I've been trying to make more friends in grad school and I find that other women seem a bit catty towards me. I see a lot of them (men and women) giving me looks up and down. That's sometimes a very strange feeling for me. I'm trying to widen my circle of friends and I am puzzled by how some people view me without knowing me. The people I have approached are surprised by how nice and approachable I am. They usually follow up that comment by telling me how I seem so put together. Not sure if I'm phrasing this correctly, but I try to ease their feelings of insecurity by telling them how awkward and gawky I feel at times. They don't believe me most of the time, but still they are amazed at how nice and sweet I am.

What I want to know is, am I putting some sort of vibe that makes me people think I am unapproachable? I smile all the time. I'm friendly and I'm the one who always goes up to other people to talk to them and make friends. I don't know how else to be friendlier or more approachable. A lot of these people's view points on how I am seems to be centered on how I look. I've asked my friends for opinions and they've told me that yes, I am indeed very friendly and nice and in not so many words, they describe me as exotic which makes me a bit different and stand out from other people. I'm not sure what they mean by that, but I'm not altogether sure if that's a good thing.

With men in America, I get an occasional appreciative glance or two, but they never talk to me other than an occasional hi. I'm the one who always seems to be doing the approaching and initiating the conversation. Most times, they don't seem to have anything to say to me. I get the feeling that they would never even have said hello to me unless I said hello first. In Europe, I have people come up to me all the time and tell me I'm beautiful, but after that, they too seem tongue tied around me.

Is there something wrong with me that people react to me in this way? I'm starting to feel badly about myself.

[amerikajin]

Well, I'm not able to meet you in person, so I don't know what this is worth, but if you are unusually attractive, it's possible that men find you intimidating and women see you as competition.

My guess is that some of it may just be nothing more than culture shock. It takes time to adapt to a new environment, and there is a great difference between the European cultures you're used to and American culture to which you're trying to adapt. The differences might be particularly noticeable if you're in a smaller city with less exposure to different cultures. New York City and Chapel Hill, North Carolina are in the same country, but they are worlds apart.

[monkey00]

yep you must be stunningly beatiful guest.

men mus think you're outta their league and are intimidated by your looks.

its' not your fault, some things in the world are just like this.
this not only happens to women by guys too.

but remember, if u want to seem approacheable, smile more often. smiling definitely makes you seem as an overall friendly person.

Thank you both for taking the time to reply to my post.

Amerikajin, I did not mean to imply that I am not from America. I am actually American, but have lots of friends and family in Europe. I do a lot of traveling back and forth. Other than when school is in session, I spend half my time here and half over there, so it isn't really an issue of culture shock.

Monkey, I do not know what else to do. I smile all the time. I am very nice. I am even on the shy side, but I try to overcome that because I really do like people and I like making new friends.

It just gets so frustrating sometimes. I seem to be the one putting in all the effort. I cannot help how I look. I even downplay it, but that doesn't seem to work.

It is very disheartening.

Especially last night when my friends and I were out and no one asked me to dance. I got a lot of furtive glances and smiles, but that was it.

It is very depressing. I feel like an outcast.

[midori]

Originally posted by guest
Monkey, I do not know what else to do. I smile all the time. I am very nice. I am even on the shy side, but I try to overcome that because I really do like people and I like making new friends.

It just gets so frustrating sometimes. I seem to be the one putting in all the effort. I cannot help how I look. I even downplay it, but that doesn't seem to work.

It is very disheartening.

Especially last night when my friends and I were out and no one asked me to dance. I got a lot of furtive glances and smiles, but that was it.

It is very depressing. I feel like an outcast.

I may be off-base here but let me see if I'm reading you right:

You're a shy person who would like to be approached more by friendly strangers. You try to make this happen by smiling and making it clear that you would be open to having a conversation. You do not start conversations yourself, you just try to make yourself as open to them as you can.

You are disappointed that this hasn't happened. You closely observe people to see how they're responding to your presence, see if they notice you standing there, willing them to approach you. When eyes meet, you smile in invitation, but they don't respond positively.

You've reached the conclusion that you are for some reason intimidating, and the only thing you can think of is that you are so physically attractive that men are afraid to approach you, and women are automatically jealous.

I'll present a different interpretation of the data:

1. You're in grad school. Your colleagues are likely similar to you: inclined to academic pursuits, and quite often not the most outgoing sorts. In other words, your shy strategy isn't going to be effective with them because just as you're waiting for them to make a move, they're waiting for you to do it. Because they're shy too. You smile in invitation and when they don't respond as you wish, you misinterpret shyness or disinterest for dislike.

