For the most part most of you here know my story, for those that don't it can be broken down very simply as (almost) the same old song and dance most OW will tell here. He told me the first time we hung out that he was married, unhappily-no physical or emotional connection to his W, only there for the kids, etc.- I didn't knowingly accept his invitation, but I did knowingly continue to see him. We have for the past two weeks not seen each other, which is odd, although we do still talk, IM, & text everyday. It's been mostly angry discussions (even on the IM).
Here's the deal about two weekends ago he was really really distant from me. If I did get a message or call from him it was hi & bye, no substance, no feeling, complete 180 from his usual enthusiam in our conversations. I kept pushing the issue but I kept getting "I'm just trying to give you some space, or, nothing's wrong just feeling blah"... Well it turns out that his W has been pressuring him into going to FL. so she can see her parents, because of her past he does not allow his children to be around her father(the catalyst of the abuse in her childhood). She asked if she reconsidered therapy, and started to heal would he ever change his mind, he said yes. Part of that recovery would involve them going to therapy together as well.
It took me 3 days of probing to get this information from him, he claims he didn't know how to tell me that he agreed to work on his marriage. I told him if he was serious I would disappear from his life...what could I say, we all deserve to be happy and he has always maintained he would never leave, if only for the kids, so I wished him and his family well and good luck and I told him that no matter what happened I would always be his friend (if only in spirit) and no hard feelings. I don't know if he really thought out what he said or what but I don't think he expected me to say that, maybe he expected me to fight him on it...I just don't know. He says to me well nothing has been done yet so let's wait and see(?) OKAY!! so now I'm thinking that he's thinking if they don't go to MC then we can remain in this same situation and only if they do, should we stop seeing each other... I flipped, I how am I supposed to take that???
There has not been a D-day for us and I doubt there ever will be, I asked him if in counseling he would admit to any of this, he said to the theapist yes, to his W, no. I told him the therapist would probably suggest he admit it in order to completely heal the M...he said he still wouldn't.
We fight all the time on the phone or on the IM mostly about our feelings and wanting to see each other but knowing we can't. So far no appointments have been made with a therapist and I think that's why we are at least still speaking. Today while arguing he said that things have to change in his M, that he can't go on like this any longer, and that made me even madder, I guess because it makes me think about what he thinking...does that mean he wants to work on things, does it mean he'll leave if they don't, I hate even thinking about any of this.
I've been reading here a lot lately and trying to peice together some advice to take as my own... but I realized I really needed to get it out of me. Sorry it's so long, but I feel a little better having written it all down.
I feel like a zombie, dead inside and just going through the motions.
Hello Kenzo, I know exactly how you feel. I know that numb exterior with the ocean of sorrow that plagues the inner most core of you and the never ending confusion and unanswered questions....ooooh I know it all to well. I'm sorry. :-(
I was like that for weeks on end, but unlike you I was strict NC I chose to do it the hard way and the most effective way (for me). Everything is so much clearer when time passes, when you regain your life again. Right now your life is still immersed in his, so I doubt you can be objective with yourself/situation you are in. But that's ok it's part of the phase you are in.
I'm not sure if you are looking for words of advice or simply wanting to let it all out, so either way we are here for you if you need to vent.
If I gather correctly it looks like he is saying he wants to change things in his marriage, unfortunately things will never change for him if he keeps you in the picture and you have to find the strength and innner conviction to to cut that out when you feel it's enough. In the meantime I suspect you will linger in limbo as so tends to happen. I know you don't want to hear that but no good change can come from your current situation, it's proven to stay as is for a long time to come if you let it.
__________________ Stupidity follows me, but I run much faster...
Hey TC- The thing is that he always wanted to change things in his marriage, he has tried several times in the past to make it work, IC, MC-which according to him she always gave up on...who knows anymore...
I know he can't have it "all" and in order for him to really try I can't be around him at all, for his sake and the sake of his M.
