[ai75]

Hi all. I left my job last August and started soul searching. Went on a mini-sabbatical to Europe with my buddy from high school - Netherlands then Italy, 1 month total.

Small seaside town, having drinks at the only bar in town. Two attractive girls join our table (some guy we met invited them over). One saw me earlier, said "Hi" VERY flirtatiously... I'm shy by nature so I said "Hi" and kept walking. Once they sit, she hits on me without mercy... turned me off. I started talking to her friend, some guy they met there is also with them.

We all leave, sit on some giant rocks by the sea, and her friend kisses me. We go at it heavily for a good while, its really late, she asks that my buddy and I to join them the next day to a new city. We agree, she stands me up at our meeting point the next morning, we run into each other at the train station and off the 4 of us go... 10 days all over the country. BJ the next night (says she's at the end of her cycle), sex the rest of the time. Amazing time. Her friend is not interested in my friend but they get along.

She falls for me pretty hard, sobs as we part and says she wants to see me again "soon" (I'm in SoCal, she's in Vancouver). At that point it was a fling for me, but I did like her and said "sure, why not?". We stay in touch, she schedules a flight for the next month and now it gets interesting...

1 week before she arrives my younger brother (21 y/o) has an unexpected cardiac arrest due to a heart defect we had no idea he had... we are best friends. I leave Cali to be with my fam for the next 6 months. I inform her, she is a nurse, we talk every day, more and more each day (up to 10+ hrs) for the first month (skype video chat). My bro was in a coma in that time, we were told there was no shot, amazingly he awoke (with severe brain damage). Over that time I bonded with her like you wouldn't believe and tell her that I want to be with her... she's ecstatic and says that is all she ever wanted.

I ask the worst question ever... "did you get with anyone in our time apart?". She lies, its obvious, then confesses. I was hurt, then I learn it was a bar makeout with a random guy she barely spoke to, 3 days after I told her about my bro and her first night off work and at the bar... this after many heart-felt convos in which I told her how lucky I was to have her and she says she's been looking for me her whole life. I'm CRUSHED.

Now the madness... I ask about her past (yes, I know better now)... boyfriends one after another her whole life (4), with hookups and sex in between, sexually active since 15. Last bf was a 6.5 yr relationship and been "single" for just over a yr... In that time she was with ~20 different men (orig. 8, then more, more, more). Supposedly sex with only 2, oral with 4, rest were handjobs (do those even exist at this age? she's 28 btw) or makeouts. She is very kinky in bed btw. I also come to find the last guy she was with (sex) was a 20 y/o metal band drummer, short order cook. She says "I went after all those guys", "I'm a go-getter, I see something I want and I go get it", "I didn't want a bf", "I have no regrets, I wanted to do it and learned alot in the process", "I was drinking too much in that time period and have always needed male attention and cannot be alone", "I'm different now and will never go back", "I realize I was easy"... many valid points but...

Our relationship dragged out 7 brutal months (for only 1 month after I returned home) but we managed to see each other every few weeks, a week or so at a time (couple SD trips, 1 Vancouver trip, she even came to meet my fam once). She flirted heavily with other (random) men when we went out, constantly scanning the room, disclosed all our relationship info to her ex (6.5 yr relationship guy who had been waiting for to "find herself" and hoping she would come back to him the whole time) and spoke to him every couple weeks. When we were apart she would bring up interactions with men on her nights out... "he was trying to get me to leave with him", "some girl made out with this guy while I was talking to him", "all these guys are hitting on me", "I saw this guy checking me out all night so I went over and asked him why he's so shy and talked to him all night... he kept getting in my personal space", etc. AND she also lied to me about STD testing before we had unprot sex, luckily she was clean.

The entire relationship was toxic - I verbally abused her for the random bar hookup, her past, her flirty behaviours, her baggage: "slut", "pedafile" (for the 20 y/o), "bar whore", "you're the reason guys go to the bar", "willing, able and easy", etc. I was so emotionally unstable at that time - her, my brother, a career transition. These are NOT excuses for my behaviour, I deeply regret my viciousness towards her... I did not know any better. I didn't have the strength to leave her nor could I get over the issues at hand.

