I am married male and I am having a hard time dealing with a friendship with a married female. We have common interests in exercise and that is what brought us to know one another. I have known her for about 3 years and have formed a friendship with her that is very easy to maintain.

Problems arose when after about a year and half my wife finally met her in person and shot me the look of death when she saw her. It has been a sore point from then on, brutal would be the best description. In any case there was much turmoil and a lot of things were out in the open. The fact that my wife was very jealous and thought that feelings were very deep made life unbearable.

A quick and simple solution would have been to cut off all contact with this woman, but since we run in the same circle of friends it would be next to impossible. I thought the next best thing would be to include my wife in the group's activities and quell her fears that something was going on. It was an up and down success. My wife has always been very jealous and reasoning becomes very skewed when any discussion of this person comes up. It has gotten better, but it has made me think about what is really going on here.

I do think about my friend frequently and although I know I shouldn't, I still do. How do I get out of this whole mess that appears so torturous for me and my wife? Am I on a road to self destruction?

I have been assured that my friend's feelings are purely platonic and to that I would agree it is mutual, but sometimes I wonder, really wonder if that is the case. I guess many might say to just snap out of it, but that is easier said than done sometimes.

[Limerent]

What exactly do you want out of your head? That you may or may not have feelings for this other woman?

I do think about my friend frequently and although I know I shouldn't, I still do

In what ways?

I have been assured that my friend's feelings are purely platonic and to that I would agree it is mutual, but sometimes I wonder, really wonder if that is the case

.

So, you have actually talked to your friend about the possibility that feelings could exist?

I wonder..I wonder if perhaps your wifes jealousy has taken a toll on you and actually is pushing you towards the very thing you were pushing against. It makes sense because the more your wife thinks about it, the more its going to prompt you to think about it, and I am sure your wife has brought up some colorful scenarios which of course could trigger you to actually think about it.

Problems arose when after about a year and half my wife finally met her in person

May I ask why it took a year and a half for your wife to finally meet her?

as an afterthought, I had to mention this:

In any case there was much turmoil and a lot of things were out in the open.

Were you hiding this friendship with this woman from your wife at first?

[Kwo-ne'-she]

One question. What is more important - your wife & marriage, or this other's woman's friendship & the "circles" you hang out in? That is all it boils down to, and is something you will have to answer yourself.

[norajane]

If it took a year and a half for you wife to meet her, how is this woman in your "circles"? Did you bring her in?

And, I'm sorry, but exercise? THAT's what you have in common and why she has become such a big part of your thoughts?

The woman is married. So are you. And she has told you, I guess, that her feelings are purely platonic. Anything outside of that is pure fantasy on your part, and destructive.

I have a feeling your wife can tell where your predilicitons lie...that's why nothing you say and nothing you do has been able to calm her fears.

You've said you can't stop thinking about her, then you say it's mutually platonic only, then you wonder if her feelings are really more than platonic, you said there was turmoil and a lot of things "out in the open", and this has been going on three years, and you need to snap yourself out of it but that's easier said than done... If you are as contradictory with her as you are in your post, then I can see why your wife would have trouble believing you are just being friendly with her and there's nothing more in your mind.

Do what your wife needs you to do - stop seeing this woman, stop exercising with her, and don't worry about the "circles". Change your circle, if need be. In order to get her out of your head, you first have to DECIDE to stop it. And you clearly haven't firmly decided to do that.

[d8zedandconfused]

Well I didn't want to divulge a lot of the details in order to protect privacy. When I say exercise, I meant specifically cycling, which we do with a fairly large group. It would be next to impossible to terminate contact since I am one of the more dedicated organizers.

I think it was hit on earlier that my wife may be driving me away and perhaps shooting herself in the foot. I explained in many of our "discussions" that her jealous streak is not flattering. It gets irrational and ugly. I have known my wife for 23 years and we have been married for almost 16. This jealous streak broke us up once before and for no good reason, since it was all in her head and I can say that with all honesty.

