Is he right? Should I move on and forgive?

[RedFox]

Back story;

I was online friends with MM, I was engaged myself at the time. He was honest from the beginning, that he loved his wife, he was happy, he didn't want anything else. They'd been trying to conceive for years, and they were nearing the end of their options.

Something happened which bought us closer, and eventually crossed the lines and became an emotional affair. The day we met in person, it turned physical, and it was amazing for us both.

I ended the relationship with my fiance the day after returning home. Even though I had already betrayed my fiance, I couldn't continue with our relationship after cheating, and with the intense feelings that had developed for the MM. We had fallen for each other, hard. But he was adamant that he could never leave his wife.

I heard that, but I buried my head in the sand. I loved him, and constantly lived with hope. He spoke of a life together, dreams together, a life that I desperately wanted with him.

He kept saying that he'd never leave his wife, but wishing that we could have a life together. He claimed to love her and couldn't hurt her by leaving.

Then they started their last round of IVF. He was doubtful that it would work, and I was a self centered cow and prayed that it wouldn't.

But it did, and he told me 2 thirds into their pregnancy. I told him that I couldn't sit on the sidelines and watch him live the life that I wanted with the man that I loved, live it with someone else. I was selfish, they were living the dream that they had had for years, yet it was something that I so desperately craved.

He told me that he had been mentally and emotionally absent throughout the pregnancy. That in going through with the IVF and having a family, he would lose me, and he didn't want to lose me.

 

But I was adamant, so we said our goodbyes.

 

 

 

But of course, about a month or so later, something happened and we were in contact again... gradually falling into the same pattern. I felt like a hypocrite and an awful person for what I was doing, but I was in love, I buried my head in the sand to the pain that I was causing. I didn't want to know anything about his wife, or the baby... I wanted to be oblivious to reality.

 

 

After the birth of his child, he told me that he wanted us to have a life together, but he needed time. He didn't know when, but he knew that that is what he wanted.

He told me that he had always known that he wanted us to be together, but he had to give his wife the child that she always dreamed of, he had to give her something before destroying her life. That in having this child, he did it for us, for us to be together.

I could never accept that. I knew what I wanted, and I felt that if he truly wanted for us to have a life together, he would have ended the relationship before it progressed to this. Or for us to walk away and perhaps one day in the future, we'd find our way back together, if it was meant to be. But still, I stay.

He was/is adamant that neither our situations nor our relationships were the same, so it wasn't reasonable of me to expect him to leave as quickly as I did.

 

 

 

We do now have an estimated time frame, but it is quite a long way off in my opinion. And we are fighting more and more. I feel that I am sinking into depression... I feel lost, lonely, anxious, betrayed... and confused, because really, those feelings belong to the wife, not to me. (No, she doesn't know about us).

 

I never wanted to be a step mother, I never wanted for an ex wife (a woman who's life I have helped to destroy no less) to always be in our lives. How can I ever look at his child, and what would be his ex wife, and be able to live with myself at what I helped do to them?

 

I wanted for us to have a clean slate, to be able to start a new life together... but that is never going to be, and I feel that I cannot forgive him for the way he has gone about things, about the way he continues to go about things until he is ready for us.

 

 

 

He tells me that I need to forgive him, that he did it for us and that I need to accept that and forgive it. He says that if I can't let go of that resentment, that it will never be able to work out for us.

 

 

I'm not looking for sympathy. I know that I shouldn't have ever gotten myself into this situation, that I could have left (and still can), that I'm a self centered person for putting my needs above others, innocent people, for feeling entitled to something that I have no right to.

 

 

But is he right? Is this something that I should be able to forgive, for us to have a chance of a future together? (That is of course, if he does actually leave).

Do I even have a right to be upset by it? Considering that he never actually lied to me, and that really, I did know better, I just refused to acknowledge it.

 

I'm sorry, I'm very overwhelmed at the moment.

[pheonixrisen]

I think you are going a bit ahead of your self .

