How many DDays have you had and how have things changed?

[MizFit]

I did a search and couldn't find anything so hope I'm not rehashing something yet again...

 

I've had 2 DDays with MM...the first was in November and he was leaving phone messages for me in a week. It was just over a month before we physically met. The second happened in early January and he was in touch within 2 weeks. We've spent the time emailing and on the phone and are meeting again next week.

 

The question is this...how many DDays have you had and how have they changed...

 

1 Your feelings about the A

2 Your feelings about the WS

3 Your feelings about the BS

4 Do you see changes in the priority that the A has in your life

 

Again...I hope this isn't something that'll get jumped on. I'd also be curious to hear from BS as to what their thoughts are...more desensitized as it goes or more infuriated.

 

Thanks...

[bittersweet memories]

I did a search and couldn't find anything so hope I'm not rehashing something yet again...

 

I've had 2 DDays with MM...the first was in November and he was leaving phone messages for me in a week. It was just over a month before we physically met. The second happened in early January and he was in touch within 2 weeks. We've spent the time emailing and on the phone and are meeting again next week.

 

The question is this...how many DDays have you had and how have they changed...

 

1 Your feelings about the A

2 Your feelings about the WS

3 Your feelings about the BS

4 Do you see changes in the priority that the A has in your life

 

Again...I hope this isn't something that'll get jumped on. I'd also be curious to hear from BS as to what their thoughts are...more desensitized as it goes or more infuriated.

 

Thanks...

 

 

If you can answer your own questions 1,2,3,4 that would be great. Curious to see what you have to say.

[MizFit]

1 Your feelings about the A

I have a more neutral feeling towards it...more controlled.

 

2 Your feelings about the WS

Not much has changed because in the DDays I had enough contact with the BS that I know he didn't throw me under a bus. She learned he has lied incessantly to her and we both learned he hasn't lied to me at all.

 

3 Your feelings about the BS

This is the strange one. I'm going to be brutally honest...I draw from my short stint as a BS. I didn't get past the first 5 minutes of DDay before I left. I could not accept his infidelity...period. I, therefore, struggle with BS that can accept it (struggle with them as in understanding the mindset, not that they are horrible or evil or wrong or bad). My sympathy for her has lessened each time because I can't believe she's in the same position willingly. Many BS will say the same about me, but he hasn't lied and he hasn't betrayed me...if he did it would be done.

 

4 Do you see changes in the priority that the A has in your life

I see that I've settled down with the A and am not so concerned if there isn't a call or an email. I've taken both MM and the A out of the top priorities in my life now.

 

 

Sorry about that...I guess I thought if I knew the answers everyone should!

[NoIDidn't]

Can I add a question too?

 

How many D-days does the OP have to have before they realize that the MP isn't going anywhere any time soon?

 

The MP may not have thrown the OP under the bus, or lied to them, but I don't get the need for several D-days or what that proves to the OP.

 

What do the several D-days represent to the OP? That the MP is willing to continue cheating with them, since they allow it? That the MP must really want them more since they keep coming back to the A? After a D-day, why is there even still an A? We know why the M still exists, Divorces don't happen overnight, but As can end overnight.

 

Okay, so that was more than "one" question. But I am curious as to what the answers may be.

[MizFit]

Can I add a question too?

 

How many D-days does the OP have to have before they realize that the MP isn't going anywhere any time soon?

In my case I'm not expecting the MP to go anywhere soon...he's said all along he'll do all he can to stay home. There are some circumstances that create that. I've written about them before so won't bore unless asked. He has never lied about it...he's stuck to his word from day 1.

 

The MP may not have thrown the OP under the bus, or lied to them, but I don't get the need for several D-days or what that proves to the OP.

It proves very little to me...nothing much has changed since either DDay. And he's willing to risk what he has fought so hard to protect, but I know he'll fight again the next time. That's probably why I don't make the A and the MM the priority they were before.

 

What do the several D-days represent to the OP? That the MP is willing to continue cheating with them, since they allow it? That the MP must really want them more since they keep coming back to the A? After a D-day, why is there even still an A? We know why the M still exists, Divorces don't happen overnight, but As can end overnight.

