Religious and cultural differences

[reenum]

My GF and I have now been going out for almost 10 months. We're in love and care deeply for each other. We're already talking about marriage. However, things are complicating our long term future.

 

She is Catholic and I'm not religious. She's deeply religious and wants to raise the kids Catholic. I have no problem with this at all. But, she feels that in order to raise the kids Catholic, both parents must be 100% behind it. What she means by this is that she would like me to go to church with her. I am not Christian in the least and have no plans of converting.

 

My GF's rationale is as follows: If she goes to church and I don't, the kids will ask why dad doesn't go to church. This might lead them to religious confusion.

 

Another problem is that our cultures are not remotely similar. I'm from Asia, and she has an American dad and Mexican mom. She is worried that she will be shut out from my culture.

 

Finally, she asked me what we have in common. She says we don't have religion or culture in common. This concerns her as to what sort of an identity our future kids might have.

 

I deeply love this girl, and want to make it work, but she has stated the options as follows:

 

1. She leaves her religion and culture behind, leading to possible resentment of me.

2. I go to church with her and the kids, leading to resentment from me.

3. We break up.

 

I don't want to break up, but also don't know how to resolve this situation so we can move forward. Any suggestions?

[Lucasarts]

Okay

 

This is a tough situation. Religion should not dictate a relationship (unless its a custom accepted by both parties) because the two people should be accepting of their customs, beliefs, opinions, and cultures (its how a relationship works and succeeds). But this is how I personally feel, and I wouldn't get myself involved with a girl who feels the need for me to change in order to better fit her ideal notion of a family and lifestyle (plus if you do convert, you go against everything you believe in yourself, which is not in her religion). Also, why is she so worried about being shut out from your culture, if its so bad, wouldn't they shut you out as well for choosing to be with her and not someone Asian as well?

 

She's thinking of her children before thinking of you? I mean thats good and all, but you guys arent married, you don't know how the married life is going to work out, and jumping to having kids is a pretty big commitment right there. Obviously you need to work out the issues you have with each other before working out the issues of having kids and raising them right. If she is so serious about having the perfect family, she needs to make sure that she won't be the reason for driving away the father.

 

You guys just really need to talk this through and honestly find the goods and bads of this relationship and how it will affect you throughout the rest of your lives. You have to ask her questions about why her religion is important for the children, yet she never had a problem with you not being of the same religion while you guys were together. Why the sudden change? And you know religion doesn't always mold the perfect child, its the parenting and responsibilities and habits instilled into them.

[carrotgirl]

How long have you been talking about getting married?

Who else (other than the two of you) knows you're talking about getting married?

 

Carrot

[alphamale]

This might lead them to religious confusion.

most of us are confused about religion

[Storyrider]

most of us are confused about religion

 

Hi, alpha!

 

OP, It is positive that you're both communicating. My H is Catholic and I'm Jewish. We've been able to work through a lot, but we still have some problems we're at a standstill about.

 

You should realize that her feelings about her religion will probably only grow stronger as she gets older, has kids.

 

Go to church with her now and see what it will be like. Ask each other lots of questions. How will the wedding ceremony be? Baptisms for kids? What about birth control? etc. etc.

[reenum]

How long have you been talking about getting married?

Who else (other than the two of you) knows you're talking about getting married?

 

Carrot

 

We've been talking about it for about 5 months now.

[reenum]

My parents and her mom also know we've been discussing marriage.

[malaclypse]

I deeply love this girl, and want to make it work, but she has stated the options as follows:

 

1. She leaves her religion and culture behind, leading to possible resentment of me.

2. I go to church with her and the kids, leading to resentment from me.

3. We break up.

 

I don't want to break up, but also don't know how to resolve this situation so we can move forward. Any suggestions?

 

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but if you are not important enough for her to even try to find a compromise, she's probably not worth your time.

 

Find a girl that really respects you and doesn't value her 'imaginary friends' higher than you.

[Storyrider]

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but if you are not important enough for her to even try to find a compromise, she's probably not worth your time.

 

Find a girl that really respects you and doesn't value her 'imaginary friends' higher than you.

That is really not helpful. In the same breath you talk about his GF not respecting him and then make a completely disrespectful comment about her beliefs.

[malaclypse]

That is really not helpful. In the same breath you talk about his GF not respecting him and then make a completely disrespectful comment about her beliefs.

 

Oh, I wasn't aware there's some kind of religious censorship on this board that forces me to accept anyone's beliefs as true...

