TO MM who cheat/have OW, what's real?

[learnfrommymistakes]

Hello

To all the MM or men in long term serious relationships.....

 

When you decided to cheat or have an affair, what led to it, and how did you feel personally about betraying your wife? THIS IS not a bash or judgement, I was a very wounded OW for a while, and I just could not get over what he was doing to his wife, the lies, business trips etc.

 

I realize some men are in horrible relationships/horrible and these A's happen

 

I also realize there are men who have been married for 20 plus years and the relationship just got old and stale and mundane, and had cracks, and things just happened, and an A happened.

 

My exMM seemed, in my mind, to not have guilt, to just say I ENJOY YOUR COMPANY, and leave it at that, never seemed to care he was lying to her...never...not that I saw. I think he totally compartmentalized it...which is I guess what a lot of people in affairs do. I cant do that..at all. I was not built for affairs, it just is too immoral for me, and to others I have hurt...for me, I could not just take it for what it was..I fell hard and loved hard and sacrificed a lot..as a lot of OW do. Do you all care? I mean I know men hate to talk abt communication and issues, but how do u realyl feel for your OW..? was she just a fling, an opportunity to get attention??

 

BUT what I dont understand is..how did you feel toward your wife when you lied, or came home after a weekend with the OW? How did you have sex withy our W and look in her eyes and know you were lying?

 

Were you worried about diseases, did you use protection?

 

Did youhave guilt, were you torn or did you l0ove the chase, fantasy and attention, having the ball in your court, having the OW have to put up with putting you first?

 

What did you really feel for the OW? Did you fall hard and it was real, or was it convenient and sexy, and you know you could get away with it?

 

Did you ever feel badly for it, did you ever feel badly for the OW, and what you put her through (she put herself through as well..i am not blaming)

 

I amjust trying to get in the head of several men who cheated, who actually had a somewhat ok marriage, I mean nothing scathingly horrible happened, you just grew apart.

 

How is it going from being physical with the OW to going with the W?

 

It seems men and many women or some, can compartmentalize what they do...I cant. I always had horrid guilt and shame and issues about all of it.

 

Would a MM lie about loving you if he lives thousands of miles of away and only saw you once a year...what is the point? Does he love the attention and ego? The sex I guess..but if its only once a year, why go through all the hassles? Cause I kept my mouth shut, cause you really cared or cause you are a lying schemer who found someone willing to do it your way?

 

I believe my ex MM is inherintly good but a coward, and I cant trust him. When he told me, tells me he still loves me, it makes me think he wants to date me, but in reality, he wants to just have the fantasy...not the relationship. I dont hate men, I dont hate him, I just cant make sense of my past and I want to move on, and not spend more time wodnering if he lied all the time, if he has other OW and why he freaks out when I ask questions I deserve to know anwers to...LIKE: Are you sleeping with other women, if so, get an AIDS test etc etc. I dont tell him what to do or who to see, but man, if I ask abt other women, or what he is doing, it goes to hell in handbasket.

 

I mean as a women who spent 6 years on and off with him, physically, intimate, is it crazy for me to want to know who else he is boinking or sleeping with?? Its abt my safety and diseases, not control

 

I HATE THIS

thanks for letting me vent, its all coming to a head for me and I want to learn, grow and never, ever let someone get to me like this again, It is brutal to be the OW at times, even tho we willing do it...

 

thanks

Hugs to all, man things get complicated in life...hah?

LFMM

[Spark1111]

I can only speak to my own situation as a fBS. I think he was lonely and depressed and mid-life crising, and he......blamed me and the marriage for all of HIS problems. Its an easy thing to do.

 

So he distanced himself and disconnected emotionally and all of my efforts were rejected and....then I distanced myself because it takes two committed people to make it work.

 

We were now both in a lonely place, going through the motions, paying bills, raising kids, etc. I begged to go to counseling together, but he refused, and like I said, it was easier to blame me. Counseling is hard work.

