Good ways things have changed since the A

[Joie]

What are some good things that have changed since the A?

 

For us...sex. We have way more and it is way better. Also in the morning before we wake up we cuddle next to each other. A much better way to wake up. During the A we woke up mad at each other. Time as a family. H is a much better sport about doing things as a family. He is actually excited for our family vacation. During the A he made it seem like family time was a punishment.

 

Anyone else have some positives?

[Mrs. John Adams]

We never let a day go by that we don't say i love you. We are very attentive to each others feelings....

We never take each other for granted.

[heartwhole]

I wouldn't say "things have changed" because that sounds passive to me. I would say that we have changed things as we move forward to be healthier people in a better relationship.

 

We got off track largely due to how we handled my developing a chronic illness. I had difficulty accepting my limitations and put enormous pressure on myself to be magically healed. WH is not a caretaker type; my independence is what attracted him to me. So we both believed on some level that the illness and the way it impacted our lives was my fault.

 

And so the biggest change has been for both of us to accept that I have limitations. WH has worked hard to develop empathy and to respond helpfully when I am ill. We're a lot more connected and loving. It's much easier for me to be loving to someone who is considerate and supportive of me, and it's much easier for him to be loving when I am in a good place . . . virtuous cycle. Of course there's more and better sex, more and better communication, etc as a result, but I think it started with both of us working on ourselves and coming together as a team. It's so easy for things to get off the rails with resentment and selfishness, so it's important to remain connected and give each other the benefit of the doubt.

 

I've also worked hard to find my voice and put myself first. That was part of the A dynamic -- I felt so guilty about messing up my family's life that I gave what little energy I had to everyone else. Instead of seeing that, WH just saw how little I gave, so he took more and more for himself. We've worked hard to negotiate a balance that works for both of us, though of course adjustments will always be necessary. Meeting in the middle is important.

 

One thing I've been wary of is halfhearted or temporary change on his part just to "make up for" the affair. I want us to grow and change permanently. That includes me too. I don't want to be loving or giving because I'm afraid he'll cheat if I'm not. I don't want him to be loving or giving because he's trying to make up for cheating. I want us to be loving and giving because we have created a safe and harmonious relationship and it keeps feeding itself and getting better and better.

[understand50]

In every bad thing in life, there is a silver lining, but to get to it, far too much pain must be given for it.

 

Your go bankrupt, and lose your house, and also your debts.

 

Your Parents pass, and you inherit some money.

 

One partner cheats, and now you are "talking", or you really understand and appreciate each other.

 

For me, I do not know if my G/F had not cheated if she would have realized, and seen the true depth of my love, but having the pain, does not really make it easier or wish that it did not happen. Her over spending, and us almost divorcing and going bankrupt, certainly got us talking and working on our marriage, but, there is that large payment to debt each month.

 

So yes, there are "some" good things that can happen after cheating, but it is only because each has to look at the marriage, at themselves, and decide if they want to reconcile, and all the "good" comes from the hard work to do so. Looking back, it would have been so easy to find the "good" without the pain, and anyone who is going to cheat, to wake up a spouse, or fix the marriage, is gambling that the other partner loves them enough to give them a second chance, is also able to do so. The odds, are too long for me.

 

Now if cheating has happened, I think looking for any good, is one way for moving the healing along. Trying to find the positive, can be helpful in the dark days after D-Day. This is one way to move along reconciliation, but the BS and the WS should never justify the act of cheating with "See, everything is now better" Enjoy, whatever good can come out of cheating, please just acknowledge the price you and your "loved" one have to pay for the rest of your life's.

 

My two cents.......

[JohnAdams]

We have had a wonderful life post affair. We are more in love than ever. We do not take each other for granted. We raised two beautiful children. We have traveled the world. We genuinely have fun together.

 

 

Having said all that, I cannot help but believe it would have been even better with no affair to taint our lives.

[DKT3]

Our relationship is much better since. I believe in order to truly come back from an affair the couple has to address all the issues not just the affair. If you are successful in doing so the net result has to be a better marriage.