We are together a mere 8 months now but it seems like I've always known him and he has become a very hard habit to break. I know I need to take the high road here, he owes it to his family and himself to see if they can really work it out this time--I am not now nor will I ever be apart of that equation. My brain accepts that, my heart-not so much-we both know yet we hang on to these tiny little threads and I think we both justify that since we are not being physical, and we have no plans of seeing each other that talking on the phone and the IM isn't so bad...
I don't think the emotional attachment will ever go away for either of us even though it is highly unlikely that we will ever be together.
I know he can't have it "all" and in order for him to really try I can't be around him at all, for his sake and the sake of his M.
Sounds like he needs to realize this himself, if he's really serious about working on the marriage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenzo
I don't think the emotional attachment will ever go away for either of us even though it is highly unlikely that we will ever be together.
Does that mean it will always be an EA?
Well, it's different for each of you. For him, as long as you are not discovered, you are an "extra" - he's got everything within his marriage, including the ability to try to work on it to make it better, and a little extra on the side. More than one woman.
For you though, he's not a whole man, because he can't be with you completely. His availability to you, physically and emotionally, will always be subject to the constraints of his marriage. His marriage will come first, and you get only what is left over.
He gets 1-1/2 women, and you only get half a man.
It will "always be an EA" for as long as you accept this position in his life. He has to decide what to do about his marraige, but you are in control of what to do about your life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenzo
I feel like a zombie, dead inside and just going through the motions.
Are the benefits of this relationship, in its current form, worth this?
__________________ All that is now, All that is gone, All that's to come, and everything under the sun is in tune...
Hey TC- The thing is that he always wanted to change things in his marriage, he has tried several times in the past to make it work, IC, MC-which according to him she always gave up on...who knows anymore...
I know he can't have it "all" and in order for him to really try I can't be around him at all, for his sake and the sake of his M.
We are together a mere 8 months now but it seems like I've always known him and he has become a very hard habit to break. I know I need to take the high road here, he owes it to his family and himself to see if they can really work it out this time--I am not now nor will I ever be apart of that equation. My brain accepts that, my heart-not so much-we both know yet we hang on to these tiny little threads and I think we both justify that since we are not being physical, and we have no plans of seeing each other that talking on the phone and the IM isn't so bad...
I don't think the emotional attachment will ever go away for either of us even though it is highly unlikely that we will ever be together.
Does that mean it will always be an EA?
I know the feeling, the length of what you can share with a man emotionally in this type of situation, in such a short period of time can run very deep. What ever it is that he gets from you, in this case it may very well be the deep emotional connection, he is not getting from home at present and is getting other things he is not getting from you. So what happens is that you complete his every need. He gets his share of needs met at home and you finish to complete his every need outside of that even if there is no physical tie. He will tell you othrewise, he will make you believe he is suffering as much if not more than you but the reality is that the pain he feels is minimal to the amount of pleasure he gets from all his needs that are being met.
Which brings me to my next point, while it's quite noble of you to think of his family and his marriage and to let him "have a fair go and all that...." but what about you? What's fair for you? It doesn't matter if you step a side or not, if he doesn't want to work it out he won't you in the picture or not. BUT what I think you would benefit more from doing is thinking of yourself. Thinking of what you get from staying in this EA vs what you get from breaking the emotional addiction and gaining some realistic prespective:
1) If you stay like this, you have seen the proof, he is not going to make a move either way because he still has you for whatever needs he can have met with you.
2) If you break contact FOR YOU, you will gain some of your life back, you are lost in this triangle right now that is neither a rel exclusive to you nor is it an exclusive tie with one other person, you are tied to two people directly or inderectly and for as long as this is present you really don't have much with him other than moments. Realistically he is no good to you nor his W, now matter how real your connection seems.
3) If you continue on this path he will never feel what he is supposed to feel he will never decide what he wants because he will continue to want the best of both.
4) Breaking all contact is not easy, it hurts like hell and it's going to be a tremendous emotional shock, but like breaking any addiction it cannot be overcome unless you are willing to subject yourself to some inital pain for a long term gain.
