but I'm trying not to let it show and am trying to seem happy about everything. I let her know how I feel about her, but I don't tell her I love her. I give her space as much as i can stand (even though she basically won't communicate with me at all), and don't pry.

It's getting very difficult to live with somebody who says this to you on a daily basis, especially since I'm the one taking care of the kids, the laundry, the house, the garden, the yard, the meals, the grocery shopping, the money, and doing it all with not even a thank you.

We've had several conversations but she says I'm "pushing" her most of the time. The only thing I can seem to hope for on an earthly scale is time. Does anyone think time may change her mind. And should I be letting her know how I feel about her or just back off. I've been backing off but her small signs of comforting needs like a hug or her leaning oher head on me for a minute tells me I should start giving her some feeling back - simple, not overwhelming. I don't want to neglect her and what I feel for her anymore.

Please help!

[bluechocolate]

It's difficult to know what to say really. It sounds like you've decided that she really doesn't love you and it certainly seems like that the way you've described it.

No one is going to be able to tell you if she'll change her mind. You have to find out from her if she is at all interested in trying to save your marriage. Have you two done any marriage counselling? Or has that even been suggested? It sounds to me that going through a difficult birth and losing her mother and grandmother she could use some professional guidance. These incidents combined with a change in jobs, new school course and problems with work and marriage are enough to make anyone shut down.

You should tell her how you feel and ask her if she is willing to give your marriage a chance and to go to marriage counselling. If she is definitely not interested then I think you need to start looking after yourself and get some legal advice. At the moment it sounds quite good for her. She's living in the house as a virtual stranger to you, you're looking after the kids and all the household duties while she's going to school. There is nothing very equal about that arrangement. Why does she think that you can raise the kids while you support her through school and take care of the house and then one day she'll get a job and take the kids? If she's determined to leave you then she should leave now, not when it's most convenient for her.

Sometimes fathers do win custody of their children. Get yourself a lawyer pronto. Even if divorce is against your beliefs you should at least prepare yourself and know what to expect if she decides to file for divorce.

[Josieburn]

Not getting a very good response in this thread where I have everything explained.

Thought I'd try again.

My wife says she doesn't love me anymore. Read the info on the other post and please offer any advice. Her graduation is tonight, may family will be there, and I really don't feel like acting like everything is great. I gave her a necklace she had asked for many months ago before she proclaimed her unlove for me and her reaction was very cold. This is killing me and I'm not a patient person. Please help!

[Beth]

Josieburn,
I don't know what to say. I can tell how hurt you are but I don't have the words to help you. I think you already know what you need to do, and that is to see an attorney about custody of your children, and also counseling for yourself to deal with your wifes' admission that she no longer loves you.

It sounds like perhaps she has grown away from you and sometimes that happens. It can be dealt with and it does not mean you will never be happy again. Try some counseling. Take your kids to the graduation so they can see their mom's recognition of her accomplishment. Hopefully this is a phase that your wife is going through and once she is able to get into a routine and deal with the losses and the changes, she will be able to be a wife to you again. I strongly recommend counseling for both of you.

I hope some more folks will reply to your post. If it falls behind again and you want to bring it to the top of the list, just reply to the post to bump it up. This way everyone will have all the info and you won't need to start a new thread.

[Matilda]

I'm so sorry you are going through this, your pain comes across in your post. Like the other responders, I don't really know what to say. You can't make your wife fall back in love with you. Like the others, I think you have 2 basic options:

1. Talk to your wife and ask if she is willing to go to marriage counseling. Don't beg or plead, that will definitely turn her off. Just say, that you would like the marriage to continue, at least for the children's sake.

2. Talk to a lawyer. (You may want to go ahead and do that whether you decide to try #1 or not.)

From what you have written, your wife is taking advantage of you, but there always 2 sides to every story. I do encourage you to try to keep the animosity to a minimum for the sake of the children, but I can't imagine the children are very happy in the current situation either. In any case take steps to protect yourself.

[reggio]

After reading your post, I can feel your pain.

It obvious that you are willing to try anything to salvage your marriage and that you should do. In these circumstances you first need to be strong and I know it is easier said than done but you have to try.

I strongly advise you and your wife get some counselling to deal with the your marital issues. I'm sure there are many issues to discuss, this is why it's best to get counselling in order to know what the problems are and if you can agree to work things out.