 

For us iit been about my wife not feeling the pressure of being perfect. She felt this pressure because she felt my expectations of her were to high and for a couple decades she worked hard to live up to them. I never realized I was putting pressure on her, I so it as compliments. My wife is great, my wife is the perfect mother, my wife would never allow that to happen, my wife would have handled that much better, my wife had no problem do this and that. While it felt to me I was raining down praise it was simply pressure for her to live up to this idea of super perfect that I saw her as. Now I see her as the beautiful but flawed near perfect woman she is.

[Lobe]

Reconciling after an A is bittersweet. It's a bit like asking a photographer if they're grateful they can still hear after losing their eyesight. Or asking someone if they're glad they recovered their granny's wedding rings from the ashes of their home.

 

The very things that were problematic in our marriage before WH went roving abroad are the very things we struggle with now. Before the A, we didn't talk about those issues. Since the A, we talk about those issues. Is that an improvement? I suppose if you can overlook the "taint" of the affair it's an improvement. A lot of the "things are so much better" attitude that happens post-affair is deeply embedded in our need to find a way to rise above the pain.

 

For us, the affair was like breaking a bone. Sure, the intense pain and agony have passed, the fracture is set and healed, and we conscientiously take better care of ourselves now, but the dull arthritic ache of infidelity is something we will bear for the rest of our lives.

[cocorico]

What are some good things that have changed since the A?

 

For us...sex. We have way more and it is way better. Also in the morning before we wake up we cuddle next to each other. A much better way to wake up. During the A we woke up mad at each other. Time as a family. H is a much better sport about doing things as a family. He is actually excited for our family vacation. During the A he made it seem like family time was a punishment.

 

Anyone else have some positives?

 

We can be together all the time

[drifter777]

Ten characters

[Liam1]

What are some good things that have changed since the A?

 

For us...sex. We have way more and it is way better. Also in the morning before we wake up we cuddle next to each other. A much better way to wake up. During the A we woke up mad at each other. Time as a family. H is a much better sport about doing things as a family. He is actually excited for our family vacation. During the A he made it seem like family time was a punishment.

 

Anyone else have some positives?

 

Joie:

 

My wife has made similar comments to me since my affair.

 

Many things in our marriage have improved vastly.

 

Nothing else worked until I had my affair. She just was not open to real communication.

 

She would listen to my complaints about lack of sex and she would just laugh it off and continually refuse counseling.

 

Throwing a bomb into my marriage, by having an affair was a wake up call.

 

It was a wake up call to both of us. We now both appreciate each other more and truly realize we do not want to lose each other.

 

I do not think we would have gotten to this point, without me having an affair.

 

Many things have improved, including that we both actually cherish our time together. No more separate vacations of GNOs or BNOs. We spend far more time doing this together and that is bonding us tighter.

 

Before my affair, no matter how much I tried to communicate my need for some intimacy, she simply was not open to resolving the problem.

 

My wife has a low sex drive and mine is high.

 

We still compromise by having sex less often than I would like, but when we do have sex, it's quality sex.

 

My affair partner was really hot for sex, all the time, but it was not as good as the sex I now have with my wife.

 

I agree, too, with the poster that said that the affair is not the only thing that should be dealt with.

 

IMO, some people who have failed reconciliations put too much emphasis on the affair and too much onus on the person who had the affair.

 

Both people need to own their stuff.

[ladydesigner]

Well since you didn't say M per say...

 

The good ways things have changed since my WH's A is that I am taking care of myself now, I have improved my coping skills, I am learning to set firm boundaries, I do not fear D anymore, and I don't feel like I need to be M'd to be happy.

[TrustedthenBusted]

All I can really say is now we "know" each other better. We know eachother better because a big veil of secrecy has been yanked back, and we've been through some tremendous adversity together.

 

That is the "good" way.

 

The bad, of course, is that if anything like this ever happened again, I am pretty sure she would be completely dead to me.

[Joie]

Joie:

 

My wife has made similar comments to me since my affair.

