[knitwit]

Hi Condor,

I mostly lurk but wanted to post on this thread (sorry in advance- this is a long response!). I travel for work frequently and have worked it out with my husband. I wanted to give you my thoughts on your situation as someone who lives this day in and day out.

Really, there is nothing in your post about your wife that sends out a strong signal of cheating. There could be more going on, especially if her relationship with her co-worker is a little too close for your comfort. However, based strictly on the actions you've described so far, she is doing normal business stuff for road warriors.

At least in my field (drug/device development), it is pretty common for men and women to travel together. I travel mostly on my own currently, but I spent 5 years traveling with three guys (usually it would be me and one of them going on a trip at a time). It was completely normal to have dinner together- we'd either dine together with the client, or we'd dine together with just the two of us to review the day and plan for the next day. If we managed to have some free time afterward, we'd go check out the sites. We'd even go to bars on occasion (OK, most occasions!) for an evening drink, then back to our individual hotel rooms to finish working for the day. This was so normal that I never once thought anything of it. We all stayed in contact with our significant others (spouse for the guys), but it was never questioned that when out on the road, there would be dinner and possibly even some sight-seeing. We were all a team.

I changed jobs two years ago, and since then, the few times that I have traveled with a colleague, it's been a female colleague. However, it's the same routine: work during the day, grab dinner/drinks and discuss/plan, when possible see the sites, go back to our individual hotel room and finish work for the day.

Really, its the same thing whether the employees involved are male or female, married or not. Its just business- even the "off time" is business when you're on the road traveling with other employees.

As far as pictures go, I definitely take pictures when I have the chance to get out and check out the scene. I've never hesitated to have a colleague take my picture with my camera(I've even asked strangers to do so), I've never thought it odd that a colleague took my picture with his or her camera, and I haven't hesitated to have my picture taken with a colleague, male or female. We'd send copies of the photos back to our work group and yes, possibly post them on Facebook if the colleague was also a personal friend. At my current job, these type of pictures get posted our own company website (internal pages) sometimes. At my old job, we'd post them on our bulletin board.

Whoever took your wife's picture made sure she got a copy, and she made sure that you saw it. I know it seems odd to you that another man took it, but would it strike you as being just as odd if a female colleague took it, posted it on Facebook, and gave her and you a copy? This is not a vacation we are talking about- this is a work trip. She didn't just up and decide to go away for a weekend with a few friends who she selected to be her travel mates. She goes with the work team, and that person happened to be a male. IF this is strictly business, marital status really should not come into play. All workers- male or female, single or married- have the same rules. We all get our own rooms. It is NOT COOL to hit on another colleague, ever. You want to have a good working experience- be professional, get the job done, and have a good down-time with the team. Stay within your boundaries. Having dinner together, even a few drinks, and taking photos are all within the boundaries, in my experience.

Basically, I or my other colleagues have done everything you've described on your list. I have never cheated (while traveling or otherwise), and to my knowledge, none of my male colleagues have ever cheated. None of the actions you've described would even give me pause with any of my colleagues.

OK, all that said: of course, people still can, and do, cheat, start relationships, have affairs, etc. It is easier to cheat when you're on the road, there is no question about it. If your gut is telling you something, by all means listen to it! Work in general is an environment where it is easy to have emotional affairs. Is the person she's traveling with becoming a "Work Husband"?

I would watch the relationship between your wife and her fellow work partner just as you would any other working relationship. Life on the road does provide "easy access" for cheating if a person wanted to do it- but there is "easy access" anywhere. If you look on the Other Woman/Other Man or Divorced/Separated threads, you'll see that the vast majority of people who cheat do so in their own backyards, and frequently the OM/OW is a co-worker.

I will also say that traveling really can take a toll on one's relationships. At first, my husband did have a hard time with it. He explained to me that I'd done nothing to make him nervous, but he had been cheated on in the past & this made him sensitive to the opportunities that exist for cheating while I'm on the road. I am so glad my husband discussed his feelings with me about it- I don't think it was easy for him. He was able to talk about his worries of me cheating, without making me feel like he was accusing me or that he was questioning my character. Because he was able to discuss this with me, I am more aware and able to consciously do things to help him feel more comfortable about with my job situation.

