D-Lish Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 I have a gf that has just been dumped- she's not beautiful, she's average- and very naive. I've been bringing her out a lot lately because she's in a bad place. She cries and laments about her ex constantly- but my male friends want to swoop in and take advantage It seems like the more she cries= the more men swoop in and try and get in there. I don't get what men see in a broken women. She was sitting with me tonight bawling her eyes out at a pub- and guys were coming on strong to her. Predatory?
Star Gazer Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 White Knight syndrome, or Predators. Hard to tell.
Citizen Erased Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Either they see weakness and they want to take advantage...or they see damsel in distress and they want to save/comfort her. Either way, I hope she told them to buzz off. Not what she needs right now.
OldOnTheInside Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) An easy lay. It's a dominance thing. So yeah, predatory. Of course, if you took her to a pub of all places, that's to be expected. It's a hornet's nest. Don't find many white knights over there. Although, maybe I've just been to some sh*tty bars. If she has any hobbies, she'd probably find less of "predators" over there. Like a cooking class or something. Although men are probably the last thing she needs right now. Edited July 14, 2011 by OldOnTheInside
carhill Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 I'm kind of an expert on broken women, but never 'swoop in' on them. They generally come to me. However, the simplest reason I can fathom wrt this 'swooping in' phenomena is, essentially, a by-product of my 'ten seconds or less' theory, which is based on a lifetime of experience. Heck, my own exW personifies this, having acquired a live-in boyfriend (he lives with her in the house she received in the divorce) before we were even divorced legally. Bing-boom-bam. I'll bet she was hooked up within a week of us officially separating. While I was here on LS getting advice about how to date as a separated man, other men didn't care about separated/shmeperated and 'swooped in' to bang the first available hole. That's how it works. Welcome to the world of men. Nice to see you.
leon88 Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 My advice is unless you are really up for her then go for it. Or else you are just like the normal guys who just want a share of her.
2sunny Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 I have a gf that has just been dumped- she's not beautiful, she's average- and very naive. I've been bringing her out a lot lately because she's in a bad place. She cries and laments about her ex constantly- but my male friends want to swoop in and take advantage It seems like the more she cries= the more men swoop in and try and get in there. I don't get what men see in a broken women. She was sitting with me tonight bawling her eyes out at a pub- and guys were coming on strong to her. Predatory? seems predatory... and then i watch strong, confident women who are equally attractive that men will not approach. they most likely are reading the energy... and see it as an "opportunity"
carhill Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Forgot to add my data point of 'why', in light of how the friend's behavior was described..... What I used to see in them was 'openness', meaning emotional transparency, unlike the emotionally closed women who apparently could fake it long enough to 'get' me. This kind of openness, if honest, is an elemental aspect of compatibility for myself; an essential compliment to my own style. Now I just see the whole mess as unhealthy and avoid all of them. Having gone through the process enough times and seeing them 'flip the switch', in a lot of ways it's poisoned the psyche of an otherwise emotionally open and caring man. I'm sorry it ended up that way. I write it off to poor socialization for the realities of relationships and waiting too long to get professional help. Perhaps I was 'naive' like the OP's friend and decades of negative experiences has hardened that perspective into a cynical soul. I hope she does better. What I've found usually happens with those 'broken' women who approach me is that they use me to get better and then, rejuvinated, move on to the next man who stirs their loins, hopefully a less abusive one. It still goes on to this day, if I would let it. I often talk to the box on the fireplace where my mother resides and lament her not teaching me better about how women really are. Those first lessons are the most crucial, setting the groundwork for elementary aspects of personality. She tried, far too late, which is likely why my exW saw her as a b!tch. I should have listened then. Oh, well...
motive2002 Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 I think Carhill is on to something. A lot of nice looking women are already spoken for. Gotta get your opportunities....