2. I mentioned disinterest above: why should someone who doesn't know you and who is a busy graduate student (I am a grad student so i know what I'm talking about) take the time and effort to fulfil your wish to make new friends by going further than you're willing to go? So you've smiled -- have you started a conversation? No? So why should they? You have to put yourself in the other person's shoes: that woman just smiled at me. Do I know her? I don't think so. Maybe she's not actually smiling at me, maybe there's someone behind me. I'll just pretend I didn't see her, and if she is someone I know she'll come over and say something to me.

3. If you were so beautiful that others reacted strongly to your appearance, you'd know it. My best friend is a beautiful woman, so lovely in fact that a few years ago a well-known public institution in New York City, for whom she worked at the time, featured her photo in their ad campaign. Her face was on the sides of city buses and on posters and brochures for a year. She gets approached by men on a regular basis. Men who don't know her, or know anything about her. She's not seductive or provocative in any way. She's very sophisticated, stylish, and beautiful. Most of the male attention she receives is unasked for and even unwelcome.

Men in Europe -- especially southern countries like Italy or Greece -- are prone to telling women that they're beautiful. It's part of the culture, and doesn't have the significance it would have if done in the US. As I'm sure you know since you've traveled.

Mind you, I'm not suggesting that you're not as lovely as you think you are. But my own experiences sound very much like what you've described. I've been told by several people in several different contexts that I can be intimidating; including a male friend whom I first met because we were set up on a blind date (we knew we wouldn't suit as a couple but we've become friends). I'm a reasonably good-looking graduate student. I've spent many an evening at a bar or party wondering why the guy whose eyes I just met didn't come over to chat with me, even though I smiled. Intimidating has less to do with being stunning (witness my friend) and more to do with the way you carry yourself. I'm a reserved person at times, although in the last couple of years, as my confidence in myself has increased, I've become less reserved. I'm less concerned with making a good impression on people -- not that I want to offend them, but I don't feel like I must constantly be on my guard just to get them to like me.

People respond to the vibes you give off. If you're cautious, they'll be cautious. If you're eager and desperate, they'll be wary. If you're relaxed, interested in them, and not acting like chatting is a big deal, they'll be relaxed with you.

I met my current boyfriend at a Christmas party. We're both graduate students. I was having a crap week, full of rather incredible little melodramas involving ex boyfriends, would-be boyfriends, and assorted others to the point that I was fed up with the whole dating thing, and thus not particularly interested in meeting anyone. I wore a dress to a party I knew most other people would attend in jeans, because I felt like wearing a dress. I just didn't care, I was there to eat, drink, and be merry. I was having a ridiculous conversation that probably made me sound rather foolish -- but everyone was chuckling -- when the guy who's now my boyfriend sidled into the conversation. I thought he was cute and since I was in my who-the-heck-cares-anyway mode (instead of better-not-say-anything-that-would-make-me-look-stupid mode) I directed my inanity at him. And we spent the evening talking. I'm pretty sure that if I'd gone to that party in my typically reserved fashion, I would have been introduced to my boyfriend, but we wouldn't have met the next night, a deux, for drinks.

So my advice is to loosen up. If you're actually trying to "downplay" your looks, as you say, I suspect you're too focused on them, and may actually be conveying to people that you think they probably shouldn't approach you since, after all, you're gorgeous. Most people I know consider, "don't hate me because I'm beautiful" to be an ironic statement.

Midori, I do thank you for taking the time to write out a thoughtful response.

I would just like to correct a few assumptions you seem to be making. Firstly, as far as my looks are concerned, I did not come to this conclusion on my own. This was brought to my attention by my friends when I asked why I get the responses I get. Secondly, if you read my original post, you will see that I make quite a bit of effort to reach out to others in an effort to communicate with them and befriend them. The end result especially where men are concerned seems to be that they are tongue tied around me. Thirdly, you assume that just because I am shy that the most effort I've put out is a smile. I have initiated and maintained most of the conversations I engage in.

As far as unwanted attention, I have received plenty of it but did not feel the need to mention it because it is not something I desire. I want normal interactions and normal relationships not creepy perverted attention from creepy strangers which is why I am trying to reach out to other people.

Also, you suggest I loosen up, assuming that I am rigid. That is not the case at all.

I take umbrage to that statement "don't hate me because I'm beautiful." To me, that's a bit insensitive, pooh poohing the fact that maybe I might have real problems and God forbid real feelings. If you prick me, do I not bleed?

Maybe my problem seems shallow and inconsequential to you and maybe this wasn't the right place for me to solicit advice. I wasn't fishing for compliments. I wasn't looking for affirmation. I just wanted to reach out to people and make new friends. I've done everything I could think to be more approachable from smiling to telling people straight out that it would be fun to hang out with them and I would like to make plans to get together with them. What do I do if they remain unable or unwilling to communicate with me?

Do you think you could give me more constructive advice instead of the thinly veiled comments accusing me of focusing on my looks and of being rigid and shallow?