There are so many reasons that this consumes me and again it was mentioned earlier that my wife may have conjured up fantasies that have been placed in my mind. This is what I want out of my head.

I most likely can't avoid interaction with this woman and when my wife is around her they talk up a storm. I mentioned that I wanted my wife to be included so I bought her a bike and all the gear after she had tried it and agreed it was fun and hard work. She excelled for her first year and looks forward to warmer weather and riding again. Again when they are together they talk a lot. I have to watch how much I talk to this woman, where I ride in proximity and a number of other observed variables or they will be brought up in "discussions" down the road. I has made me miserable for a year and the last 6 months have been a bit better. It really is a no win situation because my wife changes the rules when it suits her. It was stated that home phone calls were fine, but cellphone calls weren't. Emails to my home acct were okay, but she would read things into each so I steered away from those. I have done everything she has asked, but it seems to do a 180 when she wants to discuss things with me.

I grew up with 2 sisters and a brother and I have always gotten along with women. I am not a player, I just find that women are easier to talk to, look at and smell better. LOL I don't need to be a sports whiz to talk to a woman, be it my wife, my sister or a friend. Maybe it's the fact that the woman is almost the exact age of my older sister that I lost when she was 20 and that she fills some sort of void. I don't know. I don't want my friend in bed, but I do enjoy talking to her. I would have to say that about a couple of males friends too. They make me laugh. I told my wife this, but somehow I doubt she believes me.

I have a bunch of male friends whom are quite a bit older than me. I feel good around them. It's a feeling of security and wisdom to be gained by being around them that brings me back. I don't get that from my older brother who seems to bring more stress than that feeling of stability. I think that is what I get from my friend. A little bit of attention, a bit of caring, a bit of guidance and not a bunch of stress. That I get enough of everyday.

Now I will address the fact of why it took so long for my wife to meet this person. No particular premeditated thought on my part. She would call the house and talk to my wife and my wife would pass the phone to me and nothing was ever an issue. I would paint a broad based assesment of various rides and her name would be included as well as everyone else's. My wife had no interest in what I did on the bike. I only rode with this woman in a group maybe 3 days a week. All conversations were about the rides coming up, weather and the occasional gossip about one particular person. There was never a "secret" message or innuendo in any conversation. We joked, which I have been told is flirting, but then I guess I flirt with men if you take that perspective.

My friend was raised with all brothers, so one would assume that she is quite at home interacting with the opposite sex. My wife didn't have that experience, having only one sister and suffering through her parent's divorce as a teen. I guess this all comes together as a perfect storm in the maturation process and forming bias in one's thinking. I can sympathize with that even though my parents were together until my father's death.

Now with that being said sometimes I get confused. Sometimes there are signals and signs from my friend that do indeed seem like overt flirting. The touch on the forearm or back. The concern when I get injured, which I do often. Some of the things she writes in emails, not brazen "I want you" things, just little things. We have discussed this issue in short bursts and we both agree it's a brother/sister thing, but my wife doesn't see it that way. When all that occurs it does have an affect on one's thought process. Now I guess the best thing in the whole world would be for my friend and I to admit to some deeper, but not lustful feelings and each be flattered that they exist, but to never have them progress any further. That is not the thing that I would believe anyone would want to do and set themselves up for embarrassment and an awkward moment.

In the end if any woman paid me attention I would be flattered and it would be nice, BUT I would never act on any temptation. I respect and love my wife too much to ever do that to her. That is why I trust her and she is free to talk to anyone she wants of either sex, know ing that if she ever was disloyal that the guilt she would live with would be unbearable. I once cheated on a girlfriend while in high school and the sickening feeling that I had after the fact will always remain a reminder of the pain it causes to both people involved in a relationship. I don't know if this long winded message conveyed the feelings I wanted to get across, but I sure hope it explains a bit more of what is going on.

[norajane]

Originally Posted by d8zedandconfused

Now with that being said sometimes I get confused.