 

If he thought he was going to end up with you since a long time ago he would not have gone through another ivf to get his wife preg .mm who want to leave should not be going through process of getting wife preg they should be going in opp direction to ensure its not happening as babies are life long commitment .

 

Why do you believe he is actually going to leave ?Or that he is telling you the truth? May be you fulfil a need his wife is not currently fulfilling and he wants you around so is feeding you with what he thinks you might want to hear to stay .

 

How will things change in future? He has a baby

What's the timeframe 1 year 2 year ? The baby will still be very young

Not to forget he loves his wife why would he break his family

HE will always have something that comes up that will sound very reasonable to you because you want to believe .

 

Many ow here waited and is still currently waiting years and years .

 

If he is planning on breaking his family .hurting his wife why the time frame .It will hurt now.it will hurt later .What's the point of a time frame to do it.today would be as good a day as any future date to break her heart .And leave his child without mum and dad living together past your time frame .

 

So ..i think this mm is cake eater .not going anywhere

 

But I also know from 100s of stories here you will wait. So wait it out the time frame and make a solid resolve if he does not leave his wife in this timeframe you will walk away and do .

 

 

Everything else you being step mum /feeling guilty etc for doing this to another woman is going way ahead .till he actually leaves it's a waste of time

[Sparkling Storm]

Your story is heartbreaking on so many levels. I'm sorry that you've found yourself here, in pain.

 

No-one here truly knows your situation and can say for sure whether he is ever going to leave. What do you believe? Do you have doubts that he will niggling away at you?

 

As the poster above says, the rest of it is all premature. The only issue you need to focus on is whether you believe he is going to do what he says and how long you are prepared to wait for it. There will be many people along to tell you to walk away and start your own story - with your own man and maybe, one day, your own child. That would be a truly happy ending for you even though you would have to first endure the pain of separation from MM for that to happen.

 

But, as is the case for so many of us, you are in deep and either can't or won't get out. So ask yourself what your limit is. Will you wait until his child graduates? Will you stick around if she decides her baby needs a sibling? Draw your own line and promise yourself that you'll stick to it.

[wmacbride]

It doesn't sound like you are comfortable with the way your relationship started, nor with the fallout it is/could cause for others.

 

A relationship that starts in such a bad place may well be doomed from the start. Add to that the fact that you may well never, ever be able to trust him.

 

The one thing I ave noticed is that for an ow/om and a former mm/mw to go on to have a successful relationship, both parties have to accept responsibility for their actions, learn why they did what they did and also how to keep it from happening in the future.

 

You already know a lot about this man. you know he is willing to cheat on his wife who is trying to get pregnant, while she is pregnant and after the baby is born. That is all on him. What does that tell you about him?

 

A cheater is not always doomed to be a cheater, but for them to change, it takes a lot of work and personal growth. Do you think he is capable of doing this?

[lostgirl87]

I think it’s hnfair of him to ask you to just forgive him and get over it. When my boyfriend was still married, he and his wife were trying to buy a house. I told him if he bought a house with her, that would be the end of he and I. My reasoning for that was a house, in my eyes, is a sign that he’s not going anywhere. It further commits them to each other once they have property together and I knew he’d end up telling me “well we have a house together..it’s not so easy to divorce” in the future. He knew I meant it and they never did get to buy that house. Whether that was his choice or their circumstances, I don’t know. But I 100% would’ve been done had he done it b/c again, that’s a sign that he had no plans to divorce.

 

Your case is even more extreme. They now have a child together! A child that was extremely expensive and planned to conceive. If he couldn’t leave before there was a child, how is he going to leave now? It’s been done and I’m not saying he’s lying to you or y’all have no chance, but it does make him a little harder to believe.

 

As an OW, sometimes it’s easier to accept our position when there are no children. I don’t know if I would’ve had an affair had my boyfriend been a father. That’s a big deal to some people! It’s an internal struggle more than just “dating” a married man without children. Now there are innocent babies involved and as a woman, most of us draw the line when there are children involved. It sounds like you’re atruggljng with this relationship b/c you’re at odds with yourself. I don’t blame you.

