Hanging out here for virtual support

[LavendarGirl]

Hi Guys,

Just wanted to say hi, I am hanging out here on OM/OW section reading stories & maintaining a bit of strength by reading everyone's similar experiences. I last logged on in October...

 

My MM has been an on again/off again A for several years. We got back together this summer with the understanding that we're going to make it work this time...I'd separated from my xH and he was supposedly ready to make the split with the W. He's in Iraq with the military, his W is in the states, but right now they are in Europe together on his 2 week leave/vacation. He'd promised me a few weeks ago (at the time of my last posting) that he'd have -the talk- with her in December. But a few days prior to him leaving for Europe, he started backpeddling. It was the dreaded oh-I-can't-ruin-her-Christmas sort of thing. And then (even worse for me) he says that they seem to be getting along better on the phone...which I don't know what that's supposed to be, other than sure sign of waffling (that he would bring it up like a counterpoint). Originally he was planning on keeping in communication with me while in Europe, with the (I guess) assumption that the two of them would be at the beginning of the end, and that they would be doing their own thing at some part of the day.

 

However, he's been in Europe with her for almost a week now, and I've heard from him once, in the form of a 3 line email that said he loved me and that he was being monitored by the W so he can't talk more.

 

I replied with a cease/desist letter. I can't continue on like this, he's going to have to decide whether to salvage the marriage, or get a divorce. But I don't want communication until he's got a divorce underway. And I define that point as my being able to call him on a cell phone at any time of the day, and there's no worry that the W will hear the phone ring because she's out of the picture. And being in Iraq conveniently out of her eyesight doesn't count!

 

So, I feel oddly relieved at my action. I had been spending the better part of the last 3 days either crying or trying to be mindful of my emotions. And every fiber of my being was telling me that he's stringing me along. And if he's not stringing me along, well then, he can make his marital status change and then pursue me like a normal dating relationship.

 

But I'm tired of being THAT GIRL, the one who's willing to take scraps. And I don't like being used as some sort of surrogate for what's wrong with his marriage. The killer for me was his being concerned for his W's Christmas. He didn't ask and I didn't tell, but my kids are going to be at their dad's on Christmas Day, and without having extended family nearby, I plan on spending Christmas Day at the movie theater by myself. Not my idea of romantic.

 

Well, thanks for listening, guys. Again, I really do appreciate the forum here, reading through old posts gives me the resolve I need to get through this.

 

Warmest regards,

LG

[frannie]

... every fiber of my being was telling me that he's stringing me along. And if he's not stringing me along, well then, he can make his marital status change and then pursue me like a normal dating relationship.

 

Hello. I think this is very wise. I know its not easy. But it is very wise.

[LavendarGirl]

I will be strong...I will be strong...I will be strong. Okay, have I convinced myself yet? Thanks Frannie for the support.

[LakesideDream]

Lavander, I hear the pain in your post. It sounds like you are doing what's best for you. It's hard to be alone at the holidays. I know, I've had a bit of practice. "The season" can't pass quickly enough for me.

 

Good luck to you, and have as nice a holiday as you can.

[CAMAYPARK]

Hang on in there, LG. Try your best to have a good Christmas.

[LavendarGirl]

Thank you LD and CP for your kind words of support. I haven't received any response from MM regarding my email, either he hasn't checked his emails or can't respond because W is with him, or is choosing not to respond. Either way, he's made himself inaccessible, which is my very point. So, I'm doing the right thing, but it kills me inside.

 

LG

[SierraRose]

Hang in there...it won't be easy! You are making a smart decision. IF you get the urge to break NC, come to us instead!

[LavendarGirl]

Well, he replied to the email begging for me to reconsider and not to give up on us. I replied back maintaining my position. My heart is still pounding, but I'm at least standing firm on my decision. Ugh.

[frannie]

Well, he replied to the email begging for me to reconsider and not to give up on us. I replied back maintaining my position. My heart is still pounding, but I'm at least standing firm on my decision. Ugh.

 

Well done, LG. It's no use him begging you to reconsider... he has to take some steps, doesn't he? I suppose the trouble you are having is with him stationed abroad/living apart from her it's going to be hard to verify if he does make a move..?