There shouldn't be an A, but the AP has carried it on. An affair can end overnight or it can last years. Marriages can end without a divorce paper being signed. What he wants only he knows...he has commitments he isn't willing to give up on his own, but there is a draw or he wouldn't risk it. Why wouldn't I allow it...I don't expect him to leave...I love him and I love his company. Nothing has changed since either DDay.

 

Okay, so that was more than "one" question. But I am curious as to what the answers may be.

 

Absolutely...ask all you want. I want a good discussion on this...my answers are above in bold...thanks.

[bittersweet memories]

1 Your feelings about the A

I have a more neutral feeling towards it...more controlled.

 

2 Your feelings about the WS

Not much has changed because in the DDays I had enough contact with the BS that I know he didn't throw me under a bus. She learned he has lied incessantly to her and we both learned he hasn't lied to me at all.

 

3 Your feelings about the BS

This is the strange one. I'm going to be brutally honest...I draw from my short stint as a BS. I didn't get past the first 5 minutes of DDay before I left. I could not accept his infidelity...period. I, therefore, struggle with BS that can accept it (struggle with them as in understanding the mindset, not that they are horrible or evil or wrong or bad). My sympathy for her has lessened each time because I can't believe she's in the same position willingly. Many BS will say the same about me, but he hasn't lied and he hasn't betrayed me...if he did it would be done.

 

4 Do you see changes in the priority that the A has in your life

I see that I've settled down with the A and am not so concerned if there isn't a call or an email. I've taken both MM and the A out of the top priorities in my life now.

 

 

Sorry about that...I guess I thought if I knew the answers everyone should!

 

Whats ammusing is "you" acutally believe he has "never" lied to you. He's lied to EVERYONE but you, uh yeah!! You actually believe that Bullcrap, how sad. You seem like a smart woman, you should know better. A liar is a liar to everybody.

[MizFit]

Whats ammusing is "you" acutally believe he has "never" lied to you. He's lied to EVERYONE but you, uh yeah!! You actually believe that Bullcrap, how sad. You seem like a smart woman, you should know better. A liar is a liar to everybody.

 

I am a smart woman and so is his W. In the emails and talks we had there was not one thing that he has said to me that was discrepant...believe me...there were a lot of things sent back and forth and at one point she actually made comment that at least he could be honest with one of us.

 

Did he lie...could be...but from anything I've experienced and with corroboration (sp) from his W it's pretty well firm in my head he hasn't.

 

You're welcome to believe what you will...I can't change your mind and in all fairness it's not an issue to me.

[OWoman]

A liar is a liar to everybody.

 

OTC. My H was completely honest with everyone - except his xW who was simply not informed until we'd decided we wanted to be together, at which point she was. Just because he chose to keep her in the dark until we knew what we wanted to do did not make him a liar to anyone else. It was simply knowledge on a "need to know" basis

[hopeless4u]

I did a search and couldn't find anything so hope I'm not rehashing something yet again...

 

I've had 2 DDays with MM...the first was in November and he was leaving phone messages for me in a week. It was just over a month before we physically met. The second happened in early January and he was in touch within 2 weeks. We've spent the time emailing and on the phone and are meeting again next week.

 

The question is this...how many DDays have you had and how have they changed...

 

We've had 2 DDays...still in contact..

 

1 Your feelings about the A

No A and there never will be until he's filed for D

2 Your feelings about the WS

He's more messed up than me but is trying to do the right thing

3 Your feelings about the BS

She knows how he feels about me but still wants him.....????

4 Do you see changes in the priority that the A has in your life

Again, no A but, yes I still love him but 'my life' comes 1st now.

 

Again...I hope this isn't something that'll get jumped on. I'd also be curious to hear from BS as to what their thoughts are...more desensitized as it goes or more infuriated.

 

Thanks...

 

 

This caught my eye so I answered above in bold:)

[OWoman]

I did a search and couldn't find anything so hope I'm not rehashing something yet again...