 

I think your MM is exepcting too much from you at this point. You can’t change his thinking though. You can only control yourself. If you’re not ok with this, then walk away. Know that him leaving May not happen now that there’s a child. Children are usually a big reason why men stay married even if they want to be elsewhere. Give yourself a timeline. If nothing has been done, you need to walk away. Not b/c I think so or b/c society says it’s wrong, but because you are not happy. You are not ok with what you’re allowing yourself to do. When you can’t even look at yourself in the mirror and you’re not happy with yourself, nothing is worth it.

[Steen719]

 

 

 

He tells me that I need to forgive him, that he did it for us and that I need to accept that and forgive it. He says that if I can't let go of that resentment, that it will never be able to work out for us.

 

 

Aside from every other thing that could and has gone wrong, the idea that he is trying to sell you on the idea that he had a baby with a wife whom he claims to love FOR THE TWO OF YOU, is ridiculous. Because he did not lie about loving his wife and not wanting to leave her, you are supposed to stay involved with him?

 

Wake up and go find another man to love who will live an ethical and honest life with you; someone who can give his all to you without sneaking around. Let me tell you that having kids complicates things so much and you will always have this ex-wife, whose life you helped to blow up, in your life.

 

Is this the kind of person you want to be? Really? Cleaning up the crumbs from an unsuspecting new mother? Think about this. If you had a daughter, would you ever want this for her?

[MandoGirl]

I’m a big believer in giving out forgiveness freely, but forgiveness for the right things. In this case, he needs to be forgiven for the whoppers he’s told you to get you to stick around.

 

Just think about it... He wants to give her a gift before he leaves her, so he did expensive, invasive IVF to of create a child she gets to care for alone and he has to support financially for its whole life? Gee, how thoughtful. Can’t see what he gets everybody for Christmas.

[Southern Sun]

If he thought it was hard to leave before there was a child, I'd like to see him try now.

 

He is living in some kind of make-believe, fantasy world and wants you to buy in...so you won't leave him.

 

Maybe he just doesn't get it. Maybe that's all it is. Maybe he really does think it will be easier somehow to leave later, now that the child is actually there. It will not be easier. He's delusional.

 

Here's the catch...if it's easier, you probably don't want him. If he really does think he did his wife a favor by giving her a child before he divorced her (as opposed to divorcing her before kids, if those were the two choices), then you have a man who doesn't think properly, and you don't want that.

 

In all reality, he was likely pulling the wool over his eyes as well as yours. He wasn't ready to divorce. He was still in his marriage. They were in the process of IVF. If he stopped the presses, that would have thrown red flags up to his wife and he would have had to to explain his reasoning. She might have suspected he wasn't 'all in' the marriage. She might have suspected an affair. He obviously didn't want that. He wasn't ready to divorce. He didn't want to, at least not then.

 

And who knows when he will want to, if ever. The presence of his child will not make it any easier, unless there is something wrong with him. People do divorce with children of course, but it is extremely difficult. And it's because it's the best or only thing to do in the circumstances.

 

I am sorry for your pain.

[elaine567]

I am sorry but it is just the same old, same old.

 

MM finds OW who he tells he will NOT leave his wife.

OW falls in love, she starts wanting "more".

MM feels in a bit of a quandary, he wants to keep both women on board and as he now has a baby as well, he can't really leave as he will be seen as a cad to everyone he knows, but he can't lose his OW either.

So he keeps telling the OW that they have a future, that he WILL leave his wife only not quite yet... He kicks the proverbial can down the road.

 

The OW being besotted decides to wait ...and wait ...and wait, he WILL leave, he has to...all her eggs are in his basket.. it is all so close, it is touchable and yet so far... she is much too much invested to just walk away... meanwhile he and his wife just get on with their life and marriage as usual...

