Of course, by "man" I mean human males AND FEMALES?
Covey would have us believe that typical males need "space" more than females, that "Martians" are simply culturally and biologically wired to require more "space."
But why should this be so for either men or women?
Of course, by "man" I mean human males AND FEMALES?
Darned if I know! Do you? Is this true for you?
My theory would be that maybe some men always felt 'controlled' by their mothers and so resist being 'controlled' by anybody else. This is an unsupported theory of my own - or at least one I've not checked to see if anybody has already researched.
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I expect to pass through this world but once. Any good, therefore, that I can do or any kindness that I can show to my fellow creatures, let me not defer nor neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.
Speaking from an evolutionary view, this bonding, relationship thing is relatively new. For most of his time on this earth, man was alone for the most part and acts of procreation occurred rather spontaneously. Females bonded with children long enough to get them out on their own and people didn't live very long.
That part of the brain which existed for most of this earlier time fights with the more modern part of the brain in seeking those times past, when a person lived in peace and without chaotic or other interaction with others. That's one opinion.
Another theory is most likely people just get tired of being around others, or one specific person, and prefer to be alone at times. Instead of allowing a person this space, so many people go bananas and get insecure when a partner asks to do something alone or to have some time alone. Eventually this frustration builds up and the person wanting the occasional space wants a very large chunk of space...away from the relationship.
Space is a good thing and should be part of any relationship. If one of the parties is too insecure to grant it to the other who needs it, there will be serious problems.
So the space thing is just something that many healthy humans require in order to nurture their true, inner selves without the interference of another person. Plain and simple. Both men and women are probably equal in their need for this kind of space, if they are anykind of mentally healthy specimen.
The need of space is often used as an excuse to slowly move away from somebody they'd rather have a lifetime of space away from.
I think it is also a function of different companionship needs and people develop those in childhood, I suppose. You see some couples who are joined at the hip and love it and you see others who spend little time together and they're happy, too. Trouble arises when the couple has very different companionship needs, particularly when one person takes the other's need for some alone time to be a rejection.
My wife and I were joined at the hip for 5 years. In that 5 years we have only been away from each other for maybe 10 days for work related events. She is the type that needs the closeness in the relationship. I am more of a loner type so for me to show her that i loved her i gave her no space and all closeness. And she did the same for me and now i am addicted to her. So now we are seperated because she needs space!!!
I think that even though someone says they don't need the space or time away from each other. It is still in our nature to need it eventually. if we where to do it over i think we should have given each other our space in little doses through the years rather than a giant dose every 5 years or forever. I hope this makes sense.
i wasnt married or anything but my ex gf always wanted me there...she always wanted to be spending time with each other... i had to make my schedule around hers if i wanted to do something "why cant you do it that at this time because then ill be gone anyways" was the response...
so ya like you, i got used to it and i started to depend on it and ya know when all of sudden she says im gonna go do this is that ok? that is like a rejection and its very confusing...
so now she is the one who needs space now and its like im the clingy one...
Yes it is cofusing, When some people say they need space, in the case of my wife, They feel that they need to re-establish their identity. However if they are a dependent person the only thing they are going to accomplish is to establish themselves in another relationship. Therefore defeating the the purpose it is impossible for my wife wife to be alone even though she feels the need.
When i met my wife she had nearly hit rock bottom and i helped her get her life going again in a semi normal direction. Thinking back now I think she may have fell in love with me for that reason and not because i was a companion. Now she is on my level of living she feels that she can do it on her own and she may very well be able to. Space is an excuse weak people use to justify there own inner problems, faults and insecurities. Feel free to let me know what you think. I would like to know other peoples ideas on SPACE.
Originally posted by oscaroc
Space is an excuse weak people use to justify there own inner problems, faults and insecurities.
Sorry, my friend, I have yet to meet a "strong " man from your point of view. 'Cause all people I know - me included, have faults and insecurities. Yes, handling it is different from person to person.
I have no problem with intimacy - or didn't use to have . I've had a long serious relationship -he's my ex, we lived together and at some point, the only time when we weren't together was during work hours and when using the bathrooms. Not to mention the long phone talks.