I finally left her last month after she told me "I ran across the bar and grabbed this guy's cool necklace, didn't see his wife next to him and she was pissed". I felt this was over the top, not the way I want any gf of mine to behave and the last straw. My life has been a mess since, I'm very depressed. My bro has made an amazing recovery but is permanently disabled and must live with my parents. I also have not worked since August and nearly out of money (6 months with my fam for support, only leaving visit her, returned to Cali last month).

Just before we split she finally decided to take a break from talking to her ex b/c she needed closure and baggage wasn't appropriate in a relationship (I told her this from the get go). Also said that she "doesn't mean to be flirty but can't change overnight... give her some time", "I'm just bubly, outgoing and a total extrovert". Says my issue with her flirtatiousness is me being insecure. I have received extensive therapy and I know I have more issues in life right now than just a relationship. I know that her past is none of my business, I volunteered to hear it... and boy was it UGLY. We should take people at face value, not judge them on the past.

I deleted her off facebook b/c I was looking at her profile every day, not healthy... she then calls me to ask why (we didn't speak for a month since the breakup b/c she told be never to call her unless I wanted to get back together, we can't be friends b/c she likes me so much). Tells me "You never liked me or you would show compassion and understanding and see that I'm trying to be a better person for the sake our relationship". Without me asking says "Don't worry I don't want to get back together", "I'm so much happier now". I can't blame her, I beat her up with words.

There are a few more significant details, but this is turning into a novel. However I would like thoughts re: her behaviour since we officially became a couple. I know mine were unacceptable, unable to react in a healthy way. I care for her deeply. We are a great fit, enjoy many of the same things, have similar philosophies on life, children, etc. She was there for me in my weakest moment, is very loving when we are together, she is cute and thoughtful... I could see a future with her. I just feel that too much damage has been done and that no self-respecting person would wait for someone to learn how not to flirt... she's 28!! Wait for her to drop her baggage. Wait for her not to need male attention above and beyond our relationship. Am I being uncompassionate? rigid? overly demanding? There's an amazing amount of potential between us... I think the fundamentals are not there - no room for baggage and flirting. Trust and respect are non-existant. Thoughts?

[Island Girl]

Originally Posted by ai75

She flirted heavily with other (random) men when we went out,

Completely disrespectful.

If I did that once I'd hear about it. If I kept at it after that I would expect that I wouldn't have a husband.
He'd walk.

I would do the same.

But then we wouldn't have married each other -- when that behavior presented itself we would have said "later" immediately.

Why waste time with someone who disrespects who hey are with and has no idea what healthy interactions and boundaries are? A person like her is just about pushing buttons. That sucks and shows no caring at all for you or your feelings.

Originally Posted by ai75

constantly scanning the room,

Again. Totally disrespectful. She was with you and you should have been her focus.

Originally Posted by ai75

disclosed all our relationship info to her ex (6.5 yr relationship guy who had been waiting for to "find herself" and hoping she would come back to him the whole time) and spoke to him every couple weeks.

Bad news. Bad BAD news dude. Why did you even stay with her??!!
Once you found out the story behind the ex and that they were still in contact it should have been a done deal.

Originally Posted by ai75

When we were apart she would bring up interactions with men on her nights out... "he was trying to get me to leave with him", "some girl made out with this guy while I was talking to him", "all these guys are hitting on me", "I saw this guy checking me out all night so I went over and asked him why he's so shy and talked to him all night... he kept getting in my personal space", etc. AND she also lied to me about STD testing before we had unprot sex, luckily she was clean.

She told you all of that crap to push your button and have you feeling insecure and needy.
There is NO REASON to share that kind of info other than trying to rub the other person's nose in something.
A partner who cares about you doesn't want to push your buttons, etc.

Talking that "shy guy" up all night was over the edge too.
She shouldn't be seeking out male attention.
And most especially in light of you being away and WHY.
She is an immature callous ****. <insert word - 4 letters and starts with a "C">

Originally Posted by ai75

The entire relationship was toxic

I completely agree.