[grassisorisntgreener]

The only person you should be forgiving is yourself. Cut ties and move on. It's going to suck for a really long time, but it won't be as bad as hanging on to the hope of this guy leaving. He went through with IVF while he was with you. He chose to have kids knowing you wanted a real relationship. That tells you all you need to know.

 

Do not buy the - he's such a great guy because he gave his wife this gift - the gift of honesty would have been better.

[Vivir]

Hi RedFox, I actually agree with your married man that you will have to able to forgive what he has done if you intend to remain involved, or have a future, with him, because these resentments will undoubtedly fester and negatively affect your relationship.

 

But with that said, he is not likely to leave. Especially when he figures the price tag. But it seems the price tag doesn't and never did matter, since he told you and was adamant beforehand that he wasn't leaving.

 

He never lied, but he did dripfeed parts of the truth and behaved wholly irresponsibly in dealing with you at all under these circumstances. He has effectively wasted your precious time, and you've allowed him to do it. I have not written this to cause you anguish, but to help you realize that his time of messing about in your life and vice versa is up. Your denial is slipping, and it is not likely to ever come back.

 

From what you have written, he has supplied you with a number of textbook contradictory statements; e.g., "I love my wife and can never leave her" and then speaking of and wishing for a life together with you. He was saying two things, and actively supporting one of them: not leaving his wife by digging in his heels and having a very planned baby.

 

You asked, "Do I even have a right to be upset by it? Considering that he never actually lied to me, and that really, I did know better, I just refused to acknowledge it."

 

People tell the "truth" and assume that they no longer have a responsibility. My favorite example is the married person who says, "I told you I wasn't leaving my wife/husband; anything you did with me after I told you that is on you." Sure, it is, but it is also on him/her. You are acknowledging now that he has allowed you to wait in the wings for him while he lives his life. By acknowledging, you admit to realizing your errors. Unfortunately, it's gonna hurt to come into this full realization.

 

But the good news is now you can take back the power you have given to him and take action to preserve yourself. Be selfish.

[heretoh3lp]

The question you need to answer before you go any further is if you are really, genuinely comfortable entering a relationship in this way? You seem to feel awfully guilty, and quite frankly, while reading, I think you know what is right and what you want.

 

Don't stay with this man. He could do this to you, too. He had a child, an innocent child with a woman he didn't love and didn't want to be with. He brought a baby into this world, knowing he didn't want to be with the mother.

 

You feel so guilty, you won't even be able to look at the baby? Do not stay with this man. I can tell you, he will not leave his wife. He hasn't yet. Why would he in the future?

 

Do you have a right to be upset? No. You got into a relationship with a man who told you he was not going to leave his wife. You should have left at that very moment. Do you have a right to be upset about him not leaving her now? No, you don't. Do you have a right to be upset because you feel betrayed and broken? Yes, you do.

 

You seem to be very emotionally bruised and exhausted from this situation. Move on, learn from it. Let him lead his own life and you can begin a new one.

[Southern Sun]

He told me that he had always known that he wanted us to be together, but he had to give his wife the child that she always dreamed of, he had to give her something before destroying her life. That in having this child, he did it for us, for us to be together.

I could never accept that. I knew what I wanted, and I felt that if he truly wanted for us to have a life together, he would have ended the relationship before it progressed to this. Or for us to walk away and perhaps one day in the future, we'd find our way back together, if it was meant to be. But still, I stay.

 

....

 

I never wanted to be a step mother, I never wanted for an ex wife (a woman who's life I have helped to destroy no less) to always be in our lives. How can I ever look at his child, and what would be his ex wife, and be able to live with myself at what I helped do to them?

 

I wanted for us to have a clean slate, to be able to start a new life together... but that is never going to be, and I feel that I cannot forgive him for the way he has gone about things, about the way he continues to go about things until he is ready for us.

 

 

 

He tells me that I need to forgive him, that he did it for us and that I need to accept that and forgive it. He says that if I can't let go of that resentment, that it will never be able to work out for us.