 

 

The three options she offered are a joke. Come on, it's obvious that 1. and 2. are not going to work out, and both of them seem to accept it. So essentially she said "I want to break up with you because you are not catholic.".

 

I answered to that, and my answer is still "move on".

 

Yes, I could have used more tact, but then again, sometimes honesty is more helpful than political correctness.

[Storyrider]

Oh, I wasn't aware there's some kind of religious censorship on this board that forces me to accept anyone's beliefs as true...

 

 

The three options she offered are a joke. Come on, it's obvious that 1. and 2. are not going to work out, and both of them seem to accept it. So essentially she said "I want to break up with you because you are not catholic.".

 

I answered to that, and my answer is still "move on".

 

Yes, I could have used more tact, but then again, sometimes honesty is more helpful than political correctness.

I would defend your right to voice any opinion whatsoever. In fact, you may be absolutely right that he should move on.

 

It was the "imaginary friends" comment that was not constructive. Injecting your disdain for religion into the discussion will do nothing to encourage dialogue.

[StartingOver07]

It's all very well and good to adopt an attitude of "separate but equal" when it comes to the two adults in a relationship. It's fairly easy for Person A to be Catholic and Person B to be Something Else as long as there is mutual understanding and respect.

 

But.

 

Once you bring kids in to the picture it becomes much more complicated. Your gf is right to surface this concern if you two are considering marriage. And I don't think it is a matter of putting kids before you but that she is realistic enough to be able to look down the road and imagine the types of issues that may arise. How will you feel about things such as baptimism, religious training/education, celebrating Christian holidays, imparting religiously-based morality, etc., etc.? Just as it is important to be on the same page about bedtimes, eating habits, discipline styles, dating age, etc., it will be a big help to be on the same page about religion.

 

If you and your gf are serious about marriage, I 'd recommend that you go for pre-marital counseling. Some churches require this (the Catholic Church is one) and it is a good way to explore some of these issues in a guided format.

[malaclypse]

It was the "imaginary friends" comment that was not constructive. Injecting your disdain for religion into the discussion will do nothing to encourage dialogue.

 

Point taken.

 

I have to say though that I do not hold disdain for christianity, or any religion, but I really don't like people who cannot think outside of their mental blinders. And especially in this case, i think love should be stronger than that.

[vivrantflo]

You may not believe in Christianity, but one of the requirements of our faith is that we marry those that have the same beliefs as ourselves.

 

Yes, we are also taught to love everyone, but when it comes to marriage, you become one flesh... And if she marries him, she will risk falling into "option A" which is the worse case scenerio for a Christian.

 

According to the Christian faith, they should not be married. So he should move on, cause there isnt much compromise on either end.

[Moose]

According to the Christian faith, they should not be married. So he should move on, cause there isnt much compromise on either end

eh, hem....

 

The passage in 2 Cor., 6:14, 'Be not unequally yoked together with unbelievers,' does not seem to refer directly to marriage. Indirectly, however, it does.....

 

This doesn't mean that Christians can't marry non-Christians. If that were true, then 1 Peter 3:1 wouldn't need to be in the Scriptures, 'Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

 

God could very well be using this union as a means to save whomever is lost.

 

Furthermore, the OP's fiance' needs to understand that their children will one day need to make their OWN decisions on whether or not THEY choose to be Catholic, Baptist, Jewish......or what have you......

 

Finally, the Husband is to be the Spiritual Leader of the household. If she's a believer, she should already know this......

 

If she's not willing to allow him to hold the reigns in that respect, she should seek another mate.....

[vivrantflo]

I think you need to read 2 Corinthians chapter 6 verses 14 and 15 again..

 

"Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?"

 

Yeah, witness dating may work in some cases, but not in all.. and especially when one partner has no interest in converting.

 

Besides, he should want to convert for his own convictions, and not because of a woman.. am I correct?

 

As Christians we shouldn't compromise God's Word just to fit our own desires...while jeopardizing our Christian walk. That's a huge risk.

[Moose]

I think you need to read 2 Corinthians chapter 6 verses 14 and 15 again..

 

"Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?"

 

Yeah, witness dating may work in some cases, but not in all.. and especially when one partner has no interest in converting.

 

Besides, he should want to convert for his own convictions, and not because of a woman.. am I correct?

 

As Christians we shouldn't compromise God's Word just to fit our own desires...while jeopardizing our Christian walk. That's a huge risk.

