Location: Republic of Georgia, Washington D.C., Russia, South Carolina.... depends when you ask me
Posts: 176
Christians: Would you stone your daughter to death if she wasn't a virgin at wedding?
Would you stone your daughter to death if she was not a virgin on her wedding bed? I don't know... I have these spurts when I start studying the Bible intensely and I dig through the rougher texts of the old testement and instead of running into these really nice peaceful verses I always run into stuff like this...
Deuteronomy 22:20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl's virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father's house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father's house. You must purge the evil from among you.
I don't have a preacher or study group to discuss stuff like this now, so I'm asking here. How would a devout Christian tell me how to act when reading a chapter like this... I know most likely you will give me some stuff about context or something, because this was for the Isrealites at whatever time period, but most people just tell me the Word of God is perfect and that you shouldn't compromise... but then... anyways, thanks...
And I'm really not trying to be a skeptic. I am sincerely curious.
__________________
The reason people find it so hard to be happy is that they always see the past better than it was, the present worse than it is, and the future less resolved than it will be
-Marcel Pagnol
well, prolly the most assuring thing we as Christians believe is that God is a loving, forgiving God. That mistakes aren't permanently etched in stone when one is truly repentant about doing wrong (to God, to self, to community/others).
I think Old Testament readings serve to highlight the fact that God is a forgiving God ...
as for your original question, would I stone my kid to death for not being a virgin upon marrying? No. Because I understand the enjoyable nature of sex and because I realize that I am called to be loving as my Father is loving, and forgiving as He is forgiving.
__________________ "Walking in the Lord's footsteps, our own lives become a journey of hope." – Pope Benedict XVI
Nope, I wouldn't stone her to death. That would mean someone should have stoned me, several times over. The old testament, has a lot of rules and regulations that Jesue himself answered in one statement. Yeah without sin, cast the first stone. I have no stones in my pocket.
well, prolly the most assuring thing we as Christians believe is that God is a loving, forgiving God.
Who, in His perfect word, orders us to stone people to death?
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That mistakes aren't permanently etched in stone...
Instead they are etched by stones, it seems. ZING!
Oh man I'm good.
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as for your original question, would I stone my kid to death for not being a virgin upon marrying? No. Because I understand the enjoyable nature of sex and because I realize that I am called to be loving as my Father is loving, and forgiving as He is forgiving.
But you are disobeying God's word and leaning on your own imperfect, human understanding on the matter.
Lets get a few things cleared up about Christianity and how we are suppose to handle the correction of sin.
1) We are NOT the Israelites. There it has never been in God's plans for Christians to follow in the footsteps of the Israelites. That is why Christians are suppose to be of a more forgiving nature. Example, in the New Testament (which is where the concepts and precepts of Christianity were conceived), Jesus Christ who is from the Israelites, was confronted by a mob of his own people who wanted to know what they and he would do about a woman who was caught in adultery. According to the laws of the Israelites such a person (AND THE CHEATER, that is the second mistake the Israelites made in this situation) was suppose to be stoned to death. But, Jesus replied, "Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone." John 8:7.
What I think a lot of people fail to see is that there are two versions of God in the Bible. In the Old Testament, it was mostly about the hard, heavy, vengeful God. He was all about His chosen and to Hell with the rest of the world (in less elegant terms). But, the God of the New Testament is about love, forgiveness, not judging others, taking a new path to saving as many people who wish to be saved.
2) A Christian is NOT suppose to judge. But, my looking at the actions one takes, he or she should administer on to that person so they may at least hear the word and know what is out there. And if that person is to refuse, we are to leave that person alone. As well with established church members, those who persist in doing the wrong thing is to be cast out so that that person does not corrupt the rest of the body of the church with their actions (the equivalent of Jesus telling us (metaphorically) that it is better to loose an eye or limb or other sinful part of our body before that one part draws the whole body into Hell). So, no we do not judge a person because of the sins they do, because we do not know God's plans for that person (think about how many of our worst criminals have turned around and turned their lives over to God).
So, no, we do not let what a person does wrong say bad or disrespectful things about them (meaning you don't curse a person or hate the person or just write them off because you judge them as not or ever mounting to any good), but at the same time you don't let them continually sin before you and you part ways before they ensnare you. This is one of the hardest parts about being a Christian.
Now to answer your question...No. I would not stone any of my children or anyone else for that matter if they fornicated or continued in such a matter. But, I will let them know that certain acts will not be tolerated in my presence or home and if you continued to do so, I will separate you from me so that you don't taint me or my home. BUT this does not mean I (or any Christian) should harden our hearts to that person when they ask to return. Like the prodigal son who asked for his inheritance from his dad, wasted it all on sinful things, and when left destitute and eating from a pig's trough, remembered his father, dropped his pride, and went back home. He asked his father to take him back and that he would gladly work as a servant in order to come home. His father, without judgment, anger, holding things over his son's head, welcomed him back with open arms and treated him as if he never left. (There is more to the story, but that deals with another moral that has nothing to do with this topic)
We as people, have to realize...We can instruct our kids and others how to behave, what's right and what is wrong, what to do and not to do...But, people also being individuals are going to do what they want to do. It might hurt us and it may sadden us, and many times it will disgust and anger us. That is fine. Tell them about it. If you have to, tell them to stay away for a time, but their has to be a point for forgiveness and forgetting of their wrongs or behaviors (it does not mean you have to let them back in). And though my daughter or son having sex before they were married would sadden me, but I would not stone them or anything else.
I asked these kinds of questions too and I got this answer:
The old testament is about showing us how holy God is and the new testament is about showing how forgiving god is by giving us a way to heaven.
