Been a casual reader of these boards for some time and iv been meaning to spill this, so here goes. im not very good at putting my erratic thoughts into words nor I am i a good writer so excuse the long read.
The Past:
I used to be an average pre-teen boy with school friends and played good football, but I used to cry a lot when kids made fun of me and my grades were not good. High school was not much better, I was bullied and never really fit in at all. I used to have one good friend from elementary school (was not in my grade so he didnt know my rep) and a few others (went to different schools or they would know how much of a loser I was) but I dont remember really clicking with anyone.
In grade 10 I dropped out of my high school because I completely lost interest in it. Skipped most of my classes, most of it to do with people in those classes thinking I was weird, or having to work with other students. I was terrified of working with other students. outside of school when i was with my "friends", i hardly talked very much and when i look back i wonder why they wanted to be friends with me at all.
I took homeschooling to finish grade 10 and then, in nov 99, my parents got me the internet. I was instantly hooked to online games and spent every moment of my free time on line. eventually i was limited to a few hours a day and the weekends, but everyday all i wanted was my next online fix. I went to an alternative school that had only around 50 people. alternative schools are special schools for teenage kids with problems, like drug-use, etc etc. everyone in my school was very social with the teachers and each other. except me. all the people at this school reminded me of the popular kids and bullies from my old school so i avoided them. during lunch and break instead of going out back and socializing like literally everyone else in the place i would go outside and walk around the side streets alone, and eat my lunch alone. there were a lot of social events and dances that i never went to. i would skip classes that involved any group activities. luckily the other students pretty much left me alone and i has not required to work with others so i did very well at this school. alone. when i graduated i didn't go to the grad dinner and came out of that school after about 2 years not making a single friend, hardly talking to a single person.
I was 19. i took some adult education so i could qualify for college, and when i went i had the same problems with people, the same craving for online games, and as a result i skipped a lot of classes and had to take out a lot of loans to make things up over the course of 3 years. even to this day i have not completed my diploma. I quit college for a while to work, and all the jobs i have worked i always have problems with co workers picking on me, and bad communication with bosses which ends up getting me fired. I hopped around counceling here and there, they all said i had social phobia, but they were of little help. i went to group therapy, but i never talked at all and eventually stopped going. Medication didnt help at all.
Where was my family in all this? they did very little. I have absolutely no relationship with my family. I never had one. I dont give a **** about them. Thats just how I feel. My parents, my brothers, my neice and newphew. I feel no emotional connection or attachment to them. I dont remember their birthdays, i dont bother to really talk to them. I don't hug them. im not mad at them. i just don't care. One time a few years ago at a family gathering at a restaurant i actually started crying in front of everyone without saying a word. i just did. i dont remember how i felt. It almost happened again last easter sunday. I used to hide in the bathroom or bring a book to family gatherings and just sit in the corner and read and completely ignore everyone.
The Present:
I am currently 25 years old. I have never had a significant friendship since I was a pre-teen or intimate relationship ever. I never even kissed a girl or hugged one. Although i think i have made a little improvement over the past few years, im still much the same person i used to be 10 years ago. I live with my parents. Have no drivers licence. Still have no relationship with my family, although i talk to my brothers more. still play online games to pass time. its as if my personal growth and development and maturity were completely put on stasis for 10 years. stunted. my conscious analyzing thinking mind took a nap for 25 ****ing years and just woke up very groggy. a 15 year old trapped in a 25 year old body. a child trying to survive in a world of adults.
The biggest improvment between then and now is that i now realize that i have a huge problem and im not normal. before i never thought about it, ever. i dont know wtf i was thinking about to not figure out things were not all right. its like i was completely sleeping and now im just half awake. its like living in a glass ball with tinted glass and the glass suddenly becomes untinted and you can see the outside. you can see life. but you cant touch it. you cant experience it. life just passes you.
and now that i look at it, i see how ****ed i truly am. how can i possibly make up for 10 years of absolute neglect to my social and personal development and maturity? i did research online and i know i have the typical low self esteem, no confidence, dont think before i talk, very self conscious, insecure, pretty much social phobia but a lot of other things.
iv always tried to blame other people, like my parents and my brothers for their absolute neglect. i diagnosed myself with various personality disorders like schziod PD and avoidant PD because i seemed to meet the criteria, i even thought i was autistic. but at the end of the day, i know i only have me to blame, even though i really don't think so.
i want to be committed to rejoining the human race. i really do. but i know it will be hard. does anyone have any advice? recommended books? how to get started?
