Possible to Start Legitimate Relationship? How now? [update: he's staying M]

[soitgoes0617]

Both married, had affair at work for two years (first time for us each). I couldnt take the double life and finally confronted the issues in my marriage of 10 mostly unhappy years without confessing. Even though we have two young kids, we decided to divorce. There was no love left, no solid foundation to return to or build upon. I didnt ask mm to choose but encouraged him to set things right in his own marriage. We both realized affairs werent the answer.

 

While we are thankful to have known each other and shared previously unexplored depths of emotional intimacy, after all the emotional turmoil neither of us would do it again. But his wife just shuts down and wont acknowledge issues. He said hes going to stay (2 kids, 12 & 18). Besides the kids, I asked if he still loves her. He does. Thats what hurt, that even though I was married, emotionally I went all in. I loved only him, but he loved both of us. I know it wasnt right to expect the same in return given the circumstances and thats a risk even with single men.

 

The weekend after ending it, he found out his wife had cheated on him (years before anything happened between us and then again recently). I'm not sure where this puts me or what I should do. He's dropped hints that hes going to leave. Do I give him space to sort this out himself or should I be there to support him? Right now I'm taking the wait and see approach but if he does, is it possible to have a clean slate to explore a legitimate relationship or will I just be putting myself in a rebound position to a man who though divorced still isnt emotionally available?

 

It would hurt to pretend to be just a friend. It would also suck to feel like runner up since we already have a history, how could I get over the fact that he loved her enough to stay in an unhappy marriage until he found out but wouldnt leave for me (even though I didnt ask because it wasnt right, doesnt mean its not what I wanted). I'm not over him, dating other men would be my rebound from him. So much in a short time, just not sure what the way forward is.

 

Advice/perspectives appreciated.

Edited June 4, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[Got it]

My advice, you have laid down the gauntlet with your feelings and expectations. I would advise telling him that since this is more than sufficient reason to leave a marriage, this is his road to walk. You decided (as it seems you have) that you want more and the affair isn't cutting it. You will start walking, if he catches up fantastic but you will sit pining for him and the window will close.

Edited June 4, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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[rosedl]

You do not want to be anywhere in the middle of the divorce.

 

He needs to do his work alone.

 

If after he seeks out a divorce, you wish to reconcile, you can decide at that time. Until then, he isn't even a separated man yet.

[JL123]

I feel your pain. I am in a similar situation and posted seeking advice also. Much of the response was the same - end it and he will come find you on his own if that is what he truly wants. It is easier to say than do. However, reading your situation sheds much light on my own. While they are different men, different relationships, there was one point in my A (when MM went back to his W after Dday #2) where he said "with 2 kids and years of history together, there is enough there to rebuild and try again." In essence, he loved her and the foundation enough to choose that over me. Now he is back asking me to choose for him because things are rocky at home and not going so smoothly.

It is becoming very clear that I need to shut the door forever and move on.

Sorry, my thoughts are rambling here.

My point: I think you are getting some good advice but until you reach the realization yourself like I did in the last couple of days, you are likely to stay stuck in limbo. Think it over and be true to yourself.

[DKT3]

First on your side. If you left you marriage because it was over then there is no reason your next relationship won't work, being with OM or whoever. If you left because you wanted to be with OM then the odds are stacked against it working. This is something that you won't clearly understand for a while, you may think you know now.

 

On his side, you can force him out of his marriage. Setting deadline and all that stuff. If he hasn't left there is a reason why. Don't assume he doesn't also still want to be with his wife.

 

Your out of your marriage, I agree with not telling about the cheating if your leaving anyways. Although he will most likely out two and two together. Now is the time to focus on your kids making sure they are ok with their new reality. If it happens with OM let him come to you DIVORCED or not at all.