Maybe I am too a dependent person. My ex bf tought me a lot of things, we've been there for eachother always, we practically grow up together during that time. But at some point it was too much. I spent all my years from 19 to 23 with him. The only times when I tried to do different things outside my relationship - international conferences or summer schools, we almost broke up. Is not that he didn't leave me enough space to grow, it's just that we were too close.
At the end of our relationship, I was aking for some time for myself, to rediscover who I was, to just go out with my friends, experience other things with other people. But the habit was just too strong...
He never prevented me from doing any of this, he gave me all the space and the freedome I wanted. I simply wasn't able to ... How was I suppose to tell him: "look, do you terribly mind if we take some time off and we don't live together for a while? I feel like getting intouch with my inner self!". Not to mention the fact that I was in denial for a long long time - suffering, feeling that I was 23 and that there were a lot of things I didn't know about me, but not admitting it. Nothing to do with other men. We were simply way too close, I was unable to communicate about this; I was afraid not to be with him, afraid he'll want to break up withme,afraid I'll hurt him, that he'll take it like a rejection. In the end it was exactly what kiled us .
Your wife told you. She did grow and she does have faith in you, faith that you won't resent her for what she's going through, that you'll at least accept, if not understand her.
If you are married - and by married I understand the promise made to the other person to ALWAYS be there - you should give her the time and space. And not judge! People don't react the way we want to and they don't evolve the way we want to. Not even those we love most.
Don't blame her for what she feels. If she feels it, than it's real. Trust her enough to believe she's telling the truth! Love her enough to get her back when she's ready. And have a long talk about what just happened - to reestablish the space you're both comfortable with.
Thank you for your input it is very useful for me. I have given her the space she needs and i am considerate of her fellings and needs. I hope she does find whatever it may be she is looking for but on the other hand i to am starting to see things in a different light and it isn't looking good for us. She has done some things that aren't appropriate for marriage and the promises that we made. I have held up my end but she has strayed a little.
In the end Your right if it endds up working we need to talk about what just happened and get on with our lives and make sure we provide for each other what we need.
He never prevented me from doing any of this, he gave me all the space and the freedome I wanted. I simply wasn't able to ... How was I suppose to tell him: "look, do you terribly mind if we take some time off and we don't live together for a while? I feel like getting intouch with my inner self!". Not to mention the fact that I was in denial for a long long time - suffering, feeling that I was 23 and that there were a lot of things I didn't know about me, but not admitting it. Nothing to do with other men. We were simply way too close, I was unable to communicate about this; I was afraid not to be with him, afraid he'll want to break up withme,afraid I'll hurt him, that he'll take it like a rejection. In the end it was exactly what kiled us .
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I guess i don't understand what is bad about being close to someone you love. how are you ever "way to close"? To me that is why you get married is to have that closeness and companionship. I to have given my wife all the freedom she has ever asked for and i never told her she had to ask permission to do it she just has always asked. I have never been abusive in any way and i don't have any behavioral problems. My wife had assured me before we got married that she had done all the playing she wanted to do and that a family was what she was looking for. So I don't buy the whole need more space thing. I think needing more space has more to do with vulnerability in that they are overwhelmed and influenced by their enviroment, the people they associate with and that they searching for something better because they have gone as far as they can go with the person they are with, They have taken everything they have to offer from that person and want more.
Originally posted by oscaroc
I guess i don't understand what is bad about being close to someone you love. how are you ever "way to close"? To me that is why you get married is to have that closeness and companionship. I to have given my wife all the freedom she has ever asked for and i never told her she had to ask permission to do it she just has always asked. I have never been abusive in any way and i don't have any behavioral problems. My wife had assured me before we got married that she had done all the playing she wanted to do and that a family was what she was looking for.
What you say and what you do, what you actually feel, no matter how much you think you are ready or prepared, is different. I didn't chose to have my personality sucked up by him. I didn't chose to became dependent. When I started out that relationship, I had been single for almost one year, and not by lack of choice!
