flip-flop

[kis]

Over and over on this site you hear women complaining about the flip-flop, cold then hot, pushing away then pulling you back in that they all blame on their MM. I have experienced it too. Just wondering if there are any men out there who would like to explain why they do this?

[bentnotbroken]

Not a man,but it appears the answer would be because women(and men) allow it.

[Heart On]

Over and over on this site you hear women complaining about the flip-flop, cold then hot, pushing away then pulling you back in that they all blame on their MM. I have experienced it too.

 

Men who do this don't know why they do.But I think I know why.

 

Part of it is because when they are getting along with thier wives,they feel "guilty" and the push OW away,but when they are being judged negatively by thier wives,they need the ego boost so they come looking for thier OW.The other part is that they are commitment phobic and can't commit fully to Hello or Goodbye.

 

http://www.simplysolo.com/relationships/how_to_spot_a_commitment_phobic.html

 

]Commitment phobic men are tortured souls full of FEAR. They are in a constant state of emotional conflict because of their negative irrational beliefs about love, commitment and relationships. In relationships they create great confusion, havoc, pain, and anguish as their behaviours are often insensitive, unpredictable and bizarre.

 

These types of men can make women who are saints turn into mad women, as they play games with their minds and their hearts.

 

They are often unfaithful in relationships

 

4.They are fast to move in on a woman they are attracted to, and they pursue ardently until they win the woman over

 

5. They are very charming. They say and do all the right things and they can be very romantic. They are very good salesmen to get their own needs met, but in reality they have very little concern for the woman’s feelings, as they are always operating from hidden agendas.

 

6. These men are usually very affectionate and loving. This is because in their mind the relationship is not going to be long term, so they feel free to give affection and love, knowing it won’t be forever. It isn’t long though before they suddenly start rejecting the woman, by not ringing or not wanting to see her for days, or not including her in weekend arrangements etc. This is because they subtly want to give the woman the message that they don’t want a long term committed relationship.

 

7. Severe commitment phobics play the seduction/rejection game. They can’t make the decision to give totally to the relationship, but they can’t commit to walk away either. They feel trapped by both choices. They feel love for the woman when they don’t see her, but they want to run away when they become involved again.

 

"Allowing it" mean's not knowing or being ignorant to, how deeply thier issues run and trying to figure it out without benefit of knowledge while reacting to thier push/pull confusion.

 

IMO

Edited April 19, 2011 by Heart On

[Arrangrl]

Heart

 

That was a fantastic post.

 

I wonder though, if these men are committment phobic, why did they get married in the first place?

 

Arran x

[siuys]

I think it's because they don't really know what they want. They are not done in their marriages so cannot really commit to a new person. Classic emotional unavailability imho.

[Heart On]

From what I have read, Narcissim and commitment phobia go hand in hand.

 

http://loveaddicts.org/kindsofloveaddicts.html

 

http://passiveaggressive.homestead.com/PATraits.html

 

http://www.primal-page.com/madonna.htm

 

http://www.10wayshowto.com/10-ways-to-tell-if-the-person-you%E2%80%99re-in-love-with-has-commitment-phobia-fear-of-commitment/

 

 

• A commitment phobic person will find it hard to commit or to make a commitment to anything with family, friends or significant other if it isn’t in his/her agenda. Even if it’s a small task. They may often feel that you’re taking their personal time.
  
• 
  
• Commitment phobia can hold a person back from meeting their goals in life. Because things that they want the most they fear the most. (Closeness, togetherness, and unity) But yet their fear is so intense this is what they run from.
  
• 
  
• A commitment phobic person may often prefer to be single but not always stay single. They will commit to relationships but they never fully commit or if they do they hold back and will never be with that person 100%. There is always a certain part of their lives that stay private. This will make him/her feel more in control. Therefore, this will cause a lot of problems in any committed relationship.
  
• 
  
• By not committing to something 100% it leaves more control in the commitment phobic’s hands. Control feeds the commitment phobic’s illness. It acts as a safety net or an out when needed.
  
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• Commitment phobia people often want the same thing in life love and security, but once they get it they run. Something about routine that causes him to run. Usually this person starts to feel pressure and will look for reasons to sabotage what they have and once he/she can justify this in his or her mind, he then will walk away often blaming the other person.
  
• 
  
• When in a commitment phobic relationship you may be able to tell by the level of intimacy that this person will allow you to share with him/her. This level is always on the commitment phobic’s terms.
  
• 
  
• The commitment phobic will only let you get so close. He/she may even marry you, but if he/she is not aware of his/her commitment phobic behavior, your marriage will be a lonely one.
  
• 
  
• Commitment phobics are usually procrastinators especially when it comes to large purchases. Purchasing a house, car anything that is long term it will frighten them to death and often force them to run. A lease a term or a contract is often viewed as a trap to a commitment phobic. Again, this is the illness when they feel trapped and then they run.
  