OldOnTheInside Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 seems predatory... and then i watch strong, confident women who are equally attractive that men will not approach. they most likely are reading the energy... and see it as an "opportunity" To expand on this: For any observational person, it is easy enough to detect emotional "weakness". You can see it in the eyes, in their body language, the tone of their voice...their overall demeanor. Most people really don't hide their intentions as well as they would think. Hell, even most of the sociopaths that I've spoken to, the masters of deception, usually aren't as clever as they would like to think. Basically, you can tell when something is "off". And it is easy to manipulate others, you tell them what they want to hear, and build up their trust. If your friend is as naive and vulnerable as you say, it would be easy enough to exploit that. You can't really "protect" her D. But you can help her pick up their signals. Most guys aren't really that subtle. And I'd recommend that you avoid taking her any pubs if you want to help her recovery. Hopefully she will learn from this experience.
carhill Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Suggestion: For an evening out with the friend, try a dinner theater. Most do serve alcohol but it is more family oriented and there's nothing like good live theater to take one's mind off their issues. In any event, take her somewhere that your male friends are not and where 'hitting on women' isn't prevalent. Also, if she finds their attention distressing, discretely advise them that there is a time and place to hit on your female friends and now is not the time nor place with this particular one. If they're truly friends, they'll respect that. While it's possible you and she may be in similar circumstances, it's also possible, and likely, that you each have different temperaments and personalities and are at different places upon the path to recovery and readiness to deal with men. Respecting her path is part of being a loving friend. I'll add a couple more 'whys'.... for men who believe in 'leagues', vulnerability gives them a narrower margin to bridge if the woman, at full strength, is 'above' them. Obviously, if the man is a predator, a vulnerable woman isn't much different than a wounded animal; she's easy prey. For men who enjoy casual sex, a vulnerable woman is often more easily bedded. In fact, most of the women who have approached me sexually, both when married as well as single, were in such states of vulnerability and sex was a form of validation for them, one which I didn't participate in. It will get better. If she can get some good alone time to regroup, she'll be back out there before she knows it, presuming that's what she wants. Hope it works out
Eternal Sunshine Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 I am a broken woman and I openly displayed my broked-ness to my current bf. I did ask him recently how come it didn't turn him off. He said that he saw me as emotionally open - which to him is attractive. He doesn't like women who appear to be too together as he sees them as "cold". One of the things that he values the most in a partner is ability to feel and show deep emotion, even if those emotions are sometimes negative. Having been with him for around 5 motnhs, it's pretty safe to say that he is not predatory (I waited 6 weeks to have sex with him). He also says that to him I seemed like I was being myself. He IS a hard core romantic - the fact I only learned after I got to know him well. He tries to cover it up as he was teased in the past for not being a "real man". I absolutely love the romance. The flowers, little gifts, little notes that tell me how he feels, songs which lyrics match how he feels about me at the time We also make love to a soundtrack of love songs while gazing into each other eyes. The sex has never been better for me. Again, I am sure that a lot of girls would find it too mushy - but I adore it. Weirdly, he saw some of my weaknesses as strengths (he doesn't like that I still don't trust him though).
grkBoy Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Predatory? Pretty much. I've noticed many guys, even good looking ones, who mainly prey on women with low self-esteem and/or other vulnerabilities. Seen drunk girls whom guys instantly try to make out with, simply because the girl is drunk and doesn't coherently know what she's doing. This is why many girls even have the "pack of women" cliques to cockblock these guys. Seen many guys even who offer their hot drunk female friends to crash at his place...because he's got the downtown condo and these girls live with their parents in the burbs. Usual story...they get there, he starts trying to make out with her, she's somewhat saying "no", but he keeps persisting...then she caves in and wakes up the next morning naked and wondering how she could have slept with him. You're being a good friend by protecting her. I think in her case it's the predators, but I also agree that many other guys just like to feel needed. I know I dated a string of broken women because they needed me at the time...despite that once they felt better they ran off to chase more douchebags. Lesson learned. I'd tell you the same...don't date broken women and women with massive baggage.
GivenUp0083 Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 White Knight syndrome, or Predators. Hard to tell. White Knight Syndrome....never heard that, nice! This is pretty much why I don't "approach" women at bars. I mean, if I meet someone through friends or the group I'm with, then sure I'll chat with them and see if there's chemistry, but I'll never go for broke and put myself out on a limb to just talk to a girl. There's too many ways and reasons for them to assume that you're only just trying to get into her pants. Maybe, just maybe, there's some guys who can see she's upset and they just want to talk and try and cheer her up without any motivations other than getting to know someone new. As you get older, meeting new people gets harder and harder. There are some good people still left in the world.
