[hopeless]

It just seems like women go for goofs. Why? This is a serioius question.

I have half a dozen single male friends, all well educated, kind, gentle, good looking, talented, good jobs. They can't get a date to save their life. Maybe its because we live in Vancouver, BC,
where women are known for their hatred of men. But still, generalizations are always false, but I am absolutely confounded.

In my last 2 relationships I was hit, kicked, screamed at, abused verbally and physically by women. They were weaker and smaller than me, thank God, so they did little damage when they;

a. backfisted me in the face while driving
b. screamed I HATE YOU in public places
c. punched and kicked me in the legs
d. broke my possessions

Now, I know what you women will say. WHAT DID YOU DO TO MAKE HER THAT ANGRY? But you see, thats hypocritical, because if a man hits a woman, they say "HOW DARE YOU?". So, its okay for women to abuse men but not for men to hit women. I would prefer that nobody hit anybody, but thats just me.

So I gotta throw down the gauntlet, flame resistant suit on.

a. Women, you get what you asked for;.......big macho lugs seem to win, caring, gentle educated men lose. So does this mean in order to marry I must become a boozing, macho, swaggering louse?
b. Women, you seem to want me and reject us at the same time. Or is Lesbianism so rampant that straight relationships are a thing of the past?
c. Women, you spend thousands of dollars on mini skirts, heels, makeup, hair, jackets, purses, do you do it so that other women can compete with you for who looks the hottest? Because you certainly arent doing it for men.

I guess these are age old questions, the war of the sexes. But honestly, I am at the point of just being gay because basically girls, you are high maintenance.

Flame, reassure, debate, question, but I hope that women reading this understand how y'all look to us single men.

Its a friggin hopeless situation. No?

[jenny]

er.. i understand that you are angry. and i sense you're frustrated by other, real, problems. so let's get this out of the way so no one dismisses you as a burn out troll, ok?

1. geography does not determine temperment.
2. 'generalizations are generally incorrect.' blah blah blah - i'm sure you know. generalizations usually function as a way to release frustration.

my question to you is: what are you frustrated about, exactly? what do you think is happening here? most people go through life without too much violent drama, despite what the media might suggest. do you think there is a reason you are drawn to these violent women, even subconsciously?

more specifically, what happpened in your last break up? why did you guys break up? how about the relationship beforehand?

as for now - are you being rejected, often, and hence your frustration about the package of women not matching their collective intent? because, man, there are better ways to deal with not getting laid.

anyway, i did *not* take offense at your post. but i do hope your next one is more personal and rigourous about your own situation.

[hopeless]

Hi Jenny, thx for yer constructive answer. But first, before I start introspecting, tell me, is there a small chance I am right? My frustration is in seeing so many good men passed over and so many women go after idiots.

My own situation, let me learn more about this board first. I never like others to more about me then I know about them. There are various myths at play;

a. all men only want sex.......not true
b. i am drawn to abusive women out of a pattern of behavior, it could be true, but just as likely that women like to abuse, did you see Monster? It aint so rare. Please, DONT BLAME THE VICTIM OF ABUSE......blame the abuser.

So the tone of your response, while on the surface, caring, is really kind of controllling, it assumes negative behaviors on my part, as if I am choosing abusive women. There is a chance, you must admit, that abuse of men by women is widespread.

Naw, on second thought, Jenny, we should let it slide for now. I gotta understand the mind set on this board. I see alot of hope here, I am getting the sense that women are actually human, and thats encouraging.

[GiveAndTake]

I agree with you Jenny.

There is a reason why people are drawn to certain 'types' of people.

To hopeless...

Think about when you were a kid. Were your parents violent? Your mother specifically? How about older sisters? Were they violent? Any female in authority that was violent could be the reason you're attracted to these types of women now. It's very common.

I think we are drawn to the negatives we grew up with because it gives us a chance to retaliate as an adult.

But, unfortunately, we never really do retaliate because unless our dysfunction gets resolved, we never become adults mentally so we just keep repeating the pattern.

[hopeless]

I have seen nothing but violence from women since I was young, you are right. Every woman I dated or married was violent. What about you? Do you hit your bfs? Do you scream at them and belittle them? Might be so, might be so.

My relationships had many good aspects. Every man I know has been either hit, controlled or verbally abused. Its so common I am beginning to be......hopeless.

