[supernova]

this is a long complicated story (aren't they always?)...long breath...my close group of friends is a group of 5 consisting of me, my husband (call him H), friend (call him OG), my best female friend (call her N) and another male friend.

i have been with H since i was 18/19. When I was 21, I met OG who was H's flatmate through uni. I didn't really think too much about OG at first and neither did he but then we sort of would tease each other a lot in that love/hate way. N even asked me once if i had feelings for OG because of it and too proud to say anything, i said no.

one night, i saw OG and it was strange, it was like i was instantly attracted to him for real. we spoke seriously for the first time ever and i was a bit tipsy, i rubbed his back and he joked that i was his gf. i recall N looking at us with some surprise but not saying anything...after this incident, felt so guilty considered breaking up with H and in code told OG what i was thinking, in code back OG basically said it's just a phase you're going through, u'll regret leaving him especially since nothing will ever happen with us.

OG ended up sleeping with N. one night i manoevred myself to go out where OG was and dropped hints that i liked him, he ignored them and at that time H and OG still living together. H organised a holiday for me and him, OG gave me a look then i got really sick and H took me to doctor & looked after me. OG told H who told me that he could never have a relationship & he cldn't look after a girl the way H looked after me. I left OG alone after that, i just cldn't justify pursuing him - he didn't want a relationship, he slept with my best friend, he was an alcoholic etc the list goes on. he went overseas, i wrote him a letter but ripped it up and never gave it to him. then i went overseas to find myself and H ended up proposing. It felt right I said yes.

during my engagement, OG was on the phone to a friend, he looked at me and said 'No she doesn't want to marry me, she's getting married to someone else'. I looked at him my jaw dropping but then he just laughed and made me feel stupid.

when my dad died, i rang him to ask for some help (he's a lawyer) and he did help me out. he had to ring my mum and my mum asked me what my relationship with OG was and i told her he was just a friend, not sure what he said or did that made her think otherwise. i also gave him a story of mine to read and he wrote me a pretty cutting email about it. one night, we were all out and i told him off for being mean about my story and told him i knew why he was so harsh to me. he looked to see if H was about then dipped me and planted a soft kiss on my cheek. i felt something but didn't want to do anything bad by H so know this might sound strange but i told N because i knew if she knew i wldnt act on anything.

then he got himself a new GF, blonde like me and also into communications but the uber version - smarter cos she was doing law and much prettier...when he told me about her, he said that she was my 'doppleganger'. i was happy that he found someone else though jealous.

then she cheated on him not once but twice, going back to her ex BF who she had been texting the 1st time i met her. she had mental issues and when she was through with him, he went on anti-depressants and while i was on a work trip, i realised i had been lying to myself about my feelings for OG for years.

got drunk at a party one night and i recall doing something dumb like touching OG's leg while we were under a blanket. he didn't really do anything - he didn't react one way or the other but quite a few times, he says stuff insinuating that my sex life with H isn't going well, that i shld have a baby soon etc but at the same time, we were out one night and talking in a cab and i said that i always liked guys who didn't like me back and he replies that he would always wait too long to let a girl know how he feels and by that time, it wld be too late and she'd be with someone else.

since then, he's hooked up with the ex GF for sex, slept again with N and recently been diagnosed with bipolar disorder though he's in denial about that and is drinking while on his meds.

at N's birthday, i don't know what came over me but i told him off for stuffing her around over the years, i said that he cldn't get his act together so that's why she had another BF. He looked at me and said 'well you're the one that's unhappily married'.

i feel like i can't move on with my life until i understand where this guy is coming from? can anybody tell me what he means by all of this? i have to see him a lot because he's a close friend of H's and i cld cope if i cld just figure out how he feels about me and N.

[Trimmer]

Ummm.... Are you still married to "H"? That's a somewhat rhetorical question, but other than calling someone your "husband", you don't seem to give much indication of being married. You are in a marriage, yes?

My advice is pretty simple:

(1) You owe it to yourself, your husband, and your marriage to "figure out" your marriage first. It sounds to me like you are not that serious about your marriage, or that committed to it. Either get in it with all your soul, or get out, but make that decision based on you and your husband, not on some "OG."