 

I've had 2 DDays with MM...the first was in November and he was leaving phone messages for me in a week. It was just over a month before we physically met. The second happened in early January and he was in touch within 2 weeks. We've spent the time emailing and on the phone and are meeting again next week.

 

The question is this...how many DDays have you had and how have they changed...

 

1 Your feelings about the A

2 Your feelings about the WS

3 Your feelings about the BS

4 Do you see changes in the priority that the A has in your life

 

Again...I hope this isn't something that'll get jumped on. I'd also be curious to hear from BS as to what their thoughts are...more desensitized as it goes or more infuriated.

 

Thanks...

 

No DDays, but there were a couple of "T Days" where he told her that he intended leaving - and, when we'd finalised details, when he'd be doing so. What it changed - for us, it made things more concrete. One more box to tick as we worked towards being together. For her - well, she didn't believe him. She didn't believe he'd want to leave, that he'd leave or that there was "someone else" until he physically left.

[hopeless4u]

No DDays, but there were a couple of "T Days" where he told her that he intended leaving - and, when we'd finalised details, when he'd be doing so. What it changed - for us, it made things more concrete. One more box to tick as we worked towards being together. For her - well, she didn't believe him. She didn't believe he'd want to leave, that he'd leave or that there was "someone else" until he physically left.

 

I had to comment on this, I think if my xMM could find his balls and his W could stop the emotional breakdown blackmail, this would happen.

[whichwayisup]

3 Your feelings about the BS

This is the strange one. I'm going to be brutally honest...I draw from my short stint as a BS. I didn't get past the first 5 minutes of DDay before I left. I could not accept his infidelity...period. I, therefore, struggle with BS that can accept it (struggle with them as in understanding the mindset, not that they are horrible or evil or wrong or bad). My sympathy for her has lessened each time because I can't believe she's in the same position willingly. Many BS will say the same about me, but he hasn't lied and he hasn't betrayed me...if he did it would be done.

 

Chances are, she has no clue he's back in contact with you.

You don't know about what he says to her behind closed doors, so he probably tells her he isn't in contact with you.

 

Just because you feel he hasn't betrayed you, or lied to you, doesn't mean he hasn't! You just don't know about it!! ..Yet..

[moaningmyrtle]

I was in an A for almost 18 years. As far as I know, she never found out. He had me perfectly compartmentized. So that brings another question- is it assumed or expected by the OW that there will eventually be a d-day?

In the beginning of my A, I couldn't fathom a d-day. I took extra care, often more care than he did, to make sure we never got caught. Because I knew if it was discovered, I'd be SOL. As things went on and feelings developed, I really didn't care if she found out. It became his responsibility to keep it hidden, not mine. Then I finally asked him what would happen if there ever was a d-day, and even after all those years, nothing had changed- he told me I'd be SOL. And that's when I ended it.

 

SOL? "Shoved Out Lovingly"?; "Shunted Out of my Life"?

 

I had to look it up - still not sure I got the right acronym but I do get the message.

 

I'm not sure if this is a T/J, but just out of interest how many OW have actually asked their MM what will happen if there is a d-day? If he says the A will end or that the A will go further underground, what is your attitude to that? How many MM have said they will leave their wife if there is a d-day?

 

Do OW need to be feeling "brave" to even ask such a question?

 

To answer this for my own situation I asked my H about this several months ago. His response was that he told the OW that the A would have to end if I found out. He said she seemed upset with this. Eventually she ended it. [Although she contacted him again a few years later in an apparent attempt to restart it] When I found out he did end it - she told me when we met that she knew this would be the outcome if/when I found out.

[NoIDidn't]

I was in an A for almost 18 years. As far as I know, she never found out. He had me perfectly compartmentized. So that brings another question- is it assumed or expected by the OW that there will eventually be a d-day?

In the beginning of my A, I couldn't fathom a d-day. I took extra care, often more care than he did, to make sure we never got caught. Because I knew if it was discovered, I'd be SOL. As things went on and feelings developed, I really didn't care if she found out. It became his responsibility to keep it hidden, not mine. Then I finally asked him what would happen if there ever was a d-day, and even after all those years, nothing had changed- he told me I'd be SOL. And that's when I ended it.