My own situation, i have had thousands of dollars worth of counselling. I am only interested, u2, in whether you have had counselling too? Have you been the patient, for if that is true, then maybe you can play doctor.

Sorry for the cranky tone of my response.......its just that I get sick of the old party line;;;;;;;;most of what u2 are saying is Oprah Winfry stuff........negative childhood, negative patterns, drawn to what is worst for us...its like a common mythology, pop psychology.

Now, I know you are answering sincerely, but the way u set up the discussion in your reply, forces me into a corner. I am supposed to confess all the horrible things that happened to me to 2 strangers? First, tell me about yourselves, then there is 2 way communication and equal power. I need to know your inner demons as well, before I discuss mine. This makes for an equal power relationship, and healthy dialogue.

But simply assuming that I am selecting bad mates.......its an assumption.

What I am really saying is its hopeless. After 10 grand in psychotherapy literally years of working on ME......i see few women doing the same. They all jsut throw these Oprah Winfrey party lines around, I mean its like a bloody Sarah McLaughlin concert, full of sunflower seed muffins, calico cats and ladies who call themselves wimmin.

What I am saying is..........look at yourself. Honestly, sincerely, what I am saying has truth. Not ready for the Oprah thing until I get a sense that you are as wiling to vulnerable on this board as you expect me to. Set an example, come clean, what is YOUR love life like?

[jenny]

hmmm. i take your point. i'm just trying to respond to you as though you were a female friend, actually, and i do, in fact, tend to force the 'take responsibility for the consistent patterns of behaviour' response.

so, it's not gendered, but possibly controlling. i do very much like personal accountability. i can't read where you are in all of this: but i don't believe your repeated appearance with abusive women, nor your current philosophy, are random.

but, g-d, yes: you are soo not responsible for your abuse at the hands of these women: they sound like right proper bitches, in fact. sorry if i implied elsewise - that i totally did not mean to do. but that does mean i'm going to participate in a train of thought that suggests all women from vancouver are bitches: that would just be unproductive. i don't really get why you would take a personal problem and try to solve it that way.

so, to pony up emotionally: i also feel like i have suffered because of insane females in my life - i have never met a male who would behave in the way that at least 4 of the women i know would - and i do agree people tend to overlook rank insanity in women because it is considered their emotional perogative, which is crap.

but i look for this pattern too; my mother was brilliant and playful but also totally unreliable and illogical. she was never petty, though, and that is the worst thing i constantly encounter in women. in myself, too, of course.

[hopeless]

Thank you so much for your caring and thoughtful response, especially with my cranky reply. Okay, you got my attention Jenny. I can let down the frustration wall and maybe get somewhere.

Again, thx for being positive in the midst of my negativity. We making progress girl......we making progress here.

[FreeMe]

Originally posted by hopeless
In my last 2 relationships I was hit, kicked, screamed at, abused verbally and physically by women. They were weaker and smaller than me, thank God, so they did little damage when they;

a. backfisted me in the face while driving
b. screamed I HATE YOU in public places
c. punched and kicked me in the legs
d. broke my possessions
So, its okay for women to abuse men but not for men to hit women.

NO, No, No. It's not okay for women to hit men. That's horrible. None of the things you listed are acceptable - backfisted you in the face while driving? Cripes - that is very serious abuse. I'm a woman and I only know two women who were crazy enough to do all that but these two are the exception. Of all the other women I know and have known, none of them would do things like that.

The things you mention above are severe abuse - if the women had been stronger you could have been hurt badly. What you're experiencing is not normal in my world. Maybe there is some cultural difference (I'm in the Northeastern U.S.) but even allowing for that it seems extreme. All I can tell you is that there are plenty of good, nice, caring women out there and it's a shame you're basing your opinion of us on women with severe problems understanding boundaries and respect.

[moimeme]

There is a tendency, as Jenny said, to resort to taking comfort in generalizations when one is frustrated and cynical. So the betrayed woman decides that all men are cheaters and liars. You know that to extrapolate from your own anecdotal evidence to the general is fallacious.

a. Women, you get what you asked for;.......big macho lugs seem to win, caring, gentle educated men lose. So does this mean in order to marry I must become a boozing, macho, swaggering louse?

