What next?

[83cj]

I am doing really well in my own path - separated from my H, have stabilized my own situation pretty well, and am working toward divorce. MM is working on his stuff, but I'm thinking it makes sense to set some kind of end point for myself so that I know there is a point at which it will be resolved somehow. Either by then he has done what he needs to do to be able to be in a legitimate relationship with me and we are still together, or he hasn't and I break it off (but willing to talk if he does work out his situation). I don't want to do that immediately because we're both working on our stuff and I think it would be reasonable to give him some more time.

 

Does this make sense? If I do it, is it better to tell him, or just have a mental end point and let him know when we get there? I think it would be better to let him know, but then does that feel like an ultimatum? I'd stick to it - I just don't like ultimatums. They feel like threats and that's a poor basis for a relationship. OTOH, it feels unfair to know in my head that there is this make it or break it time frame that I have unilaterally decided on that he is unaware of.

 

His choices are his and mine are mine. I'd like to have that happy ending, but I need to walk a healthy path for me first and foremost (or I wouldn't be much good in a relationship anyway). We both have to do this because we want to and it is the right thing for each of us, or not at all.

 

So, set an end point? How far out is reasonable? We've been together less than a year and I was thinking at most another six months or so.

[whichwayisup]

Does his wife have any idea that he is going to leave and file for divorce?

[83cj]

Does his wife have any idea that he is going to leave and file for divorce?

 

Yes, she knows that is how he feels about it. She wants to keep working on it.

[DKT3]

Having an affair is NEVER a good way out of a relationship, and at some point you will likely regret it. Even if you don't regret leaving the marriage.

 

As far as leaving, if its done for the right reasons ie no longer in love or wanting to be married you will be fine no matter what happens with the MM. If you left in hopes that it would force MM hand or to clear a path to be with MM then you are in for some painful years ahead.

 

Odds are MM isn't going to leave his marriage, and you should plan and move forward with that in mind.

 

I think the best thing you can do is focus on yourself and go NC or LC with MM. If he is going to leave then he will. Not allowing him to have both isn't going to push him to a decision. If he can have both, he will for as long as you and his wife will allow it.

 

Protect yourself and don't allow his status dictate your life.

[83cj]

Having an affair is NEVER a good way out of a relationship, and at some point you will likely regret it. Even if you don't regret leaving the marriage.

 

I agree. But I'll leave potential future regrets to the future and deal with them if/when they arise. It doesn't change where I'm at now.

 

As far as leaving, if its done for the right reasons ie no longer in love or wanting to be married you will be fine no matter what happens with the MM. If you left in hopes that it would force MM hand or to clear a path to be with MM then you are in for some painful years ahead.

 

Yes, I will absolutely be fine. I'm not worried about that. I'm doing much better than I was in a bad M and this was clearly the right thing for me to do, if done in some ways the wrong way. That part I will simply have to live with. As for MM, he can leave or not; he has to find his way. I love him and I want that, but I'll be good without it, too.

 

Odds are MM isn't going to leave his marriage, and you should plan and move forward with that in mind.

 

Right, as I am and have been all along.

 

I think the best thing you can do is focus on yourself and go NC or LC with MM. If he is going to leave then he will. Not allowing him to have both isn't going to push him to a decision. If he can have both, he will for as long as you and his wife will allow it.

 

I'm not interested in going NC right now. I am focused on myself in a healthy way and I'm doing well. I don't think you're correct about him, in terms of having both for as long as he can, but setting that end point would guarantee that I would not get stuck in a situation like that indefinitely.

 

Protect yourself and don't allow his status dictate your life.

 

That is what this is all about. I'm not willing to go NC now, but I want to set an end point for my own good. I'll stick to it; I won't cave. That's how I am. I'm just trying to think through how long that should be and whether I should let him know about it. He's great and I think we'd be very happy together, but people can be weak. If he's weak and indecisive, drags it out and doesn't leave, then I wouldn't want to be with him anyway.

[whichwayisup]

Think about putting your affair/R on hold. Meaning, no intimacy, no dating and no sex while he is the process of ending his marriage.. If you are there for him and continue on the A, all that does is enable him to do ... Nothing! Things will remain the same, he won't end his marriage or end the A.

