[zman]

Agree or Disagree?

[quankanne]

disagree. It's actions, not thoughts, that have consequences.

[NEONINK]

Absolutely agree... There are no good or bad events, just different.

If I think, 'This breakup is going to be the worst thing in the world'... You bet it will be, and my world will feel like it's ended.

If I think, 'I'm not going to break down and cry, I'm going to be strong and move on, because God has something planned for me even bigger and better', chances are better and quicker for a positive, healthy outcome.

Attitude. It doesn't always work, but it's better than nothing. Perhaps the actual events that led to the thought are not changed, but how we perceive them can make all the difference in the world. The key is to actually want the positive side of the coin. Quite frankly, when you run in the path of self-destruction and pity and misery for so long, it's hard to break out of the rut. I'm personally having a hard time choosing the better path of thought because I've been down so long, by choice, which is what the quote is referring to.


* The Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Vincent Peale

* How to Make Yourself Miserable By Windy Dryden - a Sheldon Press book


Are probably examples that the quote is accurate.

[Iamhappy]

I'd say thoughts affect actions and perceptions and the assignment of meaning. I think therefore I am (Descartes).

[jenny]

babies -
is this for a homework assignment? that would change the flavour of my answer. if it is, you should provide the context and historical meaning of the quotation before soliciting answers.

[zman]

Originally posted by quankanne
disagree. It's actions, not thoughts, that have consequences.

I don't think the meaning of my Shakespearian quote was that thoughts and not actions have consequences.

They both do.

How about this:

Watch your thoughts;
they become words.

Watch your words;
they become actions.

Watch your actions;
they become habits.

Watch your habits;
they become character.

Watch your character;
it becomes your destiny.

[2SidestoStories]

Change your thinking; change your life.

[zman]

Originally posted by jenny
babies -
is this for a homework assignment? that would change the flavour of my answer. if it is, you should provide the context and historical meaning of the quotation before soliciting answers.

Good point! Unfortunately I'm guilty of not knowing which play this quote comes from or what the context is. Perhaps some Shakespearian experts on this site can enlighten me and the rest of us!

[Iamhappy]

Hamlet Act II Scene II I think.

Though I do believe that Shakespeare borrowed it from French essayist Montaigne who believed that our moral judgments are simply a reflection of the customs of the society to which we belong. Hence, there is no objective right or wrong.

[moimeme]

Maybe it's just one of those 'what do you think about life' threads.

If we're talking about actions, then we're into the field of morality; objective or subjective.

I'm taking it in the Ellis sense of 'you feel as you think' and I agree. You can look at any event as a complete disaster or as a challenge to be overcome. You can allow yourself to believe 'I can't live without him' or else decide that there will be another person. If your chemicals are all working straight, then you need to be sure your thinking patterns are, too.

[jenny]

Originally posted by Iamnotnothing
Hamlet Act II Scene II I think.

Though I do believe that Shakespeare borrowed it from French essayist Montaigne who believed that our moral judgments are simply a reflection of the customs of the society to which we belong. Hence, there is no objective right or wrong.

you ROCK! who is it spoken by? hamlet is an immensely "moralized" play, that's so interesting!

[moimeme]

HAMLET: Denmark's a prison.
ROSENCRANTZ: Then is the world one.
HAMLET: A goodly one; in which there are many confines, wards and dungeons, Denmark being one o' the worst.
ROSENCRANTZ: We think not so, my lord.
HAMLET: Why, then, 'tis none to you; for there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so: to me it is a prison.

Poor man's version: one man's trash is another man's treasure

[zman]

Originally posted by Iamnotnothing
Hamlet Act II Scene II I think.

You are correct! Here is the context:

Hamlet
(blah, blah, blah,) ..... What's the news?

Rosencrantz
None, my lord, but that the world's grown honest.

Hamlet
Then is doomsday near: but your news is not true.
Let me question more in particular: what have you,
my good friends, deserved at the hands of fortune,
that she sends you to prison hither?

Guildenstern
Prison, my lord!

Hamlet
Denmark's a prison.

Rosencrantz
Then is the world one.

Hamlet
A goodly one; in which there are many confines,
wards and dungeons, Denmark being one o' the worst.

Rosencrantz
We think not so, my lord.

Hamlet
Why, then, 'tis none to you; for there is nothing
either good or bad, but thinking makes it so: to me
it is a prison.

Rosencrantz
Why then, your ambition makes it one; 'tis too
narrow for your mind.

Hamlet
O God, I could be bounded in a nut shell and count
myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I
have bad dreams.

Guildenstern
Which dreams indeed are ambition, for the very
substance of the ambitious is merely the shadow of a dream.

Hamlet
A dream itself is but a shadow.

Rosencrantz
Truly, and I hold ambition of so airy and light a
quality that it is but a shadow's shadow.

Hamlet
Then are our beggars bodies, and our monarchs and
outstretched heroes the beggars' shadows. Shall we
to the court? for, by my fay, I cannot reason.


For fuller context, click on the link:
http://www.worldwideschool.org/libra...let/chap7.html

[EnigmaXOXO]

Agree.

But I also wonder if the human conscience as we know it is inherent or learned. Are emotions such as guilt and remorse instinctual and biologically ingrained just as anger, sadness and joy...or are they simply a bi-product of our social conditioning?

If we were taught from infancy that there was no distinction between right or wrong behavior, would we then also feel no emotion at all when committing atrocities against our fellow man?

Frightening.

[moimeme]

This discussion needs to branch off into all of philosophy and much of psychology to answer that!