 

I can't say I blame you for ending it. But at least he was honest with you about what he was going to do.

 

What did you get for your 18 years with him? Not trying to dig you at all, as I imagine things ending has been very hard for you. Its just that when a marriage ends, the W gets something most of the time more than just her memories. Did you walk away from 18 years empty-handed?

 

There are lots of affairs like this that go on forever until the woman finally finds the strength to say *enough* and the BW never finds out. It becomes a normal situation after 18 years. How sad for both women though.

[NoIDidn't]

I'm not sure if this is a T/J, but just out of interest how many OW have actually asked their MM what will happen if there is a d-day? If he says the A will end or that the A will go further underground, what is your attitude to that? How many MM have said they will leave their wife if there is a d-day?

 

I am not sure if its a TJ or not, if so, my apologies, MizFit for continuing it.

 

I think this is actually a common conversation in As, at least at the beginning. My H's EA probably lasted for about one month, if I am being stingy with the time, but really about three to four months if I include the time that I suspected.

 

Anyway, I know he told her that if I found out that I would likely kick him out. He seemed to count on it. And she seemed to count on the fact that her boyfriend would likely kick her out too. Bunch of cowards, if you ask me. LOL. And yes, I told my H that's what I felt about his leaving his leaving up to me.

 

Most APs expect a D-day to either end the A (by legitimizing it, or ending it outright) or end the M (with Separation then divorce). But I honestly suspect that most OW feel like jthorne, in that they will be left sh*t out of luck should a D-day happen.

[NoIDidn't]

NoIDidnt- I got absolutely nothing for my 18 years. Nothing. He wasn't a gift giver, so I never got birthday, vday, or christmas gifts, though I bought him plenty. In fact, we had to go Dutch on trips cause he said he couldn't hide expenses from the W. In reality, he wAs just a cheap b@stard. So what I got for my time was bitterness- at him for letting the A escalate and for all the lies about how he loved me forever, and bitterness at myself for falling for it all in the first place.

Sorry to tj. I just hope someone can learn from my experience.

 

(((((((((((jthorne)))))))))))

 

I'm so sorry.

[fooled once]

H4U,

I had to comment on this,

I think if my xMM could find his balls and his W could stop the emotional breakdown blackmail, this would happen

 

 

H4U, I don't understand??? This was your response to

 

For her - well, she didn't believe him. She didn't believe he'd want to leave, that he'd leave or that there was "someone else" until he physically left.

 

So are you saying you wonder why he hasn't left? And you are basically blaming his wife for emotional blackmail?

 

Better yet, why are YOU still waiting for him? Can't use the excuse you love him because I am betting his wife loves him too She has a history with him, she has the MARRIAGE with him. You have lies, you have deceit, you have had a tractor trail hit you and run over you (figuratively), yet you still wait for him because "you love him".

 

Really?

 

How long are you going to wait out his wife? How long are you going to, in your words, wait for him to find his balls? Don't you ever think he is just jerking you around? Don't you ever think that he really has NO intention of leaving his wife for you?

 

MizFit ((hug)) I really appreciate your honesty. I appreciate that you aren't blaming others, you accept responsibility and you don't trash his wife because she has him and you only get snippets of him.

 

I do want to ask you though....you say he continues to cheat, yet continues to fight for his marriage. If he has no intention of leaving, why does he cheat? Why does he want his marriage so badly?

[MizFit]

Chances are, she has no clue he's back in contact with you.

You don't know about what he says to her behind closed doors, so he probably tells her he isn't in contact with you.

 

Just because you feel he hasn't betrayed you, or lied to you, doesn't mean he hasn't! You just don't know about it!! ..Yet..

 

In my last post you'll note I said that he hadn't lied or betrayed me, that I know of. Conversations with his wife verified that to both of us...you'll also note that I said if he does betray me or lie to me it will be over.

 

Of course he tells her he isn't in contact...if he didn't it would be an open marriage and not an A.