 

Many things in our marriage have improved vastly.

 

Nothing else worked until I had my affair. She just was not open to real communication.

 

She would listen to my complaints about lack of sex and she would just laugh it off and continually refuse counseling.

 

Throwing a bomb into my marriage, by having an affair was a wake up call.

 

It was a wake up call to both of us. We now both appreciate each other more and truly realize we do not want to lose each other.

 

I do not think we would have gotten to this point, without me having an affair.

 

Many things have improved, including that we both actually cherish our time together. No more separate vacations of GNOs or BNOs. We spend far more time doing this together and that is bonding us tighter.

 

Before my affair, no matter how much I tried to communicate my need for some intimacy, she simply was not open to resolving the problem.

 

My wife has a low sex drive and mine is high.

 

We still compromise by having sex less often than I would like, but when we do have sex, it's quality sex.

 

My affair partner was really hot for sex, all the time, but it was not as good as the sex I now have with my wife.

 

I agree, too, with the poster that said that the affair is not the only thing that should be dealt with.

 

IMO, some people who have failed reconciliations put too much emphasis on the affair and too much onus on the person who had the affair.

 

Both people need to own their stuff.

 

I understand your point. (Don't get me wrong. I still don't think it is an excuse to have an affair.) However, realistically my husband wasn't communicate his needs, though he thought he was. I am a big enough person to realize that even if he flat out said "I need this..." I don't know if I would've listen. I like to think I would but I was too wrapped up in my own things. The same was true for me communicating my needs to him.

 

I would give anything for the two of us to appreciate each other and really communicate our needs without the affair. But we can't go back in time. So I am going to take my silver lining and hold on tight.

[JohnAdams]

I understand your point. (Don't get me wrong. I still don't think it is an excuse to have an affair.) However, realistically my husband wasn't communicate his needs, though he thought he was. I am a big enough person to realize that even if he flat out said "I need this..." I don't know if I would've listen. I like to think I would but I was too wrapped up in my own things. The same was true for me communicating my needs to him.

 

I would give anything for the two of us to appreciate each other and really communicate our needs without the affair. But we can't go back in time. So I am going to take my silver lining and hold on tight.

 

While I understand what you are saying, I think the "you are not meeting my needs" is the biggest cop out a WS says. What in the world does this mean? It is nothing more than an excuse to have an affair. If you do not meet my needs, obliviously I am entitled to an affair. So does the WS affair partner meet the WS's needs? IF so, are you suppose to replicate what they do? If you are not good enough for your spouse, your spouse has a problem not you!

[understand50]

While I understand what you are saying, I think the "you are not meeting my needs" is the biggest cop out a WS says. What in the world does this mean? It is nothing more than an excuse to have an affair. If you do not meet my needs, obliviously I am entitled to an affair. So does the WS affair partner meet the WS's needs? IF so, are you suppose to replicate what they do? If you are not good enough for your spouse, your spouse has a problem not you!

 

Again, not getting what you want in a marriage, is no excuse for cheating.

 

Not getting what you think you are worth from a job does not give you leave to steal.

 

No amount of "good" that comes out of infidelity, can make up for the life time of pain and hurt. Maybe you are one of thoses, who just cannot or does not believe in being faithful. Good for you. I would guess that most people do believe in being faithful and hurt when they slip, or hurt when they are betrayed.

 

Things get better, because you both work to make it so, not because one partner cheated. Reconciliation is hard work, as is marriage, but it is much better to work at marriage, then have to take out all the stops to save it after infidelity. If reconciliation works, if you stay together and discover why you fell in love in the first place, yes it can be better, but would it not be even better if you had worked to love and cherish each other in the first place?

 

This is normal, you appreciate what you have more, when you almost lose it or in the case of divorce, lose it all together. Do not confuse what happens with things getting better, of better then before. You could have had this all the time, without the hurt and pain. That is the sadness.

 

My two cents.........