 

He met her at work and she sparked his male ego and told him how wonderful he was....well you know how it goes. Not having shared any history together, she certainly COULD see him through new eyes.

 

And I believe that is often the biggest draw to start an affair; the opportunity to re-invent yourself in the eyes of someone new.

 

I think at the time, he had very real feelings for her, cared for her, hell, maybe even loved her. Seriously thought of a future with her.

 

But I also believe these feelings, while true, are born out of a time of confusion, and remain somewhat shaky when exposed to the light of day.

 

He did throw her under the bus and my heart broke for her.

 

But yes, at the time, he really did care for her.

[RedDevil66]

I'm not a MM, of course, but I can tell you, most of the time, men cheating on their wives is not complicated at all.

It's simple, fragile ego, needy women, boobs and sex

 

Most men don't cheat for lack of love, they cheat because their ego's are VERY VERY fragile!

 

This is why most MM never leave their wive, they love them but get the ego boost from the needy OW

[learnfrommymistakes]

thanks Thomas and redd.

I don't think all men cheat just to cheat, or just because they are "men". But I do wonder about the men who seems to fall in love or say they love their OW, you see it on LS all the time, we hear the same lines, similar, and these men are GAGA and all over it...but at the same time, rarely do anything about it.

 

I just think perhaps MM and MW get very into these A and it is intoxicating, and perhaps it is way more exciting than whats at home, and they do fall. They do care, they may even love the OW or OM, but perhaps most MM and MW realize they will never be with their A person, most....not all.

 

i have never wanted to be married, hate dishonesty and love my space, but dispise the A i had, well I was single. You would think I would enjoy the flexible and non commital nature of an A, but i hated it because all I could think about was his lying to his wife, him spending money to see me, when it should have gone to the kids or something else, and so on. WHY risk it all, who knows

Now who is rambling...

WTF, my head is spinning

thanks for your help and suport, this group is fab!

lfmm

[OWoman]

I'm not a MM, of course, but I can tell you, most of the time, men cheating on their wives is not complicated at all.

It's simple, fragile ego, needy women, boobs and sex

 

Most men don't cheat for lack of love, they cheat because their ego's are VERY VERY fragile!

 

This is why most MM never leave their wive, they love them but get the ego boost from the needy OW

 

While I've no doubt that that may be true in some cases, the opposite equally applies - I've seen countless MMs hook up with strong, independent OWs because their Ws are so clingy and needy. They stay with the clingy, needy W because of their "knight in shining armour" syndrome that still, deep down, feels they should be able to rescue her, and feel guilty about leaving her when she can't live without him (while the strong, sorted OW was just fine before MM, and will be just fine after....)

[someonesangel]

While I've no doubt that that may be true in some cases, the opposite equally applies - I've seen countless MMs hook up with strong, independent OWs because their Ws are so clingy and needy. They stay with the clingy, needy W because of their "knight in shining armour" syndrome that still, deep down, feels they should be able to rescue her, and feel guilty about leaving her when she can't live without him (while the strong, sorted OW was just fine before MM, and will be just fine after....)

 

Bizzare that you say that. When we were just talking, I was talking about IC and not being silly knowing that I too had things to work on, to question why I would take 2nd and more important the weaknesses to do that.

 

His exact response, " Weakness, I think only a strong woman could have the confidence needed to be in a relationship like ours".

[Virgo1982]

I've always been able to survive anything and I gave him hell which made me ask him what was wrong with him. The last time he tried to contact me, I told him, "You need to stop feeling sorry for yourself and do SOMETHING for your f*cking FAMILY." (I was so annoyed) He replied, "You're right."

