What if the idea of hell is a scare tactic to keep people on their toes? We have to at least consider this possibility since nobody has died and come back to talk about their experiences.
Science will never be able to prove that there is a hell in the afterlife. I can see why the doctrine of hell appeals to our need to feel like justice will come for those who get away with their crimes in this life.
Afterall there are many serial killers and psychopaths throughout history who have gotten away with their crimes and were never brought to justice on this earth such as Hitler.
What if the doctrine of hell was invented just because we cannot accept that life is not fair? Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people.
We know that the virginia tech shooter got away with his massacre in this life. Is it possible that he's not in hell today? Is it possible that he's in heaven?
What if an apparition of the shooter appeared at that school? It could happen. People claim to see apparitions all the time on unsolved mysteries. The cops couldn't do anything about it because he's out of their jurisdiction and no longer a part of this physical world.
Is it possible that his spirit is roaming the earth and that he laughed his guts out as NBC news was giving him attention by broadcasting his confession videos? What if he's laughing at all the pain he sees the survivors going through?
Or what if when he died he just died and there is no conscious existence beyond the grave? What if religion was just made up to give us hope that one day we will all live in a world where everything is fair and all wrongs will be made right? What if hitler is not suffering for the consequences of his actions in this life? There is no evidence that he is.
As for me I don't believe in hell because I have seen no evidence of it. I see no evidence that I'm going to be judged in the afterlife for what I've done here. I live my life as if this is all there is.
I don't think anybody can say for sure that our actions have consequences to our souls in the afterlife. It's fun to speculate about it but we just don't know. All I know is that my actions have consequences in this life. Suicide is the only action that has no consequences.
The afterlife will always be a mystery until it's our time to pass away. I don't particularly believe anyone's near death experience testimony of spending 90 minutes in heaven or 23 minutes in hell. I'd have to wait & see it for myself before believing.
If hell really does exist then why doesn't God give all his creation a bird's eye view of it? This way we will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a hell and we are not just taking someone else's word for it?
If hell was real then I think God would have presented evidence of its existence in such a way that it would remove all doubt from our minds and therefore we could make an informed decision about how to conduct our lives.
Christians say that God doesn't have to prove anything to me. Well if that's true then the only conclusion I can come to is that their God likes to play mind games with us.
Last edited by barefoot880; 13th April 2008 at 11:00 PM.
That's the funny thing about gods: they don't particularly feel the need to show themselves because one mortal needs reassurance. Ask the wrong one and your life can get interesting fast, in the Chinese proverb sense. (I keep a healthy distance from Loki these days...)
I deal with the question of the Christian god by reminding myself that, if He really designed me, then He must have had some idea how I'd turn out. He wouldn't have given me this mind, these thoughts, this heart, and these lovely divinatory talents if He didn't mean for me to use them all.
Religion's a convoluted beast. Sometimes the only way to cope is to twist your mind alongside it.
What if the idea of hell is a scare tactic to keep people on their toes? We have to at least consider this possibility since nobody has died and come back to talk about their experiences.
Science will never be able to prove that there is a hell in the afterlife. I can see why the doctrine of hell appeals to our need to feel like justice will come for those who get away with their crimes in this life.
Afterall there are many serial killers and psychopaths throughout history who have gotten away with their crimes and were never brought to justice on this earth such as Hitler.
What if the doctrine of hell was invented just because we cannot accept that life is not fair? Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people.
We know that the virginia tech shooter got away with his massacre in this life. Is it possible that he's not in hell today? Is it possible that he's in heaven?
What if an apparition of the shooter appeared at that school? It could happen. People claim to see apparitions all the time on unsolved mysteries. The cops couldn't do anything about it because he's out of their jurisdiction and no longer a part of this physical world.
Is it possible that his spirit is roaming the earth and that he laughed his guts out as NBC news was giving him attention by broadcasting his confession videos? What if he's laughing at all the pain he sees the survivors going through?
Or what if when he died he just died and there is no conscious existence beyond the grave? What if religion was just made up to give us hope that one day we will all live in a world where everything is fair and all wrongs will be made right? What if hitler is not suffering for the consequences of his actions in this life? There is no evidence that he is.
As for me I don't believe in hell because I have seen no evidence of it. I see no evidence that I'm going to be judged in the afterlife for what I've done here. I live my life as if this is all there is.
I don't think anybody can say for sure that our actions have consequences to our souls in the afterlife. It's fun to speculate about it but we just don't know. All I know is that my actions have consequences in this life. Suicide is the only action that has no consequences.
The afterlife will always be a mystery until it's our time to pass away. I don't particularly believe anyone's near death experience testimony of spending 90 minutes in heaven or 23 minutes in hell. I'd have to wait & see it for myself before believing.