At this point you need to take the lead in your marriage for the best interests of the children. I say this because it will be very important to all your ducks in a row, should your wife decide to end the marriage. In these circumstances you will need to use your logic and put your feelings aside. Unfortunately, if divorce is the last option, it will not be pleasant.

I wish I could say more to help ease your pain, hang in there.

I'll pray for you and your family.

[Josieburn]

Well, if anyone wants an update on what happened last night during her graduation. Seemed good, but I think turned out to not be so good.

I gave her her graduation present, a necklace (nothing very expensive, just simple) that I had planned on getting her long before things went sour, and her response was lukewarm at best. All she could ask me is "how much did it cost" and that "I shouldn't have done it." Then she asked me why I did it and I told her because she deserved it and was worth it, worth more if we could afford it.

Then we went to dinner before the ceremonies and we both got a little emotional about the night all in a good way. The place we ate at had these placemats and at one point she turned one over on the corner and worte "I love you" - but she used a heart shape for "love." I wrote the same back then wrote "mean it?" with an arrow pointing to hers. She emphatically wrote YES. I was feeling good but thought about the fact that it doesn't necessarily mean "in love" with me.

So the rest of the night went well. I gave her a rose that she really appreciated - I even got a kiss - at the end of the night. She had to sleep in the same bed with me because her Dad was visiting (he knows nothing, by the way), but we just slept. Well, before that I did have to open my mouth.

I just told her that I knew we had a lot of emotions going through us tonight and that if she wanted to take back what the wrote on the placemat that I would completely understand. She got mad and told me that I was impossible and that she had told me 6000 times that she loves me but she wasn't "in" love with me. I told here that usually when somebody does what she did with a little heart drawn out, then it usually meant more than that, or at least that's how I take it. She told me that I really mean a whole lot to her but she feels the way she does and she can't explain it. I was pretty hurt after being here support for the night and thinking her little gesture was important.

Oh, to clarify, we have been to marriage counseling several times but she seems to be very closed up and, in fact, things have seemed to be worse after the sessions. And she won't talk with me to anyone else. And she refuses to talk to anyone just by herself as well.

Guess I would like to know what anyone thinks about what she did. I know several years ago I went through a period where I questioned my love for my wife and didn't want to spend any time with her. And I wasn't going through all the stuff she'd been through in the last 2 years. So I'm wondering if she's doing the same thing. I got through it, does anyone think this is the same thing but could take longer?

I love my wife so much - she's beautiful, she's sexy, she's just the right kind of smart, and she's all I want. I didn't always fell this way. Does anyone think she'll feel that way about me again - and I know your opinions don't tell what's going to happen - but I'd still like to hear them.

And I'd like to know what do I do now. Being nice and trying not to show my hurt is killing me. Plus I feel like she's taking total advantage of me - with how I do all the work in the house and take care of the kids and with the attention and emotions that I'm trying to show her in a positive way.

And, lastly, she refused to let me even kiss her on the cheek this morning and she has been telling me to have a good day, but did not today even though I told her. I didn't tell her I love her because I just felt too rejected to. I felt like she was shrinking back behind her wall this morning maybe after feeling she stepped a little too far out by doing her little scribble on the placemat.

I want to show her I love her and make her happy instead of hurting, guessing, and not knowing where this thing is going. And the real problem is that she doesn't want to discuss anything, especially about how she feels or about the marriage. And THAT is really frustrating. IT seems like she likes keeping things up in the air just to spite me.

Well, i'll stop rambling so maybe someone with hear my screams and respond. Thanks to all who take the time to write.

[bluechocolate]

You can't live your life like this. It's unfair on all of you and especially the children. They must know that there is a lot of stress in the house. She has to make up her mind one way or another about what is going to happen to your marriage and it's immature of her to keep you up in the air.

If I were you I would force her hand. Tell her you two either positively work on re-building your marriage or you get a divorce. But it can't be a threat, you have to mean it. That may not be what you wanted to hear but if she's unwilling to work at your marriage or to go to counselling, do you think you can continue living like this? And again, go speak to a lawyer, because it certainly sounds to me, especially now that she has graduated, that you could come home one day to find no wife and no kids.