We have discussed this issue in short bursts and we both agree it's a brother/sister thing, but my wife doesn't see it that way.

Now I guess the best thing in the whole world would be for my friend and I to admit to some deeper, but not lustful feelings and each be flattered that they exist, but to never have them progress any further.

Again, this is why your wife isn't believing you when you tell her your relationship with this woman is harmless. Because it isn't. These deeper feelings, which you say aren't lustful, are intimate feelings. If you have an emotionally intimate relationship with another woman, that is threatening to your marriage. You are getting something from and giving something to this other woman that should be reserved for your relationship with your wife.

I would suggest marriage counseling, but since you don't believe you're doing anything wrong and your wife is "pushing" you toward this woman with her jealousy, I fear that counseling might not do you much good.

[d8zedandconfused]

Originally Posted by norajane

I would suggest marriage counseling, but since you don't believe you're doing anything wrong and your wife is "pushing" you toward this woman with her jealousy, I fear that counseling might not do you much good.

I have suggested that we seek counseling and when I said I have talked with my friend about our relationship in short bursts I mean short exchanges. We didn't go into deep intimate details, although I just discussed it with her today and I feel better about the whole thing. I would have to say that this was the first time we actually talked about the affect our relationship had on "my" marriage and she felt genuinely sorry for causing such turmoil. And I might add that after I talked to her I feel a tremendous amount of relief about my feelings towards her. I can say that I don't lust after her and most likely would wind up strangling her if we were ever in an intimate relationship, I am kidding of course. I have known her for 3 years and never ever have I considered even if I was single making a move on her. I do think of her as a sister as hard as you may find that to believe.

I did not write this to have someone say "hey it's okay" I merely found some catharsis and some advice to be valuable. I find that I am contributing to this turmoil by being a naive about how some relationships can evolve and add that to a deeply routed jealous streak and things are a bit stressed. I don't mind if my wife kids me about her and she is really just kidding. It's when she acuses me of things that I know not to be true that drives me away. They are not rational thoughts and there is no way to argue with these statements that come out of her mouth. It's a Jeckyl and Hyde transformation that makes me cringe.


I told my wife last night that I would not even consider a real relationship with this woman even if our marriage did not exist. She may come in handy to find me someone, but I doubt very much if we could ever co-exist.
Opposites attract and my wife and I are a very good match. I just want her to be secure in knowing that and trusting that I would never let her down.

[Trialbyfire]

When you get too deeply into a friendship with the opposite gender, regardless of compatibility or honourable intentions, sometimes things happen. This is how many emotional affairs begin. I suspect it's this closeness that your wife resents, that you're redirecting positive energy from your relationship. I consider gut instinct an extension of your subconscious mind so I never ignore it, although it like everything else isn't infallible and can often come to the wrong conclusions.

Best think about why you resent your wife reading your emails. If it was completely above-board, why care? If you really want to put your wife's mind at rest, why not have a discussion about it with both women at the same time?

[magichands]

Originally Posted by Guest

We have common interests in exercise and

It's OK - you can say the word on here. It's not taboo, or anything.

I have been assured that my friend's feelings are purely platonic and

You've had such a conversation?! This should tell you something, all by itself.

but sometimes I wonder, really wonder if that is the case.

Take your wonderings, multiply a thousand-fold, and there you have what your wife is feeling. I suggest you think about somebody other than yourself for a change.

[bones]

I understand what you are going through. I also understand the perspective of those replying. For women, the emotional affair can be as difficult to handle as a physical one. Friendships with the opposite sex can be a real challenge. I am in a similar position as you, in that I have a very good opposite sex friend. My spouse doesn't have the jealousy factor though.

For me, it is hard to establish relationships with the same sex-- because I think and behave more like the opposite. I am heterosexual, just very androgenous. Having a good friend outside the marriage actually improves my relationship with my spouse. When I have a life outside of my immediate family, I feel less suffocated and actually have more to give at home when I've had a chance to interact with others - alone.