(2) If you are in a marriage, stop "crossing the line" with this intense flirting - it just continues to feed your confusion, and also sends "OG" the message that you are interested, which, unfortunately for your husband, you appear to be.

(3) No, you don't need to figure him out. What good will that do? If you find out that he isn't "into you", then you'll just move on and (maybe?) recommit to your marriage. If you find out that he is interested in you, what will that change? Will you leave your marriage for him? This one is not a rhetorical question - I'm interested in your answer. Will figuring him out change your decision or your behavior at all?

I think you need to do some serious soul searching. What is a marriage to you? What are the boundaries of a marriage? What boundaries would you expect your husband to respect?

Interesting that you posted this in the "Transitioning" area of the forums. What transition do you see happening here? Do you even see this as a marriage issue, or do you see it as something separate from your marriage?

There's also an Infidelity board, you know.

[supernova]

thanks for your reply.

to answer your questions:

1. I am trying to do just that but it's a bit awkward when OG is always around. It's all very well to judge people but until you've been in a situation where someone you're attracted to is always around when you're trying to work on your marriage, you'll never know what it's like. I have been with H since I was 19 and I'm now 30 and it's hard to know if my feelings are a result of going through a rough patch, being bored, our sexual issues or falling out of love. I am an idealist and committed to him so I will do everything in my power to be and I am a good wife however it doesn't stop these feelings, I still have them even though I will never act on them.
2. I am trying not to cross the line with intense flirting. Atm, I'm just trying to just leave him alone - hopefully it will stick.
3. I think I wouldn't feel in limbo if I could figure him out - you're right in that it wouldn't necessarily change my behaviour or my decision re my marriage though maybe it would who knows. What I'm looking for is closure and honesty - I just think it will help me to move on. I want to know why he has been messing with my head all these years and whether I've just imagined all of this.

I haven't been unfaithful to my husband though I do feel guilty for being attracted to OG which is why yes I have posted in the other forums as well. I am posting here though because OG is a friend who could have transitioned into something else perhaps had things turned out differently but who i want to transition back into just a friend so that things can be normal, i can work on my marriage and just move on.

hopefully no-one else has to deal with situations like these but it's probably more common than ppl think...it doesn't make me a bad person to admit that i've been attracted to someone else, it only makes me human. the difference is whether i act on it or not and as i won't be ending my marriage or betraying my husband, that isn't an option.

[Trimmer]

Hey, I'm sorry, and I don't want to come off as judgemental, but I probably won't be able to avoid it.

Originally Posted by supernova

...It's all very well to judge people but until you've been in a situation where someone you're attracted to is always around when you're trying to work on your marriage, you'll never know what it's like.

You're right, I haven't been in your situation, but I do know what it's like.... to be your husband. My wife, twice during our marriage which has now ended, turned outside our marriage for friendship, comfort, companionship, emotional support, sex... And she could never describe or explain why - whether we were just going through a rough patch, being bored, our sexual issues or falling out of love... Sound familiar? Each time it started out innocently and like a frog slowly boiling over low heat, she eventually found herself somewhere over the line.

Originally Posted by supernova

...however it doesn't stop these feelings, I still have them even though I will never act on them.

It depends on what "acting on them" means to you, and here we get back to my point about where the boundaries of your marriage are, in your opinion and your husband's. I think a valuable way to explore this is to ask yourself how you would feel if your husband had a female friend, and the two of them exhibited some of the behaviors you have described:

If she planted soft kisses on his cheek - of course, after specifically checking to make sure you weren't around.

If he felt jealous when she was going out with "someone else," who she told him was his mirror image...

If they were drunk at a party and he touched her leg under a blanket...

If they had such a rapport that she would comment to him on how his sex life with you must not be going well, and how his marriage to you was unhappy.

Could you really feel like these behaviors are not crossing a line?

The problem is, people have different lines, different boundaries. A lot of people convince themselves that as long as their pants stay on they haven't cheated, and technically that's true. However, my opinion is that once you start to feel something for someone outside your marriage, that once you take actions based on those feelings (sharing intimate details, kisses, touches, communicating about your attraction) you have crossed an important line that isn't quite yet "cheating", but which is still crossing a marital boundary nonetheless. It's my opinion, and others may differ. But again, ask yourself - what if the tables were turned, and he was acting like this. Would I truly be OK with it?