[Josieburn]

Bluechocolate,

You really come through with what I really should be feeling. Maybe I'm still looking at the glass half full when I shouldn't be anymore, especially for the kids sake.

She did graduate but she had an early ceremony and she actually won't finish school until the second week of June. She doesn't have as much stress or any testing those weeks, though. So should I confront her now or at least give her that time to calm down, rethink things, and maybe give her the chance to decide whether she wants to work on our marriage? I'm afraid if I do it now, it's going to be the same old thing as the past month and I'll just be pushing her. I've read it in another post, I want to be her superman and save her from what she's about to do instead of the villian that might help push it along.

But what happened today says alot. She called me earlier and said she exchanged the necklace she got me - the necklace for her graduation - but she said she still considers it for me and really appreciates it. But then she tells me to stop being so corny and romantic. I told her that I don't know if I can because it's just how I feel and she asked me to tone it down. She says she really likes it but that it's about to drive her nuts. So, while I may be one of these "too late" guys, I think I should at least try to show her how I feel now. But I'm not sure what it means. It almost sounds like she likes what I'm doing alot and is afraid that I'll make her start feeling for me again and she won't know whether or not to go through with her plans to leave once she's totally out of school and has a job. What does anyone else think?

Plus, yes, I have already just talked to a laywer, and that person, along with many more, have said that I should go ahead and file for divorce. And, honestly, I don't think I have (and probably her, too) just because we have practially no money right now and are in a little credit card debt because of the school and her part-time status. Sometimes I feel like if I made a lot more money, we'd have a better life anyway, but I'm happy. Well, that's a whole other post that I'll save for later.

I just have this wierd feeling that I shouldn't listen, and keep being corny until she shows obvious signs that it's bothering her. I plan on leaving notes hidden in places and keep telling her how I feel about her when the opportunity arises. And one thing I've learned, is to just show her that I can be unselfish and hope she does the same. I read that in a book - about how to agree more and be selfless - and I think (if she is having any tendency to feel me at all) that it does help, to at least make things better. So good, in fact, that it's one of the reasons I'm so confused, but has really kept the home environment stable for the kids. I don't think they pick up on it at all, except for the lack of us having much affection and the separate bedrooms. But she's stillnot home enough and practically naps all day when she is.

whatcha think?

[Josieburn]

Any advise how I can steer her in the direction of talking to someone on her own or with me? She is really reluctant to do that. She thinks she needs to figure out what she wants before she talks to anyone, even though she doesn't realize she may not be able to do that on her own or it may not be the right decision and she may change it later or that therapy or talking to at least a minister may convince her that what she thinks is right (leaving) is not right or even in the ballpark about what's really wrong. Plus, she NEEDS !! to admit that she has problems, too. I've admitted to mine and trying to shake all that off to help her. Of course, she thinks it's temporary - and I'm not so sure if she doesn't change her attitude even if she wants to stay together that the hurt feelings won't festure enough that the good stuff will be temporary. So I wish she would just talk to someone, even without me, and besides her lame friends. I know you can't help someone until they want themselves to be helped, but any suggestions would be gracious. Thanks.

[Josieburn]

She just called saying she's going out tonight with her friends. I did meet some of her friends last night, but should I be suspicious. My wife was never one to go out - in fact, was a major homebody - I begged her to do things before with her friends and she refused - before she started school.


And, of course, she won't let me tag along and I ge to stay home with the kids. That's not a bad thing, but I'm starting to suffer from lack of companionship. Before I was married, I loved being by myself and was really a loner. Now I enjoy someone else's company and am not getting it.

[Josieburn]

she may be going out tonight with her "friend" Alison that I've never met. this is the person I think she's using as the cover for the real person she's probably going out with tonight. I feel bummed out. So do her kids, who really wanted to see her tonight.

[Matilda]

Okay, I feel so sorry for you, but I think you need to wake up and smell the coffee! Now, I don't know you, don't know your wife, and maybe there's more to this than what you've told us, but I think you need to stop letting this woman treat you like a door mat. I know you love her, but you need to have some respect for yourself.