[Joie]

While I understand what you are saying, I think the "you are not meeting my needs" is the biggest cop out a WS says. What in the world does this mean? It is nothing more than an excuse to have an affair. If you do not meet my needs, obliviously I am entitled to an affair. So does the WS affair partner meet the WS's needs? IF so, are you suppose to replicate what they do? If you are not good enough for your spouse, your spouse has a problem not you!

 

I don't think "you are not meeting my needs" is always a cop out. I wasn't meeting his needs and he was not meeting mine. That is absolutely no excuse for an affair. He was not meeting my needs nor was he meeting the needs of our family and I didn't run out and have an affair. I agree that he consciously made a selfish, bad and cruel decision. It is not a decision I would've made. I can also understand how it happened. For us, in our marriage, his affair was a symptom. That symptom caused unbelievable pain but it did alert us to the underlying problems in our relationship. He was not entitled to an affair. Yes, the affair was his problem. But, because of the affair I am not going to ignore the underlying problems that were there prior to the affair.

[Mr Blunt]

Quote By Joie

Good ways things have changed since the A

 

 

 

 

The A shook me up bigtime and it propelled me to improve myself in many ways. In the first few months I bought into the crap that I was the reason that she chose to do the betrayal but I came to the truth quickly after that

She chose the A mostly because she was weak and selfish and I had little to do with it.

 

 

The good ways that changed was that I got even closer to my family and strengthened my faith.

I was strengthened by the fact that I forgave and that gave me a lot more self-esteem and I knew that I finally did something that pleased God.

In addition, my children had good respect for me but after my years of proven forgiveness my children now have GREAT respect and love for me.

[Liam1]

But, because of the affair I am not going to ignore the underlying problems that were there prior to the affair.

 

That is a good thing, Joie

 

And, the fact that you are willing to acknowledge underlying problems will likely ensure a continued good reconciliation.

 

You were not meeting his needs and he was not meeting yours.

 

However, in order to know if the decision to have an affair was a selfish cruel bad decision, I think people would have to know in what way you were failing to meet his needs.

 

When you are willing to acknowledge that perhaps the ways that you failed to meet his needs were cruel and selfish and bad, that is when you will finally be able to heal.

 

Failing to acknowledge one's own cruel bad and hurtful acts, is also selfish, by any basic psychological standard. Insisting the other person is cruel and hurtful selfish, while you never are, is not productive to recovery.

 

It is also somewhat immature, IMO in that it is a very conditional form of reconciliation.

 

For example, it may seem as if you are saying, I will reconcile, but only if you admit to the fact that you were selfish and I am perfect.

 

Of course perhaps you were not failing to meet his needs in a selfish and cruel way.

 

Just something to chew on.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Liam1

[ladydesigner]

That is a good thing, Joie

 

And, the fact that you are willing to acknowledge underlying problems will likely ensure a continued good reconciliation.

 

You were not meeting his needs and he was not meeting yours.

 

However, in order to know if the decision to have an affair was a selfish cruel bad decision, I think people would have to know in what way you were failing to meet his needs.

 

When you are willing to acknowledge that perhaps the ways that you failed to meet his needs were cruel and selfish and bad, that is when you will finally be able to heal.

 

Failing to acknowledge one's own cruel bad and hurtful acts, is also selfish, by any basic psychological standard. Insisting the other person is cruel and hurtful selfish, while you never are, is not productive to recovery.

 

It is also somewhat immature, IMO in that it is a very conditional form of reconciliation.

 

For example, it may seem as if you are saying, I will reconcile, but only if you admit to the fact that you were selfish and I am perfect.

 

Of course perhaps you were not failing to meet his needs in a selfish and cruel way.

 

Just something to chew on.

 

Um an A is always a selfish and cruel decision.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Um an A is always a selfish and cruel decision.

 

Are you sure? Because there are those here that believe affairs save marriages!

I can't quite get my head around how having sex with someone other than my spouse regardless of the reason I may conjure up..will save my relationship.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion... And you can find books and statistics to back up most sny idea you may have.

 

But in my world.. In my 61 years... I have never met anyone that has had infidelity in their relationship who will jump on the bandwagon that it saved their marriage.