Here is what is working currently for us: Trust, but Verify, and stay transparent and connected. I call or text my husband every day at least once when I am on the road. If he calls or texts me, I either take the call or get back to him ASAP (sometimes I'll text him to let him know that I can't talk now but will call him back at XX time.) I am never unavailable for very long- really only if in a meeting or on an important call. I let him know where I am (he has my travel itinerary). I have all my trips up on our calendar. I try to make sure there are no surprises- if I am going to meet up with someone on the road (sometimes old friends/colleagues happen to be going to the same city- even site- that I am at the same time), he knows about it ahead of time.

Also, when I get back from a trip, we try to make sure that we have some time together before rushing off to other family obligations. I really feel like this is important- we have to re-connect in person and get a little bit of down-time together before anything else (we don't have kids, I imagine it would be a LOT harder to do so with kids.) I returned home last night from a trip and my husband had a nice steak on the grill and a bottle of wine waiting for me. He is the BEST!!!

One last thing- in my field, spouses are almost never invited to company dinners. This is a confidentiality issue primarily. With the cost-cutting measures going on in general, it would not surprise me at all to find that in other fields, spouses are no longer invited to company dinners. Again, this is not at all an automatic red flag to me- it's more like Business as Usual.

That said- who cares? My husband is coming in a business trip with me in Dec. He knows he'll be on his own for the day and early evening. He'll get to enjoy the beach while I am working. I will have to go to a company dinner with the client, but I will hop out as soon as I can professionally do so, and he and I will go have a late dinner together. I can't wait!!

If you haven't yet, please do talk with your wife about it. Your feelings are valid- they are your feelings! They count! I'd encourage you to let her know that you'd like to feel more connected to her (if that is what you're feeling), or you'd like to be more involved, or you miss getting to see her beautiful smile each day and you'd like to find ways to get a chance to experience it, even if only over the phone or web-cam. And if something in particular really bothers you, let her know. If there is something that will help you be more comfortable, let her know. Her reaction and willingness to work with you will tell you what you need to know.

Also, when she's away, do some really cool things for you. My husband goes on long motorcycle rides and hangs with his friends. He'll go see movies he knows I don't want to see. It's some "Me" time for him.

Good luck! Please post and let us know how it all works out.

[condor]

Thanks knitwit for your insight. Since we come from a LDR into one year of living together into one year of marriage we do keep in contact. Usually twice a day and maybe some texts during the day.

I am the one coming up with ideas to keep in touch and not her. Her work colleague and her started playing a game on facebook, to pass the time. I saw it on her profile and I told her thats a nice way for us to keep in touch. So i joined.

She is back today, which she had told me she would be back tomorrow so i had planned something nicely and taken the day off. Now thats up in smoke. I planned something nice for sunday too, but she said its ok its too much hassle just want to be with you.

She says things and does the opposite. She has struck a friendship with the specific male colleague from what i gather. She will be spending a couple of days with me and who knows where off to then.

She goes on these trips to save money to pay off debts she accrued while being unemployed ( which i had told her to be carefull, but she ignored me). To repay off the debts she would have to go on another 5 or so 2 week trips. I helped her out while she was unemployed for the monthly installments.

I have told her my feelings. She said to me that i accuse her of being a slut. I told her I trust you, I dont trust the other dick. The time you spend after work overseas is time we should be spending together. I didnt marry someone so that it can just be on paper. She just said it is as it is and unless i have another solution thats how it will be. Sometimes i wander if she is punishing me for not helping her out.

Money is money...happiness is the most important thing. A day doesnt go by where i feel like ****.

I will keep the thread alive whenever something to add or some news. Lets see how today goes and how the reunion after 3 weeks of her travelling.

ciao
c

[angie2443]

Originally Posted by condor

Thanks knitwit for your insight. Since we come from a LDR into one year of living together into one year of marriage we do keep in contact. Usually twice a day and maybe some texts during the day.