Originally Posted by ai75

I verbally abused her for the random bar hookup, her past, her flirty behaviours, her baggage: "slut", "pedafile" (for the 20 y/o), "bar whore", "you're the reason guys go to the bar", "willing, able and easy", etc.

Never okay and I think you know that.
She was baiting you and pushing your buttons at a very difficult time in your life. There is no excuse for that either.

Originally Posted by ai75

I was so emotionally unstable at that time - her, my brother, a career transition. These are NOT excuses for my behaviour, I deeply regret my viciousness towards her... I did not know any better. I didn't have the strength to leave her nor could I get over the issues at hand.

Forgive yourself. Move through it and past it. But this is NOT the girl for you and you need to go NC and forget her completely.

Originally Posted by ai75

I finally left her last month after she told me "I ran across the bar and grabbed this guy's cool necklace, didn't see his wife next to him and she was pissed".

All of this running across the bar and grabbing necklaces, etc. shows how truly immature she is.
And if it were my husband there would be a problem.
Seriously, who does she think she is??!!

Originally Posted by ai75

I felt this was over the top, not the way I want any gf of mine to behave and the last straw.

It was way over the top and I am surprised honestly that you went on as long as you did with her.
She completely sucks. She sucks as a girlfriend for sure but she sucks as a person too.
She has some big time issues that she needs to address.

Originally Posted by ai75

My life has been a mess since, I'm very depressed. My bro has made an amazing recovery but is permanently disabled and must live with my parents. I also have not worked since August and nearly out of money (6 months with my fam for support, only leaving visit her, returned to Cali last month).

You were caught up in the abuse and the roller coaster. People often find that is a sort of addiction itself. Life is completely different without all of the added drama - and then on top of it there is the break up to get over.

Try reading Codependent No More. Find it and read it. It should help you a lot to understand why you participated in such unhealthy interactions with her- why you stayed "bought in" when so many would have walked waaaaaaay early on.

Originally Posted by ai75

Just before we split she finally decided to take a break from talking to her ex b/c she needed closure and baggage wasn't appropriate in a relationship (I told her this from the get go).

Yeah she is "taking a break" not ending it completely.
And you told her but she didn't respect anything you had to say to listen.

Originally Posted by ai75

Also said that she "doesn't mean to be flirty but can't change overnight... give her some time",

Bullsh*t. She means to do exactly what she does. And she crosses the line. She crosses the line in your relationship, she violates other people's boundaries and personal space, etc.

You should make sure she has as much time as she needs -- ALL of it forever -- and be DONE with this drama-ho.

Originally Posted by ai75

"I'm just bubly, outgoing and a total extrovert".

No. I am bubbly and gregarious.

She is an insecure attention whore who feeds on drama and attention not caring about anyone but herself most of the damn time.
And she is 28 years old.
The girls I see with these issues are usually 19-22!!

Originally Posted by ai75

Says my issue with her flirtatiousness is me being insecure.

We all can have times of insecurity. Being suddenly LD from our partner with huge life circumstances going on can stimulate insecurity and she did nothing but feed that monster.
Shame on her.
Shame on you if you keep opening your life up to her words and actions.

Originally Posted by ai75

I have received extensive therapy and I know I have more issues in life right now than just a relationship. I know that her past is none of my business, I volunteered to hear it... and boy was it UGLY. We should take people at face value, not judge them on the past.

It isn't her past I have any issue with. If you notice I cut that all out.
I am focusing only on what transpired in your relationship.
THAT is ugly enough.

Lesson learned right (asking about someone's past relationships or experiences is a bad idea)?
There is nothing you'll find out that'd help the relationship. If the news brings anything - it brings problems.
So now you know.

But the problems with this girl do not have anything to do with her past.
It is who she is now that is a problem. It is her lack of boundaries, respect for you, respect for others, self respect, immaturity, and insecurity that are HUGE problems.

Originally Posted by ai75

I deleted her off facebook b/c I was looking at her profile every day, not healthy

Good move. Start taking control of your life and take care of yourself.