 

Quite the opposite in fact. Most people I know affected by infidelity have divorced.

 

I know the reasons that surrounded my mindset during the time of my affair... And I have worked on those things to make me a better person to make sure I do not became the person I allowed myself to become during that time. Regardless of issues we both may have had in our relationship... Cheating was my choice and mine alone. I am responsible for that choice. And that choice almost destroyed a family. Absolutely no good came from it. None.

 

It was a completely selfish decision that caused permanent scars.

[Sub]

Not to get too off-topic, but I believe the thinking is that the A saved them individually, and they in turn saved the M because they didn't necessarily "give up".

 

I think the main point, as someone else said, is that M's can be good in spite of A's, not because of them.

[Mrs. John Adams]

The affair did not save me individually either. It almost destroyed me.

 

And yes marriages can survive in spite of not because of. You would think that affair survivors would be sensitive to the wording they use on a forum filled with recovering people.

[wmacbride]

The affair did not save me individually either. It almost destroyed me.

 

And yes marriages can survive in spite of not because of. You would think that affair survivors would be sensitive to the wording they use on a forum filled with recovering people.

 

Just my humble opinion, but I'm guessing that it almost destroyed you because you are an honest person at heart, and the affair went against who you are.

 

Affairs not only hurt the bs, they hurt the ws as well.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Just my humble opinion, but I'm guessing that it almost destroyed you because you are an honest person at heart, and the affair went against who you are.

 

Affairs not only hurt the bs, they hurt the ws as well.

 

this may not make sense....but I lost ME...I lost who i was...I lost everything I believed in...everything that was important to me. I not only feel like i risked my family....I risked my salvation.

 

For those who are not Christians...this may not make sense. I was raised in a fundamental conservative Christian home. We went to church three times a week. The only activities my parents let me participate in were church activities.

 

John and I met "at church". His father performed our wedding ceremony.

 

I was the church choir director...I taught Sunday school.....

 

I lived CHURCH.

 

I was a very sheltered naive woman. I married at 17 and went from my parents home to my husbands. I never worked outside the home.

 

Going back to school for me was a whole new world....and i was there with kids 10 years my junior. I did not know how to handle it...and i met this man who was a player...and I did not know how to handle him either.

 

I became a person I did not know.

 

So for me to say anything improved for me after the affair is impossible.

 

Good ways things have changed...I hold on to my husband and my family for dear life.....because i almost lost them...I don't take anything for granted...because it could be gone tomorrow.

 

So good things can happen after an affair...but an affair does not make a marriage better.....and it does not make a person better....and my fear when some send the message that an affair can make a marriage better is that there are those who may go into an affair believing it is an acceptable answer...and that in the long run it may help the marriage...and it just isn't the truth.

[heartwhole]

However, in order to know if the decision to have an affair was a selfish cruel bad decision, I think people would have to know in what way you were failing to meet his needs.

 

When you are willing to acknowledge that perhaps the ways that you failed to meet his needs were cruel and selfish and bad, that is when you will finally be able to heal.

 

Failing to acknowledge one's own cruel bad and hurtful acts, is also selfish, by any basic psychological standard. Insisting the other person is cruel and hurtful selfish, while you never are, is not productive to recovery.

 

....

 

Of course perhaps you were not failing to meet his needs in a selfish and cruel way.

 

And if she wasn't failing to meet his needs in a selfish and cruel way, then what? Sometimes you will say things that I find quite reasonable, and you take time to tell OW that you are sorry that they are hurting even when you go on to suggest a dose of your view of reality. But when it comes to BWs, I have never seen you suggest that you are sorry that they are hurting. So I will answer your question.

 

How was I failing to meet my husband's needs? Well, I developed a chronic illness because of a heart valve defect that became severe during my last pregnancy. Some with my condition are wheel-chair bound, but I am lucky that a few hours of rest a day usually does the trick. However, my husband was very disappointed that I no longer joined him on long walks from our house to the museums or shops, so I guess I was failing to meet his needs there.

