Giving atheism a bad name?

Lately I have run into a few condescending atheists who have told me that I'm damaging the atheist cause and that I'm not contributing by bashing christianity. I think these condescending atheists are traitors for supporting christian politicans.

 

First of all I'm not trying to convert anyone to anything. I am an agnostic. That simply means I don't know. I don't care what anyone believes. I'm not interested in arguing over whether God exists or not. I don't care. Even if I found positive proof that the God of the bible was real I still would have nothing to do with Him.

 

The God of the bible is a total jackass especially in the old testament. If He was real I'd probably punch His lights out. Christians ask me "well what if you find out you are wrong after you die." Well I guess I'm screwed then aren't I?

 

Everybody takes risks in life. If for some reason christians are right and I'm standing before a holy God I would hope He would give me a few minutes to say a few final words before an angel throws me into the lake of fire. That's what our earthly judges do in the court room. They give the defendant a chance to say a few words before the bailiff escorts them off to jail.

 

I'd probably ask God what in the world He was thinking to create a universe like this when He knew ahead of time that the majority of His creation would burn in hell forever? I'd ask him what kind of a psychopath he thinks he is. I would tell him how irresponsible he is and how he has no excuse to let our world get in the condition it is in when he knew ahead of time how it would turn out. I'd ask him why he allows his followers to misrepresent him with self righteousness and condescending attitudes.

 

Why not mouth off to God in His court room if He gives me the chance? According to christian theology it will be too late for me to escape the sentence of eternal hell even if I was very cooperative and civil and polite with God at the judgment. I would be like a death row inmate who might as well try to hurt all the inmates and officers as I can while I'm waiting to be executed. Why not? cooperating won't change my death sentence. What would I have to lose. If I'm going to hell then why go there with a bang?

 

So what do I have to lose by cussing him out and telling him how much of a jerk I think he is? Unless I'm missing something here. Is my punishment in hell going to be more severe if I'm cursing God at the white throne judgment than if I cooperated and said I was sorry?

 

So at this point I don't care if God exists or not. I don't have respect for him or his followers. I'm practically embarassed to have been created by a psychopathic deity. The God of the bible is not much of an animal lover. He destroys innocent animals during the flood. Nobody will ever hear me bragging about God or giving thanks to Him.

 

I don't have any respect for anyone who calls me unclean and tells me that I need to get saved. It ought to be prosecuted as a hate crime to go around telling people that they're going to burn in hell for eternity.

 

I'm doing everything I can in my power to take the 10 commandments off of the supreme court and every court room wall in america. I want all religious materials out of public life. Out of the government. Out of the law and especially out of public schools.

Lately I have run into a few condescending atheists who have told me that I'm damaging the atheist cause and that I'm not contributing by bashing christianity. I think these condescending atheists are traitors for supporting christian politicans.

 

First of all I'm not trying to convert anyone to anything. I am an agnostic. That simply means I don't know. I don't care what anyone believes. I'm not interested in arguing over whether God exists or not. I don't care. Even if I found positive proof that the God of the bible was real I still would have nothing to do with Him.

 

The God of the bible is a total jackass especially in the old testament. If He was real I'd probably punch His lights out. Christians ask me "well what if you find out you are wrong after you die." Well I guess I'm screwed then aren't I?

 

Everybody takes risks in life. If for some reason christians are right and I'm standing before a holy God I would hope He would give me a few minutes to say a few final words before an angel throws me into the lake of fire. That's what our earthly judges do in the court room. They give the defendant a chance to say a few words before the bailiff escorts them off to jail.

 

I'd probably ask God what in the world He was thinking to create a universe like this when He knew ahead of time that the majority of His creation would burn in hell forever? I'd ask him what kind of a psychopath he thinks he is. I would tell him how irresponsible he is and how he has no excuse to let our world get in the condition it is in when he knew ahead of time how it would turn out. I'd ask him why he allows his followers to misrepresent him with self righteousness and condescending attitudes.

 

Why not mouth off to God in His court room if He gives me the chance? According to christian theology it will be too late for me to escape the sentence of eternal hell even if I was very cooperative and civil and polite with God at the judgment. I would be like a death row inmate who might as well try to hurt all the inmates and officers as I can while I'm waiting to be executed. Why not? cooperating won't change my death sentence. What would I have to lose. If I'm going to hell then why go there with a bang?