If hell really does exist then why doesn't God give all his creation a bird's eye view of it? This way we will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is a hell and we are not just taking someone else's word for it?
If hell was real then I think God would have presented evidence of its existence in such a way that it would remove all doubt from our minds and therefore we could make an informed decision about how to conduct our lives.
Christians say that God doesn't have to prove anything to me. Well if that's true then the only conclusion I can come to is that their God likes to play mind games with us.
For someone who doesn't believe in God, why concern yourself with the prescepts of his teachings? If it isn't of consequence to you, why bother? The concept of Allah has nothing to do with my belief system, so I don't bother to worry about anything that Islam offers. Christianity nor other religions, by your own admission mean nothing to you. Why would you spend so much time and energy in something that doesn't hold any meaning for you?
Are you questions only meant to anger, illicit confrontation or are they of genuine curiousity? Are you looking for mature debate, or an oppertunity to bash someone else's faith?
For someone who doesn't believe in God, why concern yourself with the prescepts of his teachings? If it isn't of consequence to you, why bother? The concept of Allah has nothing to do with my belief system, so I don't bother to worry about anything that Islam offers. Christianity nor other religions, by your own admission mean nothing to you. Why would you spend so much time and energy in something that doesn't hold any meaning for you?
Are you questions only meant to anger, illicit confrontation or are they of genuine curiousity? Are you looking for mature debate, or an oppertunity to bash someone else's faith?
Its pretty much imposible to talk about whether or not you believe in hell, and who you think is going there with out bashing other peoples faiths. I mean if your christian, you might believe your going to heaven while every one else is going to hell. thats just part of the religion. and if you don't believe in the religion its like telling the people who do believe in the religion they are just fantasy people, no different then people who read Harry potter or something but actualy believe in it.
What if the idea of hell is a scare tactic to keep people on their toes? We have to at least consider this possibility since nobody has died and come back to talk about their experiences.
I fully expect some people to be punished for their actions in this life by spending eternity in the fires of hell.
If God doesn't exist, then I would regret not having dealt with those persons myself. However, if God doesn't exist, I won't even get the chance to regret it because I will simply be dead. Either way, I will have no regrets about having faith.
Its pretty much imposible to talk about whether or not you believe in hell, and who you think is going there with out bashing other peoples faiths. I mean if your christian, you might believe your going to heaven while every one else is going to hell. thats just part of the religion. and if you don't believe in the religion its like telling the people who do believe in the religion they are just fantasy people, no different then people who read Harry potter or something but actualy believe in it.
But a true Christian doesn't believe "everyone" else is going to hell. I don't know that, it isn't for me to know that. NOT saying that there will be people who go, but how in the world would I know who it is?
A pastor made this statement in one of his sermons a long time ago and I have kept this in mind ever since...
"It is better to live a life believing there is a God, dying and finding out there is no God than it is to live a life believing there is no God and dying and finding out there is a God."
Yes, I am a Christian and I am going to be honest, sometimes it does suck denying my base nature. I want to be out there screwing every woman willing to spread her legs. I want to get all I can get because I want it. I want to curse out a person who curse me out. I want to get revenenge on those who hurt me. And I want to hate everyone who ever did me wrong or someone else I consider innocent wrong. But, it is the same concept as to why most people try to live law abiding lives. THE PUNISHMENT IS NOT ALWAY WORTH THE PLEASURE!
Can you imagine if no one were held accountable for abuses, rapes, murders, thievery, or other acts they deny another the same peace and joy of living? Can you imagine being a slave because someone stronger than you decides they want to lord over you and make you do his or her dirty work while they sit back and enjoy themselves? Can you imagine a man who decides he wants to have sex with a female important to you in your life and because he has the free will and no accountability for his exercise of that free will, takes your beloved female relation, has his way with her, and then decide he wants to take her life after such an insult? Just like the laws are here to hold people accountable for using their freedoms to hurt someone else for the pleasure of it or through not thinking about their actions. To make them think about others but themselves and to help people live together with some relative peace and enjoyment in living...How much so you think is different with God?
A pastor made this statement in one of his sermons a long time ago and I have kept this in mind ever since...
"It is better to live a life believing there is a God, dying and finding out there is no God than it is to live a life believing there is no God and dying and finding out there is a God."
Yes, I am a Christian and I am going to be honest, sometimes it does suck denying my base nature. I want to be out there screwing every woman willing to spread her legs. I want to get all I can get because I want it. I want to curse out a person who curse me out. I want to get revenenge on those who hurt me. And I want to hate everyone who ever did me wrong or someone else I consider innocent wrong. But, it is the same concept as to why most people try to live law abiding lives. THE PUNISHMENT IS NOT ALWAY WORTH THE PLEASURE!