I think the Holy Bible is the largest proof that christianity is the theory of humankind, not an all knowing, all loving god deity. It is a continuously changing work in progress being held back by political and personal agenda. If it were the words of an all knowing and all loving god it wouldn't hold so many contradictions.
I asked these kinds of questions too and I got this answer:
The old testament is about showing us how holy God is and the new testament is about showing how forgiving god is by giving us a way to heaven.
I think the Holy Bible is the largest proof that christianity is the theory of humankind, not an all knowing, all loving god deity. It is a continuously changing work in progress being held back by political and personal agenda. If it were the words of an all knowing and all loving god it wouldn't hold so many contradictions.
I really would love to someone to show me two Bibles that does not say the same thing. I know people rewrite the Bible to make it more understandable for a variety of people, which is wise (how many of you can get through a King James with all the old English language in it, with obsolete words and verbalige). And how many of you have a talent for speaking other languages (I speak English, bad English, poor Ebonics, gibberish, and Michaelese). What contradictions are you talking about. Find some scriptures that contradict themselves so I can find them in my Bible. I have read it back and forth several times now over my existance, and I have found none.
The Bible is not a work in progress. What is said and what was done, is what was said and what was done. In the New Testament, in the book of Revelations to be exact...Jesus Christ personally said to John in a vision. If anyone takes away from what is written in this book, so shall his name be taken out of the book of life. And if anyone should add on to what is written in the Bible, so shall their torments be added upon. God had written in the Bible what He wanted. And while a lot of people might believe there are lost scriptures and stuff taken out, I go back to that scripture. The Bible is a foundation and should be taken as so. This is why it is good to read other things. Try out more personalized forms of worship. Get into a routine and desire to learn more, because, the Bible is just a foundation and the strongest foundation in a Christian's spiritual life.
Perfect example, me, while I am a Christian, I still read books on romance, relationships, I even am reading various books published by the Church of Scientology. Why? Because they enhance my spirituality. The help me add to what I know from the Bible and help me to fine tune it for what God has intended for my life. It is like with these scriptures taken out. Its not to say if they are true or false, one take them for what they see them as. But, no one (especially a Christian) should ever believe the Bible is incomplete or a work in progress, then, what would that say about the God in which Christians worship?
Oh. I almost forgot. Yes, God has several depictions in the Bible. For those who believe that we are made in the image of God...God is a very multifaceted being as we are. He laughs, cries, gets angry (HELLO! Flood!), loves (He still created us even though He knew how we would turn out), and just about every other emotion we have. So, yes, you are going to see various emotions of God. I personally would not want to worship a monotoned deity.
DNR
If you want to know what God is like? Look at us. Look at nature. And in these you will see who God is.
Oh. I almost forgot. Yes, God has several depictions in the Bible. For those who believe that we are made in the image of God...God is a very multifaceted being as we are. He laughs, cries, gets angry (HELLO! Flood!), loves (He still created us even though He knew how we would turn out), and just about every other emotion we have. So, yes, you are going to see various emotions of God. I personally would not want to worship a monotoned deity.
DNR
If you want to know what God is like? Look at us. Look at nature. And in these you will see who God is.
I agree with you about the christian god being a mirror reflection of humans. I agree with it because I thing we created what we think it wants from us.
I spoke of contradictions because it is contradictory for a god to wish a girl be stoned to death for fornication and also claim to be all forgiving. You can find that in any version of the bible you like.
1) We are NOT the Israelites. There it has never been in God's plans for Christians to follow in the footsteps of the Israelites. That is why Christians are suppose to be of a more forgiving nature. Example, in the New Testament (which is where the concepts and precepts of Christianity were conceived), Jesus Christ who is from the Israelites, was confronted by a mob of his own people who wanted to know what they and he would do about a woman who was caught in adultery. According to the laws of the Israelites such a person (AND THE CHEATER, that is the second mistake the Israelites made in this situation) was suppose to be stoned to death. But, Jesus replied, "Let He Who Is Without Sin Cast The First Stone." John 8:7.
The room we both could've saved on LS's server all in waste, but needs clarified, (in my mind).
Although I can appreciate your view on this particular Scripture, I really think you're missing the whole point.
The Old Testament, aka, "Old Covenant" was a specific set of rules and regulations designed for THAT specific people in that time and place....
The NEW Testament, aka, "New Covenant" is provided for TODAY's time and place......
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What I think a lot of people fail to see is that there are two versions of God in the Bible. In the Old Testament, it was mostly about the hard, heavy, vengeful God. He was all about His chosen and to Hell with the rest of the world (in less elegant terms). But, the God of the New Testament is about love, forgiveness, not judging others, taking a new path to saving as many people who wish to be saved.
What youre're failing to communicate is that it's not neccessarly about a vengeful God or a forgiving God......it's not a matter of either or, HE'S BOTH.....
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A Christian is NOT suppose to judge. But,
Big mistake here too....your, "But," canceled out what should of been your shining moment.
Christians, TRUE Christian should Judge. Always.
In fact, I do most of my Judging while I'm at Church.....for real!
Once you get into the Word of God, and the Word of God gets into you, you will always be compelled to "nit-pick" the opinion of others....
Does this mean I would stone my daughter?
No, I wouldn't. I would love her just as I do now, I would hold her when she's confesses to me that she made a mistake, (at least I would hope she'd confess to me).....I would hug her.....pray with her.....
THEN....I might "stone" her.....afterwards, I might throw rocks at her until she dies from it......
Thats so weird because if everything in the bible is true and the commandment of god, a christian would know that judging isn't their job or their place.
Thats so weird because if everything in the bible is true and the commandment of god, a christian would know that judging isn't their job or their place.
Again, don't take, "Thou shalt not judge, lest be judged yourself" out of context.....
That's the WHOLE crux here.
Yes, we should judge, otherwise how would we KNOW where we stand at all??
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