He was rich.
Filthy rich.
Undeniably, enormously, unimaginably rich.
(Ok, I'm going to cut a long story short here.... Think 'Dallas' and then some....)
He was born into a Royal Family in the northenmost part of India, which is now Nepal.
His father, Suddhodana, was a monarch, and extremely powerful. He had so much land that you'd take a month to cross it...
When his son was born, (named Siddharta Gautama) soothsayers predicted he would be either a mighty fine warrior and great king - or a wandering mendicant, relying on the goodness of others.
Cripes!
Well, The king was having none of that!
From his earliest age, our Sid knew only the best - the very best - of ebverything. Good food, companions, an education, clothes, horses (think Ferraris - dozens of them. No, maybe more....) combat skills, diplomacy skills, wine, women and song - you name it, he had it in spades.
But as he grew older, he got wise to the fact that there was a limit to his kingdom. A concrete edge to just how far he could go. And he became curious, and wanted to learn more.
So like all teenagers, he pestered his parents until they gave in, and let him out of the palace walls, to see what lay beyond. But he had to be accompanied, and they figured, once he'd seen it all, then he'd know just how great it was to be a Prince, right?
Wrong.
On four consecutive visits to the outside world, with his charioteer, Channa, he saw: An old person, a sick person, a corpse - and finaly, a wandering monk.
On all of the first three occasions, he'd ask Channa -what the heck was going on? Who WERE these people? Normal human beings? And did this - age, sickness and death - happen to everyone?? Gedouttahere!! You're kidding!!
Nope, his companion confirmed. This is the way of Life. We're born, we age, we get old, we sicken, we die. Period. No exceptions. No matter how much money or power you have, you still end up this way.
Depressing, isn't it?
Well, yes, I can understand how it might be, at first glance. You can imagine how Sid felt! Everything he'd ever known, would evaporate before his eyes. all his fine clothes, jewellery, horses, mental and physical skills - Zip. Finito.
Holy Schmoley. Bummer, huh??
Mind you, there was still the fourth trip he was also thinking about. That guy in the weird robes, what was he up to?
Well, Channa explained, this guy was on a spiritual personal quest to find the meaning of life, and to find serenity amidst all of this 'Suffering'.
Keeping it brief, Sid decided to do likewise.
So he had fulfilled the prophesy then. He had become a widely-known, deeply respected and much-loved Prince, but he also decided to follow a life of sobriety and poverty.
Where would this lead....?
Tune in for the second instalment tomorrow - !!
__________________
Desire is Natural; Commitment is a Choice.
"Hatred never ceases through hatred, but hatred ceases by love alone. This is the ancient and eternal law."
"When someone is searching," said Siddhartha, "then it might easily
happen that the only thing his eyes still see is that what he searches
for, that he is unable to find anything, to let anything enter his mind,
because he always thinks of nothing but the object of his search,
because he has a goal, because he is obsessed by the goal. Searching
means: having a goal. But finding means: being free, being open, having
no goal. You, oh venerable one, are perhaps indeed a searcher, because,
striving for your goal, there are many things you don't see, which are
directly in front of your eyes."
_Herman Hesse, "Siddhartha"
Cool thread. I'm not Buddhist, per se, but I love the philosophy. Some might argue that Buddhism isn't a religion as it were, because it lacks a diety and creation story. Some call it...a philosophy about life. A framework, I guess.
I don't know.
__________________
Living is easy with eyes closed
misunderstanding all you see
Quinch: Thank you so much for the welcome. Nice to see you too...is your avatar really you, or are you just projecting a sexy image....? (BTW, I LOVE your signature...for some peverse reason....!!)
Blind-otter, Without wishing to get off-topic, 'cos' strictly speaking I'm in the middle of a great story here....
There's a link here to a thread responding to this very question...Religion or philosophy....? Read Post #2, which might help. I have always found it to be quite a good clarification. For my part, I refer to Buddhism as my 'calling', but that's just me....
Incidentally, the site is one on which I am a Moderator, and I go by the name of 'Federica'.... There's plenty of good information there to peruse...
....Siddharta was extremely shaken by his experiences in the big wide world, but he was also intensely intrigued by the monk…. So after much anguish and thought, Siddharta decided to steal away in the middle of the night, to pursue the same ideal as the monk – liberation from the suffering of Old Age, Sickness and Death.
Now, hang ten a moment.
By this time, he had a beautiful young wife and baby son – as well as all the rest of the fine trappings which go with a royal status, so let’s just try to put it into perspective, here.
Stop and think – start making a list of all the things you have in your possession: No, I DO mean everything, right down to the smallest writing pen, right up to the house, apartment, garden…your entire family, all your friends and acquaintances – everything. Your job, career, everything that goes with it, mobile ‘phone, e-mail address…. Clothes, shoes, jewellery, deodorant, perfume, underwear, you name it. Every single thing.