[gettingstronger]

I would be concerned that the main reason he is leaving is because she cheated- he considers cheating a deal breaker yet he is willing to cheat- seems like a double standard he has for women- so, would he consider you a cheater even if its him you cheated with- will he hold it over you, not trust you, etc.... we have friends that are married after being in an affair together and I have to say its the most un-trusting relationship I have ever seen-

JMO

[atreides]

OP, are you sure he is not emotionally available? It seems to me he is staying in the marriage for more pragmatic reasons, why would his emotions change at this point? You chose to D but just because he is staying does not mean his emotions or feelings for you would disappear. Do you actually believe that he did not love his wife during the A? I think whatever "love" or let me just say feelings he has now is likely the same he felt while with you.

 

 

I usually argue to WS about the "chemicals" vs "real love" but your question is in regards to how he feels, not likely any difference but certainty in regards to his wife's infidelity, that likely adds more favor to you perhaps.

 

I think what you are doing is fine with the wait and see but offer the support too, see how he responds.

 

I wont sugarcoat, all relationships i have known or through word of mouth from my circles that are built out of affairs have failed. That does not mean that they did not have some great years together, the longest being 6 years. Moreover, the dynamics and actually how you two feel will be very different from the affair as all that i know have said that. An affair is a vacation, it is absent of the mundane in life that test us in a relationship so be prepared for that but I see no reason to not try a legitimate relationship.

 

That said, if he does not leave his wife, then NO... don't allow yourself to be strung along and lose more years in hopes of something. In that case, give yourself time to get over him and find some one new.

 

best of luck.

[ConfusedMarriedOW]

As hard as this is, you need to take this time for YOU. If he leaves his wife, has time to heal and then you both finally start to see eachother and the feelings are there for both of you enough to finally be a legitimate couple, then great. But time and healing needs to happen. Then perhaps take it slow, like friends before you jump right back in.

[soitgoes0617]

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts. Yes, my marriage was already over. I am optimistic about a future without my ex, with or without the MM. I would love to have him in my life for who he is, I would also like to have a full loving relationship at some point, where intimacy can truly grow in the day to day. Time will tell if the two exist in the same person. The A was a catalyst for introspection and determining life direction with the unique issues that come up. Several of you are right, I do not want to be in the middle, for my own heart's protection. I want to give him my love, but not to my own detriment. Have to be over him before being truly just a friend. I struggle with trying to have a more enlightened view of love and not be envious that he might have something worth saving in his marriage where I never did, or thinking he'd rather have the worst of her than the best of me. I know it more complicated than that, and his choice is a reflection of him not me, just how it feels sometimes. GettingStronger- he realizes two wrongs dont make a right, and doesnt have a doublestandard. I think he's been on the fence and largely, but not entirely, stayed out of a sense of duty and keeping the image of the nuclear family and not wanting to be a "bad guy" to break it up, even though I think he was justified before, this just might make it easier for him to justify it to outsiders. I would rather be his day to day partner and risk having to forgive him for an affair (PA, EA would be different) than be in a love triangle with him and his wife. The idea of him loving his wife bothers me more than him sleeping with her.

Atreides- I appreciate your own brand of pragmatism. I was married, but my heart was 100% available (for reasons I wont go into here, discussing A not M, but I've owned my part). I have no doubt that MM loves me, and that his feelings for me havent changed, but he still loves/d his wife. Of course he mustve the whole time, but it was a while until I reached the emotional point of caring too much to not bring it up. He could have lied to keep me involved but didnt. His words "Shes the mother of my children". Me: "you know what kind of love i mean" Him: "yes, why else would i still be there. Shes still interesting to me" (whatever that means) Me: "kids, money, etc" So clearly its not all pragmatic reasons and I deserve more than second place from whomever I'm with. How else can we know we're not if it cant be proven in the mundane of reality as you say.It was his love that gave me the courage to believe in myself, I deserved more than my sham of a marriage (as did H), and unfortunately, more than being OW even with him. If we start anew, and it would be slow going, I know the dynamics would change and I see the potential for that transition but not if he's not ready. I dont think her cheating can just wipe whatever bit of love remained for her or can it? He needs to figure that out. Guess I just did my own figuring a little sooner. I have compassion for him, its not easy. I liked GotIt's phrase of letting him catch up. (If that's what happens). Ironically, I was the one who initially put up the boundaries of not getting serious and he pushed for more. Maybe he thought M and A could coexist forever. It might be the answer for some, not me. I know we were meant to meet, even if we dont end up together. Who knows how these things are supposed to go. I appreciate all the input. Sometimes these forums are better than a therapist.