[LavendarGirl]

Yes, exactly, Frannie. He's due to be back in the States in April, and if he's still living the M life, he'll be under the same roof. I have to assume that it won't be until he gets back that the S or D gets going, but once he's back it's easy to tell that he's with his W. Because she monitors every thing about him, he wouldn't be able to take phone calls or a visit without my knowing he's being sneaky.

 

But until then I would imagine he's still very much married.

[LavendarGirl]

Okay, he emailed me again saying he wish I were more supportive, that he can't figure out how to do this, that he wishes there was a better solution (that's my favorite-ha!), etc.

 

I emailed back saying he needs to decide to either stay in his marriage and maintain status quo, stay in his marriage and fix the problems, or leave the marriage and pursue a relationship with me. I told him it's not for me to decide from his three choices, but by not making a decision he's in effect making a decision (to continue in a marriage and not fix the problems).

 

I thought I was pretty clear in my email, didn't give any idea whatsoever that I was interested in pursuing an A while he was still married. I told him that my being in the picture at this point is a prop for his marriage, and without me around he will get a better idea of the gaps in his marriage that need fixing (the sexual/intimacy aspects).

 

Okay, I am so new at all of this. Did I do okay? Or was this enabling OW behavior? Because it felt right, I just don't know though, because it wasn't NC.

[frannie]

Okay, he emailed me again saying he wish I were more supportive, that he can't figure out how to do this, that he wishes there was a better solution (that's my favorite-ha!), etc.

 

I emailed back saying he needs to decide to either stay in his marriage and maintain status quo, stay in his marriage and fix the problems, or leave the marriage and pursue a relationship with me. I told him it's not for me to decide from his three choices, but by not making a decision he's in effect making a decision (to continue in a marriage and not fix the problems).

 

I thought I was pretty clear in my email, didn't give any idea whatsoever that I was interested in pursuing an A while he was still married. I told him that my being in the picture at this point is a prop for his marriage, and without me around he will get a better idea of the gaps in his marriage that need fixing (the sexual/intimacy aspects).

 

Okay, I am so new at all of this. Did I do okay? Or was this enabling OW behavior? Because it felt right, I just don't know though, because it wasn't NC.

 

I think you did really well.

 

He has essentially back-pedalled from his initial talk about leaving this time and 'doing it right'. I personally think that at this stage, after years of the affair, that he can't expect you to be supportive UNLESS he's actually decided to leave. And he sounds like he's saying he's wavering on that (again?).

 

I don't know how you can settle anything in emails, however.

 

I do think there's an argument for keeping up contact and support if the MM is working through leaving. It's not for everyone, neither from the MM's side or the OW's side. A lot of MM in Infidelity (forum) are happy to work through things without their OW in the picture. But not everyone is like that. The thing is... how do you know they're just keeping you hanging... or are they really sincere?

 

What exactly is he saying?

[LavendarGirl]

Hi Frannie,

Thank you for taking the time to help me figure this out. Okay, a little back history. He's been saying for months now (4 months +) that he and W are both unhappy but that whenever he tries to bring things up in phone conversation with her, she cuts him off and says that they have a lot to discuss about their R, but it could all wait until they saw each other in person in Dec. I would tell him, whether he wanted to fix his M or leave it, he couldn't let problems fester for months. But my persuading him to talk to her over their problems didn't seem to change anything. I began to see some backpeddling beginning in October. First was his reluctance to talk about anything in the future beyond our seeing each other in April. When I pressed that issue, he'd later come up with a possible clever get together in a later month, where it was obvious that he was sneaking around behind the W's back. I pressed that, saying just how long is it going to take to be physically separated from the W, after all there are no kids, it would be a simple matter of two households, even if the D was pending.

 

Then most recently, prior to him leaving Iraq to see her on his leave in Europe, there was a lot of backpeddling. First was the comment that they were getting along better on the phone. Then several times he'd tell me I needed to be patient for him. Patient for what? The understanding that I had was that in Europe he'd talk to her, and they'd be together but with his wishes for a D expressed, and that he would be spending some of the day on his own, and he'd email every day and occasionally call me on a rented cell phone as he could.

 

Well, the cell phone never happened. I didn't hear from him for three days, and then the 3rd day I get a two sentence email, basically that he loves me and he can't say more because he's being monitored.