I strongly believe that if you don't cross the line and you are providing the love and intimacy your wife needs, your friendship should be acceptable.
Tallk with your wife and ask her to be honest about how she views your relationship. Maybe she's not getting something she needs from you. Filling that void may lessen the emphasis she puts on this other woman. Also be honest with her. Tell her what you get out of the relationship that you don't get at home and why it is important to you.

My friend is important to me because I don't feel judged. I like who I am when we are together -- which doesn't happen with many other people. I laugh a lot too. We can hang out and talk about anything and even argue about stupid ****. It never changes the fact that we are very comfortable around one another and just plain have fun hanging out. There has never been any physical intimacy or deep discussions,other than trying to give some support and perspective on career/job topics and general communication and parenting stuff.

I wish you all the best as you try to sort it out. The green eyed monster can be difficult to deal with.

[Kwo-ne'-she]

Again, I say....

Originally Posted by Kwo-ne'-she

One question. What is more important - your wife & marriage, or this other's woman's friendship & the "circles" you hang out in? That is all it boils down to, and is something you will have to answer yourself.

You can reason, rationalize, explain all you want. And I'm not saying you have other motives for being friends with this woman. What I'm saying is, no matter how much you try to explain it away, your wife has a problem with it. For whatever reason, she feels there is a threat. Real or imagined, she feels it. The ball is in your court.

[d8zedandconfused]

You are correct there is no way to explain it or rationalize it that would make my wife feel better. We are very close my wife and I and what makes me so angry is that she doesn't trust me like I trust her. I could cut all contact with this friend, but it would not help. Do you know why? Because there is no trust whatsoever. She doesn't believe that I don't talk to her even when for weeks, no contact. I never know how to deal with the interrogation, which sucks because I cannot lie, which would sometimes be easier.

What really sucks the most and I told her this, is the fact that she channels the anger toward me, even if I have held up my end of the bargain. If I ask what she wants me to do to appease her she will make a statement and I will take that as law, but that changes and it's not that I hold her to the letter and find a loophole in the law. It actually changes and it's used against me. For instance, no contact except for calls to the house phone. I will not hear from her at all and when she does call to see what the group I ride with is doing, she talks to my wife and either is passed on to me or she gets the info from my wife and hangs up. That's when I get the "How come she can't find out from someone else?" Well like it or not I have been chosen to lead this group and no matter how I try to pass along the responsibilty it still comes back to me. Others call, but they are men, so that is okay.

I am really at my wits end. I have no where to go, nor do I really want to. I am always home and enjoy my wife and family when things are good. I don't go out with the guys, in fact I was told I should, BUT she says that and I know how the reception would be when I got home.

In a nutshell, she cheats when she fabricates things, twists my words, brings up things from way in the past, reads way more into things than any rational person would and still I love her.

It is not pretty and no matter what some say, if it wasn't this woman friend it would be something else. I knew going into this marriage that this was part of her package. Probably the only flaw I could ever find. Unfortunately it is an ugly, ugly side of her that each time places a wedge between us that increases. The pity is I accept this and not to sound like a martyr, but there is no give in her position, in fact it gets worse each time. She has no self awareness at all. She says things that are hurtful and hasn't a clue, she just counters with "what is it like to be perfect?"

I have noticed that there is a correlation between this jealous streak and me and her relationship with female friends too. Too much time wasted on obsessing on others and what they are doing. I don't worry about what my guy neighbors are doing and where and who they are going to dinner with. My wife does. It stresses me out and granted I joke about the neighbors too, but not with the same obsession. So, I seem to be answering my own question and some more additional background history would help in the troubleshooting.

About 7 years ago I was fat, really fat. I wasn't fat when my wife met me. I wasn't fat when we were married. I was about 100 pounds overweight. I was fat for 8-9 years. I started riding and riding and riding. Alone at first and then found a club and group rides. I lost weight met a lot of people and made a few friends. I started to race and became totally involved in cycling and sharing that with my wife. I would go a little up and down with weight, but never ever to the extreme shape I was in. That's when the first inklings of jealousy started. The "I saw so and so staring at you" and the "oh you just love all of the attention everyone gives you" were coming more frequently. My three things in life, My family, My job and Cycling.