Last edited by TooLittleTooLate; 21st April 2008 at 6:21 AM.
I commend you for being brave and finally taking responsability for your life. The first step in every self change program is to realize you have a problem and you and only you have the power to to do anything about it. There are tons of self books, and you can even download them from torrent sites of from your public library, but on top of reading the self improvement books, you also need to evaluate your life and decide what you want from it.
Make a list and starting checking things off as you make progress towards completing them.
Are you happy with your job? Yes/No If No, what job do you want? Do you need to go to school to get that job? Then apply yourself to the job you currently have to get the money you need for school.
Are you happy with the way you look? Yes/No If No, start excersising until you feel confortable with yourself. Exercise is also good to clear your mind and helps you clear your mind and realeases the bad energy you have.
How about your parents, are they kind to you. I assume they must be otherwise they would have kick you out of the house already.
Maybe if you give therapy another try it would help you this time around since you are more open to your problems, so therefore you'll be more receptive to the possible solutions of them.
But all in all, this is a great step for you, being able to regognize you have a problem and trying to do something about it.
This free audio book may help. You are not alone in your thinking. It's always good to remember as well that thoughts are things and energy always follows thought. It's called the Majesty of Calmness by William George Jordan. It's about 1 hour and a few minutes long. I hope this helps a little bit.
"I give hope to men. I keep none for myself." - Return of the King
I don't think its ever "too late" to start a personal journey. The most important thing is that you have taken the first step.
I don't have any groundbreaking advice for you except is there anything that interests you that would involve you being in contact with other people? Before online gaming, people I know used to play stuff like Dungeons and Dragons and all that, and they were quite social little groups in their own way.
Joining groups or clubs is a great way to meet people with common interests.
Socialising online is not a bad start though- hiding behind a computer can still give you confidence if you are interacting with others online.
I agree about giving therapy another try- it could be more successful now you are committed to changing.
PS- I doubt you need to change EVERYTHING. You come across as pretty articulate to me, and I bet that you just need those social skills coaxing out of you.
First, I'm glad you sought help. Now, if you're looking for nice, just skip my post because I'm going to side with what I think would be more effective than pleasant.
Speaking from personal experience, I think you're spoiled rotten. You may think life has kicked you around some (based on your grade school predicaments and its residual effect on your 'adult' behavior) but you seem to take the things you have for granted. How would I know, right? Well, because your story mirrors mine very closely. Except my awakening was when I turned 23. Not too far off. Here's some stuff I learned self-reflecting that I hope helps you.
There's a big difference in what you want to do and what society tells you to want to do. Why does this matter? Because your self-esteem might be riding on this concept. Lots of your post hints at self-deprecation through society defined 'failures'. You say your grades weren't good. Did you even want to get good grades? Why? To appease your parents? Because society tells you that good grades means you're smart? Apply similar reasoning to the things that you think make you a 'loser'.
So you didn't go to any social events in school. You lagged behind academically due to online distractions (I'm too familiar with this one). You live with your parents. You don't have a driver's license. Never kissed or hugged a girl. At the base, all this proves is that you're easily distracted, depend heavily on your parents, don't know how to drive, and are unfamiliar with the opposite sex.
Why do you care to change? Do you want to remedy these because society defines these attributes as normal? Or do you want these things so much that you're willing to throw away the lifestyle that has hindered you from any or all of these? If it's the former, your journey might be more difficult and will probably lead to vicious circles and unnecessary challenges.
Ask yourself why you cried? It sounds like you were just fed up with yourself and your inability to connect. If this is right, then it's something you want to improve. Nobody had to tell you. Your body and mind gave the signals.
Here's my theory that I have trouble accepting but I think makes sense. It's not enough to want something so bad that you're willing to give it all you have. You also have to want it so bad that you're willing to repeatedly fail and try again. One day you might wake up and not even care about the desired outcome, but will be content that you strive so hard to get it. This is truly your best.