 

The next morning (Wed) is when I wrote him a letter saying I can't do this anymore. From then, he emailed me Thurs and then on Sat, very short emails. It's more what he's not saying...I'm telling him I'm giving up, and he's not making the time to try to call, or write a longer email. There's no fight in him, essentially.

 

But what he's saying is...

 

That this is a lot to digest, that obviously I've given this considerable thought and attention, that I have some good points, that he loves me and won't stop loving me, and I shouldn't toss in the towel. That what he needs from me now is my support. That none of this is as easy and tidy as I imply, and that he wishes there were another solution. That he can't figure out how and when to do this. And then some begging and I love you's as well.

 

That's basically it.

 

I'm just completely seeing him want to maintain status quo because he's too chicken to be the bad guy to his W. I know he loves me. But I can't assume that everything he's said about his R with his W is accurate, and things might not be as bad as he describes.

 

But it's just killing me. I'm seeing this A stretch out for as long as I let it, and I just can't.

 

--LG.

[daisydufas22]

OMG...do NOT let this guy treat you like this....actions speak louder than words.

 

Can you ignore him? If you want my honest opinion this guy is SELFISH!

 

Leave before he destroys ALL your self esteem.

 

He said, 'none of this is as easy or tidy as [you] imply'. Well. my repsonse is that it MUST be easier for him to have an affair. If that's the case then he is SELFISH for stringing two people along and playing with their hearts! Nothing is easy in life......what's he going on about? Additionally, how dare he put the blame on you, saying YOU imply......why doesn't he take any responsibility? LET HIM GO - ignore him.

 

You wouldn't honestly want to be with a guy like this, would you? Imagine you were his wife and he was having an affair and too chicken to tell you he wanted to leave? I know, you say (or you might) that you are different than his wife but (honestly) if he treats her like that he will probably treat you the same way!!!

 

My advice: go out on dates, get some self esteem back and IGNORE him!

[frannie]

LG, reading your more detailed description of what he's saying and doing, I have to agree with DD and your view on it. He really is just trying to string you along and see what you'll take.

 

But you've already shown him, and told him, that's not good enough. I think all you can do is keep telling him what you've been saying. You're doing a great job. You can't let him talk you into 'supporting' him... supporting him in what, endless cheating..??

[LavendarGirl]

Hi Frannie and DD,

Yeah, I agree 100% with both of you, he's stringing me along. He knows from previous years I've been willing to overlook his M while in an A with him, he's thinking that I'll make this easy for him so he can continue as a cakeeater.

 

DD, my self esteem was plummeting earlier in the week before I wrote him THE letter. I had that inner voice telling me I wasn't pretty enough, or needed to lose weight, or wondering what she (the W) had that I don't have. And that's not normal for me, I'm usually pretty comfortable with who I am. I recognized it for what it was, which really prompted the letter writing and taking a stand. I feel right in taking the stand that I did, but it crushes me inside too. I know it's right, it just doesn't feel good.

 

Frannie, you mentioned a couple of posts ago that it will be hard to know if he's really initiating an S or D while he's overseas. And I agree. That's why I decided that no matter what he says now, I don't want to consider resuming things with him until he gets back to the states and he's either under the same roof with his W or he's not.

 

And let me say, this forum has been INVALUABLE to me.

 

--LG.

[daisydufas22]

 

DD, my self esteem was plummeting earlier in the week before I wrote him THE letter. I had that inner voice telling me I wasn't pretty enough, or needed to lose weight, or wondering what she (the W) had that I don't have. And that's not normal for me, I'm usually pretty comfortable with who I am. I recognized it for what it was, which really prompted the letter writing and taking a stand. I feel right in taking the stand that I did, but it crushes me inside too. I know it's right, it just doesn't feel good.

 

 

Do not compare yourself!!!!

[Sandy223]

LG I am so sorry you are going through this ... so thank you again for responding to my post about a stupid x-mas present ... we all know there is more to it than that ...

 

Like you ... my biggest dread was being THAT girl .. the one who enables him to stay in his marraige, have his cake and eat it to ... etc...

 

So, like you - I have been on/off again .. well, we weren't really on after we first met because I wouldn't be with him and made him pursue me ... well, didn't make him, but clearly he couldn't get me out of his head for whatever reason ..