Now imagine that tonight, you are going to up and walk away from everything. You’re not taking a thing with you except the clothes you’re standing up in, and you’re going to leave on foot, and go….who knows where….?
This is astonishingly frightening, but actually, entirely liberating, too…. But can you imagine what your parents, friends, colleagues and spouse & children would say?
(Just as an aside, we are constantly being urged to buy this food, take up this bank account, have this car, get these clothes, pursue this education or career as a move towards financial or socio-economic security…to meet a mate, settle down, raise a family…. All things which would bring us a recognisable status in our community. But to state that you’re going to abandon all this for a life of voluntary deprivation and abstention will, by and large, chiefly bring derision, criticism and maybe even the condemnation of being irresponsible and selfish. Gandhi did this though, and so did Mother Teresa…. Nobody criticises them much though, do they….? But for “us” to do that?….well…it’s unheard of! Other people do that, not you!!)
And that’s precisely why Sid was moved to act the way he did. He left the court in the dead of night, with his charioteer, and on his favourite horse. He reached the confines of the realm, and chopped his hair off with his sword. Then he changed into more modest attire, and giving everything he owned back to his friend (who did try to convince him he was a raving loony) he set off on what was to be a six-year-long quest towards what we now refer to as “The Eightfold Path”.
During these years he met up and travelled with many different sages, and people on a similar quest. He even starved himself to near-death, as a means of gaining insight into the abandonment of everything material, but he realised, in his abject weakness and starvation, that this led nowhere except to hunger and unnecessary self-inflicted suffering. So he took what we now know is “The Middle way” or as Goldilocks came to find, the ‘Just Right’ way! Not too much, or in excess, not too little or going without for no good reason….
One night, he decided to take a seat under a variety of rubber plant tree, or ficus, now known as the Bodhi tree, and he vowed to not get up until he’d cracked the code. He stayed in meditation for a long time, and was even tempted by Mara, who sent him all the temptations of the world, including his voluptuous and stunning daughters to seduce and tempt him back into the realms of Illusion and Suffering.
Mara is a malicious ‘Deity’ but we can better visualise this image if we understand that this is a personification of all the tempting obstacles we have before us, all the time, preventing us from shedding the shackles of Greed, Hatred and Desire…..
However, Sid recognised these temptations for what they were…illusory, empty of ultimate lasting satisfaction, and distractions from what really mattered….so he touched the ground, to call the Earth as witness to his resolve, and as the morning star twinkled in the dawn, he became enlightened.
Whoosh! All illusion dropped away from his mind, and he just saw everything for what it was. And everything was – and is - the way it is, because it is the way it is.
He formulated what we call “The Four Noble Truths” – Noble, because there is nothing that can actually contradict them. Even with much discussion (and believe me, I have been through it, and I do love to yap…) ultimately, you can’t blow a hole in the Logic of them.
He found the original sages with whom he had travelled for a while, and although they had originally chosen to ignore him, because he had not deprived himself as they had, and actually looked relatively bonny and hale and hearty – shame on him!) they were converted pretty darned smartish by just the way he looked and behaved as he approached them, he gave the first sermon in Deer Park. On the Four Noble Truths, and The Eightfold Path.
Hi Geishawhelk, I thought I recognised you from somewhere. I haven't posted on the other site for a while (really ought to) but I do still look in from time to time. I've learned a lot there
Have a good day
Quinch (aka Windwalker)
PS. My avatar is Gene Hunt (Philip Glenister) from Life On Mars. I just think he's cool.
Some of this sounds very familiar to me, only like a few other things in this world I've stumbled upon... I didn't know it really had a name.
Last Summer I was under so much pressure that I couldn't handle anything else... my kids were with ther father so I dissapeared into nothingness, lol. I didn't tell anyone where I was going, I just bought a camper for $200, fixed it up and parked it somewhere quiet where I could think.
Yes, everyone thought I was nuts, people told me to stop running, that I couldn't hide from my problem, and in many ways they were right, but... it was a wonderful experience. I was actually able to just be alone and think. I didn't leave everything behind, but I left *most* of it.
I'll admit, I still snuck in a TV and a DVD player because even though I never watch them, the silence drives me crazy. I did bring my laptop, though I only use it for one thing, and that is my writing. I brought my dog, it was hard enough to live without my kids... but NOT my dog, I refused to even try.
I found it so refreshing in fact, that I am looking forward to doing it again this summer. I've been seriously considering just getting rid of all of my unnessecary junk, all most of it does it make it harder for me to clean house and I'm not the best at that as it is.
I think many of the things you have said crept into my consciousness long ago, when I was studying religions, and I just didn't realize it.