Originally Posted by supernova

2. I am trying not to cross the line with intense flirting. Atm, I'm just trying to just leave him alone - hopefully it will stick.

I agree with you here, and I think this is important.

Originally Posted by supernova

3. I think I wouldn't feel in limbo if I could figure him out - you're right in that it wouldn't necessarily change my behaviour or my decision re my marriage though maybe it would who knows.

... though maybe it would. I really think you need to get this guy out of your head and out of your marriage.

Originally Posted by supernova

I haven't been unfaithful to my husband though I do feel guilty for being attracted to OG....

hopefully no-one else has to deal with situations like these but it's probably more common than ppl think...it doesn't make me a bad person to admit that i've been attracted to someone else, it only makes me human.

Here I'm going to be very supportive of you - I believe that you shouldn't feel guilty for having the feelings of attraction to someone else. I think it's a natural, human thing, and I experienced it myself several times during my marriage.

How I handled it, however, was to make sure that I never took a single action based on that attraction, and never communicated it in the slightest to the object of that attraction. For me, crossing that boundary would have been going outside the marriage, and out of bounds.

Originally Posted by supernova

What I'm looking for is closure and honesty - I just think it will help me to move on. I want to know why he has been messing with my head all these years and whether I've just imagined all of this.

Here's the deal. And any guys reading this, please chime in and either agree or tear me apart, but this is my take: He's a guy. He's attracted to you, and he doesn't have much loyalty to your husband, so he doesn't have anything to lose.

Men like to control things, especially when it comes to attractive women, so he toys with you. You, being married, have a lot to lose so he's not worried that you will blow the whistle on him. He told you early on that nothing would ever happen between you, but you both keep playing the game. For you though, it's serious, you have taken a long time to process and realize that your feelings are real.

For him, it's just a game. He knows you are out of bounds, he knows you are married, but that just makes the game more challenging and exciting. He's mean to you, toys with you to get you upset, then he gently kisses you on the cheek. It's control; it's fun; it makes him feel like a man. Early on he told you nothing will ever happen between you, but then continued to flirt and play, even once you were married. He's got nothing to lose - it's a titillating, exciting game to fall back on, and besides, he's still getting laid elsewhere, so what the heck. He's got it all.

Incidentally, men do like to control things, but when they can't, one common response is to get aggressive. So when you finally throw it back at him - when you take back some control by pushing back a bit, for example by telling him he can't get his act together - naturally he turns on you and gets nasty about your marriage. Suddenly, he throws it in your face that you are "unhappily married."

So what more do you need to figure out? Is this really a healthy friendship for you? Is he really a friend to your husband? Is he what I call a "friend of the marriage?"

Look, I'm busting your chops here, I realize. I'm really hoping this will be helpful in some way. I'm trying not to be judgemental - I think you're in a dangerous situation - perhaps more than you accept - but I'm not saying that makes you a bad person. Actually, the fact that you are giving it very serious thought puts you ahead of most people in situations like yours who lie to themselves and say "well, I haven't cheated, so it's all OK; we're 'just friends' ".

The key to working on your marriage isn't figuring out "OG", his feelings, or where he is coming from. The key to solidifying your marriage has to be found within the boundaries of the marriage. Focus your energies and your feelings and your emotional energy there, and as your marriage strengthens, the need to figure out OG will fade, as it should.

[supernova]

i can't thank u enough for all of that, you've really hit the nail on the head and it all makes sense now. You're totally right about everything. I'm going to stay away from him I'll only ever be near him when everybody else is and I won't engage him in conversation at all. I won't play the game any more, I've had enough. And you're right, I would be really upset if my husband was that emotionally close to a woman so I need to fix things. One question though do you think I should tell my husband any of this? My feeling is I don't think it would help things, I just need to stay away from OG. I'm a strong person so I know I can fix this situation up, OG is using me to build up his self esteem and I realise this now. I will think of this and it will make my resolve strong. Thank you