 

 

....

 

But is he right? Is this something that I should be able to forgive, for us to have a chance of a future together? (That is of course, if he does actually leave).

 

I don't want to beat you down, OP, but I want you to think about this a bit more.

 

It is pretty nuts that he is claiming he got his wife pregnant for YOU. For the two of you. So that you could have a life together.

 

Any human being in their right mind KNOWS that a man and a woman creating a child together TYPICALLY creates a bond. If there was already a bond, it strengthens the bond. Sure, there are children all over the world with one parent or even no birth parents that claim them and certainly a man can have sex with a woman, impregnate her, and never see her again. But in the event that an already-existing couple gets pregnant, it usually creates a somewhat permanent tie between the two people.

 

As a woman, I am quite certain that if my husband wanted to leave me, I would not want the "gift" of a baby on his way out the door. Even if he so benevolently planned to stick around for the first few years, I would much prefer he told me the truth and just headed on out. I can make a baby without him, thank you very much.

 

If my most important goal in life was to have a child, then I can find sperm donors. I can go to a sperm bank. I wouldn't need to attach myself to a man who had intentions of leaving me. That is the LAST thing I would want.

 

What your MM did was create a permanent tie with his wife. As you said, you didn't really want to be a step-mom...nor really desire to have an ex-wife in your life. Well, by having a child in the picture, that is exactly what will happen...if he ever leaves. Had he left before doing this, it would have been far different.

 

His reasoning makes NO sense whatsoever. It was no gift to you or your relationship. It was no gift to her. If he actually truly had a motive that included getting out of his marriage, it had to have been totally narcissistic. To think that his wife should actually look at this positively or that it was a good thing for you. Ha!! Maybe HE wanted the child for some reason. Who knows.

 

The gall that he has to say "if you can't let it go" then you're over. Oh, okay. I would advise you NOT to let it go.

[snflwrgrl]

Throughout your post and the telling of your story I see a wonderful person who knows right from wrong and I commend you for that!! <3 I once too fell hard, innocently at first and unknowingly, into what turned into an emotional affair. I had never even heard of that term before. It is a slippery slope!! and my heart goes out to you. Have you considered speaking to a local pastor or a counselor? I spoke to my pastor and a Christian counselor and I was slowly, painstakingly able to remove myself from the situation. You can too. You deserve better!! You are worthy of so much more. It’s very difficult once you are emotionally attached and you think you are in love but you are not a bad person and you are not alone. I will be praying for you, for you to stand firm to what you know is right and not to settle for a foundation you are already uncomfortable with. Thank you for sharing your story!! I could feel your pain as I was reading it. :’( My hope is that your story can save someone else the same heartache. God Bless You!!

[whichwayisup]

End it and grieve the loss. Seek counseling to help you heal in a healthy way. You led yourself on, this MM was up front with you and you chose to ignore the red flags and bury your head in the sand. You also shouldn't be around their baby (being step mom) because you are in denial about everything. Respectfully the best thing is to work on yourself because you let this man rope you in. Forgive yourself...

[anika99]

Okay I think what he says about having the baby with his wife for you and your relationship with him is a bunch of bull. He never said that before you broke up with him, he only recently came up with that malarky.

 

But if we give him the benefit of the doubt and pretend his story is true then his plan to give his wife a baby before ditching her is really really sick. Cruel to her and the child. Should she not have been given some sort of say in whether she wanted to be a single parent or not? Sure she would have been hurt had he left her before but to leave her after she has had his baby will multiply her hurt tenfold. I know this because my sons dad and I broke up when kids were little. I wasn't just hurt by the breakup for myself, my heart hurt for my kids. I felt guilty for not choosing a better partner for a father and making my kids part of a single parent household. My heart broke whenever they needed their dad and he wasn't there. Oh I know people like to believe that a spouse can leave the family home and still be a present and hands on parent and I think that's possible but the parent who leaves really has to go to great lengths to make that happen. Weekend and holiday visits doesn't cut it. So your saying that your MM unanimously made the decision to make his wife a single parent, his mistress a stepparent and his child the product of a broken home all for the good of his future relationship with you. If that's true that is extremely disturbing, selfish and narcissistic of him

[sandylee1]

You need to question whether and why you'd want a relationship with a man who thinks in such a warped way.