Originally Posted by ai75

... she then calls me to ask why (we didn't speak for a month since the breakup b/c she told be never to call her unless I wanted to get back together, we can't be friends b/c she likes me so much).

You need to go NC. I wish you hadn't even answered the phone.

What she said about not calling unless you want her back and that she can't be friends because she likes you too much are classic manipulation tactics -- how can I tell? Because the second you did what was best for YOU and blocked her FB page she had to pick up the phone and push some buttons.

I wrote the book on what she is doing. She has MAJOR issues.

Originally Posted by ai75

Tells me "You never liked me or you would show compassion and understanding and see that I'm trying to be a better person for the sake our relationship". Without me asking says "Don't worry I don't want to get back together", "I'm so much happier now". I can't blame her, I beat her up with words.

Again, manipulation. Pure manipulation and orchestrated to get to you and push you over the edge.
Only caring about herself - not caring the least about you except wanting to be able to run back to you on occasion for attention (attention whore).

I am telling you. I did this SOOOOOOO many times and ripped guys apart.
I took time to myself and grew up. And I went through some therapy for things I discovered about myself introspectively.
It doesn't sound like she is going to be doing that -- at least not any time soon.

Originally Posted by ai75

We are a great fit, enjoy many of the same things, have similar philosophies on life, children, etc.

You aren't a great fit.

Honestly she is somewhat of a chameleon right now.

Please get on with your life and close the book on this relationship.
Once it turns this kind of corner it will never bring you the happiness you seek or deserve.

Originally Posted by ai75

She was there for me in my weakest moment, is very loving when we are together, she is cute and thoughtful... I could see a future with her.

If you spoke with my first real ex he'd tell you the same thing. And he is still mentally f'd up from dealing with that other part - the person who pushed your buttons continually, fed your insecurities, and called you to give you one good brain scramble this last time.
My guy dealt with that for 3 or 4 years - 15 or 16 years ago. And he still isn't okay.

Get out now. !00% and completely.

Originally Posted by ai75

I just feel that too much damage has been done and that no self-respecting person would wait for someone to learn how not to flirt... she's 28!! Wait for her to drop her baggage. Wait for her not to need male attention above and beyond our relationship. Am I being uncompassionate? rigid? overly demanding? There's an amazing amount of potential between us... I think the fundamentals are not there - no room for baggage and flirting. Trust and respect are non-existant. Thoughts?

Without respect there will never ever be a healthy relationship.

And it HAS already gone past the point of no return.

Quit focusing on who she was initially. Look at who you talk to NOW.
Not the same girl at all dude. That was the initial facade. This is more the real her. And she SUCKS.
She is a succubus. Look it up and remember that is what she is when you want to be in contact or she tries to contact you.

Please do not do this to yourself anymore.

[ai75]

Island Girl - I can't thank you enough. Your response was deep, thoughtful and carried sooo much credit coming from someone who was 'just like her' at one point in your life. Ordered Codep No More, learned a new word (succubus ) and going to visit the fam again next week! Really excited.

Also, she actually has seen a counselor (for 1 hr) but all she shared with me is - "my counselor said that 'this is how wives end up dead'" referring to the name calling/verbal abuse and inferring that it would escalate to physical abuse and then me killing her?! My counselor also mentioned that this had the potential to escalate to physical violence (despite it against everything I stand for and would NEVER happen... he said that's common in many cases of domestic violence). She also said "my counselor told me to run from you like the plague". I'm astounded that a professional would say these things... murder? run like the plague? I'm also under the assumption that she spent the hour talking about me and not so much her, although she did mention that she revealed keeping her ex up-to-date about our relationship and how that was not right... doubt she mentioned that she left him for another guy, portraying it as "needing time to find herself", then proceeding with path she chose for the next year. I actually posted a more refined/detailed version of this thread on the break up forum, in case you want to check that out as well. It details her relationship with her ex and until now, I never objectively looked at it and how vile it was and also can't believe I stuck around so long.