No need for me to. I know what it says, and who it's being said to. And I also consider the time in which it was said.

 

The Scripture you so kindly told me I should re-read doesn't even address marriage specifically, it's directed to direct opposites of nature itself.

 

These two aren't in direct opposition. As you recall, he's even said it doesn't matter to him whether or not she attends Church, or even if their future offspring attends Church.

 

For the Scripture that we are referring to to apply in this situation, he would have to be 100% against her, or his offspring to be, "religious" or to even attend a Church .

 

Now if she wants to commit her entire life to the Church, then yes, she shouldn't marry a non believer, but I don't think that is the case here, otherwise she wouldn't even be dating this man.

[vivrantflo]

I see your point.. thank you for your clarification!

[audrey88]

reenum, I grew up in what i would call an inter-religious household.

 

My father is Jewish and my mother is Catholic.

My parents exposed us to both of their religions and let us choose which one we believed in. When I was younger, my mother dragged us (the kids) to church every sunday without my father. Interestingly enough, I was extremely Catholic ever since I could remember. There's a picture of me carrying around a Bible and holding a rosary when I was about 4. It was simply what I believed and it didn't matter that my father did not go to church with us.

 

Anyway, I remember being confused, not about why my father didn't attend church with us, but about why he didn't believe in Jesus. We would have conversations about it, and it was a hard thing for me to wrap my brain around as a child. Eventually, I came to understand it.

 

Today, I feel really lucky to grow up in the household that I did. It's made me a more open and tolerant person. I'm more understanding of other people's religious beliefs and view them every bit as valid as my own because this was something I had to learn to do as a child. However, I was never confused about was my religious beliefs. I always knew that I was Catholic, and it didn't matter what my father believed.

 

I don't know if that helps at all, just thought I would share my experience. Perhaps if you share it with your girlfriend, she'll have a slightly different perspective on the whole religion issue.

Edited January 22, 2008 by audrey88

[quankanne]

just a little addendum to what Audrey has posted:

 

in my opinion, and from personal observation, a mixed-religious couple can make it work if they are on the same page and solidly support each other on how to raise the kids spiritually even if one of the partners isn't observing that particular faith. You just have to do what's necessary to make it work.

 

a couple of weeks ago, as part of a work assignment, I went to the student Mass at the local Catholic elementary school. I wasn't surprised to see all the rugrats in attendence, because it was their liturgy, after all, but I was happily surprised to note the number of parents in the pews with them. Later, I'd asked the principal about that, and she said the truly surprising thing was that those adults attending included a number of non-Catholic parents. The student body is about 15 percent non-Catholic, kids of parents who heard about the school's excellent program. And because those parents are so staunch in their belief that their kids deserve the best, it wasn't out of the question for them to also go to Mass with the kids.

 

some of the parents eventually do come into the Church through the rite of Christian Initiation, but that's not the important thing: The important thing is that despite their differences of belief, the parents were fully committed to supporting what their kids were doing and were willing to be part of that experience whenever possible.

 

if neither of you are not comfortable with the idea of converting, there's still a whole lot of room for respecting each other's personal belief system AND for throwing your weight behind your child as he or she is raised in a particular faith. Heck, I know cradle Catholics who don't darken the doorstep unless it's a baptism, marriage or funeral of a family member, so in theory, it's not much different than what you and your GF face.

 

talk to her, let her know what you feel comfortable doing. In my home, DH will come to Christmas Mass, attend some weddings and baptisms, and that's our compromise. If we'd have had kids, he was fully willing to raise them Catholic (though I think it was because he wanted me left in charge of faith formation, and not him!), so I know he'd have been supportive of them at their baptisms, first Communion, confirmation, etc. because those were hallmark occasions in the kids' lives.

 

there's a solution out there that both of you can live comfortably with, and build upon from there – it's not so cut and dry that you've both got to lose if one doesn't agree with the other!

[Storyrider]

Finally, the Husband is to be the Spiritual Leader of the household. If she's a believer, she should already know this......

 

I just posted about this on an unrelated thread. My H believes the same and is the Christian believer in our family. But how would this work, Moose, if the man is non-spiritual?

 

Now if she wants to commit her entire life to the Church, then yes, she shouldn't marry a non believer, but I don't think that is the case here, otherwise she wouldn't even be dating this man.

 

What do you mean by dedicate her entire life? I could say that about my H and he chose to date and marry me. I am not exactly sure why he didn't question himself more about it, except that he prayed about it and felt it was what God wanted him to do.