Can you imagine if no one were held accountable for abuses, rapes, murders, thievery, or other acts they deny another the same peace and joy of living? Can you imagine being a slave because someone stronger than you decides they want to lord over you and make you do his or her dirty work while they sit back and enjoy themselves? Can you imagine a man who decides he wants to have sex with a female important to you in your life and because he has the free will and no accountability for his exercise of that free will, takes your beloved female relation, has his way with her, and then decide he wants to take her life after such an insult? Just like the laws are here to hold people accountable for using their freedoms to hurt someone else for the pleasure of it or through not thinking about their actions. To make them think about others but themselves and to help people live together with some relative peace and enjoyment in living...How much so you think is different with God?
If hell was real then I think God would have presented evidence of its existence in such a way that it would remove all doubt from our minds and therefore we could make an informed decision about how to conduct our lives.
Look at it this way.....you child walks up to a hot stove and you tell your child, "Don't touch, you'll burn yourself" but the child doesn't listen and does so anyway.....he/she is physically stricken....yes?
How much better off would that child of been if he/she would've listened and didn't have to suffer?
If it is your wish to experience hell just to avoid it, I'm sorry to tell you but hell is a one way ticket....
"It is better to live a life believing there is a God, dying and finding out there is no God than it is to live a life believing there is no God and dying and finding out there is a God."
Only problem with that argument is that you either believe or you don't. It's a good argument if someone is on the fence, as it were. You can't really just choose to disbelieve/believe based on possible consequences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark-N-Romantic
Yes, I am a Christian and I am going to be honest, sometimes it does suck denying my base nature. I want to be out there screwing every woman willing to spread her legs. I want to get all I can get because I want it. I want to curse out a person who curse me out. I want to get revenenge on those who hurt me. And I want to hate everyone who ever did me wrong or someone else I consider innocent wrong. But, it is the same concept as to why most people try to live law abiding lives. THE PUNISHMENT IS NOT ALWAY WORTH THE PLEASURE!
I hear this argument a lot, and it scares the crap out of me. I am an agnostic atheist, I don't do things like that because I wouldn't want to hurt other people. Sure, sometimes I screw up(we're all human), but I try to make amends if I do. I try to be a good person for no other reason than I want to be a good person. I guess I'm a follower of the ethic of reciprocity(AKA the golden rule). The idea that there is a whole mess of people out there who are ONLY not doing violent and cruel things because they fear punishment REALLY frightens me. And makes me kind of glad that those people have a religion to scare them into NOT doing it....
hell is your soul trying to exist in a perpetual absence of God. It burns like fire and brimstone, so to speak, because it's that painful.
a scare tactic is to suggest to my harpy of a sister that the executors of my father's estate are seriously considering redistributing her share of the estate to those people who have willingly cared for our daddy when she's too damned selfish to do so of her own volition.
if she chooses to sit on her *ss and let others do the work, then all she's out is a bit of money, which can be recouped in other ways; spiritually speaking, your soul can't be recouped once you've committed yourself to hell and damnation.
__________________ "Walking in the Lord's footsteps, our own lives become a journey of hope." – Pope Benedict XVI
A pastor made this statement in one of his sermons a long time ago and I have kept this in mind ever since...
"It is better to live a life believing there is a God, dying and finding out there is no God than it is to live a life believing there is no God and dying and finding out there is a God."
Pascal's Wager, and it is fallacious reasoing. Here's why:
The above suggests that there is only ONE god, when clearly there are many religions, and many gods. They all cannot be right, but they can all be wrong.
If one chooses one over the other (as ay believer clearly does), then you have the possibility of making the wrong choice. Since there are Muslims, Hindus, and Christians, we can surmise that some religious people are making the wrong choice.
So, let's say you live your life as if there is a god, and that god uses Hell to punish people. You follow the rules of this god in hopes of earning your way into Heaven. You die, and you're wrong. You have wasted the only life you are ever going to get, living in fear and punishing yourself psychologically for things that part of your nature.
You can believe in a god or gods and STILL be wrong and STILL earn everlasting torment.
Or, you can use reason to determine what is right, you can treat others how you want to be treated, acknowledge your mistakes and endeavor not to repeat them and do whatever you can to be as happy as you can as often as you can. And if, in the improbable case that there is a god or god, and he/she/it/they ask you why you didn't believe, you can honestly answer, "Not enough evidence." At least your life will not have been wasted.
Or, you can use reason to determine what is right, you can treat others how you want to be treated, acknowledge your mistakes and endeavor not to repeat them and do whatever you can to be as happy as you can as often as you can.
hmmm.....sounds just like.....well......almost just like the GOSPEL OF CHRIST......
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