[MizFit]

H4U,

I had to comment on this,

 

 

H4U, I don't understand??? This was your response to

 

 

 

So are you saying you wonder why he hasn't left? And you are basically blaming his wife for emotional blackmail?

 

Better yet, why are YOU still waiting for him? Can't use the excuse you love him because I am betting his wife loves him too She has a history with him, she has the MARRIAGE with him. You have lies, you have deceit, you have had a tractor trail hit you and run over you (figuratively), yet you still wait for him because "you love him".

 

Really?

 

How long are you going to wait out his wife? How long are you going to, in your words, wait for him to find his balls? Don't you ever think he is just jerking you around? Don't you ever think that he really has NO intention of leaving his wife for you?

 

MizFit ((hug)) I really appreciate your honesty. I appreciate that you aren't blaming others, you accept responsibility and you don't trash his wife because she has him and you only get snippets of him.

 

I do want to ask you though....you say he continues to cheat, yet continues to fight for his marriage. If he has no intention of leaving, why does he cheat? Why does he want his marriage so badly?

 

Hi FO...thanks for the hug...no matter how stellar or horrible life can be we all need help and support!

 

I won't trash her...he never has. He has said from day 1 that she is a wonderful woman and a fantastic mother. There are a few minor things he's said, but no more than anyone would say...said to me and forgotten by me in seconds. She doesn't truly have him though...he may be in the same house and in the same bed, but from all appearances (information from both of them) it is basically emotionally lacking and neither have been or are addressing that. Please keep in mind there was MC well before I came along and it obviously hasn't worked.

 

He has a special needs daughter and is torn. He's been clear that the one woman in the house keeping him there is not his wife. He's close to retirement and he has a very large family that he is basically the patriarch to. Between the fact he will always have a child in the house and the financial situation and the perceptions, he will not leave of his own accord.

 

I would put this question out there to anyone who cares to answer it. He is working so hard to hold onto the marriage and for so many reasons I have accepted and understood them all from the outset...why has he risked it so often. If it was only for the sex he could easily find that in a million different places. Please don't think I'm asking for validation or for someone to come on and say oh you're just hanging on for hope. Of course I'd love it if he left her, got the IC he needed to sort his life out, and we gave it a shot...however that won't happen. I want a real answer if anyone has one...I've never cheated on a partner so I don't understand that mindset-what makes you risk it...because the BS 'allows' it by lack of action (and I'm not saying leaving-I mean demanding MC etc).

 

None of the questions about MM can be answered by me...none by anyone here on LS. They are his decisions and his thoughts. He has been totally honest of his stance in the A from the start and he hasn't wavered from it...I have a full and happy life and he's one part of it. He's well aware I'm dating and looking for a long term relationship. As I've told him once I find that we're over...he is very jealous of my dating and he hates the thought I'll be able to end it the way he should have a million times. Until then...I love him and I enjoy his company.

 

Thanks to everyone for some very insightful questions and answers.

[OWoman]

I'm not sure if this is a T/J, but just out of interest how many OW have actually asked their MM what will happen if there is a d-day? If he says the A will end or that the A will go further underground, what is your attitude to that? How many MM have said they will leave their wife if there is a d-day?

 

Do OW need to be feeling "brave" to even ask such a question?

 

Initially this was never an issue, as I didn't want him to leave his M. At that point, I expected that if he got careless and was discovered, the A would end. But later, when we decided we wanted to be together, the issue was about timing - we needed a plan, and we needed a schedule, which included when to tell her. If during that phase she had discovered before the scheduled date of informing her, our plans would have been a bit disrupted, but not aborted. We were both quite clear about that - but luckily it wasn't necessary.

[Fallen Angel]

I am content being with a man who I know to be honest with me. Has he always been? No. He lied by ommission about being married, for years before we became romantically interested in each other, and continued that ommission into the affair.

 

But once he came clean with me about that, I believe he has been honest with me. Our relationship is honest because he knows that lying to me is the one thing he could do that I would not be able to forgive. *shrug*

 

I am sorry that your experiences have left you convinced that people can not admit that they made a mistake, and then never make the same mistake with you again. I suppose I am just more optimistic about the true nature of human beings. And the one I am involved with in particular.