 

So what do I have to lose by cussing him out and telling him how much of a jerk I think he is? Unless I'm missing something here. Is my punishment in hell going to be more severe if I'm cursing God at the white throne judgment than if I cooperated and said I was sorry?

 

So at this point I don't care if God exists or not. I don't have respect for him or his followers. I'm practically embarassed to have been created by a psychopathic deity. The God of the bible is not much of an animal lover. He destroys innocent animals during the flood. Nobody will ever hear me bragging about God or giving thanks to Him.

 

I don't have any respect for anyone who calls me unclean and tells me that I need to get saved. It ought to be prosecuted as a hate crime to go around telling people that they're going to burn in hell for eternity.

 

I'm doing everything I can in my power to take the 10 commandments off of the supreme court and every court room wall in america. I want all religious materials out of public life. Out of the government. Out of the law and especially out of public schools.

 

 

You wouldn't have to tell him. I would think he already knows. I'm sure one day you'll get your answers as to WHY and all other questions you may have.

If for some reason christians are right and I'm standing before a holy God I would hope He would give me a few minutes to say a few final words before an angel throws me into the lake of fire. That's what our earthly judges do in the court room. They give the defendant a chance to say a few words before the bailiff escorts them off to jail.

 

but if you know in your heart of hearts there's no God, and the one being touted is a so-called jerk, what would it matter that you get your rebuttal should you end up before a holy tribunal? It's not as if God doesn't have your number already.

 

or do you just want assurance that you'll get your pound of flesh?

 

as for your fellow atheists selling out ... well, it's kind of like saying you can and will only wear the color green because it's the only color you will allow yourself to like. No one "just" limits themself to one color ... nope, they'll jazz up the scene with some favorable hue that complements their favorite color, or even provides sharp contrast to better appreciate what your color is capable of doing. Or in terms of politics, no one is 1000 percent dammitcrat or repoopllican, but somewhere in the middle, and they tend to lean toward the candidate who best matches their ideals. Even if it comes down to choosing someone from the same party!

 

nope, I'm guessing that your atheist colleagues are able to look past those things that separate them from their believer friends to find common ground while being respectful of what the other side is saying. There are a few atheists on this forum I think are good eggs because they're capable of presenting their argument/POV in a manner that isn't rude or confrontational. I don't think they realize it, but in their own way, they help strengthen me in my own faith because they help me to see things in a whole other way, and the nice part is that no one expects each other to switch to the other team. They just want to make things clearer ... for both sides. And I've got to admire them for that.

 

so, if it floats your boat to denigrate someone with an opposing belief, go right ahead. Just know that the point you're trying so hard to make is going to go unheard because people will turn a deaf ear to what they feel is ranting.

Lately I have run into a few condescending atheists who have told me that I'm damaging the atheist cause and that I'm not contributing by bashing christianity. I think these condescending atheists are traitors for supporting christian politicans.

 

First of all I'm not trying to convert anyone to anything. I am an agnostic. That simply means I don't know. I don't care what anyone believes. I'm not interested in arguing over whether God exists or not. I don't care. Even if I found positive proof that the God of the bible was real I still would have nothing to do with Him.

 

 

Then you do care or you would have no problem with a politician or otherwise that had beliefs differing from your own.

 

I'm doing everything I can in my power to take the 10 commandments off of the supreme court and every court room wall in america. I want all religious materials out of public life. Out of the government. Out of the law and especially out of public schools.

 

None of the actions of one that doesn't care.

 

What is it that God disappointed you in? You have a lot of anger towards Him and, by extension, Hs followers, for someone/something you don't even believe in.

 

As for your atheist friends voting for Christian politicians, that's all that seem to run in America.

 

I, for one, don't believe that any religious tradition has the only claim to morality or ethics. Maybe your friends realize this, and support a moral cause moreso than a Christian one?

I don't have any respect for anyone who calls me unclean

How about Someone Who says we are all unclean?

The God of the bible is a total jackass especially in the old testament.

You have every reason to feel this way.

Christians ask me "well what if you find out you are wrong after you die." Well I guess I'm screwed then aren't I?