[Sundaymorning]

guest, It is just really hard to not accuse you of being shallow, which i am sure you arent. but from your post, all I can envision is a girl tossing her hair past her shoulders with an "uh" sound out of her mouth.
I dont really know why you are having this trouble. but it cant be that EVERYONE on this planet doesnt want to talk to you. I have known some stunning people in my life and none of them have had problems. You are just gonna have to pan this out on your own. things will work out.

[Fedup&givingup]

Guest,

I think Midori pretty much laid it all out for you. You don't always like what you hear, and the reason I felt compelled to go ahead and tell my story at this forum in order to GAIN for myself is because the people on here give HONEST advice.

Try to get over yourself a bit and reread what Midori is telling you...read between the lines, so to speak. She specifically illustrates and explains what to do in your situation. She's telling you to relax a bit.

I get the same vibes from other women alot, and I know why I get that...therefore, I don't have many female friends. However, if you just act like yourself without trying to actually "win" people over, just be yourself, things will fall into place. People can tell when you are relaxed, and they can tell when you are trying too hard.

[jenny]

as a side point, you are using the shylock quotation quite incorrectly, unless you delusionally imagine you have been persecuted as much as the Jews.

as to your post: look how you engage just in these posts. your talk is how the external world perceives you, how you interact in it. i kept waiting for some witty flash - you are clearly educated - but none came.

i'm pretty cute, but some of my female friends are classically beautiful. i'm not the jealous type. but i would never befriend someone boring - it's masochistic.

if i met you at a party, i'd introduce you to my best player male friend then avoid you - who wants to be near someone who is so engaged with their own image and how others percieve it? no matter what, my dear, there is always someone more beautiful than you. always. no matter how gorgeous you are, there is no cause for elephantitis of the post.

why not develop some more interests that have nothing at all to do with *you*? ask others about themselves and their insecurities/interests/hobbies/plans/conspiracy theories. why not respond to midori thoroughly, instead of simply freaking out about the fact she may not share your impression of yourself?

[sportsloving]

elephantitis

Such a great word, love it and want to steal it.

[reasontosigh]

"Don't hate me because I'm beautiful" was actually the slogan for a commercial that ran about 25-30 years ago. for some hair care line, I think.

[Fedup&givingup]

Pantene? And I think I recall Andy McDowell doing that commercial.

[midori]

Originally posted by guest
Midori, I do thank you for taking the time to write out a thoughtful response.

I would just like to correct a few assumptions you seem to be making. Firstly, as far as my looks are concerned, I did not come to this conclusion on my own. This was brought to my attention by my friends when I asked why I get the responses I get.

Friends are usually not the best source for an objective assessment of your looks.

Secondly, if you read my original post, you will see that I make quite a bit of effort to reach out to others in an effort to communicate with them and befriend them. The end result especially where men are concerned seems to be that they are tongue tied around me.

Then you're not doing a very good job, I'm afraid. And I say that as someone who still sometimes has difficulty breaking the ice herself. My beautiful friend that I mentioned before also happens to be one of the most naturally charming people I've ever known -- so people are all the more attracted to her (don't worry folks, she's got her share of flaws and more than her share of woes!).

Thirdly, you assume that just because I am shy that the most effort I've put out is a smile. I have initiated and maintained most of the conversations I engage in.

But that's not what you were complaining about, no? You were talking about the times when people don't respond to your smiles, or look away when you meet their eyes.

As far as unwanted attention, I have received plenty of it but did not feel the need to mention it because it is not something I desire. I want normal interactions and normal relationships not creepy perverted attention from creepy strangers

don't we all ... although to be honest, given that you mentioned the fact that men in Europe would come up to you to tell you how beautiful you are -- something you seemed to think was meaningful -- I had the impression that you were wondering why similar wasn't happening in the US. You ARE getting told you're beautiful by men in the US... just not the ones you want to hear it from.

Also, you suggest I loosen up, assuming that I am rigid.

Nope, didn't suggest that at all, sorry if you misread what I was getting at. To be clear, I mean that if you want to connect to people you just need to not worry so much about getting snubbed or looking foolish. If someone snubs you, they're rude! And most people aren't rude, especially in a specific social context like a party. If you do encounter rude people, it reflects badly on them, not you. So speak to whomever you like, about whatever strikes your fancy. If you're enjoying yourself chances are they will too. That's what I was saying.

I take umbrage to that statement "don't hate me because I'm beautiful." To me, that's a bit insensitive, pooh poohing the fact that maybe I might have real problems and God forbid real feelings. If you prick me, do I not bleed?

OK... now I feel I should tell you that my first inclination upon reading your posts was to say this

posted by Fedup&givingup
Try to get over yourself a bit

But I thought that was not being sufficiently sympathetic to someone who clearly hadn't figured out how to tune in to her environment.