You also seem to root much of your past holding you back. This part is extremely difficult because I'm going to throw your analogy right back at you: "its like living in a glass ball with tinted glass". When you were in this tinted glass ball, was the perception of your family being so indifferent meeting the actual reality? Was your perception behind the tint where everybody was out to make fun of you a reality? This is difficult because you might realize living in such distortion warrants a re-evaluation of the reality of not just the things you put blame for your dysfunctions, but the reality of the things or people you might have ignored that attempted to help you.
I would have private mesasged you this because I know this community is geared to be sensitive and whatnot. It's only because you struck a chord with your story that I bothered to reply like this. If I get banned for being unkind, whatever. Nothing in this post is intended to be a nice, overnight solution. Just a sincere one.
First, I'm glad you sought help. Now, if you're looking for nice, just skip my post because I'm going to side with what I think would be more effective than pleasant.
Speaking from personal experience, I think you're spoiled rotten. You may think life has kicked you around some (based on your grade school predicaments and its residual effect on your 'adult' behavior) but you seem to take the things you have for granted. How would I know, right? Well, because your story mirrors mine very closely. Except my awakening was when I turned 23. Not too far off. Here's some stuff I learned self-reflecting that I hope helps you.
you're right. I am spoiled rotten. My brothers were always jealous because my father is doing for me what he never did for them. I get free room-and-board. My dad payed for a chunk of my college (which i am halfway completed). He does everything for me. He retired 2 years late because of me. I do take it all for granted. I show no appreciation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar Sonata
There's a big difference in what you want to do and what society tells you to want to do. Why does this matter? Because your self-esteem might be riding on this concept. Lots of your post hints at self-deprecation through society defined 'failures'. You say your grades weren't good. Did you even want to get good grades? Why? To appease your parents? Because society tells you that good grades means you're smart? Apply similar reasoning to the things that you think make you a 'loser'.
You imply that my self-esteem rides on "fitting in". being what society sees as "cool". thats not true. I just want what a normal mentally healthy person has: an identity. a social life. self-respect.
I always wonder if "normal" people at high school who had friends and were social just cruise through young life knowing what they want to do and where they want to go, never really having any real personal struggles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar Sonata
So you didn't go to any social events in school. You lagged behind academically due to online distractions (I'm too familiar with this one). You live with your parents. You don't have a driver's license. Never kissed or hugged a girl. At the base, all this proves is that you're easily distracted, depend heavily on your parents, don't know how to drive, and are unfamiliar with the opposite sex.
true.
true but not as much as I used to.
I can drive and am 4 months away from getting my N (so I can drive by myself)
true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar Sonata
Why do you care to change? Do you want to remedy these because society defines these attributes as normal? Or do you want these things so much that you're willing to throw away the lifestyle that has hindered you from any or all of these? If it's the former, your journey might be more difficult and will probably lead to vicious circles and unnecessary challenges.
Sometimes I wonder the same thing. Time passes at the same rate for everyone right? Why not live like a hermit in a 200 sq ft apartment alone, masturbating and playing games on all your free time while just barley surviving doing some mickey mouse minimum wage job? I remember a long time ago telling my family doctor that when he asked what I wanted in the future.
I want to change because I'm unhappy. Content because my basic survival needs are being met. Content but not happy. I imagine myself being a social person with a girl on my (muscular) arm and a fast car with a system. This makes me happy. Not saying that is what I will be, but anything is better then what I am now.
I really don't see what society has to do with anything. Does society say you have to have good grades? I don't give a **** what society thinks. People be what they want to be and express themselves in their own ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar Sonata
Ask yourself why you cried? It sounds like you were just fed up with yourself and your inability to connect. If this is right, then it's something you want to improve. Nobody had to tell you. Your body and mind gave the signals.
I cried because I felt inferior. I felt shame for what and who I am. I just wanted to hide my face. I am not on their level. My brothers, my nieces-in-law (who are my age and decent looking), I can't even look at them without being absolutely filled with shame at myself. I have trouble interpreting my emotions but I feel that's what it is.