5) What would you gain? The truth. A truth which no amount of advice here can answer for your particular situation. Ultimately what you are in search of and what we are all in search of when we are with someone else, is the truth. You want to know how he really feels, what he really feels and what his intentions are. If you cut him out and in time he decides his marriage is what he wants then you will be emotionally more prepared to deal with his decision, you will want the healthy outcome for you because you will be thinking with logic, not need. But if he decides he cannot live without you, you will also be prepared for that in a more rational way and you can do it right. Right now your emotions have the best of you, and leaving the future up to destiny in the path you are on is creating your own self fulfilled prophecy. You know he won't decide either way like this. He needs to feel you absense in every way even if it tears you up inside. He needs to get in tune with his rel with his W in every way, and for as long as you continue the tie, he is neither yours nor hers. If his marriage is dwindilling being apart from him will only make it more evident that he needs to get out. If it's not then why would you want to be a part of something that is only going to hurt you more in the long run?
No one has a crystal ball as to how things can turn out, but given your current pattern you can pretty much predict what will happen if you let things stay as they are, right now you hold the key to your immediate future if you are not prepared to make a significant change.
Wow you guys, just wow! Very profound and heartfelt advice...If you know anything about me you know I take everything I get here very personally so to both of you... my deepest gratitude for you replies!
The numbness I feel seems to only subside when I am talking with him, it is temporarily replaced by self-doubt, anger, bitterness, confusion, etc. etc.
It will take all that I am not to communicate with him, to break the routine we are in, it's almost like a security blanket knowing he's there even though every single time we've spoken over the past 2 or so weeks it's been nothing but constant heartache...I know I've said this before but I think I'm going crazy...
If he has told you that he will not leave his wife, then you should believe him. If they go to counseling the first thing the couselor will tell him to do to work on his marriage is to cut off contact from you.
You really need to be honest with yourself about your needs in a relationship. You say that you have been arguing about not being able to see each other. That tells me that this arrangement is no longer working for you. I think deep down you want a real relationship and that is not something he is willing to offer you.
Whether he goes to therapy with his wife or not I think you should take this opportunity to discover what you really want. You have every right to want more from the man that you love and if he is unable to fulfill your needs than maybe its time to move on.
I know it is alot easier said than done and I am not devaluing the feelings you have for him, but it sounds to me that if forced to choose, he would not choose you. You deserve some one that would always choose you.
Wow you guys, just wow! Very profound and heartfelt advice...If you know anything about me you know I take everything I get here very personally so to both of you... my deepest gratitude for you replies!
The numbness I feel seems to only subside when I am talking with him, it is temporarily replaced by self-doubt, anger, bitterness, confusion, etc. etc.
It will take all that I am not to communicate with him, to break the routine we are in, it's almost like a security blanket knowing he's there even though every single time we've spoken over the past 2 or so weeks it's been nothing but constant heartache...I know I've said this before but I think I'm going crazy...
Be careful not to isolate yourself. Its tempting to curl up in a ball and hide from the world, but it will just allow you to dwell on the pain and emptiness.
This may sound completely insane, especially in your current state of mind, but my favorite medicine for a breaking heart is meeting a new boy. Not jumping into a relationship or into some one elses bed, but actually going on a no pressure date or just making a new male friend. It helps me break the communication cycle (i.e. texting, phone calls, IMing). When I have some one else to "chat" with it makes it less painful to not talk to man whose hurt me. I know it may sound like a stupid solution but its worked for me in the past. In fact it help me get through a painful break up not too long ago. Now I am over the guy that dumped me and I have a great new friend.
If this relationship ends, you need to find a way to define yourself with out him. Now is the time to start setting the building blocks.
The numbness I feel seems to only subside when I am talking with him, it is temporarily replaced by self-doubt, anger, bitterness, confusion, etc. etc.
It will take all that I am not to communicate with him, to break the routine we are in, it's almost like a security blanket knowing he's there even though every single time we've spoken over the past 2 or so weeks it's been nothing but constant heartache...I know I've said this before but I think I'm going crazy...