I am the one coming up with ideas to keep in touch and not her. Her work colleague and her started playing a game on facebook, to pass the time. I saw it on her profile and I told her thats a nice way for us to keep in touch. So i joined.

She is back today, which she had told me she would be back tomorrow so i had planned something nicely and taken the day off. Now thats up in smoke. I planned something nice for sunday too, but she said its ok its too much hassle just want to be with you.

She says things and does the opposite. She has struck a friendship with the specific male colleague from what i gather. She will be spending a couple of days with me and who knows where off to then.

She goes on these trips to save money to pay off debts she accrued while being unemployed ( which i had told her to be carefull, but she ignored me). To repay off the debts she would have to go on another 5 or so 2 week trips. I helped her out while she was unemployed for the monthly installments.

I have told her my feelings. She said to me that i accuse her of being a slut. I told her I trust you, I dont trust the other dick. The time you spend after work overseas is time we should be spending together. I didnt marry someone so that it can just be on paper. She just said it is as it is and unless i have another solution thats how it will be. Sometimes i wander if she is punishing me for not helping her out.

Money is money...happiness is the most important thing. A day doesnt go by where i feel like ****.

I will keep the thread alive whenever something to add or some news. Lets see how today goes and how the reunion after 3 weeks of her travelling.

ciao
c

I'm starting to see some red flags here. Again I ask you, what does your gut say about all this.

One thing I'll say, regardless of who she's out with on these trips, I don't think most relationships do well when the partners are away from each other that often. I realize everyone needs some "me" time, but this sounds like too much time away for a stable relationship. Maybe this will change after some time.

One more thing- please don't become a doormat. I've been there. It will get you nothing in the end.

[knitwit]

Hi Condor,

It sounds like you're really frustrated and angry right now. I would feel the same way based on the information from the above post, namely because it sounds like you're the one making a lot of effort and despite being the person who initiates the contact, you're still out of the loop (apparently she is getting tight with this co-worker from what you gather, with you for a few days, then off to who knows where.)

I was doing some of those same things as well- especially not fully letting him know where and when I was leaving, and honestly, I didn't realize it. I was being very thoughtless, mostly focused on the job. I think my husband felt a lot like you do now. He had to wake me up to what I was doing.

Here is how our talk went. He really gave me no logical out to make it about me at all- he kept to the "I" statements, saying, "I know this isn't about you- you are doing nothing wrong. I am having issues because of my past, and even though I know its not right, it still drives me crazy when you're away and I don't know what is going on. I don't even know when or where you're going. Last week, I called you on my way home from work to see what you wanted for dinner and you told me you were in [a different state]?!? I really need to know ahead of time when you're going so I can make plans appropriately.

"Also, I hate thinking that you're out having drinks, a beautiful woman alone among all these strange men. I know I can trust you, I know that you're not going out to pick up guys, I understand that you might like to have a glass of wine at the bar after a long day of work or travel- but in my head, I see a different situation. I don't know that you're going, when I do call I hear all these other people in the background, and I won't actually see you for however many days, so I sit feeling like cr*p for those days until you get back. I know these are MY feelings, that you're just doing your normal stuff, but I'd really like it if we can come up with a game plan to make it easier on me."

Well, huh. I still argued a little bit- I knew I'd told him about the trip a few times already- but even so, it all came down to the fact that he was uncomfortable and was asking for both of us to come up with solutions. Clearly I'd acted like a twit. He had every reason to feel worried and nervous, as I'd kept him in the dark- which is really bad behavior. Still, he made it about him and his feelings, not my wrong doing. When he spelled out his concerns they made total sense to me. I wouldn't like it either if I called only to find out my husband was another time zone away, sitting in a bar. I wouldn't like it if I were in a position to not know whether he was even going to be coming home that night not or not.