[atreides]

Atreides- I appreciate your own brand of pragmatism. I was married, but my heart was 100% available (for reasons I wont go into here, discussing A not M, but I've owned my part). I have no doubt that MM loves me, and that his feelings for me havent changed, but he still loves/d his wife. Of course he mustve the whole time, but it was a while until I reached the emotional point of caring too much to not bring it up. He could have lied to keep me involved but didnt. His words "Shes the mother of my children". Me: "you know what kind of love i mean" Him: "yes, why else would i still be there. Shes still interesting to me" (whatever that means) Me: "kids, money, etc" So clearly its not all pragmatic reasons and I deserve more than second place from whomever I'm with. How else can we know we're not if it cant be proven in the mundane of reality as you say.It was his love that gave me the courage to believe in myself, I deserved more than my sham of a marriage (as did H), and unfortunately, more than being OW even with him. If we start anew, and it would be slow going, I know the dynamics would change and I see the potential for that transition but not if he's not ready. I dont think her cheating can just wipe whatever bit of love remained for her or can it? He needs to figure that out. Guess I just did my own figuring a little sooner. I have compassion for him, its not easy. I liked GotIt's phrase of letting him catch up. (If that's what happens). Ironically, I was the one who initially put up the boundaries of not getting serious and he pushed for more. Maybe he thought M and A could coexist forever. It might be the answer for some, not me. I know we were meant to meet, even if we dont end up together. Who knows how these things are supposed to go. I appreciate all the input. Sometimes these forums are better than a therapist.

 

 

I love your response, you answered most of your own questions and from where i am standing have the confidence needed to make the right decisions.

 

To answer your question above, read some stories here on LS, infidelity is deal breaker for many men. It is true you are going to take a huge risk and as some state "work on you"; but, if you decide to go with him, you will test the "love" he has for you or perhaps... it's possible build "love" that was not there before. The issue really is whether to wait or not which wastes your time in the end, everything has an opportunity cost.

 

best of luck.

[soitgoes0617]

MM insight on this would be appreciated. Backstory is my other thread. Basically we were both married, no D day. My M ended. Wanted to live authentically. Not going to be a mistress. OM keeps getting shut down trying address things in his M. Had D day of his wife's own affair from before we started but she wont talk about it, issues in M, no emotional or physical intimacy, anything. Yet..... he's decided to stay. WTF.

 

Regardless of having an OW or not, why would anyone choose that? Especially when you know what love can be. Truly for the kids? I disagree how thats healthy to see a mom and dad who dont speak to each other. To have someone who will still cook and clean for you who makes six figures? Shallow. Fear of starting over? Cowardly.

 

As somone who cares for him I think he's going to spend the rest of his life hoping things will change and they just won't. He's going to be stuck like I was. This was a crossroads in life, and I feel like I saw the importance of choosing to live life truthfully and acted and he isnt. I'm mad at him for that. And I feel sorry for him. And for his W. And for their kids. My family's had their own pain but its better on the other side.

 

I can get over him not choosing me. The reason we arent together is because we are of different character, and these traits are not that of a person I would want to continue giving my heart to. He has other qualities I still enjoy in a friend though and is a great professional sounding board. After going NC/LC for a bit to clear my head, we are in touch. Less frequent, less intense, no talk of 'us', his M. Except I keep having to put the boundaries up to keep it casual. He chose his M, but isnt comitting to it.