 

so, like you - i have put my foot down the entire time, and kept him on his toes ... have been happy and bubbly and enjoyed being with him, but the second I sensed he got too comfortable, I would pull the rug out a bit ...

 

.. and now, it is x-mas and I too am alone ... I will be with my family, but there is no man in my life ..

 

... I keep doing everything to keep him on his toes and never become that girl ... I hear you on that one ... I do keep pushing him back, and he does keep moving forward after a drop off a bit ... don't nag or complain, but am just not there for him all the time ... never chase, never call .. etc...

 

... i kept saying to myself this was the right way to handle it ... and as he fell more and more in love he would come foward on his own because I always kept up the chase ...

 

... and now .. .now I am thinking that this is all BS ... and that whatever will be will be ... I am back now to letting go and letting things happen the way they are supposed to ....

 

I know it's hard ... i feel your pain ... but please hang in there!! This holiday is almost over!!!! Thank Goodness!! I frankly don't know how much of it I can stand either!!!

[LavendarGirl]

Well, he just called. He let me vent, I repeated everything I had to him in emails, that I thought I could be stronger, but I can't. And I am unable to continue on as his A while he sits on the fence over what to do about his M. And I'm going to be strong on that, and NOT see him or continue talking to him like we're a couple, because I'm just perpetuating the problem. That it's ripping my heart out that he can't or won't choose me. And that while he's trying to figure out a way to do all of this and not hurt anyone, it's too late for that. Because I've been sitting here for days crying my eyes out and trying to come to terms with the situation I find myself.

 

He said that he fully intends to leave his M, but the timing isn't right. I told him, there's never a good time, but he has to have THE TALK with her, and he can't expect me to be his OW while he's undecided. He asked if I would agree to meet with him face to face when he comes home, but I told him no because I don't trust myself with him, and I don't want to give in to this decision I've made because I feel very strongly about not wanting to be involved with him until he leaves his M.

 

He says he understands, and that he was asking too much from me, to be patient or supportive while he goes through this process. He acknoweldged that its HIS situation/problem to take care of and not mine, and that he will (leave his W). He said he understood if I am resentful and angry because he's hurt me on a level he didn't anticipate, and asked me to just not close my heart to him. I said that I would agree to not close my heart to him, but that it wouldn't be forever. And he agreed that was reasonable.

 

So I guess that's that, and I just need to wait this out over the next few months and see if he does indeed leave her. So, um, I guess that makes me a long term forum member, huh!

 

I do feel better, just in that I could talk to him (and not cryptic email responses), and that I didn't give in and say everything would be okay, but kept to my terms. Phew.

 

--LG

[LavendarGirl]

Hey Sandy,

Reading your post... these MM do keep US on our toes! I hear ya on thinking it's all BS, and whatever will be will be. In the end, these MM's have to make up THEIR mind (and act on it), it's not for us to do that for them.

 

I do feel sometimes like I'm the prop that keeps their faltering marriage going, that without me around he'd notice how lonely, sad and unfulfilling his M has become. We went NC (my doing) for 2 years, it was him coming back and saying he couldn't live without me and he wanted us to be together, he couldn't stand it any more. Prior to the NC 2 years ago, leaving our spouses wasn't anything we'd even discussed. I was in the process of my separation when MM contacted me this summer to "do this right".

 

It is very frustrating that he didn't think of it THEN, about putting a plan in motion to leave his M. In retrospect I should have insisted from the start, but then again, I was not sure until maybe two months into our reconnection/communications that I wanted to get back together with him. Just because there's been so much waffling really, over the years between the two of us.

 

I'll be glad when Christmas is over, I'm just going through the motions but soooo not in the mood for it.

[mytruelove]

i just got the chance to read through your post.

 

what i've found from my own experience is that being supportive and understanding really isn't the way to go. it's when i've been tough that i've seemed to make some headway.

 

i really think your doing great and handling this just right. sounds like your balancing it perfectly and your recognizing when you need a break for yourself and your own self-esteem and sanity. we have to take care of ourselves.

 

so, he won't be home until April, so you know things aren't likely to be any different until then. soo, i say take this time until April to focus on yourself and being the best person you can be and try not to worry or stress about it until then. allow yourself that break.