When I was fat I got comments like "you're a sight" from my mother. I got comments from wife during intimate situations. Yes they hurt and yes they drove me to never be that way again. If I had said that to my wife during her preganancy I would have paid dearly for the rest of my life. I am not perfect, despite what my wife says, but I do apologize sincerely. I cannot say that for my wife. It's always sorry "but". I have never heard a heartfelt apology for those words. I get "that was sooo long ago and I only said it once"

So 7 years later I run and cycle. I have included my wife in my "other" world and run and ride with her (She said she enjoys it). I am proud of her accomplishments (running a 5K together) and the fact that sometimes she motivates me to run when I don't want to and I thank her for that. She sees the asking her to ride and run from me as... I dunno, but it is brought up as something bad. If I don't ask she will say that I don't care and when I do ask she says that I am a pain. No win. Oh God would someone please tell me what to do? This goes much deeper than a female friend.

[d8zedandconfused]

You are correct there is no way to explain it or rationalize it that would make my wife feel better. We are very close my wife and I and what makes me so angry is that she doesn't trust me like I trust her. I could cut all contact with this friend, but it would not help. Do you know why? Because there is no trust whatsoever. She doesn't believe that I don't talk to her even when for weeks, no contact. I never know how to deal with the interrogation, which sucks because I cannot lie, which would sometimes be easier.

What really sucks the most and I told her this, is the fact that she channels the anger toward me, even if I have held up my end of the bargain. If I ask what she wants me to do to appease her she will make a statement and I will take that as law, but that changes and it's not that I hold her to the letter and find a loophole in the law. It actually changes and it's used against me. For instance, no contact except for calls to the house phone. I will not hear from her at all and when she does call to see what the group I ride with is doing, she talks to my wife and either is passed on to me or she gets the info from my wife and hangs up. That's when I get the "How come she can't find out from someone else?" Well like it or not I have been chosen to lead this group and no matter how I try to pass along the responsibilty it still comes back to me. Others call, but they are men, so that is okay.

I am really at my wits end. I have no where to go, nor do I really want to. I am always home and enjoy my wife and family when things are good. I don't go out with the guys, in fact I was told I should, BUT she says that and I know how the reception would be when I got home.

In a nutshell, she cheats when she fabricates things, twists my words, brings up things from way in the past, reads way more into things than any rational person would and still I love her.

It is not pretty and no matter what some say, if it wasn't this woman friend it would be something else. I knew going into this marriage that this was part of her package. Probably the only flaw I could ever find. Unfortunately it is an ugly, ugly side of her that each time places a wedge between us that increases. The pity is I accept this and not to sound like a martyr, but there is no give in her position, in fact it gets worse each time. She has no self awareness at all. She says things that are hurtful and hasn't a clue, she just counters with "what is it like to be perfect?"

I have noticed that there is a correlation between this jealous streak and me and her relationship with female friends too. Too much time wasted on obsessing on others and what they are doing. I don't worry about what my guy neighbors are doing and where and who they are going to dinner with. My wife does. It stresses me out and granted I joke about the neighbors too, but not with the same obsession. So, I seem to be answering my own question and some more additional background history would help in the troubleshooting.

About 7 years ago I was fat, really fat. I wasn't fat when my wife met me. I wasn't fat when we were married. I was about 100 pounds overweight. I was fat for 8-9 years. I started riding and riding and riding. Alone at first and then found a club and group rides. I lost weight met a lot of people and made a few friends. I started to race and became totally involved in cycling and sharing that with my wife. I would go a little up and down with weight, but never ever to the extreme shape I was in. That's when the first inklings of jealousy started. The "I saw so and so staring at you" and the "oh you just love all of the attention everyone gives you" were coming more frequently. My three things in life, My family, My job and Cycling.