 

How about sex? Well, I was prescribed an SSRI for my condition, which killed my libido, but nevertheless I initiated sex at the same rate we had always had it. I could not force my body to be more aroused than it was, and WH internalized this as rejection and stopped initiating sex. I am a "virtuous cycle" type of person, so I just kept on trying to make the best of things. Finally I decided I'd had enough, so I weaned off my SSRI, despite being one of those people who experience bad withdrawals.

 

Meanwhile, my husband would go out multiple nights a week and spend most of the weekend on his sports and activities. The one thing he did was wake up with the kids so I could get more sleep as I really do best on at least 9 hours. During the A, he decided this was too much of an inconvenience and started working out at 5:45 a.m. every morning. He did not ask how I felt about this or take notice of how it affected me. I started conking out in the afternoons because I couldn't stay awake (I won't call it a nap as I literally could not stay conscious).

 

When I would have an episode and need to go to the ER for fluids, my husband would look at me with a look of utter disgust, as though I could just regulate my blood pressure if I tried harder. And so on and so forth. I could go on and on. What did I do? I kept giving him the benefit of the doubt, trying to reconnect, reading books, even smelling his armpits to help us bond better. But I could not change my health, and both of us acting like I could just made it worse.

 

On DD, WH exploded with rage at all my failings. He was angry that I didn't wake up with the kids, but instead of telling me, he just started passive aggressively working out so I'd be forced to. He was angry that I didn't ask him about his day, but I was probably groggy from my unintentional naps when he got home. Even 7 months after DD, he was still incredulous that I could believe the affair wasn't at least partly my fault. I may have missed how terribly he was handling my illness but I was never confused on that point. Just by sensing the distance between us, I made changes and efforts, all while the man was cheating on me. I was not unwilling to work on our marriage or be close to him. But I cannot walk three miles out on the town without planning and rest. If that is a deal killer, then fine, but blaming me for something I can't help is, what are the words? Oh yes, cruel and selfish.

 

I believe you were in a sexless marriage and while I don't think anything justifies infidelity, I can understand why your marriage was in trouble. Even at my sickest I made sure to prioritize sex. But for you to time and time again berate BWs without knowing their stories, just because your story went one way, makes it hard to take anything you say seriously. For a person who has been cheated on to use the word "cheater" is so disrespectful that their reconciliation must be false? That's just semantics, and I don't believe you can assess a person's reconciliation based on the selection of word that actually exactly describes what the person did.

 

Do I think I was a perfect wife? Of course not. I have always been open to constructive criticism. Part of the problem was that I too was failing to accept my limitations and be kind to myself. If I had been in a better place, then I think I would have asked about his day or sent loving texts or whatnot. I was definitely exhausted, and I assumed that he knew how much I loved him and that I was giving any extra energy to the kids. That's a common mistake for mothers of young children even without an illness. But no failure to meets needs, even a total lack of sex, justifies an affair. You figure out that your needs aren't being met, discuss it, negotiate a way to make both of you happy, or part ways. You don't say, "Well, she wouldn't walk to the shops with me and she didn't ask about my day so I'm going to fly in my secret girlfriend for a couple of days of sex. Totally justified. [Pats self on back.]"

 

WH has written to me that he realizes how gracious and kind I have been to him regarding the affair. You need to remember that when BWs write on here, they are venting emotions that are natural and reasonable that they may not be flinging at their WHs all the time. I mean, the man acted like I could help being sick. He acted like my sins were egregious when he never addressed them or tried to give me the benefit of the doubt that I was doing my best and harbored him no ill will. And I really truly didn't. The day before DD I was telling my friend who is a therapist that I couldn't see me and WH needing therapy because we communicated well and were happy and connected. The joke was on me! That wasn't his opinion, obviously, but instead of addressing it in a healthy manner he just dug deeper and deeper into an unhealthy escape, breaking some woman's heart for good measure.

 

So, no, it was not my fault. I believe you have confirmation bias when you read BW's writings.