 

i do think being in the military adds an increased difficultly. i've known some service men and i found (at least in the one's that i knew - i really don't want to stereotype because there are a lot of service men who don't have affairs) affairs to be common i think because it provides the envirornment for them.

 

just hold on to your heart and guard yourself hon!!!

[LavendarGirl]

I'm from a military family (brother, dad, grandad, greatgrandad, uncles, etc), and grew up in a military town. Also, my first xH was military. I wouldn't say that military men/women are necessarily more prone to cheating, though the long geographical separations can spell doom to many R's. I don't think that I can consider myself an A of convenience by any stretch of the imagination. Honestly, this all started when we were much younger, 25 years ago, and when things got complicated I broke up with him. What can I say, I was so young and not savvy to what is fixable and not fixable. I have to hand it to him, he carried the torch at times when I ran the other way. Years of being friends and not knowing how the other one felt (we discussed this much later), and might I add while being friends, supporting the other through life's challenges. The tables got turned maybe in the last 4 years where perhaps I've made myself more available to him, and his M has resulted in him being less available. Not trying to imply that we're all that much different from other OW/MM scenarios (and reading through LakeSideDreamer's 43 page thread, I see we're not a unique scenario at all), but I don't get the impression, after all these years, that I'm a casual A.

 

I think my MM is confused and feeling guilty, and whether on purpose or inadvertently, is stringing me and his W along because he can't get off the dang fence (which has GOT to be an uncomfortable place to sit, wouldn't you think). I decided to go for bust yesterday, in effect being totally honest and not trying to be the tough girl I play (unconvincingly) at times. So, after I told him I can't be patient, can't be supportive, any longer, because the whole thing's killing me...and I don't care what I promised before, I just don't have the strength any longer. I just blurted out, look I've been crying my eyes out for days about this, I've had to take Excedrin PM at night just to be able to sleep, I can't function this way. And I added, if he was trying to do all of this without hurting anyone, it's TOO LATE. Well, he softened up considerably, I think he finally GOT IT. I'd just rather be honest (because I'm not the kind of girl to tell a guy I was shedding any tears over him).

 

But...MTL...yes, I do fully plan on focusing on myself now till April...I don't know that I'd have my heart into dating anyone at this point, but certainly finding some friends who'd like to go out and hang out with in general. I can't sit around the house like a kept woman, I realize that. So that's really what I need to do, just will start in on it right after Christmas gets to go back in the box and back in the attic...to focus on myself.

 

Thanks for your support!!

 

--LG

[mytruelove]

the more i read of your phone conversation - i'd say you kicked butt!!!

 

it's got to be a relief to have got that off your chest.

 

good going putting a voice to your feelings. we bottle them soo much in these situations as to not push, but OUR NEEDS ARE IMPORTANT ALSO...WE are important also and our feelings matter!!!

[frannie]

LG, it's hard to know what to do. You can't let them get away with it, yet NC is hard on you and does it get them to make any progress? Sometimes. But I believe it's only when they're ready anyway that NC brings them to change... anything else would be emotional manipulation, and who wants a man who bows to that?

 

All I've found helps is having the attitude that their M will or won't end on a completely different timescale to how and when I want or need him. You can't dictate, you can only do what is right for you. He can't end a M to suit you... yet he wants to be 'free'. Yet you 'devalue' yourself every day you 'wait'...

 

All very difficult. I've been in and out of contact with my MM now for over 4 and a half years. I've just done different things at different times. I long ago gave up the idea that there was a 'solution'... there are just ways of getting through the time til things do or don't change.

[LavendarGirl]

I don't know Frannie, that's just it. This whole thing kills me. At the end of the day, I still feel..

• Rejected
  
• Betrayed
  
• Completely P***'d off at him for misleading me
  

I recognize that any sort of major decision and action is HIS, not mine, to take.

 

I sort of want to go NC because I just don't want to lash out like a hurt animal right now, which is what I'm feeling, and I don't know that will solve anything. Maybe in a month or something I can go very limited LC (the occasional hi what's up email or phone call). But I can most definitely NOT trust myself seeing him in person in April or afterwards, for that matter, without giving in and making things a PA again.