 

I'm disappointed to think he's just a cakeeater and is trying to feel out an EA, hoping the door will be open for PA rekindling or that I'm still a fantasy escape for him in some way. That's not friendship. Why am I forcing him to do the right thing? Should I give him time to get over me? Do I just cut the attempts at friendship and leave him to his life of chosen dysfunctional misery? Am I being selfish in any of this?

Edited July 16, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Paragraphs and merge with context

[Snowflower]

MM insight on this would be appreciated. Backstory is my other thread. Basically we were both married, no D day. My M ended. Wanted to live authentically. Not going to be a mistress. OM keeps getting shut down trying address things in his M. Had D day of his wife's own affair from before we started but she wont talk about it, issues in M, no emotional or physical intimacy, anything. Yet..... he's decided to stay. WTF.

 

 

 

Gently, how are you sure that what he is saying about his wife is true? Have you heard from her directly that she had an affair too? Or have you been able to confirm for yourself that she has been shutting down all his attempts to talk about it and denies physical intimacy? Honestly, I don't know how you would find that out on your own?

 

Or, are you taking your MM word for what is happening in his marriage?

 

I hope he is not lying to you. On the other hand, I have read here on LS about some of the horrific and disgusting lies that MM have told in order to keep their OW on the string.

 

Also, have you asked HIM why he stays in such an unpleasant situation? The best anyone can do he is offer conjecture as to why he stays in his marriage. I would talk to him about it.

[whichwayisup]

Whatever his reasons are to stay married are valid to him.

 

If he was that miserable in his marriage (which I doubt) he would leave and divorce.

 

Go on with your life and go NC.

[DKT3]

Yeah, I guessing most of what he is selling you about his marriage is false. In fact its kinda two different stories that your saying he told you. On one hand he still loves her, then he doesn't.

 

He is using the "poor is me" to keep you hooked.

 

Lastly, your not living authentically because you husband doesn't know the true reason you want to end the marriage. Which is to be with MOM, which may also be part of the reason your taking it so hard that he picked her. You picked him, gave up your marriage and what was best for you kiddo's and he gave up nothing in return. Not only that, but he is still having his fun on the side.

 

I just hope for your sake, that when the fog lifts you haven't made a huge mistake. Rewritting the history of your marriage once in an affair is very common, once the fog lifts and your thinking more clearly the marriage that was "nothing" all of a sudden means everything.

 

Good luck to you.

[Quiet Storm]

I think that feelings, emotions, passion, connection are often more important for women than men. Women will change their whole lives for a feeling, because it feels so essential to her well being. "I love him, so I must be with him". We naturally want those that we love to be integrated into our life.

 

I find that men, while they feel just as passionately as we do, often do not put as much importance on feelings and emotions. They can love another woman and consider the relationship meaningful, but those emotions rarely prompt change. The existence of those emotions for another woman is not seen as a reason to divorce their wife. Many guys don't feel that need to integrate- they are content with having a wife and an OW separately, and loving them both.

 

The reason you left & he didn't is probably related to your individual comfort levels. Women who feel emotionally disconnected from their husbands often do not feel content staying "for the kids". They become very focused on the negative feelings & emotions, which eventually builds up to a level they can no longer tolerate. They feel miserable in their marriage, which prompts them to act.

 

Many men, however, still feel comfort with their wives, even if the passion & romance has faded. Wife & family are "home". They are content and don't focus on the emotions as much. They often expect passion to fade in any long term relationship anyway (and assume it will happen with OW eventually, too). Most aren't prompted to act because they just don't feel that miserable. They enjoy feeling passion & love, but that "chemistry" doesn't feel essential. If he can find another woman to make him feel that way while he's married, great, but those feelings are not important enough to divorce over.