In a way, he backed me into a corner. I really couldn't pull off the "You think I'm a slut? That I'd cheat on you?" stuff. He removed that option. It all came down to: he was having a hard time, and was I willing to work with him to come up with some solutions to help him feel better about the situation.

If your wife came away from your talk feeling attacked, you might consider trying again, but keeping it all about you and your request. Try to avoid the Shoulds. Bring it all back to: you are uncomfortable, what can be done to help.

If I were in your shoes, I think I would feel very put-off, I would feel like she isn't really trying. It concerns me that you feel like you're married only on paper. What realistically can change that? Will only having her leave her job change that, or are there other things she can do?

I knew that my husband was angry- I just thought he was angry with ME because of my JOB, and I felt that, hey, I am bringing in the $$ with this job while he is an apprentice- yes, he is working, but at apprentice wages, and I am pulling my weight here. I felt like he needed to put on his Big Boy pants and deal.

I was SO WRONG. Looking back, it seems really crazy to me that I didn't realize that I was doing. I am a fairly intelligent person- how could I not know? But I really did not get it. I truly never realized that I wasn't letting him know when and where I was going. I really thought I DID let him know. I really thought I DID keep him in the loop. In reality, I was expecting him to know all about my job, the ins and outs, to keep track of all the details by conversation alone- I was not in reality with these beliefs.

I am hoping that your wife is like me, and just pretty much selfish and unaware. I can change both those things, and want to change them. But I did so because he changed his focus, took me off the defensive. It is really important to me that my husband is happy, that he is secure in the relationship. I would never, ever want him to feel like he is married only on paper.

It really does sound to me like you are trying- you are keeping in contact, you're taking time off to be with her, you are trying to make her return and the time she has with you very special. Kudos to you! You sound like you're really working to be a great husband! You are definitely putting in the effort! I really hope that she will realize the effort you're putting in, and will reciprocate. If not, you are going to find out an unfortunate truth about your wife very early on. I hope that isn't what happens.

Also, I also totally agree with Angie- too much time apart can easily kill a relationship. 10 weeks away (five trips, two weeks each) is a KILLER schedule. That would challenge anybody- I can't even imagine it. I hope that after she reaches her goal, she is able to either change jobs, or at least lessen the travel to a much more manageble schedule.

Best of luck to you, and please keep posting!

[tinktronik]

I don't know about this one too. You're in a town you haven't been there before and you happen to be with a coworker, it would be cool to have pictures of the trip of someplace you've never been in the touristy moments. I would say this is a no harm no foul moment.

[condor]

Well she came back. It took some time for us to re-calibrate again to each other. About a day or two. I saw her at home and she was on the phone with work...and this lasted another 30mins. Suffice to say i said something about it

The said co-worker is on another trip with another female colleague and she told me he is engaged but in a complicated relationship. When my wife goes on trips I "throw" into her bag a teddy bear i had won at a fare with my cologne. The male colleague had seen it when he came to my wife's hotel room to discuss some news about their boss and my wife told him about it and he told her how a 30yr old woman shouldnt have teddy bears. My wife showed me the pictures she took with her phone (not the ones on facebook..no mention). She kept on...almost reminding me...that most days they would eat after work and then go to their rooms and play the game. Since the male colleague doesnt have internet access from home their communications will be limited. They got approached while overseas to maybe start a franchise with similar services in our country, but I dont think that will go anywhere due to its newness and riskiness.

I am possibly having to go overseas for a week of study sometime next year and i found it quiet cute that my wife asked me if she could come along. I would have taken her with anyway ...

She is due on going on another trip sometime before the end of this year. So its like we dont settle into a routine.

She tells me she needs me and feels good when she is around me. She cant answer me the "why". Though it did bug me that when we chatted over this weekend and if there was a link she would mention the colleage. E.g. Internet Access, Boss-Teddy Bear etc.

When we chatted about the matter, as knitwit prescribed, (and i only read now), I did make sure to use "I" dont feel good about this and its not you.

I think i have seen that marriage has to do with [aying attention to other person.

I'll keep the thread open whenever i see there is some news to share
thanks
c