Not really. NO man truly knows your heart. Christian or Agnostic.

They give the defendant a chance to say a few words before the bailiff escorts them off to jail.

Your guilt is already known. How heavy it weighs on your heart is already measured.

I'd probably ask God what in the world He was thinking to create a universe like this when He knew ahead of time that the majority of His creation would burn in hell forever?

Would you prefer to be a robot programmed to love Him? Or to have your own free will?

So what do I have to lose by cussing him out and telling him how much of a jerk I think he is? Unless I'm missing something here.

My opinion? The only Thing you're missing is Christ.

I'm doing everything I can in my power to take the 10 commandments off of the supreme court and every court room wall in america. I want all religious materials out of public life. Out of the government. Out of the law and especially out of public schools.

This is expected, and it will happen....this is no surprise to me and other Born Again Christians....in fact, it'll be much, MUCH worse....and soon....

Would you prefer to be a robot programmed to love Him?

It never ceases to amaze me how often this most stupid of rebuttals comes out in response to the notion of the Bible-god's dubious "choice" (or, more accurately, guess) between eternal bliss or eternal punishment.

 

There is no hook of relevance or rationality on which to hang this type of response. What on earth do robots have to do with anything?

 

The point this person is making (and the one that flew over your head) is not that we should be programmed to love but that, with perfect foresight, any respectable deity who really did want all to be saved would actually find a way to do it, and a way that more accurately reflects the true nature of a person instead of which culture they happen to be born into.

 

The point is that the choice is abhorrent and the punishment goes beyond extravagant malevolence. barefoot is more likely imporing that we ought to stab this god to death with the devil's pitchfork than that he should have created us programmed to love him.

 

Hope this clears things up a bit for you.

 

Cheers,

D.

any respectable deity who really did want all to be saved would actually find a way to do it

And He has. I won't waste my time explaining it to you since you seem to have selective memory loss anyway....

The point this person is making

 

sounded like a fight-provoking rant to me!

Real atheists dont waste much time thinking about religion

Real atheists dont waste much time thinking about religion

 

Lol now that makes sense! Why would they? I don't believe in Santa Claus and I don't waste time thinking about it or arguing with little kids about it.

 

If I was not a believer in God, then I wouldn't waste time bothering about it either, i'd just think, oh those poor disallusioned, childish people... when are they gonna evolve into modern intellectuals?

 

I'm not being sarcastic here. I have friends who are atheists who think like that, and it is fine. I completely understand that.

 

Now, Barefoot, you sound to me like you're just incredibly mad that at the whole notion of this God you've been hearing about and that you hate Him, right? I am sorry you feel that way and I understand how you can think all those things against Him.

 

The thing is, it is hard to understand God unless you know Him, and it is hard to know Him unless you want to, and then there's that circle that if you have a negative image of Him, of course you're not going to want to know Him and then of course you're not going to know Him cause He is the Ultimate Gentleman and doesn't force Himself on anybody.

 

About the hell and fire and eternal torture stuff, yes I understand how you think God is not good because of that and because of all the pain and suffering and injustice on earth and because of stuff in the Old Testament that really truly does not sound very loving. Yeah I understand that and it hurts me to hear that this is the image you have of God, and I know it is logical to have this image.

 

I'll pray for you, cause even though I understand why you hate the notion of God, that is not who God is. Yes the Old Testament is true and yes there is pain and suffering and injustice on earth and yes there is hell and fire and I'm not sure about the eternal part of hell but there is definitely hell, but this is only a corner of the big picture.

 

God is greater and bigger than the whole universe... than all the galaxies and all the stars and do you know how terribly small we people are in comparision to the universe as a whole? Yet we are significant to God! which is amazing...

 

God loves us. God actually experienced pain for us through Jesus Christ, and God is with us and knows the pain we are experiencing and the injustice in the world.

 

Think about this... the earth is just a tiny blot in the universe. Our lives are just a tiny blot on the tiny blot of earth, yet God knows each one of us and loves each one of us. Our physical time on earth is just a tiny blot of Time. Eternity is forever, and the pain, injustice, evil on earth during this tiny blot of time is nothing in comparision to Eternity.

 

The physical is just temporary. The spiritual is eternal.

 

I'm sorry for how you feel, but please know God knows and understands how you are thinking, and He does care for you and love you even though right now you hate Him.