 

Generally, I think men & women are very different when it comes to emotions. Of course, there are exceptions. Women usually focus on emotional connections, whether it is with family, kids, parents, husbands, friends. If we have a conflict with someone we love, we want to resolve it. If we feel love, we want to express it. If our child gets their feelings hurt, we want to protect them & make them feel better. These usually aren't just fleeting thoughts. Our inner self talk is filled with relationship issues- thinking of who we love, what they said, how they feel, how we feel, what it means, etc. I think most men are just not wired like that. Their inner self talk is not nearly as focused on emotions and the connections they have with other people. their emotional thoughts are fleeting. They think more about things they have to do, places they have to go, issues that interest them and activities such as sports or sex.

 

I can even see the difference even in my preteen kids- my daughters sleepovers consist of girls talking about their relationships with their friends, their parents, their siblings, their crush. What's going on in their minds seems to be very "feelings" focused. My son's sleepovers are boys playing video games, running around, play fighting, eating, talking about sports, etc.

 

So, I don't think MM that stay are choosing to be miserable. They just already have a plan for their life & that is the most important thing to them. Deviating from that plan is often viewed as failing. They seek out moments of passion & excitement & love, but they are extra bonus feelings- feelings that will prompt the choice to cheat, but not the choice to divorce.

 

You should go no contact with him. It will hurt, but its the only way you will move on with your life.

[A.Moscote]

If that is what he has decided, then I think the fairest steps for you is to just back off, focus on your recovery and turn your life into other direction. I have to agree with you however, it really is a questionable decision. Perhaps he really is strong and loves his wife very much.

But, if he still connecting with you while doing so, then I think it's safe for us to assume that he is a man harboring wicked intentions/values. Not the one worthy of building the future with, if the future is what you want.

 

Regarding the friendship aspect of it, you are the one who knows the real benefits of it, whether that friendship really does outweigh the risk or not. We can just remind you to be extra careful, and always keep up the boundary, and hopefully that friendship won't peg you from moving forward positively with your life (don't you worry about that?).

Imo though, it's too risky and hence, not wise. Imagine a recovering alcoholic accepting a job bartending. There are some rewards there, but definitely risking the recovery.

 

...Wanted to live authentically. Not going to be a mistress.

Surely you don't want to fall back into the affair and swallow your own words, don't you? So be careful, and take care.

Edited July 16, 2014 by A.Moscote

[Sasha1/2]

Why would anyone choose that? ...

I think he's going to spend the rest of his life hoping things will change and they just won't. ... The reason we arent together is because we are of different character, and these traits are not that of a person I would want to continue giving my heart to. ... He chose his M, but isnt comitting to it. ...

Why am I forcing him to do the right thing?... Do I just cut the attempts at friendship and leave him to his life of chosen dysfunctional misery?

 

Is he a cake eater? Does he want to restart the A to meet his unmet needs? Perhaps.

 

This is his life to live, not yours. You are different people and you will never completely understand his position, his preferences, his choices. If you cannot accept -- and respect -- your differences, you may struggle with friendship.

[MissBee]

Don't put the cart before the horse is my suggestion.

 

Take things as they come.

 

He has "dropped hints" about leaving, which is hardly the same as actually leaving and divorcing. Therefore, I would not worry about that right now. Did he support you as you divorced? If not, he can find his own way through it too. Lay low and continue living your life....IF and when he divorces then you can reopen the case about how to proceed with dating him, but for now all the what ifs are not reality as he hasn't in fact divorced and you're working on only hints.

 

His wife cheated but he cheated too before ever knowing about it...so both of them are wrong. What they decide after is what they decide. If he loves her as he says it may not be easy and as simple as simply divorcing her.So again, right now, things could stay the same or drastically change and I wouldn't make any sort of move until things actually unfold.

[beach]

You stated you don't want to be the OW yet he decided to stay married.

 

Does that make the decision for you or are you trying to force him to allow you to be his OW now?