 

I've gained a good bit of perspective of why people cheat from married people. It seems some feel the OW is not a worthy human being. So, because they know the WS is never leaving them, some BS's are hurt by affairs, but each person has no plans of leaving the M. Then, the BS will often make the WS pay for what they've done, but stay. The flipside of always saying "they never leave their W," is that the W never leaves the H. And he knows the BS sees the OW as a (insert a vicious name here). That's how he explains why she never meant anything to him when he gets caught. If he's honest about his feelings, that will take much more effort to get over and because he's spent months/years lying, he believes it is more than okay because at least he's not having an affair anymore.

 

In a big picture sense, I would have to wonder who needs the MM more than the W, with children and/or a life built together? While some of us OW may fall for the MM, we aren't completely dependent on him, which might be another reason to have an affair. The pressure of being the "man of the house" is relieved when he is with the OW. Or aspects of the OW's personality are different from the W's. Or he doesn't want to be alone and wants to see what else is out there. But because he is the same person, both women react to him in a similar manner and he feels he might as well stay where he is.

 

I've seen guys in terrible emotional hell here trying to sort out the affair and I've seen guys say their wives aren't having sex with them and they need to find it elsewhere. All men don't cheat and all men who cheat do not cheat for the same reasons. If all men are the same, then all women are the same and so what is the real difference between the W and the OW anyway? And all BS are not the same. If that's the case, the only things really keeping a broken M together is the kids, house, etc. not the fact that all women who are M are so much better than the OW. My xMM's W was cheating with some guy. (I saw the evidence)

 

Oh, the possibilities...

[learnfrommymistakes]

Virgo

Well said, thank you for this observation. It makes a lot of sense to me. Of course a cheating spouse is going to be less than transparent about their feelings for the affair person when asked, cornered, discovered, etc. I would think most people accused of having an "A" that are hiding it, would throw the OW under the bus to not make it worse for the wounded spouse, kids, or for totally selfish reasons. I mean how many people im marriages they are trying to save, or not leave, will say " YES I HAVE strong passionate feelings and great sex with a wonderful OW and she gets me, loves me, makes me feel like king kong, etc". I am sure some spouses are ready to admit an affair, and talk semi truths, but the majority would probably have to protect their family and wifes and circles, as to not look like a fu@@head...

 

A long time ago, when i met my xMM, and he was separated, we dated, he went back to his wife without me knowing...(major punch in gut) it was evident he had to lie about me from that day on. Instead of protecting me, who had no idea he was seeing her and living with her again, he probably told her, my guess, "this woman was just a friend, meant nothing to me, you and i were separated and going though tough times..but its nothing", etc etc. From that moment on, everything changed.

 

He did get divorced, but I imagine she still has no idea about our affair...she only knew that years ago we met while he was on business and separated..and we were friends. SO it is what it is. I always felt like sh** knowing I was a secret from everything and everyone in his world...and thats no way to live..not at all. Whats hard is the feelings you feel when u are with this person you should not be...and to try and decipher whats real, whats bull**** and what is all made up in your head.

 

I do know people who were in harsh, loveless or bitter situations and I sort of understood that type of A, not accept it, but understood why it happened, way more than some cheater, schemer who is just bored and sex crazed and wants his cake and eats it too...There are hundreds of reasons people cheat, no two are same, but some common threads appear time and time again. It feels so utterly real when u are deep in the throws of this intoxication, but realize, perhaps it is not what it seems and that no good will come out of it. I mean most people would say their affair did not end well, and many people were crushed along the way.

 

I mean the world affair says it all, really. It already comes with a red warning flag. Maybe the dictionary should just change the word "affair" to mean...."WHEN SOMEONE SHOULD RUN FOR HILLS WITH TRACK SHOES ON AND NEVER LOOK BACK"...DANGER DANGER...lol.....run forrest run

 

I realize some cheating spouses have a lot of remorse or guilt or mixed feelings or have a painful struggle because they really love or care for both people deeply. I dont assume everyone who cheats is a complete ass, it is just hard to know whats true.