[Quiet Storm]

You have to think of the date as a boundary for yourself, and not as a way to pressure him. Yeah, he might see it as a threat or an ultimatum, but make it clear to him that this date is not to push him or rush him. It is a boundary that you set for yourself, because you can't be in an affair indefinitely. You have goals to meet and plans to make, and this needs to be resolved by <date> or you are moving on.

 

Actions speak louder than words, on both sides of the equation. Telling him you want a real relationship, while continuing to accept an affair often causes MM to think "She's not serious" or "She won't be able to let go, she's just bluffing" when OW do set dates. OWs often compromise & sacrifice so much that MM assume she'll be there loving him & waiting forever. For some MM, this accommodating behavior by OW actually causes him to value her less. You have held up your end of the bargain. Now you are accommodating him, which you are willing to do now but not forever.

 

If you say "I'm moving on if we aren't together by Christmas" but never say another word about it from now until December, he might assume it was just an idle threat. So set the date, and give him monthly reminders like "I want to make sure that you still want this to happen for us, because I will not be participating in an affair in 2015."

 

You have to frame it in a way that says "I am doing this for me, not to pressure or punish you. If you can't be with me in the way I need, that's OK, but I just can't do an affair anymore".

 

How you say it can make a huge difference. Saying "If you don't leave by December, we're over. I've waited so long for you, I sacrificed so much for you, I left my marriage, so please leave for me. I love you so much, please keep your promises to me." sounds like you are persuading him to make a decision and that he owes it to you. That will make him feel controlled & forced.

 

Saying it like "I really want to be in a legitimate relationship. I am moving on from my marriage now and I have a lot to offer. I won't waste another year like this." sends the message that you value yourself, you value your future and you won't accept less than you deserve. You aren't forcing him or seeking to control him, but you know your worth and are your own advocate.

[83cj]

Think about putting your affair/R on hold. Meaning, no intimacy, no dating and no sex while he is the process of ending his marriage.. If you are there for him and continue on the A, all that does is enable him to do ... Nothing! Things will remain the same, he won't end his marriage or end the A.

 

I'm not going to do this right now, but I will if things don't change by the end point that I choose. Now is not the time and he's not doing nothing. I don't feel played - he's not that kind of person. But he may end up being weak; that's what I want to create a boundary around. I'm unconvinced he won't end his marriage - I think it will end regardless of me, just like mine ended (is ending, technically) regardless of him. It may, however, take more time than I'm willing to wait. And certainly may take more time than I'm willing to be the OW. I want to set a point at which I move on. Like I said, I'll stick to it. I haven't heard any feedback on the six month time period. That feels about right to me. Plenty of time to make serious relationship changes and yet not so much time that I will end up feeling used or bad.

 

Also, if I feel too much like I'm being strung along or just hanging and waiting, I'll cut it off sooner. Again, just how I am. There is great future potential here, but I will not twist in the wind for someone who can't *$&% or get off the pot (kwim)?

[83cj]

You have to think of the date as a boundary for yourself, and not as a way to pressure him. Yeah, he might see it as a threat or an ultimatum, but make it clear to him that this date is not to push him or rush him. It is a boundary that you set for yourself, because you can't be in an affair indefinitely. You have goals to meet and plans to make, and this needs to be resolved by <date> or you are moving on.

 

Yes, that is exactly what it is - a boundary for ME. That is the primary function. I'm debating whether I should tell him I've decided on an end point because it feels unfair to not let him know where my boundary is and he has asked me before to tell him that kind of thing. I like the way you phrased it and I think that makes sense. Thank you.

 

Actions speak louder than words, on both sides of the equation. Telling him you want a real relationship, while continuing to accept an affair often causes MM to think "She's not serious" or "She won't be able to let go, she's just bluffing" when OW do set dates. OWs often compromise & sacrifice so much that MM assume she'll be there loving him & waiting forever. For some MM, this accommodating behavior by OW actually causes him to value her less. You have held up your end of the bargain. Now you are accommodating him, which you are willing to do now but not forever.

 

Right. That makes very good sense. I have previously communicated some of that to him and will do it again. It's weird to go from MOW to OW. Huge difference there. I know that he wants a real, long-term relationship with me. He has made that very clear and not in the "future faking" way that I've seen around the boards. I don't think it's bull, but it could be that he does not have the fortitude to do the hard thing (which would be good for him - his marriage is a disaster of incompatibility or we wouldn't be where we are). I think he knows I'm serious when I say I have limits. He's asked me to tell him if I feel something like that is at hand, but again it's this tension because I want to give him all the space he needs to make decisions about his life independent of me, yet he has requested information that could influence those decisions and I think he is entitled to it, but also do not want to pressure him. It's a strange knot.