 

His friends asked him whether he had thought it through. They thought it odd. So did my friends, but all of them were completely secular. I should ask him whether he thinks we are unequally yoked.

 

Audrey88, I wonder how your father felt all those years as you devoted yourself to something he could only watch from the sidelines. Did he feel like the odd person out? I'm not being critical. It is just that I am the female equivalent of your dad in my family.

[audrey88]

Audrey88, I wonder how your father felt all those years as you devoted yourself to something he could only watch from the sidelines. Did he feel like the odd person out? I'm not being critical. It is just that I am the female equivalent of your dad in my family.

 

I don't think he felt like the odd person out, and I don't think he was bannished to the sidelines. In fact, when he saw how important it was to me, I remember him making an effort to take as much of a part in it as his religious beliefs would allow. He was there at my baptism, confirmation, first communion. He even attended church on what we call the high holidays in my family. He attended church with us on christmas and easter, and I went to temple with him and my Jewish brother on Yom Kippur and Roshashana (spelling?). Could he have stayed on the sidelines? Probably... he had the ultimate excuse in that it wasn't his religion. But, it wasn't about the religion, it was about him wanting being there for the things that were important to me. I'm pretty sure that he didn't enjoy attending my ballet recitals either, but he did because I would have been devastated if he wasn't there.

 

Besides, most religions promote the same set of moral beliefs, and isn't that what a big part of religion is? Teaching you how to be a good person. Don't lie, don't cheat, don't steal. He was just as able to teach me those things as my mother, but he also got to teach me something that my mother never could. That different isn't necessarily bad, and you can't convert everyone. So you might as well love and accept someone for who they are and not what you want to change them to be.

 

I think the main point is to integrate your family on the special days. You spend holidays and growing milestones together. My entire family celebrated every holiday together (Jewish and Catholic). Sure my dad put a Star of David on top of the Christmas tree and called it a Chanuka bush.... but whatever works for him:D

 

An inter-religious family can be a tricky thing, but it can work if you talk about it before you get married and have children. Decide what you're willing to do for the other person, and know that if you have children you'll probably want to be more involved if your children are that religion simply because you'll want to be there for them.

 

Perhaps I'm odd, but even though I am very religious, the religion of my significant other does not matter to me. As far as I'm concerned, we can come to an agreement and respect each other's beliefs if we love each other enough.

[Storyrider]

Audrey, this is all heartening to hear. My kids are Jewish/Catholic like you and being raised Catholic, like you. I also attended baptisms and first communion. I don't go to Mass very often, though. Less and less as the years go on, and this year I feel especially loathe to go, but it has nothing to do with my kids.

 

My younger daughter attends a Jewish preschool and my older daughter occasionally comes with me on the high holidays. We always celebrate Passover and Hanukkah as a family.

[Lovelybird]

God to us is very real, like a loving father in real life, just God is more perfect and powerful and more loving. Basically if she is very religious, God would be her center of life, any decision her make may have God's influence in them, like raise kids, how to approach life, how to approach a certain issue....if you are married, you are supposed to be one flesh, and spiritual bond is a too much strong bond to be ignored. I won't say two persons who has different religions won't make it, just it would take much to work out than the couple who has same belief who has strong bond through spirituality through loving same Lord. A priest said it beautifully when two persons make love, actually it is three to make it, and God is the third who provide perfect love river, it never drys out.

 

anyway, how do you know after you know about her religion you will resent? it is like you reject a wonderful package without even looking into it. when you say love someone, won't you love the ONE who made her in the first place and the ONE is major part of her life?

 

Can you put down your pride 'If I go to church, then that means she has higher power than me', and seriously look into what she believes? it is really not for her sake, but for your own sake. maybe God is using this union to bring you to himself, which is an amazing grace towards you.

 

I am an Asian myself, I was saved in my early 20"s, I am attracted by western guy and cultures, now I am thinking of it as God is trying to reach to me through many many ways.

[audrey88]

Storyrider,

 

My father actually never attended mass except for Christmas and Easter. So, that's twice a year. I wouldn't, and never did, expect him to attend more than that... it's not his religion. On those two days, it was about spending the holiday as a family. If you hate mass, I would say that it is OK for you to skip it except for the holidays.

 

Just a question, do you feel like you are on the sidelines with your kids' religion? Perhaps if the whole family went to temple on the Jewish holidays. Afterall, you attend all the Catholic ones... it's only fair.