 

okay, enough posting for now, getting tired of hearing my own thoughts...lol

lfmm

[OpenBook]

Would a MM lie about loving you if he lives thousands of miles of away and only saw you once a year...what is the point? Does he love the attention and ego? The sex I guess..but if its only once a year, why go through all the hassles? Cause I kept my mouth shut, cause you really cared or cause you are a lying schemer who found someone willing to do it your way?

 

It's a little bit of All-Of-The-Above, I think.

 

There's no way you can really get inside somebody else's head. All you can do is take what they SAY to you, and compare it to what they DO.

 

The Lesson I Learned: Put yourself first. If being in a relationship (ANY relationship) is hurting you, walk away from it... no matter how agonizing it is to take those steps away from him.

 

And it IS agonizing. But it's the only way to get yourself in a better place.

[jj33]

Im not clingy and neither is xMMs wife. He cant abide clingy people he is attracted to strong independent women. So the stereotype doesnt apply.

 

Every situation is different.

 

But learning you are grasping at straws. You are looking for a way of being able to say he loves me its ok I should see him (or so it seems).

 

All you need to know is he is divorced and he is dating other women.

 

While its normal that you would want to get into the head of someone who hurt you, make no mistake about it, he has hurt you.

 

And regardless of WHY he cheated, he isnt showing you the care and respect you deserve now that he is single.

 

My short answer to why is who knows, but 99% of the time when somenoe strays they are not shopping for a new spouse. They are relieving tension and filling in the gaps looking to get their needs met.

 

It doesnt mean he doesnt care for you or doesnt enjoy your company or even admire you more than any other woman he has ever met.

 

But none of that matters if he is not treating you properly and he is not.

 

So you have no choice but to "fire him".

[Virgo1982]

I guess because it's been a while for me. And I now look at the MM and his M in a realistic way. I actually feel sorry for his W. I spent a short time with him and she has the rest of her life to spend with him. I can definitely see how my feelings and POV have changed over time. He has made repeated attempts to continue with me and I finally told him that he and his W should stop involving other people in their sham of a marriage and fix it or move on. I told him they were both ridiculous and he should pretend I never existed. I also told him I do not care what she does to him because he is either being a doormat or a liar to keep allowing such things to happen and that I don't want to replace her. I explained that I do not care if they renew their vows or divorce. I've gone through all sorts of justifications and theories on the path to where I am now.

 

I can not tell OW or GEL their situations are completely different because of the outcome. You can not tell Bentnotbroken she should have stayed with Mr. Messy because you stayed with your WS. All I know is, GEL made a great point in regards to choices. Everything boils down to choices rather than emotion. I've talked to women who bash cheaters and say, "of course I have wanted to cheat, but I don't because..." Once again, it boils down to choices.

 

Some people are in loveless marriages where neither cheats and they stay together and some get a divorce. Some people have affairs and stay together and divorce because of the OP. Some people have affairs and work things out and some people get divorces after the make attempts to work things out. My reality is that whatever happens with them is their business and I have my own life to lead. So, chances are you won't catch me bashing a BS or OW because I'm bitter about the choices I've made. After all, they were MY choices. And because I accept the control I have over my own destiny, I am not-nor have I ever been-a victim.

 

You can choose to hear your partner when they speak and you can choose to ignore them. You can choose to be patient when you express your feelings to them or you can choose to be impatient. You can choose to stay in an affair and you can choose to get out of one. You choose to stay with a cheating spouse or you can choose to leave. You can choose to stay in an unhappy marriage or you can choose to leave. You can choose to cheat as revenge or you can choose not to cheat. You can go cold on the cheater or you can try to heat things up. As a BS/MM/OW you can choose to blame the BS/MM/OW or you can see the situation for what it really is.

 

To answer your question again, I have received various answers to the question in your OP IRL. There is evidence on LS of these various answers in the Infidelity Forum.

[Virgo1982]

Im not clingy and neither is xMMs wife. He cant abide clingy people he is attracted to strong independent women. So the stereotype doesnt apply.