 

The God of the bible is a total jackass especially in the old testament. If He was real I'd probably punch His lights out. Christians ask me "well what if you find out you are wrong after you die." Well I guess I'm screwed then aren't I?

 

A clerk in the judgement room tells you to peek through a window to see heaven which looks as good as you'd expect. Then you check the other window for hell, which is as grim as you'd think.

 

"I hear" says the clerk "that you think the boss is a sh*t?"

 

barefoot: "I'm no hypocrite nor coward. I said it down there, and I'll say it here. Total psychopath."

 

clerk: "Correction. He used to be a narcissist not a psychopath. Then he visited Earth in human form."

 

barefoot "I know all that..."

 

clerk "Time at the coal-face of humanity taught him some empathy and respect for his creations. Especially when he started to consider how sore the purification and crucifixion was going to be. So he rewrote the rules a bit. Became more open-hearted. Then he got crucified..."

 

 

pause...

 

 

barefoot: "go on..."

 

man "I know what you're thinking. It's all a bit reminiscent of the backlash against feminism. God tried out being a nice guy for size, got crucified for his trouble. Feels aggrieved about the whole thing. Into manliness in a big way now. Will respect you for the Tough Guy, no **** stance you're taking. Maybe even 'surprise you' with a seat at the top table in heaven. A reward for being candid and direct in your views about him. Right?"

 

barefoot "I...."

 

man: "It really depends how he's feeling. Some days - yes, you might. If you can pull the whole cocky 'not scared of anything' stunt convincingly when you're standing in front of the deity who created everything in a matter of days. If he's having a 'very much got it altogether now and feeling emotionally strong' day, he might appreciate and enjoy hearing once again that you think he's a psychopathic, over-rated piece of sh*t who should be kicked from Land's End to John O' Groats and back again twenty times a day."

 

barefoot "Purely out of casual interest. What's his mood like today?"

 

man (whistling through his teeth as he takes a sharp intake of breath). "The crucifixion left him feeling a bit emasculated. More than 2000 years of therapy haven't achieved as much as we hoped they would. He gets mood swings. Takes steroids regularly...."

 

barefoot "I can handle myself just fine..."

 

man "We've watched your entire life from up here, remember."

 

barefoot "I'm not afraid to take a kicking"

 

man "Ahahahahaha. God works out several times a day, using exact replicas of the Eiffel Tower as handweights. He also practices yoga, ballet and pilates regularly to increase grace and flexibility, and to get in touch with his feminine side."

 

barefoot "what fot?"

 

man "When the Deity feels ladylike, he takes a jaunt to Hell. You know how some businessmen like to take a weekend breaks in Bangkok...?"

 

barefoot "I think it's soooo cool the way God paints pretty colours in the sky every so often to apologise for the flood. I also think that even in my darkest hours, on some subconscious level I somehow knew he was with me. In fact I know it. One time I was lying by this waterfall enjoying many of God's marvellous creations and feeling so small and humble. This most glorious looking blue and yellow butterfly flittered by. I told myself, Barefoot...."

 

man: "Take a read of this...."

 

Everybody takes risks in life. If for some reason christians are right and I'm standing before a holy God I would hope He would give me a few minutes to say a few final words before an angel throws me into the lake of fire.

 

barefoot "I really was just kidding. You see, I've always liked to..."

 

God "Time's up. Throw him in."

One thing that really turns me off is that christians refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. What I mean by that is they like to hide behind the bible and use it as an excuse to proselytize their beliefs on others.

 

They will never take responsibility for the persecution that they bring on themselves through their own self righteous and condescending ways.

 

Many times they'll say "well I didn't say you are an unclean sinner on your way to hell. God said it in his word so take it up with Him." No. How about you own up to the responsibility of what you are preaching instead of hiding behind a book? You can't just make excuses and claim that you are only following orders from a book!

 

Yes I have every right to be concerned about what christians do with their beliefs. Many of them are not satisfied with just practicing their beliefs without using their beliefs to control the lives of others around them. Either your beliefs need to conform to reality or reality needs to conform to your beliefs.

 

The God of the bible is absolutely sadistic and disgusting. He's not worth any respect or worship. The only thing this idiot is good for is to be shot. If I ever did meet this God I'd love the privilege of blowing his brains out!