I am deeply intrigued by your conversation, please do keep sharing.
I only have one problem, I do still believe in God... and though I have been shedding many of my Christian trappings... this one still sticks with me strongly. Any other religion is a path away from God, and leads to... yeah...
Please do keep discussing it...
__________________
“To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell” Marquis De Sade
“What have you been reading, the gospel according to St. Bastard?” E. Izzard
A bit of counsel I found worked for me:
If you buy something new, replace, don't add. In other words, bring something new in, throw something old, out.
Gradually, I too am offloading so much extraneous junk. there's a lot to be said for minimalism. If you can load all you need into a camper, and it sustains you for the summer....then think of all the things back home you have done without, for all that time, and not missed.....and start getting rid of it! Car Boot or garage sales are wonderfully cleansing and liberating!!
"Have nothing in your home that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful."
Quote:
Originally Posted by boshemia
I only have one problem, I do still believe in God... and though I have been shedding many of my Christian trappings... this one still sticks with me strongly. Any other religion is a path away from God, and leads to... yeah...
Please stay comfortable with this. Don't view it as a 'problem', don't worry about it.
I switched from 40-plus years of Roman Catholicism, with a major involvement in the faith throughout, and of course, there were questions, guilt, anxieties...But It was more of a development, an 'evolutionary' stroll, rather than a REvolutionary transformation....But that's just me....
Leave it aside. things will resolve themselves as they will.
Incidentally, there is a guy called Jim Pym who is an active member of the Society of friends (The Quakers) and an ordained Zen Monk at one and the same time.
So don't go feeling or believing that at one point you will have to sit, divide and make a choice. Relax. Things will come as they come.
With much Metta,
LOL, that's exaclty what I thought. I was able to survive a whole summer in a camper with about 1/100th of the stuff i left behind. I'm a junk collector, I never throw anything away because "I might need it" and sometimes just because someone gave it to me and I feel like it's rude to get rid of it.
When we moved into out new home I only unpacked what we needed when we needed it as an experiment. Half of the garage is stacked with boxes I have yet to find a reason to unpack. We are planning on moving again this summer, and I'm thinking about just donating those boxes sight unseen, then doing the same thing in the other house.
Please stay comfortable with this. Don't view it as a 'problem', don't worry about it.
I switched from 40-plus years of Roman Catholicism, with a major involvement in the faith throughout, and of course, there were questions, guilt, anxieties...But It was more of a development, an 'evolutionary' stroll, rather than a REvolutionary transformation....But that's just me....
Actually that's exactly what makes me uncomfortable. I have finally started questioning everything I've been taught... and I find very little about Christianity that even makes sense to me anymore.
I feel like the only reason I still identify myself as Christian anymore is because I am supposed to. More and more it just doesn't feel right. I'm not sure what is right just yet, just that I am still seeking that place where I feel like what I am doing is not only right for me, but right for the world as well if that makes sense.
I just don't have that judgemental bone in me I guess...
I don't know whether you have thought about this aspect of things, because it took me a while to click into this....
While I do not accept much of what the Bible states, an awful lot of the message - particularly from Jesus himself - is sound, positive and loving. I gradually came to realise over time that it wasn't necessarily the so-called christian message that was angering me, or alienating me per se....it was the control being exerted but those in eclesiastical authority, who were in many ways bending the message to suit and to fit their desires... Religion is and always has been an excellent means of controlling the masses (if you'll pardon the pun!). "Those in Charge" have always projected themselves as benevolent and well-meaning, protective of our lives and souls - and sometimes, I am sure their motives have been well-intentioned and with our sincere and honest best interests at heart. But in my view, any form or control outside the parameters of what that religion is founded on, is at best, misguided, and at worst, positively malevolent.
Over time, I have rejected a deistic religion, because I simply cannot bring myself to believe that there are Good - and Evil - forces who exert control upon my will and are purportedly responsible for everything I encounter and react to.
Jesus' message - omitting the reference to God the Father - is largely what I live by anyway. (or try to.... you know what I mean....) And there are some schools of thought who theorise that during his silent years (aged 12 to 30, when nothing is heard of him) he travelled and absorbed the different faiths, religions and creeds of other cultures. Which might be why we get a lot of "You have heard it said....but I say unto you....." from him....
I would not condemn nor criticise anyone for whatever faith or belief they hold. and if it is strong, deep, true and resolute for them, I am delighted for them. it's just not MY truth, and I occasionally object to those who speak of God/Christ/The Holy Spirit as if (a) it's a given that we all believe in them, and (b) that what they say is definite and irrefutable, and we're hell-bound if we don't concur.