 

Every situation is different.

 

But learning you are grasping at straws. You are looking for a way of being able to say he loves me its ok I should see him (or so it seems).

 

All you need to know is he is divorced and he is dating other women.

 

While its normal that you would want to get into the head of someone who hurt you, make no mistake about it, he has hurt you.

 

And regardless of WHY he cheated, he isnt showing you the care and respect you deserve now that he is single.

 

My short answer to why is who knows, but 99% of the time when somenoe strays they are not shopping for a new spouse. They are relieving tension and filling in the gaps looking to get their needs met.

 

It doesnt mean he doesnt care for you or doesnt enjoy your company or even admire you more than any other woman he has ever met.

 

But none of that matters if he is not treating you properly and he is not.

 

So you have no choice but to "fire him".

 

That's my point. That is why I do not want to replace his W. That is why I do not want him to contact me even if he does divorce.

 

Every situation is not the same and to make generalizations only puts you at a disadvantage. Making choices based on your situation and accepting your choices is the best way to go IMO. Whatever choices you make will result in your consequences. If you decide to continue with him, I would not engage with him as you did in the affair. I would set some serious boundaries. But if you do not think you can do that, it might be best to leave him alone.

[Alpha Female]

99% of the time when somenoe strays they are not shopping for a new spouse. They are relieving tension and filling in the gaps looking to get their needs met.

 

Brilliant and so very true.

 

I think MM who cheat do so not because they genuinely want out of their M at all. They do it because theyre not getting sex, understanding, companionship, support, passion, laughter - whatever. Their M is missing some very key elements, and in order to make the M he never plans on leaving tolerable on a daily basis, he finds an OW that provides what his W and M lack. Now he has a perfectly happy life. He fulfills his obligation to stay with his M, and still gets all his needs met. Even if it takes two people to do it.

[Confused4Now]

Brilliant and so very true.

 

I think MM who cheat do so not because they genuinely want out of their M at all. They do it because theyre not getting sex, understanding, companionship, support, passion, laughter - whatever. Their M is missing some very key elements, and in order to make the M he never plans on leaving tolerable on a daily basis, he finds an OW that provides what his W and M lack. Now he has a perfectly happy life. He fulfills his obligation to stay with his M, and still gets all his needs met. Even if it takes two people to do it.

Well I can say when I was married. I was at a point where I was missing all the things which I was able to find with what my MW gave me. She did fill my needs right up to the point where I wanted to have her 100% in my life. My choice at the time was to stay for the kids....My vision was very small and I didn't look at the BIG picture. I finally made the choice to leave my marriage hoping to find a better life and if my MW came along it would have been the icing on the cake. As Virgo said....it's all about CHOICES....

 

My MW would always play the victim as well as I did when I was in my marriage. I really don't believe in the victim theory anymore. People make choices in life....My MW made her choice to stay in her marriage for whatever reason. I made the choice to get out of my marriage as well as leaving my Affair partner.

[DiDi123]

I think MM who cheat do so not because they genuinely want out of their M at all. "They do it because theyre not getting sex, understanding, companionship, support, passion, laughter - whatever. Their M is missing some very key elements, and in order to make the M he never plans on leaving tolerable on a daily basis, he finds an OW that provides what his W and M lack. Now he has a perfectly happy life. He fulfills his obligation to stay with his M, and still gets all his needs met. Even if it takes two people to do it."

 

I have a gut feeling this is what's going on in my situation with my MM. Question for me is do I try and be patient a few more months to see if he acts on the "Something has to happen because I hate living like this" line......

 

I just am not sure if he feels "perfectly" happy but I do think I fill the void and somehow makes his life (in his marriage) tolerable to some degree. Which of course is not fair to me. And something I am learning about more and more. Putting me first.....what a concept- too bad its taken me 43 years to learn that. But at least I am doing that now. I can't change the past and have to keep pushing forward.