If for some reason christians are right and I'm standing before a holy God I would hope He would give me a few minutes to say a few final words before an angel throws me into the lake of fire. That's what our earthly judges do in the court room. They give the defendant a chance to say a few words before the bailiff escorts them off to jail.

 

but if you know in your heart of hearts there's no God, and the one being touted is a so-called jerk, what would it matter that you get your rebuttal should you end up before a holy tribunal? It's not as if God doesn't have your number already.

 

or do you just want assurance that you'll get your pound of flesh?

 

as for your fellow atheists selling out ... well, it's kind of like saying you can and will only wear the color green because it's the only color you will allow yourself to like. No one "just" limits themself to one color ... nope, they'll jazz up the scene with some favorable hue that complements their favorite color, or even provides sharp contrast to better appreciate what your color is capable of doing. Or in terms of politics, no one is 1000 percent dammitcrat or repoopllican, but somewhere in the middle, and they tend to lean toward the candidate who best matches their ideals. Even if it comes down to choosing someone from the same party!

 

nope, I'm guessing that your atheist colleagues are able to look past those things that separate them from their believer friends to find common ground while being respectful of what the other side is saying. There are a few atheists on this forum I think are good eggs because they're capable of presenting their argument/POV in a manner that isn't rude or confrontational. I don't think they realize it, but in their own way, they help strengthen me in my own faith because they help me to see things in a whole other way, and the nice part is that no one expects each other to switch to the other team. They just want to make things clearer ... for both sides. And I've got to admire them for that.

 

so, if it floats your boat to denigrate someone with an opposing belief, go right ahead. Just know that the point you're trying so hard to make is going to go unheard because people will turn a deaf ear to what they feel is ranting.

 

 

I never said that I didn't believe in God. I said that I don't know and I really don't care whether he exists or not. I simply don't share his values and opinions about how I should be living my life. That's just it. Apparently God can't handle that some of his creatures are going to have different opinions on how to conduct their lives.

 

Unlike my condescending atheists who think I'm damaging their cause I'm not trying to convert anybody to anything. They have an agenda to convert people. I could care less really what anyone believes as long as they don't use those beliefs to control my life.

 

I swear to God if I ever met Him I'd tell him what I tell every single evangelistic prick I come in contact with this:

 

"No thanks. I'm not interested in your crappy salvation. I prefer damnation! Now piss off! I've got to get busy living in sin!"

 

As I said before I enjoy blaspheming the Holy Spirit every chance I get.

You've really raised the bar, barefoot. I bet the Christians here are starting to think that even I don't seem that bad afterall.

 

Cheers,

D.

How could atheism be given a bad name? It's not a belief, it's a understanding, it's a accepting that we are on our own and must do everything in our power to stay alive.

 

Many people (religious) would panic to the thought that "hey, we need to fend for ourselves." It's a matter of security vs. freedom. God is security: it makes you feel safe, gives you rules, something that many people need, and secularity is freedom: the thought that you have to fend for yourself and decide what is right.

Do you believe god exists, but simply not want any part of it Barefoot?

barefoot880,

 

You are a satanist not an athiest. There is a difference between the two.

 

I am not going to argue with you.

 

Whether or not you are saved is your choice. There is nothing noble or admirable about what you are doing. I don't think your protest will ammount to anything. You can't force God's hand by boycotting heaven.

barefoot880,

 

You are a satanist not an athiest. There is a difference between the two.

 

I am not going to argue with you.

 

Whether or not you are saved is your choice. There is nothing noble or admirable about what you are doing. I don't think your protest will ammount to anything. You can't force God's hand by boycotting heaven.

 

You honestly think that I really care to be a part of heaven if the God of the bible is running it? There's nothing desirable about living there especially if the majority of people are damned.

 

Of course you are not going to argue with me because I've backed you into a corner. Your religion does not encourage you to take responsibility for the things you preach. You just think you can hide behind the bible.

 

You have such a cavailar attitude towards my salvation for someone who professes to believe in eternal hell. You either really don't believe hell exists or you don't care who goes there.

 

Well if hell is real then I guarantee you'll go there faster than I will because if you really believed in it and you really cared at all then you would be spending every waking second banging on people's doors and begging them to accept Christ.