BetheButterfly Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 An easy lay. It's a dominance thing. So yeah, predatory. Of course, if you took her to a pub of all places, that's to be expected. It's a hornet's nest. Don't find many white knights over there. Although, maybe I've just been to some sh*tty bars. If she has any hobbies, she'd probably find less of "predators" over there. Like a cooking class or something. Although men are probably the last thing she needs right now. Totally agree... white knights don't tend to hang out in alehouses anyways, right? They are normally busy fighting dragons or wooing fair maidens, and maidens aren't normally found drinking their problems away. They're normally in high towers singing about their true love, right? Yeah she doesn't need to go into bars... she needs cooking class or pottery or dancing class or something that can spark her creative side and cause her to see the beauty in life without her ex.
BetheButterfly Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 I am a broken woman and I openly displayed my broked-ness to my current bf. I did ask him recently how come it didn't turn him off. He said that he saw me as emotionally open - which to him is attractive. He doesn't like women who appear to be too together as he sees them as "cold". One of the things that he values the most in a partner is ability to feel and show deep emotion, even if those emotions are sometimes negative. Having been with him for around 5 motnhs, it's pretty safe to say that he is not predatory (I waited 6 weeks to have sex with him). He also says that to him I seemed like I was being myself. He IS a hard core romantic - the fact I only learned after I got to know him well. He tries to cover it up as he was teased in the past for not being a "real man". I absolutely love the romance. The flowers, little gifts, little notes that tell me how he feels, songs which lyrics match how he feels about me at the time We also make love to a soundtrack of love songs while gazing into each other eyes. The sex has never been better for me. Again, I am sure that a lot of girls would find it too mushy - but I adore it. Weirdly, he saw some of my weaknesses as strengths (he doesn't like that I still don't trust him though). That's awesome! I'm so happy for you! It's great that he accepts you how you are and doesn't want you to wear a mask. I do hope that you learn to trust him and that you enjoy every precious moment with him. When you worry, it's hard to enjoy. It is so cool that ya'll found each other and are real with each other!!! That's beautiful about making love to love songs... My man would burst out laughing if I asked him if we could do that lol... he's not really romantic, (romance is a chore he has to remind himself to do )but that's ok. I love him anyways.
grkBoy Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 If the men were really predatory, they would be at a funeral or church service, or some other place where emotions run high, Like Wedding Crashers
sally4sara Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Your friend being emotional in public suggests to insecure men that she is without the powers of reason and therefore more likely to not see what they believe themselves to be - no one a woman with a sound mind would give any time to. Lots of men today are really struggling because they were lead to believe women don't get with men out of the simple desire for companionship and affection but out of NEED. In the modern world, what women need help with has become diminished in a way that makes it obvious to all. So they don't know how to advertise themselves anymore. Sharking the shallow waters looking for a damsel in distress because they doubt female sexuality to have the same motivations as male sexuality. Want, passion, desire, touch and the sharing of ideas? No. They still think we want a body guard to provide all our basic needs via their wallet. If only these fellas would realize what year it is and the world they live in. Some do. Others are looking for easy marks and tired methods.
Dust Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Any time a woman a guy finds attractive cries in public it gives that man a chance for an ice breaker like “hi why are you crying?” This will only be worsened by the fact you are in a bar/club.
thatone Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Your friend being emotional in public suggests to insecure men that she is without the powers of reason and therefore more likely to not see what they believe themselves to be - no one a woman with a sound mind would give any time to. Lots of men today are really struggling because they were lead to believe women don't get with men out of the simple desire for companionship and affection but out of NEED. In the modern world, what women need help with has become diminished in a way that makes it obvious to all. So they don't know how to advertise themselves anymore. Sharking the shallow waters looking for a damsel in distress because they doubt female sexuality to have the same motivations as male sexuality. Want, passion, desire, touch and the sharing of ideas? No. They still think we want a body guard to provide all our basic needs via their wallet. If only these fellas would realize what year it is and the world they live in. Some do. Others are looking for easy marks and tired methods. and none of this idealism applies in a bar.