I feel that, around my family, it's pointless to even try to talk to them because they will talk to me and dismiss me like a child. Especially my father.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunar Sonata
Here's my theory that I have trouble accepting but I think makes sense. It's not enough to want something so bad that you're willing to give it all you have. You also have to want it so bad that you're willing to repeatedly fail and try again. One day you might wake up and not even care about the desired outcome, but will be content that you strive so hard to get it. This is truly your best.
You also seem to root much of your past holding you back. This part is extremely difficult because I'm going to throw your analogy right back at you: "its like living in a glass ball with tinted glass". When you were in this tinted glass ball, was the perception of your family being so indifferent meeting the actual reality? Was your perception behind the tint where everybody was out to make fun of you a reality? This is difficult because you might realize living in such distortion warrants a re-evaluation of the reality of not just the things you put blame for your dysfunctions, but the reality of the things or people you might have ignored that attempted to help you.
My brother told me that nobody is ever held back by their past. We learn from the past. We learn what works to make you happy and what doesn't.
When you have had a bad past you forget about it and move forward because regretting the past and what you could have done different is a waste of time. I believe that the past prepares you for the present and because I have had such a bad past dealing with people, it left a permanent sour taste in my mouth.
What I meant by the glass ball analogy was that I can see people happy and living, I can see life, but I could not touch it, could not participate in it. I was trapped in my own reality, with my inside view of reality distorted by the tinted glass. That's the kicker. I always feel negative emotions when something happens for whatever reason. Negative thought patterns. I always perceive everything as negative. I'm sure it's not realistic, but I just cant help what I feel. I have no control over my emotions. An event may trigger a positive or negative thought in a different person depending how that person perceives it.
This is somthing I hope to change.
Thank you, and everyone, for the feedback and support. You mentioned that you were once like me. How did you change? I figured that I would work on my self-confidence first by working out or somthing, then get a book on social skills and read that. People Skills by robert bolten is a good one. Iv started reading Awaken the Giant Within by anthony robbins. Its supposed to be about taking control of your emotional, social, physical, and financial states.
Thanks once again for the replys guys.
Last edited by TooLittleTooLate; 28th April 2008 at 4:41 AM.
I always wonder if "normal" people at high school who had friends and were social just cruise through young life knowing what they want to do and where they want to go, never really having any real personal struggles.
I was social and "normal" and had lots of friends in high school I cruised for a little bit, but I definitely had personal struggles.
I got over them (after quite a long time) by realising that its OK not to be perfect and not being so hard on myself.
You could do with not putting such high expectations on yourself to change. Little by little is enough, you don't have to change overnight. Maybe you can find a happy medium where you retain some of who you are now- and you are happy with that.
I was social and "normal" and had lots of friends in high school I cruised for a little bit, but I definitely had personal struggles.
I got over them (after quite a long time) by realising that its OK not to be perfect and not being so hard on myself.
You could do with not putting such high expectations on yourself to change. Little by little is enough, you don't have to change overnight. Maybe you can find a happy medium where you retain some of who you are now- and you are happy with that.
I dunno. I have always been a huge gamer, and might always be. I am afraid that I might have to completely give them up if I am to have any significant change in my life.
I don't completely hate everything about myself. I can talk and joke with people at work somewhat. This chick at work I talk to sometimes thinks I am funny. I am somewhat developed, but my social and personal aspects have huge gaping holes in them that need to be filled.
I dunno. I have always been a huge gamer, and might always be. I am afraid that I might have to completely give them up if I am to have any significant change in my life.
I don't completely hate everything about myself. I can talk and joke with people at work somewhat. This chick at work I talk to sometimes thinks I am funny. I am somewhat developed, but my social and personal aspects have huge gaping holes in them that need to be filled.
Ah ha. A chink in the armour! I am glad you can see some of your positive attributes, it gives you something to focus on, and build on. Note i say "build" and not "improve".
Why do you have to give up gaming completely if its something you enjoy?
because it's the leading cause of my procrastination. It seems to temporarily fill the happiness void that should be filled with happiness stemming from being with people and achieving worthwhile life goals and whatnot.