I have several Moslem friends. I have some Hindu. I have one particularly good Jewish friend, and many who are Christian. And we all get along famously, and we're all fine with one another. And they are all aware that they have beliefs and I don't. Buddhists don't ascribe to 'belief' as a legitimate energy or process. Buddhists will either "come to know for themselves" or leave aside as a "don't know" or "Maybe it will come to me in time." There's no hassle, no force, no obligation - save for the one we place upon ourselves.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by Geishawhelk; 27th April 2007 at 9:23 AM..
I went from being a practicing Catholic to a practicing Buddhist to an agnostic and now I'm some undetermined faith that has no organized religion attached to it. But from what I've been reading on this thread my beliefs are more Buddhist than anything else. I just refer to the Universe as "God". To me, everything is a part of God, a part of the Universe. Everything is interconnected.
The thing is, my mother's family is all Buddhist - from Vietnam. And from how my grandmother acts, Buddhists can be just as dogmatic as Christians.
Blind otter, you are absolutely right, particularly if the Buddhists are from countries where Buddhism is a prevalent or dominant Religion.
There are current situations in the Far East, with regard to conflicts between Chriatians and Buddhists which quite simply make me very sad. The Vatican has recently issued good wishes to Buddhist organisations and bodies, wishing them a Good vesak, and hoping to open dialogue to ensure closer amicable links and understanding between the two faiths. It seems a bit "horse and stable-door-ish" because there are foundations in the US and Europe, who have actively been doing this for years....
However, I digress....
back to The Buddha....
Siddharta Gautama became known as "The Buddha" upon his enlightenment, but 'Buddha' just means 'Awake' or 'Fully Aware'.... Another way you might find him called is Shakyamuni Buddha, or 'the Wise awakened one from the Shakya Tribe', as was his origin.....
The subject of his first sermon, at deer Park, was......
The Four Noble truths:
So called, because as yet, there has been nothing said or written since that can undermine or contradict them with any definitive counter-discussion....
1: Life is Difficult. (You will sometimes see this also termed as, suffering, unsatisfactory, unpredictable, irritating or - quite simply - ****! This gives many the impression that Buddhism is a devotion founded on pessimism and depressive discourse, but nothing could be further from the...Truth - !)
2: It is difficult (or the rest of it) because of our attachment and grasping, or clinging, to the vicious circle of good/bad, happy/sad, yes/no, up/down, in/out nature of our existence (Samsara).
3: There is a simple and effective means of escaping this vicious circle.
4: That means of escape is The Eightfold Path.
in order to be able to understand, accept and live by the Eightfold Path, one has to, first and foremost, do the same with the Four Noble truths.
it cannot simply be a question of reading them and agreeing with them. You (and I'm using "you" in the generic sense, not the personal sense, here) really have to take them in, explore them, understand them profoundly, and ooze them form every pore, from the centre of your Being.
1: There are two kinds of difficulty, or suffering:
One is physical, in the sense that our bodies in many ways, and at many times, are subject to faults and frailties... sometimes temporary, sometimes prolonged, acute or chronic... and that ultimately, they will 'give up the ghost' (!) altogether....
The other is psychological suffering; loneliness, frustration, fear, embarassment, despair during illness, disappointment and of course, often, anger.
These are irrefutable facts that cannot be denied. Rather than being pessimistic or negative, it is realistic, because pessimism or negativity focusses on the expectation of things always being bad, or going wrong.
Buddhism however, points out that suffering can be avoided, and that we can be truly, genuinely centrally happy.
With me so far....?
2:The second Truth is that 'Suffering' is caused by Attachment, Craving or Clinging, and aversion.
We will suffer if we expect other people to conform to our expectations, if we want others to like us, if we do not get something we want, if we feel out of control of a situation, etc.etc. etc.... In other words, not getting what you want guarantees unhappiness, but getting what you want does not, in turn, guarantee happiness. Because whatever we want - and get - is by very nature of its existence, temporary and transitory... so we know, even when we have it, that this too, shall pass.
Craving, grasping and Aversion (to the temporary transitory nature of everything) leads to suffering, because unable to shed ourselves of this vicious cycle, we are reborn into Samsara. Every moment, of every day.
3: The Third Noble truth, is that this perpetual cycle of Suffering and Difficulty, can be broken. True happiness and contentment are possible - we give up useless craving and learn to live each day (each hour, each minute, each second) at a time (neither dwelling in the past, nor in the imagined future). Only then, can we become Happy and Free.... By Seeing Things Exactly As They Are.
4: The Fourth Noble Truth is, that the way out of this perpetual cycle of Suffering and Difficulty - is The Eightfold Path.
Please note: The suggestions and advice offered on this web site are opinions only and are not to be used in the place of professional psychological counseling or medical advice. If you or someone close to you is currently in crisis or in an emergency situation, contact your local law enforcement agency or emergency number.
(BTW, I LOVE your signature...for some peverse reason....!!)
Linear Mode