<<I just have this wierd feeling that I shouldn't listen, and keep being corny until she shows obvious signs that it's bothering her. I plan on leaving notes hidden in places and keep telling her how I feel about her when the opportunity arises. And one thing I've learned, is to just show her that I can be unselfish and hope she does the same. I read that in a book - about how to agree more and be selfless - and I think (if she is having any tendency to feel me at all) that it does help, to at least make things better. So good, in fact, that it's one of the reasons I'm so confused, but has really kept the home environment stable for the kids. I don't think they pick up on it at all, except for the lack of us having much affection and the separate bedrooms. But she's stillnot home enough and practically naps all day when she is. >>

Why are you going to leave loving notes for a woman that is being cruel to you?! I agree that we need to be somewhat selfless and considerate of others, and if it's making the home life smooth for the kids, then definitely keep doing it, but you are making things way too easy for her. She's got her cake and she's eating it too. And don't fool yourself into thinking the kids don't know what's going on, because they do, and it's having an affect on them.

<<Any advise how I can steer her in the direction of talking to someone on her own or with me? >>

Yep, give her an ulitmatum. Tell her she needs to go to counseling either with or without you, and if she doesn't, she needs to move out. You have given her plenty of time to figure things out. You can tell her that she can wait to move out until she finishes school if you want to, but give her a firm time limit.

<<She just called saying she's going out tonight with her friends. I did meet some of her friends last night, but should I be suspicious. My wife was never one to go out - in fact, was a major homebody - I begged her to do things before with her friends and she refused - before she started school. >>

Again, I don't know you or your wife, but it sounds like you two were young when you married, and she was immature. Now, that she's in school, she realizes there's a whole other world out there, and she feels like she missed out since she was married and had kids. Yes, I think you should be very suspicious.

[Josieburn]

You are all right. I don't want to be treated like this anymore, but everytime I try to open my mouth to talk, she'll walk away or go into the extra bedroom (her room as she calls it now) and lock the door. I can't get a lick of reasoning from her. It's very frustrating.

I'd rather her leave now but I don't know how to force her besides deliberately upsetting her to the point of her getting out, which is what happened one day when I confronted her about the person she said she had feelings for but couldn't act upon because she's married. She blew up and started packing. Stupid me begged her to stay - then I was still in denial for sure.

Now I'm just trying to do some of the things like are mentioned on marriagbuilders.com as well as from other sources, which is to be nice and promote a positive atmosphere. But she just seems to go into more and more of a "fake" mode when I do, then it explodes into her total disrespect like it did last night. I backed down and asked her if we could talk about it tonight. She said she's talked to me as much as she can stand and said she guesses she'll have to talk to me if I back her into a corner about it again (which is not the case, I just bring it up). Does she not realize that no matter what happens, she still has to be a civil human being regarding all the joint decisions about our kids? I mean, and I may be wrong, but I really don't think she'll be able to gain sole custody with how much I've been doing for the kids the past two years.

So I need some help with a strategy for tonight.

Also, she may be going out with her friends again tonight, so I'm not sure what, if any of these, I should try if she does.
(Which I think she should be coming home and spending time with her kids - should I tell her that I think she needs to come home - even though I don't want her at home - just to be firm and make her know what the right thing to do is, at least what I think it is?)

1. I thought about seeing how her mood is when she gets home. I did leave the note in the visor. It's raining here today so I don't know if she'll see it, but she might. Does anyone think there is a chance in hell she'll apologize for hurting my feelings regarding the necklace at least?

2. I printed out many pages from <removed> and thought I could just lay it on "her" bed with a small note asking her to read it no matter what happens. It's the stuff about the love tank and the three levels of marriage. She's so concerned about what to do next, I just thought if she did read this, she could reflect on what's actually happened. She may not agree, but maybe it will stir something of a concern. What do you think?

3. My sister (the only family member to know what's going on) wants me to forget all that and she wants to talk to her. She's talked to her before but on a sterile level. She wants to gets serious with her and basically rip her a new one (well, she'll be more tactical than that, but she doesn't want to be nice). Is this a good idea?

I appreciate everyone's input. Thank you so much for the support.

[Josieburn]

I was 24 and she was 19 when we met and I just turned 25 before she got pregnant. So, yes, she was young. But from what all she's told me, she wasn't exactly a homebody in high school. She hung out, played the field, partied and drank much more than I did even in college. But, yes, she was still young. BUT, that doesn't take away from the fact that she's still married now. Am I just clenching for nothing now?