[kkat]

This issue came up in another thread...would love input and viewpoints.

Scenerio:
Single person gets involved with a married person. The single person:
(A)has no other committed or serious relationships
(B) is direct and clear with the married person about what they are looking for (whatever that is - it obviously varies greatly) and
(C) has no relationship with the married person's spouse - e.g. they don't know them, they aren't boofing their sister's or best friend's husband, aren't "friends" with the spouse - no direct connection with the spouse

Question: Is the single person - the OM/OW - doing anything unethical? Immoral?

Curious as to how different people define the above and see things on this issue. Thanks!

[SoleMate]

Good question! We need to dig into the meaning(s) of ethics and morality. I see that the following ethical and moral principles would often or usually be violated by the single partner in an adulterous relationship (I list the 'victim' in parentheses for each case):

Tell no lies. (the victim is oneself)

Do no harm. (innocent spouse - as if anyone is innocent these days)

Do not take something (time, attention, love, money given by involved spouse) to which you are not entitled. (innocent spouse)

Do not have sex with someone not your spouse. (self)

Do not have sex with another's spouse. (self, involved spouse, innocent spouse)

Do not lead another into temptation. (involved spouse)

Encourage the maintenance of healthy family life. (both spouses)

On the other hand, as you suggest, the single person has made no vows of faithfulness to either spouse and thus cannot be accused of infidelity.

NOTE: Of course, moral and ethical principles vary. I list one possible set.

[dyermaker]

Is it unethical/immoral to fire a gun at someone, even if you don't know the person?

I think that when you enter into an extramarital affair, regardless of your marital status, you know that you are hurting the relationship between the married couple. If the oblivious one, the cheater's SO, finds out--(s)he is hurt. Even if they never do find out, the cheating causes problems in the marital relationship.

When you cheat, you are hurting someone. Both parties are equally guilty.

[brashgal]

I avoided this question in the other post as I know I come across like the moral majority and having been cheated on I am not quite as objective as someone who is using this as a mental exercise. But you've asked for opinions and I just about ALWAYS have one.

Did I qualify enough? OK, try not to take this personally BUT...

Yes, I feel it's immoral AND unethical. I felt this way somewhat before I was cheated on as I feel being married includes being faithful, if you don't want to be faithful then end the marriage. Other people do not belong in their marriage. Now I look at it from another angle - I would not want to hurt another woman the way I was hurt. Just because I don't know her, it doesn't make her any less a person with any fewer feelings than one of my friends. That's my view of it being immoral.

Unethical? Why would one want to get something at someone else's expense? It's like stealing from the wife. She is missing out on the husband's company and comfort. She is married to him, he should be giving himself to her and another woman should not be facilitating his infidelity. I wouldn't want to be an enabler in another situation (giving an alcoholic drinks, etc) - it's wrong.

Deep breath - this is just a mental exercise....

[Arabess]

OFCOURSE dating a married man is unethical and immoral.

Then again, so is driving while drinking and cheating on your taxes. However, in the case of an affair, you are playing a part in disrupting a marriage....however sexless and loveless it may be. No doubt, someone has the capacity to be greatly hurt who is NOT enjoying the sex involved.

Does it make the 'other person' a demon? I don't think so...but it doesn't make them right either.

People have affairs for various reasons. I'm not a judge and won't make some blanket statement like all of those reasons are not understandable. At the same time....if you get into one....you can pay a serious price for it.

It's a personal call.

[Curt]

Encourage the maintenance of healthy family life. (both spouses)

On the other hand, as you suggest, the single person has made no vows of faithfulness to either spouse and thus cannot be accused of infidelity.

Yes, there is certainly nothing more unethical/immoral than a third party (either willingly or unintentionally) putting asunder the vows that exist between spouses.

The only thing that I could note/emphasize here is that the single person really has nothing BUT his/her moral guidelines to hem in the action(s) they take with the married spouse in question. S/he is taking extreme advantage, but perhaps of an already bad relationship that may already be wounded beyond resuscitation. The other spouse has, by far, the greatest duty of care in the that triangular relationship, and IMHO, has much of the blame to bear for anything that might happen.

Where there's smoke, there's definitely major friction, but lighting a fire in under either partner doesn't help the situation any.

Curt

[moimeme]

I would not want to hurt another woman the way I was hurt

This is the crux of the issue for me. Nor ought a man be hurt. I never liked The English Patient; I felt bad for the perfectly decent husband that got dumped. We are not on this planet to cause pain to each other, and aiding and abetting someone in betraying a spouse is one really efficient way to cause pain to a whole lot of innocent people.

[Tony T]

Is it a sign of the times that this question has to even be entertained? People have to learn morals from an Internet forum? I'm not faulting at all the asking of the question, just the necessity of it having to be asked at all. Something like this used to be a no brainer.

[UCFKevin]

That's a hell of a great point, Tones.

[amerikajin]

It is a no-brainer, Tony.

It's one thing if a person is on their way out of a marriage and starts divorce proceedings and THEN finds someone outside of their marriage - and even then, I'd be cautious until it's sign, sealed and delivered.

[moimeme]

You're right, Tony. People have lost their moral compasses. If they ever had them.

It's also a sign of the times that people are browbeaten for being 'ethical' as though that was something only 'uncool' people did. I remember the punks in school being like that but I thought people grew up eventually. I guess people buy into popular culture when it makes heroes of the 'anti-establishment' types who violate social mores for their own gratification.

[jenny]

i think it is unethical if you have a signed agreement saying otherwise. this is empirical, it can be demonstrated.

i would not presume to speak for anyone else's systems of morality apart from my own. i would not because it would hurt my SO and i'm not in love with anyone else. i have no idea why i would need to judge anyone else's circumstances.


re: cool vs. uncool. that is hilarious! is that how it's been bolied down for digestible self-satisfaction? all we need is a crusty old dean, some cheerleaders, and mascot for slapstick humour.

cheers, moi, just let it go; it's so incredibly 'last week.'

[moimeme]

I refer, Jenny, to Thinkalot's post on LS social mores.

Dear KKat:

If you need some excuses to pursuit your married man, here is my full support:

You are very moral, as:
1. you liberated the man from his unhappy marriage and made him happy and yourself happy, so there are 2 more happy people in this world;

2. You also saved his wife from misery, you are giving her the opportunities to seek for new happiness. Since her husband is NOT in love with her anymore and she is not able to make him happy, the wife would be the selfish and immoral one if she prevented him from living a happy life with you.

3. The man who cheats on his wife is immoral, the wife who has no dignity to leave her cheating husband is immoral, the couple who stay in a unhappy marriage are immoral. And you ARE moral!

So what? is he going to live his wife because you are moral?

People in this forum have contributed great advices to you, but unfortunately, you didn't really listen. as if you did, you wouldn't have cried in his car and begged him to leave his wife for you.

In your case, being moral was not the issue. I dont think you would ever care about "moral" if you've got what you wanted. So why dont you focus on what you really need to focus! right, ask yourself, what's next? what do you really want to hear?

[brashgal]

wow Fifi, I so disagree.

I think I would have 'recovered' much faster from the break up of my marriage had my XH simply told me that he did not want to be married to me, moved out and THEN started dating someone else.

Yes, I am now free to pursue happiness but at what cost? Unfortunately I spent many an hour self-flagellating wondering why 'she' was the one he wanted more than me and it has damaged my relationship with him. I still am not at the point where I can forgive his actions. Had he just left me first I don't think I would feel this way. And since they are still together and it looks like they will be for some time, I resent her as well. Sad as I would prefer a better working relationship with her for the sake of my kids. It's going to take me awhile to get there...