 

He is a good man, who has made some mistakes, but who loves me, and is loved by me. And I trust him. I feel badly for you that you do not have that in your life, BSM.

[SarahRose]

Oops, bad post and now can't edit.

I meant to say I think most OW are afraid to ask the d day question. Especially if they want more from the A.

 

NoIDidnt- I got absolutely nothing for my 18 years. Nothing. He wasn't a gift giver, so I never got birthday, vday, or christmas gifts, though I bought him plenty. In fact, we had to go Dutch on trips cause he said he couldn't hide expenses from the W. In reality, he wAs just a cheap b@stard. So what I got for my time was bitterness- at him for letting the A escalate and for all the lies about how he loved me forever, and bitterness at myself for falling for it all in the first place.

Sorry to tj. I just hope someone can learn from my experience.

 

I was going to ask you was it worth it?

 

What kept you hanging in there all those years?

[bittersweet memories]

I am content being with a man who I know to be honest with me. Has he always been? No. He lied by ommission about being married, for years before we became romantically interested in each other, and continued that ommission into the affair.

 

But once he came clean with me about that, I believe he has been honest with me. Our relationship is honest because he knows that lying to me is the one thing he could do that I would not be able to forgive. *shrug*

 

I am sorry that your experiences have left you convinced that people can not admit that they made a mistake, and then never make the same mistake with you again. I suppose I am just more optimistic about the true nature of human beings. And the one I am involved with in particular.

 

He is a good man, who has made some mistakes, but who loves me, and is loved by me. And I trust him. I feel badly for you that you do not have that in your life, BSM.

 

 

Oh don't feel badly for me.LOL.. I have more than enough love i don't need love from a MM to make me happy thats for sure. Yes, we all make mistakes and some of us learn from them...but

 

No matter how you twist and turn this he's still lieing, manipulating, cheating. I feel sad for YOU, that you have to settle for second best. If that how you like it...oh well.

[Fallen Angel]

Oh don't feel badly for me.LOL.. I have more than enough love i don't need love from a MM to make me happy thats for sure. Yes, we all make mistakes and some of us learn from them...but

 

No matter how you twist and turn this he's still lieing, manipulating, cheating. I feel sad for YOU, that you have to settle for second best. If that how you like it...oh well.

 

You perceive it as me being second best, I disagree.

 

Not only am I a wonderful, warm, caring, loving, beautiful, smart, and funny woman (therefore second to no one, thank you very much ) but I get the best of him. I get the him that is happy, I get the him who is loving, caring, warm, sensitive, sensual, sexual, smart, sexy, funny.. and focused on me. When he is away from me he is thinking about me, and is calling me, emailing me, texting me, looking for me online to instant message me, leaving his house to be able to speak more freely to me.. in effect, still focused on me . When he is with me, he does not focus on anyone but me... he is spending all his time with me, talking to me, holding my hand, loving me. In no way do I think I am second best.. and since in my relationship it is my experiences of the facts that matter.. your opinion of me is unimportant.

[bittersweet memories]

You perceive it as me being second best, I disagree.

 

Not only am I a wonderful, warm, caring, loving, beautiful, smart, and funny woman (therefore second to no one, thank you very much )but I get the best of him. I get the him that is happy, I get the him who is loving, caring, warm, sensitive, sensual, sexual, smart, sexy, funny.. and focused on me. When he is away from me he is thinking about me, and is calling me, emailing me, texting me, looking for me online to instant message me, leaving his house to be able to speak more freely to me.. in effect, still focused on me . When he is with me, he does not focus on anyone but me... he is spending all his time with me, talking to me, holding my hand, loving me. In no way do I think I am second best.. and since in my relationship it is my experiences of the facts that matter.. your opinion of me is unimportant.

 

You sound to scripted ..U are trying to hard to convince yourself or maybe others you are content with being the OW. After reading your "Dear Him" post someone posted in another thread I'm just not buying what you are selling above, not that it matters what I think. Just throwing it out there.