 

If you say "I'm moving on if we aren't together by Christmas" but never say another word about it from now until December, he might assume it was just an idle threat. So set the date, and give him monthly reminders like "I want to make sure that you still want this to happen for us, because I will not be participating in an affair in 2015."

 

I could do that and I agree that reminders make sense so it is clear that it is not just a one-off complaint.

 

You have to frame it in a way that says "I am doing this for me, not to pressure or punish you. If you can't be with me in the way I need, that's OK, but I just can't do an affair anymore".

 

Thank you. That is exactly what I need and those words are helpful.

 

How you say it can make a huge difference. Saying "If you don't leave by December, we're over. I've waited so long for you, I sacrificed so much for you, I left my marriage, so please leave for me. I love you so much, please keep your promises to me." sounds like you are persuading him to make a decision and that he owes it to you. That will make him feel controlled & forced.

 

Right, exactly! That is not the way I feel and not the way I want to express it.

 

Saying it like "I really want to be in a legitimate relationship. I am moving on from my marriage now and I have a lot to offer. I won't waste another year like this." sends the message that you value yourself, you value your future and you won't accept less than you deserve. You aren't forcing him or seeking to control him, but you know your worth and are your own advocate.

 

Yes. That's how I feel and what I want. Exactly. If things don't work out with MM because he does not leave or is too slow to leave, I'm ready to move on with my life. I want him to know that without it sounding like a demand. Your words have been really helpful. Thank you!

[HBIC]

It's weird to go from MOW to OW. Huge difference there. I know that he wants a real, long-term relationship with me. He has made that very clear and not in the "future faking" way that I've seen around the boards. I don't think it's bull, but it could be that he does not have the fortitude to do the hard thing (which would be good for him - his marriage is a disaster of incompatibility or we wouldn't be where we are). I think he knows I'm serious when I say I have limits. He's asked me to tell him if I feel something like that is at hand, but again it's this tension because I want to give him all the space he needs to make decisions about his life independent of me, yet he has requested information that could influence those decisions and I think he is entitled to it, but also do not want to pressure him. It's a strange knot.

 

Your results will vary, of course, but here's what happened in my situation. I told MM that I understood that leaving his W and starting a new life with me was not the kind of decision to make without very careful deliberation. I then expressed a point in time beyond which I would not be able to continue in the A because of my needs. My MM countered that it amounted to an ultimatum and, more importantly, that his feeling pressured pushed him away from me, that he needed to feel "secure" in my commitment to him to move forward with me.

 

(sorry, I just threw up a little in my mouth)

 

It was all just one giant game to keep the cake-eating a rollin'. As to future faking: I believe that my MM, as all good compartmentalizers can, actually believed his own words when he said he wanted to marry me and make a life with me. Simultaneously, the "family man" in him wanted to grow old and die with his W and believed he would. It's breathtakingly amazing what people can delude themselves into believing.

 

To make a long story longer, I told MM if he didn't like my timeline because it felt like a pressure-laden ultimatum to him, that I'd simply walk whenever I felt the relationship wasn't working for me, which as it turned out, happened ahead of the deadline I had initially offered. Guess he should have taken the ultimatum

 

I can tell by your posts that you are a smart cookie. Please do not underestimate that even though your MM and his W in your view are a "disaster of incompatibility" (which may very well be 100% true), the bond of marriage can be an extraordinarily strong one and people stay in s*&^storm marriages all the time.

 

Will your MM have the fortitude to leave? There's no way for you to really know that until you set a firm boundary, stick to it, and events unfold. THE most important thing, which you have already identified, is that your boundary is for YOU. You need to be ready to walk if he ends up choosing to continue his marital bond.

 

As a side note to all this, it is very difficult, perhaps impossible, for your MM to clearly evaluate his M while he is involved with you. I know you don't want to go NC, and I won't push it on you, but you "being there" for him ironically helps keep him in his M, "disaster of incompatibility" or no.

 

I was 100% ready to walk and I did. My xMM's marriage is currently in the toilet (but not flushed) and I am off being free and fabulous. As I said, your results WILL vary, but stay strong, girl, and be ready, REALLY ready for anything. (hugs)

Edited July 4, 2014 by HBIC

[83cj]

Thanks for all of your thoughts HBIC, I appreciate it a lot.