But that's it, it's only temporary. I can't tell you how many times when I was going to school that I would skip a class or an assignment just so I can squeeze more hours into gaming, and at the end I would always feel completely like **** regretting it. And guess what? I did this again and again and again intill I was so behind I felt that was pointless to continue a class so I would drop it completely so I would have even more hours to game. I would wake up feeling completely empty inside except when I was inside this virtual world interacting with people. I quite literally had absolutely no social life outside this virtual world. It was like my brain was plugged into it directly and I was getting a high. This boys and girls is called internet addiction.
I can tell you right now that I dropped the game that I played to death online recently so that's an improvement, but I still play others but not as much because i'm working so much. That time could be better spent doing more productive things like improving myself.
It sounds like you are making progress... just stating it is making it more of a reality. You sound quite together to me. Good luck, I am sure you will be connecting with society in no time.
This may sound really stupid but... I always found in new, social situations that it's good to smile. You don't even have to speak, but if you smile and listen.. people will like you more. I know it's not about being liked, but in order to connect, it's certainly okay to be quiet if you are positive, smiling and friendly when spoken to. and making eye contact.
I wish you the best.. I am sure you will do fine. You are still young, and luckily are working on this now, instead of when you are 50!!
I do smile, and laugh etc. I can communicate with people. Just not as effectively as I like. Its just that I sometimes have a hard time explaining things, tend to stutter, tend say the wrong thing (I think), don't say the right things at appropriate times, and lots of other stuff. I find that I tend to be anxious so I lose my train of thought and don't think before I talk often. I dunno If I can chalk these up to lack of confidence or experience, or what.
When I'm behind my keyboard typing in a chat program or talking in teamspeak, people tell me ism funny etc etc. I dunno if that's who I really am behind all the nervousness and anxiousness or it's just me being something I'm not.
Been a casual reader of these boards for some time and iv been meaning to spill this, so here goes. im not very good at putting my erratic thoughts into words nor I am i a good writer so excuse the long read.
The Past:
I used to be an average pre-teen boy with school friends and played good football, but I used to cry a lot when kids made fun of me and my grades were not good. High school was not much better, I was bullied and never really fit in at all. I used to have one good friend from elementary school (was not in my grade so he didnt know my rep) and a few others (went to different schools or they would know how much of a loser I was) but I dont remember really clicking with anyone.
In grade 10 I dropped out of my high school because I completely lost interest in it. Skipped most of my classes, most of it to do with people in those classes thinking I was weird, or having to work with other students. I was terrified of working with other students. outside of school when i was with my "friends", i hardly talked very much and when i look back i wonder why they wanted to be friends with me at all.
I took homeschooling to finish grade 10 and then, in nov 99, my parents got me the internet. I was instantly hooked to online games and spent every moment of my free time on line. eventually i was limited to a few hours a day and the weekends, but everyday all i wanted was my next online fix. I went to an alternative school that had only around 50 people. alternative schools are special schools for teenage kids with problems, like drug-use, etc etc. everyone in my school was very social with the teachers and each other. except me. all the people at this school reminded me of the popular kids and bullies from my old school so i avoided them. during lunch and break instead of going out back and socializing like literally everyone else in the place i would go outside and walk around the side streets alone, and eat my lunch alone. there were a lot of social events and dances that i never went to. i would skip classes that involved any group activities. luckily the other students pretty much left me alone and i has not required to work with others so i did very well at this school. alone. when i graduated i didn't go to the grad dinner and came out of that school after about 2 years not making a single friend, hardly talking to a single person.
I was 19. i took some adult education so i could qualify for college, and when i went i had the same problems with people, the same craving for online games, and as a result i skipped a lot of classes and had to take out a lot of loans to make things up over the course of 3 years. even to this day i have not completed my diploma. I quit college for a while to work, and all the jobs i have worked i always have problems with co workers picking on me, and bad communication with bosses which ends up getting me fired. I hopped around counceling here and there, they all said i had social phobia, but they were of little help. i went to group therapy, but i never talked at all and eventually stopped going. Medication didnt help at all.