 

Let's go with his theory.... assume it's true in his mind ... then imagine how insecure you'll feel when pregnant ... it'll be your parting gift.

 

Yippee!!

[wmacbride]

op,

the one I feel the worst for in this while sick scenario is the baby. Just imagine knowing that the only reason you exist is so your father could give a "gift" to the woman he was cheating on his or her mother with.

 

That is ridiculous.

 

If this guy is capable of coming up with a situation as foolish and selfish as all of this, what will he do to you?

 

Get out now before you lose even more of yourself.

[pheonixrisen]

op,

the one I feel the worst for in this while sick scenario is the baby. Just imagine knowing that the only reason you exist is so your father could give a "gift" to the woman he was cheating on his or her mother with.

 

That is ridiculous.

 

If this guy is capable of coming up with a situation as foolish and selfish as all of this, what will he do to you?

 

Get out now before you lose even more of yourself.

 

I don't believe the above act is actually true .

Cheaters usually say things that's crazy and only sounds reasonable to ow

 

HE gave his wife a gift " baby " for the ow

 

In which universe does this actually makes any kind of sense.

 

If the ow is that special..the love of his life ...someone he cannot live without ...he would have walked away from this marriage before all this appointments for ivf .

 

It's clear the ow sees the red flag and as several times before will bury her head In the sand .

[RedFox]

I would like to thank you all for your responses.

Yes, some are difficult to hear, but you all have spoken nothing but the blunt truth. So I appreciate all of your words. Even the harsh ones.

Thank you for helping me take my head out of the sand and facing the truth of my situation.

[BaileyB]

He was always honest with you. He told you that he was not going to leave his wife, he took steps during your relationships to start a family with this woman... you chose not to listen and you created a fantasy...

 

I would definitely move on. This is the worst kind of man - the kind of man who would lie and cheat while professing to "love" his wife, investing in infertility treatments, conceiving and bringing a child into the world. How could you ever trust a man like this?

 

I hate to say it, but this really is the same old, same old... If he really loved his OW, he would have left the marriage and wanted to have a child with the "love of his life." The thought that he would create a child to give as a parting "gift" to his wife is not only disrespectful to his wife, but also to the OW. It's terrible.

Edited October 17, 2017 by BaileyB

[jah526]

I don't believe the above act is actually true .

Cheaters usually say things that's crazy and only sounds reasonable to ow

 

HE gave his wife a gift " baby " for the ow

 

In which universe does this actually makes any kind of sense.

 

Totally agree with this. Being in love with the wrong person (which any married person is) makes us vulnerable and easily manipulable. Don't think they don't know this? When I complained to MM about him always talking up other "hot" women, he told me he did this to keep himself from falling for me. What a load of horse****! And I bought it!

 

As my counselor told me the other today, it may be hard to believe, but there are actually people out there who LIE. Who would've thought?

[jah526]

One other thing OP. My MM would always get extremely upset about being "judged". He thought being judgmental was just about the worst sin a person could commit (wonder why?). I think yours is playing the same warped game with his forgive and forget BS. It's a way of gaslighting and shifting the blame to you.

[Poppy47]

One other thing OP. My MM would always get extremely upset about being "judged". He thought being judgmental was just about the worst sin a person could commit (wonder why?). I think yours is playing the same warped game with his forgive and forget BS. It's a way of gaslighting and shifting the blame to you.

 

Jah

I agree,

 

any type of questioning or comment on xMM's double standards would cause him to go into some kind of frenzy.

He would make all kinds of claims about doing it for "us".

 

What a wanker.

 

Poppy