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So I don't buy the whole need more space thing. I think needing more space has more to do with vulnerability in that they are overwhelmed and influenced by their enviroment, the people they associate with and that they searching for something better because they have gone as far as they can go with the person they are with, They have taken everything they have to offer from that person and want more.
You sound so much like my ex imagine you are with someone so full of life and energy that shines up your day just being near that person. Now imagine you're with that person for a long period of time. You won't make the effort to pull yourself together and have your spirits high. IT happenes anyway, as a result of being with that person. So although the effect on you is the same, you don't do the work. You don't go through the process. Try and generalise this to a larger extent.
At the end, you'll have everything you need, but with no effort from yourself. And it gets to you, believe me. This is why I needed to break free from him. To do things myself. I didn't chose to do it. I have been weak. I have been submissive for not spending less time with him and more with me. By doing the easy part -which was enjoying his company, enjoying to be near him, I jepordized (ruined, since we broke up,and I have my degree of guilt) that relationship.
Do you understand how I was seeing things? It was uncomfortable to have time for myself, because there was no one to "shine up" my day. It was hard, because I was left alone with my thoughts... And I was risking "hearing the truth" from within myself. But in the end, nobody can take it.
What you don't understand is exactly the first thing you posted. You don't understand how dependency works. Do not mistake it for what I am sure you feel - the "habitude" ? - habit (poor English ) of being around the other one.
Do not think that she is searching for "someone" or "something" better. She is looking for herself. And should you prevent from taking her time off, she will leave.
After the "space" I reckon she'll be changed. Maybe she's trying not to be dazzled by you, to avoid another draw back. That's why the "change". At least try to get comfortable with her new self, instead of wanting her the way she was before. IT's very very important to put all your trust in her. I think she is doing the right thing, putting some order... your disaproval of her risks to increase her insecurity.
And: if she decides to leave, nothing you can say or can stop her. You'll know it, she'll know it and that would be the end of it! This is exactly why I was so afraid of telling my ex. Him thinking that I'm looking for a way out and the fear that he'll want to dump me if I change the relationship in any way. Don't confirm my fears,will you ?
So try not to be selfish and be there for your wife. Don't suffocate her, just ask her to comunicate if things are too difficult for you to handle.
I understand what you are saying now. you explained it well or ina way I can understand. And i dont mean to confirm your fears and make you feel bad i am just going off of my feelings and that is how i feel. And as far as me giving her space I have done so. It is her that is not giving me my space. I had to tell her that she really has to try and not contacnt me everyday about something unimportant.
I need to ask you what is it that you and maybe my wife are looking for? Independence, individuality, etc. i don't understand that part. and as far as the trust goes it is really hard at this point to trust her. she has been emailing a guy for who nows how long and she says she loves him in her e-mails and they talk about sex stuff. And a year ago she kissed her ex boyfriend and said it was my fault because i never french kiss her. I am afraid that if i have to much space, reality will push itself on me and i will really see what is going and it will be me leaving her. I m the one that has been hurt in the past. and i think her motives are different than yours. Thanks for helping me with this
Originally posted by oscaroc
. And i dont mean to confirm your fears and make you feel bad i am just going off of my feelings and that is how i feel. And as far as me giving her space I have done so. It is her that is not giving me my space. I had to tell her that she really has to try and not contacnt me everyday about something unimportant.
Not to worry. It was a silly joke, please be as harsh as you need to be, don't spare my feelings. I am dead serious about it. And yes, I know, calling for unimportant stuff used to sound just like me. It was reassurance - I've already told you about being afraid to be left alone with your own thought. Getting intouch with you actually is having a little taste of her drug - you.
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I need to ask you what is it that you and maybe my wife are looking for? Independence, individuality, etc. i don't understand that part. and as far as the trust goes it is really hard at this point to trust her.
Wish I had the answer to that one. I cannot tell, because I've left the relationshîp, so I can't know what she wants from the relationship the two of you had, how she sees herself, how she sees you, how close or independant she wants to be.