Additionally, she has a bunch of self-help books, "Course In Happiness" and something about children of alcoholics (her dad... she has lots of absent/drunk father issues), a few Dr. Phil books, etc. Just FYI from your comment about her not seeking therapy/introspective journey. All I can do now is forgive her for hurting me so bad, forgive myself for beating her up verbally, and hope she finds happiness in all aspects of life. I truly believe she came into my life for a reason... to comfort me during the early days of my brother's battle, provide an alternate crisis to focus on, and man... did I learn SO MUCH ABOUT MYSELF!! I can now truly thank her for all the good inside of her (I firmly believe there is a lot) and see that she is just like me... a lost soul and a crying child inside an adult's body.

Anyways, I still keep in touch with my therapist (30+ hrs total now) and it has been priceless... he is an amazing person with an incredible journey. Are you a therapist btw? Noticed you mentioned seeing her issues in girls 19-22 (your profile says you're an account exec). You are wonderful, thanks so much.

For the rest of you viewers out there, post a reply... PLEASE!! Each objective viewpoint gives me more strength and I need all I can get!

[life_is_life]

I'm majoring in counseling, so I can tell you straight off the bat: no self-respecting counselor would ever, ever use such heavy words. Counselors aren't even supposed to give such strong advice unless they know both sides of the story and doing so will avert a MAJOR crisis (I'm talking about rape, murder, that sort of things). Now, I don't know what she told the guy, but I'm really skeptical about what she told you about the advice she received.

From both your posts, it's obvious that this girl is having some major issues herself, and that she isn't entirely willing to get over them. You say she misbehaved repeatedly when you were out together. That, if anything, shows that even though she said she wanted to change, her heart wasn't 100% into it. Seems that this girl was playing you, using you for emotional support or ego boosting when she felt like it and tossing you aside for random flings when she got bored.

As for the things she told you after the break-up, she's playing you, using reverse psychology and such. As I said before, she was using you, and now that you're gone she wants you back so she can use you some more.

There's nothing wrong with demanding respect and fidelity in a relationship. You did the right thing by breaking up... now, you just have to wait for the wound to heal. I've read it takes time (never been there before myself, this is my first time), but when you're done, you'll be able to look back and say, "I've learned so much about myself. I'm healthier, stronger, and more confident than I was before. And I'm ready to love and be loved".

Remember: in order for a relationship to work, both partners must feel the same, have the same expectations and be willing to have the same level of commitment.

[Stark]

Also said that she "doesn't mean to be flirty but can't change overnight... give her some time", "I'm just bubly, outgoing and a total extrovert". Says my issue with her flirtatiousness is me being insecure.

I've had a few girls pull that one on me.

I've learned the perfect answer back which I say without question any time anybody says that flirting while in a relationship is fine and that you're insecure

"I'm more than happy with myself, infact so much that I don't need validation and attention from random strangers to feel good about myself. You might want to rethink on who the insecure one is here, I'm happy with myself and happy with your attention only. "

[icepop]

Island Girl's post is very insightful, Ai.

Believe me when I tell you that you need to listen to this solid advice. I was LDRing with a woman ( a nurse ) with 4 children who couldn't stop accusing me of cheating when I wasn't, but wouldn't hesitate to push buttons, knowing factually that I wasn't cheating. ( She was abandoned by her Mother, drunken 1st ex and beaten by her 2nd ). The list is damn near endless.

Swearing, hanging up on me were just some of the carnival thrill rides I was on with her. The list of disrespect goes on but needless to say I dumped her ass and then she came back to me and wanted to play again. I declined. I cut off all contact with her and have continued with this strategy. Believe me when I tell you aside form the outright disrespect, your feelings for her are a fantasy because of your vulnerability.

With my succubus, I didn't go crazy for too long, I just got sick and tired of it. I was lucky. I didn't wait for the bomb to go off. I just decided to get the hell out.

Picture the sign warning of nuclear radiation when you think of her. She is very toxic, even fatal.

Stay away from her. She will consume you. You will be a hollowed out shell, bereft of emotions and barely able to re-group.

I strongly urge you to move on the best you know how.