Direct's quote as well...so true.
Yup that all sounds about right, it's this momentary instant gratification for the lingering feelings of what you described above. The constant doubts that do the head in. You are so deep in the cycle if feels impossible to get out of because even the ill feelings start to feel normal after a whle. I still struggle with wanting to contact my guy but I don't and each week it becomes easier to snap out of the thoughts.
He still contacts me but I won't return his emails, told him to talk to men his D is on its way otherwise don't bother...I guess he chooses to omit the "when the divorce is on its way"because he insisist on contacting me having NOTHING to offer me. I reached my enough point, hopefully you will some day too.
Seems like you have had a stressful time with him for a month or so now. I know how hard that is and the toll it is taking on you. You have got to be tired of the roller coaster by now.
You never did try NC, right? (trying to remember). Think you are up to it? No IM, no email replies, no text replies, no phone calls?
I still think it may help here. It may help him go on and make a decision when your voice isn't around. It will just plain suck for you though, the hardest thing you probably have ever done.
You will have to find the strength somewhere to maintain no matter what. You can find some of it here but the rest will have to come from your environment. Find other people to fill your alone moments. Stay busy at work (and away from him). Do things so you aren't quiet and alone with your thoughts. That's when it gets the hardest...
__________________ The Yellow and the Blue have got to touch to make the Green
I stared at the ceiling most of the night thinking and crying and thinking and then it hit me that I had to change the routine, break the cycle. So I got up this morning no computer no coffee, took a shower and went right to work, forcing all temptation right out of my head, I got a jump on the day. By 9am I got the text-where was I?, was I ok? I held out for as long as I could, he was relentless...he won't let me break the cyle...I finally spoke to him on the IM around 11 and it ran the spectrum between anger and really bad fighting to pleading and some some really heartfelt things that I guess we needed to say.
He keeps saying that he needs to do this for me but its so hard for him to not speak to me...I don't know what to think, but I don't want him doing it for me, it seems like a cop out on his part. I want him to do it for himself, because it's wrong, because he owes it to his family to try and work it out, not for me...I take care of me-- no one else needs to claim responsibility for me--least of all him.
I kept asking him why he did this in the first place, standard response "I don't know", "I thought we were both adults, and we could handle it" What crap!!!
I said a lot of really mean things to him, a lot of digs against his W, choice in lifestyle, lack of living authentically, etc. The things I said should have pushed him over the edge...I thought if I can get him to the point where he hates me for the horrible things I have said to him then maybe NC won't be so hard because he won't want to talk to me at all. He still called me after work and it was just like always, like I hadn't said a thing.
I made it 5 hours this morning without talking to him...maybe tomorrow I can make it 6.
Does anyone think it's wise to ease out of the relationship? I am out of ideas here, or do I just rip the bandaid off? (Not sure if I am strong enough for that though) =(
Ripping the bandaid off is the only real good thing you can do for youserlf though you can't see that in the state you are in. But it's ok, I don't think making you feel pressured into doing it is the right way to go, it will bakfire bigtime. You have to be ready and you have to be convinced that it's the right thing to do for you. I would suggest steps, do it in steps until if feels right to go all the way.
You know the only real catalyst to ripping that bandaid is what you will feel, when the feelings of being short changed overcome any positive feelings you might have from keeping him in your life in any shape way or form, then only then will you be ready to take it on. It will still hurt but it will feel right. The pain you get from the type of rel. that keeps you guessing day in day out is really unsurmountable, you will feel that in time, unfortunately...it's when you reach your boilling point that it will give you the energy you need to just do it.
Please note: The suggestions and advice offered on this web site are opinions only and are not to be used in the place of professional psychological counseling or medical advice. If you or someone close to you is currently in crisis or in an emergency situation, contact your local law enforcement agency or emergency number.
). Do things so you aren't quiet and alone with your thoughts. That's when it gets the hardest...
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