I can say that after having the scolarship here and after realising how it was without being dependent on him, I had like an allergy when first looking back. It wasn't just my relationship, back home I was the backbone for everyone: my family - they didn't leave in the same city as I did, and my relationship. Then my sister came to start her studies, so I was like there for everyone. Then my parents decided to buy an appartment - which I did all alone, sine my ex was working and not at all interested in a problem that wasn't his. Of course, that was alsothe reason he wasn't taking care of any of the administrative stuff - and I am so bad with money, I just hate the bureaucracy and stuff. My sister was is a MEd student, so during her first year she was completely off subject with life around her.
Can't even say my ex was buying the food or cooking. Or cleaning without me pushing it over and over. Did I mention I was also building a career?
No you know why when I got the scholarship, left my country and had nothing but my own business I was... well, like a kid out of controll. It was freedome, but you see, it was soooooo much more that the fact that I was away from my ex. Until coming to Paris, I can't remember taking an afternoon for myself. Not bill, not cleaning, not phonecalls from my mom saying "oh, you forgot to do that" or "why didn't you do that sooner?" or "why isn't HE helping you?"... Yes, pressure from my parents, they kinda sow what was happening. But I let it happen. It was I the guilty one.
I didn't get to see what I wanted to change from him. When we sow each other months later... I felt like he was from another planet. I can't tell you how I changed. He acted like he used to... we had nothing in common anymore. I can't tell you why. He was totally reluctant to share my new experiences, to see what happened to my, how I had changed, what did I turn into... he just wanted the old me back.
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she has been emailing a guy for who nows how long and she says she loves him in her e-mails and they talk about sex stuff. And a year ago she kissed her ex boyfriend and said it was my fault because i never french kiss her. I am afraid that if i have to much space, reality will push itself on me and i will really see what is going and it will be me leaving her. I m the one that has been hurt in the past. and i think her motives are different than yours. Thanks for helping me with this
I did play with my relationship too. After a year and a half, he was very neglegtive and I wanted to see if the grass was indeed greener on the other side. So we ended up breaking up for a couple of months, then I came back to him.
During that summer, I went abroad for some conferences, I met some guys, did kiss them. Mind you, this was after having came back to him. Why? Who knows? He doesn't know about this. But it was simply for fun , I never went beyond a kiss. Intimacy and the rest, talking about this is off topic for me. I don't know why I did it, maybe because I was already suffocated... my declaration of independence - such an idiot! IT's the same stuff like those who are very gealous. They are so crazy about not being cheated and fear so much that someone else might still the object of their attention that they end up doing it themselves - cheating and ruinning the relationship... Just a thought.
BUT: I was not married, I was with my FIRST boyfriend I was in my early 20's!!!
While I'm not for the whold "space" thing myself, I can understand why someone would just NEED A BREAK! I work full time, as does my husband. It was all fine and dandy in the beginning...he'd get home between 4 and 5, and I'd get home a little after 5:30. He had Wednesdays off alone, and I had Half of Saturdays off alone, and we shared Sunday off together.
It was good, because we had time together, and time apart.
My hours changed at work, and I ended up getting the same days off as him, but two days a week, I had to work until 7..he'd go to bed at 9, so that only left 2 hours in the evening for us together.
So where it was pretty well balanced before, now it's becoming a nightmare. I come home at 7 in the evening, so instead of my husband being alone for 30 minutes, he's now alone for 3 hours! When I get home, he wants my attention, but I just came home from an 11 hour day, and I'm not in the MOOD to give anyone attention, I just want to be alone for about 2 hours. After 2 hours, though, he's going to bed. So that's no time. If we do spend time, we end up fighting.
Also, I don't have a day off any more. I'm either at work working, or at home listening to him nag. I never have time to miss him, because I never have time to want him around when he's not there.
I NEED SPACE! I need some time alone, without him complaining about it!
I do NOT agree with moving out to get away from a spouse for a while, but I am fast learning where the idea stems from. Not having a littel time alone in a marriage, causes a lot of tension.
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. I've had a long serious relationship -he's my ex, we lived together and at some point, the only time when we weren't together was during work hours and when using the bathrooms. Not to mention the long phone talks.
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