One of the biggest, and most ridiculous myths. Generally perpetuated by 'gentle, nice guys' who are woefully unable to see or acknowledge their own flaws. My ex continually described himself as a 'nice guy'. He hadn't the slightest concept of how not nice he was. So I tend to look askance at these 'nice guys' who believe this BS. A second point about this is that I am sure these 'nice guys' have not spent a whole lot of time getting to know the 'jerks' they think are getting the women who may not be 'jerks' at all. Bottom line on this little myth: BOGUS.

b. Women, you seem to want me and reject us at the same time. Or is Lesbianism so rampant that straight relationships are a thing of the past?

We want good men. Honest men. Kind men. We sometimes mistake a fellow for same, only to discover that, after all, they don't live up to their advertising. Then we reject you. Again, look a little closer at you - are you absolutely positive that you are that wonderful human being you imagine yourself to be? Even if you are, we can all stand improvement - find things which could use adjustment and work on them. We especially want men who don't spout these old, tired generalizations as though they are new, brilliant revelations. Guess what? Cynicism isn't really very attractive. If you wear this attitude, you can bet women will not stick around.

c. Women, you spend thousands of dollars on mini skirts, heels, makeup, hair, jackets, purses, do you do it so that other women can compete with you for who looks the hottest? Because you certainly arent doing it for men.

Some do, some do not. Some men like it, some do not.

There is a chance, you must admit, that abuse of men by women is widespread

The stats say that female-to-male abuse occurs at about the same rate as male-to-female abuse, but women do less physical damage and don't kill in nearly the numbers that men do.

Honestly, sincerely, what I am saying has truth

No, but if you believe this stuff, you will certainly turn a lot of women off.

Maybe there is some cultural difference (I'm in the Northeastern U.S.) but even allowing for that it seems extreme.

Now that's just ridiculous. Vancouver women are not some sort of cultural anomaly, for pity's sakes.

Hopeless, nobody says it's your 'fault' that you have ended up with abusive women, and after X number of bucks in therapy, you should have already heard that and understood it. What it does mean is that you learned 'love' in conjunction with 'abuse' and therefore your brain sees 'abuser' and thinks that's where love will be found again.

I don't care how many bad experiences you have had or what's befallen you, it is unhelpful to you and your case to become cynical and adopt the attitudes you profess above. That sort of thing is definitely off-putting. I think some men feel that women will rush to rescue them from their bitter selves - not gonna happen. You'll not find ladies flocking to you until you can figure out how to turn your attitude around.

[FreeMe]

Originally posted by moimeme

Maybe there is some cultural difference (I'm in the Northeastern U.S.) but even allowing for that it seems extreme.

Now that's just ridiculous. Vancouver women are not some sort of cultural anomaly, for pity's sakes.

I meant Canada in general from where I'm from.

[moimeme]

I meant Canada in general from where I'm from

It's still stupid. It has nothing to do with the geographic area. It's fairly common for people coming from abusive situations to find abusive situations again and again in life. Children of alcoholics marry alcoholics. It has to do with conditioning and nothing to do with what sort of women live where.

[fredrolin]

Originally posted by hopeless
I have half a dozen single male friends, all well educated, kind, gentle, good looking, talented, good jobs. They can't get a date to save their life.

I know several smart educated attractive women who only date losers. Why? some like "The Bad Boy" or they go for looks.
It seems like every time they date a "normal" guy as in the quote above, they find them boring, wishy washy or less of a challenge.

It's crazy but it's true.

Before I got married I usually dated overweight or homely girls because the good looking ones were alot of work to satisfy or just plain crazy.

[FreeMe]

Originally posted by moimeme
I meant Canada in general from where I'm from

It's still stupid. It has nothing to do with the geographic area.

I said CULTURAL differences, not geographic. Big difference.

[i]It's fairly common for people coming from abusive situations to find abusive situations again and again in life.

I completely agree with you. I've done it myself.

[moimeme]

Cripes. OK, let's cover all bases. Canadian women are not brought up to be abusive. There is no culture of abusive women in Canada. It is not longitudinally, latitudinally, culturally, linguistically, religiously, historically, astrologically, astrophysically, psychologically, physiologically, biologically, or in any other way true.

[FreeMe]

LOL - I didn't mean they were brought up to be abusive. In some cultures the women are more aggressive, less likely to put up with crap. I wish I was from one of them. LOL