 

I heard a preacher the other day on radio say "If you choose to go to hell I don't care and neither does God. It's your choice." Wow. Why would I want to worship that God if he didn't care that I chose to go to hell? Why would I want to serve a God who didn't care enough to persuade me not to go to hell?

 

In some ways I hope your God really does exist so I can have an opportunity to kick his MFing a$$ to sunday!

And another thing too. Moose commented earlier to another unbeliever and commended him for his politeness in disagreeing with christian doctrine.

 

My question to christians is this. Do unbelievers who show more tolerance & respect for your beliefs suffer less punishment in hell than unbelievers who have zero tolerance for your beliefs?

 

If it's the same punishment then why do you care whether I show tolerance and respect for your beliefs or not? That should be the least of your concerns if my soul is in danger of hellfire either way.

My question to christians is this. Do unbelievers who show more tolerance & respect for your beliefs suffer less punishment in hell than unbelievers who have zero tolerance for your beliefs?

Being friendly is one thing, but you must be part of the family to get an inheritance.

If it's the same punishment then why do you care whether I show tolerance and respect for your beliefs or not? That should be the least of your concerns if my soul is in danger of hellfire either way.

You seem to welcome punishment. You'll get what you deserve eventually.

I have some athiest friends and I don't have debates with them and they don't try to convince me of anything, just like I am not Jewish or Muslim, I don't go bashing them for being different because I respect their beliefs, I just don't believe in them for myself.

 

So athiests who are out there bashing Christians, why aren't they out there bashing Jewish people or Muslims? Because it's politically incorrect? Athiests who have an agenda to bash Christians are idiots.

Yes what you believe does matter. Respect has to be earned. Why should I respect a person's belief when they cannot offer hard evidence for it? Why is that worthy of respect?

 

If a christian believes that this country should be governed by biblical principles then are you going to respect that belief? I know I wouldn't! Why? because there are many christians out there who want to use their beliefs to govern society.

 

I'm sure christians would love the idea that someone like me would face fines and/or imprisonment for taking God's name in vain. Afterall it's their desire to run this country by the 10 commandments.

 

For far too long religion has been given a free ride. Somehow religion is given special privileges and thinks it should be immune from criticism.

I honestly don't know why the Athiest community would have any agenda in trying to convert anyone. To us, there is no consequence for not believing in a higher power with the decision to send someone to heaven or hell.

 

If you don't believe a higher power governs your life- why bother wasting energy trying to "save" people from their faith and beliefs.

 

I don't care what others believe or whether or not they pray to a god I don't believe exisits. I care how people treat me and judge them soley on that. I only want others to judge me in the same way. Most of the Athiests I know approach life and friendships in the same manner.

 

Live and let live.

 

If I die and find myself in an afterlife where I am about to be judged and sentenced to eternal torture I'll be pissed at all the money I spent on getting a religious studies degree. But hey- if Constantine lived the life he did and was forgiven.... surely I could reason with an omnipotent entity that I don't deserve to be punished for eternity.

 

The only false idols I ever worshipped was my smurf collection when I was 9. They lived in mushroom huts and were always nice to one another...

I honestly don't know why the Athiest community would have any agenda in trying to convert anyone. To us, there is no consequence for not believing in a higher power with the decision to send someone to heaven or hell.

Not everybody shares that opinion. I happen to believe that there are very serious consequences to overzealous belief in stupid things. It affects how people think, and how they treat others. Exclusivist beliefs encourage people to isolate themselves from those who are different, and to look the other way when they are mistreated.

 

My agenda, though not as an atheist (so perhaps I'm slightly hijacking here), is for people to recognise that they have a burden of responsibility to everyone, not just those in their own country, their own tribe, their own race, their own religion, etc.

If you don't believe a higher power governs your life- why bother wasting energy trying to "save" people from their faith and beliefs.

I would not consider it a waste at all to attempt to save people from harmful beliefs and self-destructive behaviour.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

I would not consider it a waste at all to attempt to save people from harmful beliefs and self-destructive behaviour.

 

Cheers,

D.

you want to save us from joy, peace, kindness, patience and hope, so we can have depression, hatred, unforgiveness, strife and hopeless?