• 
  
• Living with a commitment phobic person can be devastating to a non commitment phobic partner. The commitment phobic person will always hold back and it’s very rare that they will move forward and grow in a healthy way in their marriage or relationships.
  
• 
  
• Commitment phobic people are often seclusive, have very few close relationships and often make excuses as to why. It’s a viscous circle and it can become a ball of confusion for a non commitment phobic person.
  
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• The truth is most commitment phobs are afraid of commitment because of his/her insecurity. They are afraid of being hurt or giving their all in fear that he or she could be let down or even fail.
  
• 
  
• The most important thing to remember is a commitment phobic person will pick fights constantly when things are going well, this many times is his/her out when things are going to well.
  

These are the place I found to help me understand my xMM and also I wanted to say that this can be true of women too.

 

Hope it helps.....I just asked WHY alot while I was healing.

I needed answers and didn't know forums even existed when

I found myself enmeshed with a Narcissist/Commitment phobe.

 

heart On

[BenThereDunThat]

Heart On - thank you so much for the links. While I'm way past an involvement with a MM, I did recently get caught up with an extremely charming narcissist who got me with just about everything you posted in your first post on this thread.

 

Been reading this section a lot lately as I'm finding the siutation to be very familiar (i.e., sickening).

 

I will say though that my experience as an OW helped me to see a behavior pattern and I was able shut him down fairly quickly, told him to eff off in the most polite, firm way possible.

 

Still reeling a bit though.

[Heart On]

Glad I could offer some insight into thier minds.

 

I think it's amazing how similar they all are and saw

a pattern in who I chose with my broken choser and how easily I

trama bonded to the men in my life who were so emotionally unavailable

I HAD to ask questions or be doomed to repeat falling prey.

 

I know there are plenty of RED FLAGS with these men,the first one

being that they are MARRIED and I stupidly ignored that "flip/flop"

thinking my own judgement HAD to be off as no one could be

THAT audacious.

 

I was wrong.They can and are and will only hurt people who love them and push them away with fear and hang onto them with fear and it was just CRAZY!

 

I am long out too,and I am DAMN glad to say,I SURVIVED a Narcissist...but bearly.

 

I am OFF to the BEACH without having to wonder wait and worry EVER again about this...but I most certainly can't help but try to WARN and MAKE AWARE in the name of EMPATHY towards thier victims.

 

PEACE and better choices for us ALL!

 

heart On

[Breezy Trousers]

From what I have read, Narcissim and commitment phobia go hand in hand.

 

http://loveaddicts.org/kindsofloveaddicts.html

 

http://passiveaggressive.homestead.com/PATraits.html

 

http://www.primal-page.com/madonna.htm

 

http://www.10wayshowto.com/10-ways-to-tell-if-the-person-you%E2%80%99re-in-love-with-has-commitment-phobia-fear-of-commitment/

 

 

Hope it helps.....I just asked WHY alot while I was healing.

I needed answers and didn't know forums even existed when

I found myself enmeshed with a Narcissist/Commitment phobe.

 

heart On

 

Excellent information! Yes, the forums out there are excellent.

 

Not a dude, but wanted to share just the same ..

 

Flip flopping is practically a marker for a personality disorder. Steven Carter and Julia Sokol wrote lots of books about commitment-phobics over the years. It's telling that their more recent book is: "Help! I'm in Love with a Narcissist." They said they came to see that flip-flopping and narcissism were often intertwined. Truly one of the best books out there on narcissism, and I've read lots of them. .... Also strongly recommend the free podcasts offered by Melanie Tonia Evans on the subject.

 

Sandra Brown wrote a book about "dangerous men" all women should avoid and devoted an entire chapter to "married men." She says married men who have affairs are often terrified of emotional connection. They have affairs to AVOID intimacy. Attachment disorder... The problem is that we project our own experience onto these guys, thinking they are sharing our feelings, our experience. They're often not. We can't wrap our minds around that.

 

I feel if there was more public awareness on this subject, there would be fewer affairs. Getting informed on this stuff prevented me from destroying my life. Mr. Wonderful, who periodically pushed and made me feel "special" for two years merely shifted his attention to another target shortly after I made it clear it wasn't going to happen between us. If I hadn't already figured out he was a narcissist, I would have been deeply hurt. However, by then, thanks to the forums, I saw enough red flags to suspect women were interchangeable parts to him.... Just as his current "office" girlfriend is, evidently, because he's back to flirting with me again. (He's powerful, so I'm polite while distant. But privately retching.)

 

There's no emotional safety with these guys. They are often disturbed, but you don't know that until you get too close. That's why they don't want anyone too close.

 

OW actually help these guys STAY in their marriages. That way they can flip-flop perpetually between BS and OW.

Edited April 21, 2011 by Breezy Trousers