Where was my family in all this? they did very little. I have absolutely no relationship with my family. I never had one. I dont give a **** about them. Thats just how I feel. My parents, my brothers, my neice and newphew. I feel no emotional connection or attachment to them. I dont remember their birthdays, i dont bother to really talk to them. I don't hug them. im not mad at them. i just don't care. One time a few years ago at a family gathering at a restaurant i actually started crying in front of everyone without saying a word. i just did. i dont remember how i felt. It almost happened again last easter sunday. I used to hide in the bathroom or bring a book to family gatherings and just sit in the corner and read and completely ignore everyone.
The Present:
I am currently 25 years old. I have never had a significant friendship since I was a pre-teen or intimate relationship ever. I never even kissed a girl or hugged one. Although i think i have made a little improvement over the past few years, im still much the same person i used to be 10 years ago. I live with my parents. Have no drivers licence. Still have no relationship with my family, although i talk to my brothers more. still play online games to pass time. its as if my personal growth and development and maturity were completely put on stasis for 10 years. stunted. my conscious analyzing thinking mind took a nap for 25 ****ing years and just woke up very groggy. a 15 year old trapped in a 25 year old body. a child trying to survive in a world of adults.
The biggest improvment between then and now is that i now realize that i have a huge problem and im not normal. before i never thought about it, ever. i dont know wtf i was thinking about to not figure out things were not all right. its like i was completely sleeping and now im just half awake. its like living in a glass ball with tinted glass and the glass suddenly becomes untinted and you can see the outside. you can see life. but you cant touch it. you cant experience it. life just passes you.
and now that i look at it, i see how ****ed i truly am. how can i possibly make up for 10 years of absolute neglect to my social and personal development and maturity? i did research online and i know i have the typical low self esteem, no confidence, dont think before i talk, very self conscious, insecure, pretty much social phobia but a lot of other things.
iv always tried to blame other people, like my parents and my brothers for their absolute neglect. i diagnosed myself with various personality disorders like schziod PD and avoidant PD because i seemed to meet the criteria, i even thought i was autistic. but at the end of the day, i know i only have me to blame, even though i really don't think so.
i want to be committed to rejoining the human race. i really do. but i know it will be hard. does anyone have any advice? recommended books? how to get started?
Hey there TooLittle reading this honestly reminded me of myself I had almost the exact upbringing went to the "special" schools ate alone was the outcast had no school friends.
Family s*cked back then and for the most part S*ck to this day I did the bathroom thing I was the outcast at family gatherings and so on as well Internet is my escape also always has been.
Nothing wrong with internet long as you dont lose yourself compleately in it on line games are great! I use to feel the exact same way like I was the weird one looking at life passing me by.
Until I finally decided to except myself as I am and after I did that life as a hole got allot easer dealing with people def did.
To this day I don't have any really close friends but I'm ok with that I find it makes life less complicated. My advice relax and learn to except yourself exactly as you are 1st.
Don't over stress because you don't exactly fit into what sociality says you should be who's really normal in this life honestly? if you really think about it.
By the way feel free to PM me if you like maybe I can help you seeing as we went thu allot of the same sh*t it seams.. I know not the norm advice in this case but it worked for me..
__________________
~But I'm funny how, I mean funny like I'm a clown, I amuse you? I make you laugh, I'm here to amuse you?~
Add me to the "hey you sound like me!" club. I'm also a big geek, had no friends in high school, went to the "alternative" school, etc. So you're not a freak.
Are you still in college? or are you just working? I would suggest you work on moving out of your parents' house. Some might say this will isolate you even more, but given that you don't get along with them anyway, this may be a good idea. It would do a lot for your independence, since you said you were spoiled (me too!) Perhaps you could find some room mates?
Being into video games is not lame...trust me...nerds are everywhere. Maybe there are some LAN party groups in your area? They're always a lot of fun...you might even be able to find information online. I think I've seen info at comic book shops, sometimes they host them there. A friend of mine has actually made friends through a video game message board, and now they all hang out and play games together. Some might think it's weird, but it's a good way to meet people like yourself.
PS: You mentioned getting your "N" soon, are you from BC? If so, that's one more thing we have in common, haha.
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