When I was fat I got comments like "you're a sight" from my mother. I got comments from wife during intimate situations. Yes they hurt and yes they drove me to never be that way again. If I had said that to my wife during her preganancy I would have paid dearly for the rest of my life. I am not perfect, despite what my wife says, but I do apologize sincerely. I cannot say that for my wife. It's always sorry "but". I have never heard a heartfelt apology for those words. I get "that was sooo long ago and I only said it once" I know she is insecure about me. I have also had to deal with a very pretty wife that has never had to deal with a weight problem and you know what I "deal with it". Looks from other men never bothered me to the extreme it does with her. Male friends flirting with her were noticed, but my rational thinking was that they were harmless.

So 7 years later I run and cycle. I have included my wife in my "other" world and run and ride with her (She said she enjoys it). I am proud of her accomplishments (running a 5K together) and the fact that sometimes she motivates me to run when I don't want to and I thank her for that. She sees the asking her to ride and run from me as... I dunno, but it is brought up as something bad. If I don't ask she will say that I don't care and when I do ask she says that I am a pain. No win. Oh God would someone please tell me what to do? This goes much deeper than a female friend. I am also sorry that this so long.

[Trialbyfire]

This does go far deeper than a female friend. It's about respect and trust. Time to sit your wife down and in a non-emotional manner, explain to her that she needs to cut the negativity because it's eroding on you as a person. Do not allow her to twist it so that it's all your fault. It takes two to tango. Also, shut it down if it looks like it's going to turn into a slash and burn discussion. That isn't what you want, so you control it.

[Kwo-ne'-she]

Originally Posted by d8zedandconfused

You are correct there is no way to explain it or rationalize it that would make my wife feel better. We are very close my wife and I and what makes me so angry is that she doesn't trust me like I trust her. I could cut all contact with this friend, but it would not help. Do you know why? Because there is no trust whatsoever.

That is the root of the problem. I'm assuming, from your posts, that you have never given her a reason to not trust you? If so, maybe she needs to speak to someone about the trust issues she is having, since they appear to be a bit irrational.

Originally Posted by d8zedandconfused

It is not pretty and no matter what some say, if it wasn't this woman friend it would be something else. I knew going into this marriage that this was part of her package. Probably the only flaw I could ever find.

If you knew this from the beginning, and it was acceptable, why isn't it now? Not that I think she should be the way she is, just curious what changed for you..

Originally Posted by d8zedandconfused

About 7 years ago I was fat, really fat. I wasn't fat when my wife met me. I wasn't fat when we were married. I was about 100 pounds overweight. I was fat for 8-9 years. I started riding and riding and riding. Alone at first and then found a club and group rides. I lost weight met a lot of people and made a few friends. I started to race and became totally involved in cycling and sharing that with my wife. I would go a little up and down with weight, but never ever to the extreme shape I was in. That's when the first inklings of jealousy started. The "I saw so and so staring at you" and the "oh you just love all of the attention everyone gives you" were coming more frequently. My three things in life, My family, My job and Cycling.

Obvously she felt more secure when you were "fat". After losing weight, not only did you probably appear more attractive, your self esteem increased. Good for you, BTW.

Originally Posted by d8zedandconfused

So 7 years later I run and cycle. I have included my wife in my "other" world and run and ride with her (She said she enjoys it). I am proud of her accomplishments (running a 5K together) and the fact that sometimes she motivates me to run when I don't want to and I thank her for that. She sees the asking her to ride and run from me as... I dunno, but it is brought up as something bad. If I don't ask she will say that I don't care and when I do ask she says that I am a pain. No win. Oh God would someone please tell me what to do? This goes much deeper than a female friend.

I think it's wonderful that you have made changes to feel better about yourself, and lead a healthier life. As for your wife having problems with your female friend.....I'm afraid I have no magic answer. It sounds as if she needs to speak to someone about her trust issues. Maybe some counseling would help?