thatone Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) I hope the "predator" crowd doesn't look around for help and chivalry next time they need it. Why would men want to ever help a stranger or even offer if they are going to be presumed predators in return? People wonder how nice guys turn into jerks, am beginning to think that most don't but rather are just painted that way by women, that there are few real jerks out there, just lots of drama queen women without a grip on reality. i think you're missing who you're dealing with here. of course the women replying to this thread apply their notions and assumptions that paint all men as evil and the sobbing girl as innocent and well intentioned. but they aren't considering who they're replying to either. consider the OP... Back during my junior year of high school (four - five years ago), I went to a school where I clicked with the theatre people. One of those people, was a good friend of mine who was a senior at the time. For a few years, she dated this guy off and on, but I think that in the end, they were both way too immature to be in a relationship, especially with one another. Before graduating, they broke up for good, and I don't think that they even talk to each other any more. Her and my friendship was so "good" that I went to her baby shower a couple weeks ago even though she moved to a different state a couple years ago. I'm just wondering...would it be a terrible idea to think of getting involved with him? He's single right now and though he's moved around a lot the past couple years, he's planning on staying here for a while longer if he can get an acting gig. Or would this just be a bad thing to do considering my friend, therefore making him off limits? (Note: I just have a crush on him, and thinking about starting something..you know, send him a message on Facebook or something and go from there.) Did he give you the vibes he was interested? A guy that is interested will move mountains to be with you, just saying. My whole point is, if he's not doing the chasing, he's not interested ENOUGH, If you respect yourself, that should be enough information to say 'NEXT'. there are plenty more such examples, that was just the most recent one that came to mind. she's the predator, even moreso than the men in the bar. Edited July 14, 2011 by thatone
samspade Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 I have a gf that has just been dumped- she's not beautiful, she's average- and very naive. I've been bringing her out a lot lately because she's in a bad place. She cries and laments about her ex constantly- but my male friends want to swoop in and take advantage It seems like the more she cries= the more men swoop in and try and get in there. I don't get what men see in a broken women. She was sitting with me tonight bawling her eyes out at a pub- and guys were coming on strong to her. Predatory? Not "predatory." More like White Knighting. These men want to be Capt. Save-a-Ho. They think that they'll swoop in, solve her problems, and score. It's totally disingenuous, more beta/nice guy behavior that simply doesn't work. Of course, these guys can always claim that they were just trying to "help," since they don't have the nuts to own their sexuality and approach women in a masculine way. You can't solve a woman's problems - so don't try.
Nexus One Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) I'll tell you exactly what a player once told me years ago. Don't ask me why they tell me this sh*t, I don't know and I never use it, but this is the kind of talk you'll hear certain guys spout when they're amongst other guys. Him: "The most opportune moment to seduce a girl is when she just broke up with her boyfriend, it's a moment when she's emotional and she craves for support, she'll not be thinking clearly and will be easily lead by her crave for emotional support. At those moments girls are weak and that's the moment you can easily f*ck them." (he spoke from experience) Me: ... (not sure what to say) Him: And oh yeah, DON'T EVER f*ck a fat girl, they're like sticky tape, you won't ever get rid of them. Fat girls are some dedicated b*tches, they'll follow you around, wait at your house, sh*t like that. It's possible, BUT not necessarily the case that those men sense a weakness in your friend and want to exploit it. Note that this doesn't necessarily is the case with every guy that hits on her, but some might very well have different motives. Edited July 14, 2011 by Nexus One
OldOnTheInside Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 Totally agree... white knights don't tend to hang out in alehouses anyways, right? They are normally busy fighting dragons or wooing fair maidens, and maidens aren't normally found drinking their problems away. They're normally in high towers singing about their true love, right? Yeah she doesn't need to go into bars... she needs cooking class or pottery or dancing class or something that can spark her creative side and cause her to see the beauty in life without her ex. You're being silly. I like that... White knights drink scotch and read novellas in their spare time. They don't have time for alehouses.
dispatch3d Posted July 14, 2011 Posted July 14, 2011 They probably just don't want to see a girl crying. That's all.
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