How important is what we deserve?

[wheelwright]

This idea comes from something my xMOM said, but I think has countless resonances.

 

When we were at our happiest - in the A and thinking of a future life together (it didn't happen) he said "I don't deserve this" - meaning the happiness he had with me.

 

I think this was a complex statement. He felt in general (messed up childhood) he didn't deserve it, he felt the way he treated his W in the A meant he didn't deserve something good from it, he just didn't trust the extent of my love.

 

He also said his BW didn't deserve how he treated her.

 

I never really thought about what I or others deserved. I just followed my heart and trusted that was the right thing to do. I told him everyone needs and deserves to be touched and loved.

 

And now there is the sense that I got what I deserved - heartbreak.

 

I have to add here that I really did not see myself as breaking up his M. She had told me she didn't love him, and I knew I did. But after DDay I see that what I did caused her pain and regret my behaviour through that. Just to minimise bashing.

 

If we make our decisions based on low expectations about what we ourselves deserve mixed with dutiful feelings about what our Ms deserve, is this a way to get the 'right' answer? This question isn't as disingenuous as it might appear.

 

What does this 'deserve' mean in such a complex situation? I know we all deserve honesty, love and intimacy.

 

Did this 'deserving' factor play a part in your scenarios?

[bentnotbroken]

In God's eyes no of us get what we deserve and for that I am thankful. But humans deserve to be treated with not just honesty, respect, love(agape at least), to be treated with dignity. No one believes that our emotions aren't strong, they are. Where we tend to screw up is to allow those emotions to absolutely rule doing what's right by others. We live in a culture that tells us to look out for #1, where out wants and needs should come first. We can't lose sight of the fact that we don't live in a vacuum and our actions do affect others.

 

MM didn't consider anything other than what he wanted. If he had no of you would be dealing with the fallout. You didn't consider anything other than your love, if you had you wouldn't be here trying to find your way back to stable ground. And without doubt I am sure BS didn't consider some one's feelings or she wouldn't be dealing with this mess either.

 

Unfortunately it is part of the human condition.

[moaningmyrtle]

This idea comes from something my xMOM said, but I think has countless resonances.

 

When we were at our happiest - in the A and thinking of a future life together (it didn't happen) he said "I don't deserve this" - meaning the happiness he had with me.

 

I think this was a complex statement. He felt in general (messed up childhood) he didn't deserve it, he felt the way he treated his W in the A meant he didn't deserve something good from it, he just didn't trust the extent of my love.

 

He also said his BW didn't deserve how he treated her.

 

I never really thought about what I or others deserved. I just followed my heart and trusted that was the right thing to do. I told him everyone needs and deserves to be touched and loved.

 

And now there is the sense that I got what I deserved - heartbreak.

 

I have to add here that I really did not see myself as breaking up his M. She had told me she didn't love him, and I knew I did. But after DDay I see that what I did caused her pain and regret my behaviour through that. Just to minimise bashing.

 

If we make our decisions based on low expectations about what we ourselves deserve mixed with dutiful feelings about what our Ms deserve, is this a way to get the 'right' answer? This question isn't as disingenuous as it might appear.

 

What does this 'deserve' mean in such a complex situation? I know we all deserve honesty, love and intimacy.

 

Did this 'deserving' factor play a part in your scenarios?

 

This is an interesting point. To be honest I always get a bit uncomfortable when posters tell a troubled person (whether they be OW or BW) that they "deserve" to be happy or to have someone that is truly committed to only them or whatever it is.

 

I think that this sense of deserving something is not much different to the sense of entitlement that many MM seem to have (eg a MM who thinks he has an entitlement to sex, which leads on to an A).

 

I tend to think that if the focus shifted slightly to what people don't deserve rather than what they do then the outcomes might be different. For an example a MM who thinks that he does not deserve to be deprived of sex by his W, but that she doesn't deserve his infidelity might do something different to having an A. An OW who focuses on the fact that she doesn't deserve to share a man and that another woman doesn't deserve her (the OW) participating in a betrayal, may do something different. A W who focuses on what she and her own H don't deserve (a M lacking in intimacy and physical expression) may do something different that may help "fix" marital problems.