 

I did some thinking and ended it with MM for now. I made it clear how I feel (love him, want to be together, etc., but the situation is too uncomfortable and uncertain/feels like it could stretch on indefinitely) and that if he sorts his stuff out, he can look me up. But that I'm not going to sit and wait - I'll be healing and moving on, just still open to the possibility of it working out in the future if we both want it and we're both available. Asked him for NC. He was sad but understood and said he would respect what I asked for and not contact me at all until it was over. Also said if I changed my mind I could contact him. And it was a matter of time only and if he thought the way he was doing things was taking too long or not working, he would make changes faster.

 

I think he'll stick to it and not contact me. I don't think he'll change his mind about getting divorced, but as you said HBIC, it can be hard to make that decision clearly when you have other things going on. Like all the conversations, it was good even if a hard topic and he showed all the good things - compassion, understanding, strength, love. Totally willing to set me free and respect my boundaries.

 

I feel sad, relieved, optimistic. Good enough! I do hope to hear from him again within a year but know I can't count on it so if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. I won't be sitting around feeling bad. What we've had was great so at least I have all the good memories to hold onto. I've had a couple other relationships like that (though those were very short compared to this one) and it's nice when you can look back on it and just think about how great it was and how the person treated you well and you had something special. A warm story and good memories to take with you wherever you go.

[beach]

You say you are separated and ending your M.

 

Have you filed for divorce yet?

[HBIC]

Thanks for all of your thoughts HBIC, I appreciate it a lot.

 

I did some thinking and ended it with MM for now. I made it clear how I feel (love him, want to be together, etc., but the situation is too uncomfortable and uncertain/feels like it could stretch on indefinitely) and that if he sorts his stuff out, he can look me up. But that I'm not going to sit and wait - I'll be healing and moving on, just still open to the possibility of it working out in the future if we both want it and we're both available. Asked him for NC. He was sad but understood and said he would respect what I asked for and not contact me at all until it was over. Also said if I changed my mind I could contact him. And it was a matter of time only and if he thought the way he was doing things was taking too long or not working, he would make changes faster.

 

I think he'll stick to it and not contact me. I don't think he'll change his mind about getting divorced, but as you said HBIC, it can be hard to make that decision clearly when you have other things going on. Like all the conversations, it was good even if a hard topic and he showed all the good things - compassion, understanding, strength, love. Totally willing to set me free and respect my boundaries.

 

I feel sad, relieved, optimistic. Good enough! I do hope to hear from him again within a year but know I can't count on it so if it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. I won't be sitting around feeling bad. What we've had was great so at least I have all the good memories to hold onto. I've had a couple other relationships like that (though those were very short compared to this one) and it's nice when you can look back on it and just think about how great it was and how the person treated you well and you had something special. A warm story and good memories to take with you wherever you go.

 

I'm so glad my words were helpful to you, 83cj. Here's the actions I recommend to really heal and be in the best emotional place possible:

 

1. Focus on one step at a time. The A didn't work for you. Now you're out. Yay!

2. For now, let MM go. Truly. If he wants to stay married, great. If he leaves AND works on himself to understand why being deceptive to the one he made a commitment to love, honor, and protect was wrong, also great. You need someone YOU can trust, so if MM ever changes his status, he still needs to do work on himself.

3. Stop thinking about MM and the A and think about what YOU want to do with your life right now. All of that time and energy you spent on the A can now be spent on something that enhances and enriches your life.

4. Come here for support. Read the OW/OM threads and start to see the behavior patterns and common delusions that emerge. Then head on over to the Infidelity section for a reality check from the BS community that has to deal with the effects of an A in their day-to-day living, not just a part-time relationship.

5. Develop your sense of integrity, strength, and empathy. MM will probably break NC to poke at you a bit (mine did). Set firm boundaries and stick to them. You can do it.

 

You've taken a massive and extremely difficult step in ending your A and choosing NC and you deserve to feel proud for standing up for YOUR needs.

Edited July 8, 2014 by HBIC
tired and couldn't keep order of posts straight! :)

[83cj]

You say you are separated and ending your M.

 

Have you filed for divorce yet?

 

No. I told him I wanted a divorce immediately after I left. I had to leave due to his alcoholism and abuse. Working out the details first, then will file uncontested and keep the court stuff minimal.