I've done everything I could think to be more approachable from smiling to telling people straight out that it would be fun to hang out with them and I would like to make plans to get together with them. What do I do if they remain unable or unwilling to communicate with me?

In that case I would say that you're off somewhere. Have you targeted people to try to socialize with who are unlikely to want to socialize with someone with your personality? I know several very beautiful women and none of them are ostracized because of it; just the opposite, in fact. So I'm afraid you should look elsewhere for the source of your apparent unpopularity. But I don't like to categorize it as "unpopularity," or tell you that you probably have some major personality flaws that prevent people from connecting to you. Maybe you're just a bit anxious about yourself, as I was and sometimes still am. The thing to bear in mind, I've found, is that people pay far less attention to you than you think they do. If someone seems to dislike you, chances are they aren't even thinking about you -- why should they dislike you if they don't even know you? When you get down to it, even if you are stunningly beautiful, you're just not that important to people. No one is. People tend to be pretty self-absorbed in the daily scheme of things, and often their seeming dislike is a function of their own internal anxiety -- nothing you induced.

The advice I offered comes from my own experiences and insights I've gained over the years. Just so you know, my friends, even my very beautiful friend, all tell me that I'm very attractive. (And that's why they're my friends! That and the lump sums in unmarked bills I occasionally send their way). I get hit on by random men all the time: twice in one hour today -- on the street while walking and in the hardware store. Yippee.

Do you think you could give me more constructive advice instead of the thinly veiled comments accusing me of focusing on my looks and of being rigid and shallow?

This is a very reactionary, hypersensitive way to take what was indeed constructive advice. I accused you of nothing! I didn't think you were shallow, although this last post of yours makes it seem more likely that you are perhaps a bit more shallow than you first appeared. As an aside, the fact that you would lump yourself in with "beautiful people" and then misappropriate Shakespeare as you did makes you come across as a drama queen. Note I said, "come across" -- I didn't say you were a drama queen. But you seem like one at the moment.

Look, I couldn't care less what you look like or how many friends you have. You posted your query, I found it was something I could relate to, and I gave you a thoughtful response. I made no assumptions about you, and in fact I have tried to be mericful to you by not jumping to the conclusions you accused me of -- although as you can see, such conclusions were hard not to draw.

And I'll repeat: most reasonably pretty women get hit on by men on a regular basis. Most reasonably pretty women are told that they're very beautiful by their friends. Truly beautiful women of any hue or degree do not get caught up in the effect, imagined or real, that their looks have on other people. That's because they're paying attention to other people instead of themselves.

[midori]

Originally posted by guest
I've done everything I could think to be more approachable from smiling to telling people straight out that it would be fun to hang out with them and I would like to make plans to get together with them. What do I do if they remain unable or unwilling to communicate with me?

I have to say, this reminds me of this guy who consistently phones my flatmate, and has for the duration of the two years we've been in this apartment. She can't stand him -- he's universally loathed in their department -- but he's convinced that they should be friends. He's boring, judgemental, supercilious, and did I mention boring? He has the most tortured, stiff manners I have ever encountered. And he's utterly oblivious to the effect he has on other people. He thinks people are intimidated by him and/or jealous (not of his looks, I think he looks like an enormous Ewok, and I don't think even in his deluded mind he's an Adonis.) He's quite convinced that he's brilliant, though from what I understand he's merely average in the department -- and this is in an environment FULL of people who have been reinforced to believe in their own brilliance for a long time, only to arrive here and discover that -- just as there's always someone more beautiful than you -- there's almost always someone more brilliant than you).

She never takes his calls. He either leaves a message with me (I suspect he thinks I don't give them to her) or leaves a message on the machine. Yesterday he called and left a message wishing her a happy first day of spring. She has never ever returned his calls. Yet he persists, convinced that he's a great guy and that it's other people who are strangely intimidated by him...

[sportsloving]

And I'll repeat: most reasonably pretty women get hit on by men on a regular basis. Most reasonably pretty women are told that they're very beautiful by their friends. Truly beautiful women of any hue or degree do not get caught up in the effect, imagined or real, that their looks have on other people. That's because they're paying attention to other people instead of themselves

Getting hit on or being told you are beautiful does not make a day great... having someone love you because they know everything about you and like you anyways, that is like having cake for breakfast!

I have read this entire thread, and I am quite on the side Midori. The reason I didn't say anything before was because I felt I was making assumptions about your persona, based on my experiences in the past.

Guest: I had a "friend" who acted as it appears you are/do. She was really pretty, but then beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Because she thought she was so beautiful she tended to push people away. She also gave out the impression that if people were not beautiful enough, she couldn't relate to them in any manner. To this day I believe she is still one of the loneliest people I have ever met.

My advice to you? If you don't really want others to tell you how they feel or perceive a situation... don't post on a public forum.