 

I haven't properly thought this through, so my analogies may fall down in a heap. No matter if they do, I still think the attitude of "I deserve ..." (especially love with another woman's husband) contributes to affairs and the pain they so often cause everyone involved.

[BB07]

Great post Moaningmyrtle! A different spin on the question and an awesome answer.

[wheelwright]

I feel my original idea for this thread was complex, and you have done it justice here MM.

 

This is an interesting point. To be honest I always get a bit uncomfortable when posters tell a troubled person (whether they be OW or BW) that they "deserve" to be happy or to have someone that is truly committed to only them or whatever it is.

 

But you don't address the idea that people feel they might not deserve certain human needs.

 

I think that this sense of deserving something is not much different to the sense of entitlement that many MM seem to have (eg a MM who thinks he has an entitlement to sex, which leads on to an A).

 

I think this may be what my xMM was talking about now you say it - he sometimes felt entiltled, other times felt the weight of the betrayal. So yes, maybe I am in fairy land when I say it was about his happiness, was probably just about the sex.

 

I tend to think that if the focus shifted slightly to what people don't deserve rather than what they do then the outcomes might be different. For an example a MM who thinks that he does not deserve to be deprived of sex by his W, but that she doesn't deserve his infidelity might do something different to having an A. An OW who focuses on the fact that she doesn't deserve to share a man and that another woman doesn't deserve her (the OW) participating in a betrayal, may do something different. A W who focuses on what she and her own H don't deserve (a M lacking in intimacy and physical expression) may do something different that may help "fix" marital problems.

 

I agree with this very intelligent response. This is the problem with the term 'deserve' from the outset. It implies that we are owed without having earned. But at the same time, I feel this misses some of the complexity here. We can think about what we deserve in ways which respect all the players, which is what you are advocating. I want to disagree with you for some reason (my pride?) but hell I think you are right. I am not sure about the logical argument though.

 

I haven't properly thought this through, so my analogies may fall down in a heap. No matter if they do, I still think the attitude of "I deserve ..." (especially love with another woman's husband) contributes to affairs and the pain they so often cause everyone involved.

 

I also never said I deserved his love. I felt allowed because of her lack of feeling, but I never felt I deserved anything. And neither did he.

 

But I felt he deserved more.

 

And I feel you missed some of the thrust of the thread, because you turned it around cleverly to talk about people thinking they deserved something they weren't entitled to. But I was talking from a position that acknowledged this lack.

 

I found your response intelligent and I hope it doesn't shut down the exploratory nature of my enquiry.

[GreenEyedLady]

I think it is essentially what we demand than deserve.

 

I demand to be treated with respect.

 

I teach others how to treat me by what I accept.

 

I don't accept being someone's doormat and I don't really think it's a matter of deserving at all.

 

I think it comes down to self-worth. I decide something and go for it. Failure is not an option. Sometimes it's just a push in another direction.

 

GEL

[OWoman]

What does this 'deserve' mean in such a complex situation? I know we all deserve honesty, love and intimacy.

 

Did this 'deserving' factor play a part in your scenarios?

 

I think the notion of "deserving" relates to self-esteem. People who feel they "don't deserve" something good typically have low self-esteem, whereas those who feel they deserve good things typically have good self-esteem. Those who feel entitled may have inflated self-esteem, and those who feel they don't deserve something bad may lack self-awareness, or may have some kind of persecution complex.

 

Good stuff happens. Bad stuff happens. I think thinking in terms of whether or not one "deserves" it doesn't really add much value; rather, I'd like to think that I'm enabling good things by acting in a way that facilitates those. I'm not trying to buy "karmic credits" by doing so, but I'm making myself more receptive to good things by having a positive and constructive attitude. People who wallow in negativity and self-doubt will seldom enjoy any happiness or luck that does come there way, as they're forever doubting their "right" to it, and so they diminish it.

 

Something bad that you don't "deserve" is misfortune - and an opportunity to grow and develop.

 

Something good that you don't "deserve" is a blessing - and an opportunity to enjoy and relish, to remember fondly through the bad times.

 

And anything you get that you feel you have deserved is just that - your just desserts