BS Fog

[ladydesigner]

I'm beginning to realize I'm in the fog about my M. Why I ever thought I could save this. I don't understand why I am such a weak person, why I have such problems trying to leave my M.

 

He has basically told me after arguing last night that he feels like he is at his breaking point. Breaking point? He hasn't even done half of the work to make me feel safe. He also told me I haven't done any work towards R. I still can barely wrap my mind the False R I discovered a year ago.

 

i can't stand myself.

[Clay]

People that cheat are so full of themselves. They never look at what it takes to just do the basics on being decent. He is only thinking about himself. There is no doubt you are are caught up in it. Don't blame yourself we all have gone through this. It takes time to really see things for what they are. The best thing you can do now is start making healthy choices. Start planning a future for you that does not include him.

 

C

[minimariah]

you are far from a weak person.

 

it takes INCREDIBLE strength to forgive & stay & try to make it work. so you ARE NOT WEAK. at all.

 

what was the fight about? what had happened? if you don't mind sharing.

[ladydesigner]

We fought about my plans to go see a play with 3 of my girlfriends. He told me that I didn't plan it to include him and that he always plans for US.

 

Well my WH has stayed out of town for conventions, gone to a few parties without me, goes fishing with his friends and I guess he thinks I'm being selfish because I didn't include him. My WH hates plays and I like spending time with my girlfriends.

 

I feel like he is trying to manipulate and control me.

[Clay]

Of course he is going to try to manipulate you. Its how they keep you close so they can keep there stupid games going. I wouldn't talk to him about going anywhere. He made his choice. You have every right to go out and do things for you.

[minimariah]

i'm sorry you're going through this.

i know the feeling, trust me.

 

not sure what to advise you... and please do not feel weak because you can't leave the relationship. leaving isn't easy, especially when you love your partner.

 

did you consider maybe moving out for some time?

just for example, one weekend in a hotel or at a friend's place...? just so you can move away from him and clear your head for a little bit? is that possible?

[BetrayedH]

I'm beginning to realize I'm in the fog about my M. Why I ever thought I could save this. I don't understand why I am such a weak person, why I have such problems trying to leave my M.

 

He has basically told me after arguing last night that he feels like he is at his breaking point. Breaking point? He hasn't even done half of the work to make me feel safe. He also told me I haven't done any work towards R. I still can barely wrap my mind the False R I discovered a year ago.

 

i can't stand myself.

 

It took me a LONG time to decide on divorce. I was a stubborn mo-fo. Even after I discovered the really heinous stuff 8 months into our reconciliation, I was still undecided. For me, I think I was just desperately trying to preserve a nuclear family for my kids. What helped me turn a corner was the realization that my motivation for staying was now ONLY about my kids and that I really no longer had any love for my wife. I suspect that what would help you turn the corner is going to be very unique to you.

 

One thing I can tell you is that once I made the decision to divorce, it was like 10 tons had been lifted off of my shoulders. I was just so relieved to know that the attempt to reconcile was OVER.

 

I have to say that I look forward to that experience for you. It seems like it's just a matter of time. I hope for you that it's sooner rather than later. His "get over it" philiosophy after a false R is utterly ridiculous. He's lucky he doesn't have a kitchen knife in his carotid. (You really shouldn't do that, by the way. Just separate and file instead. Ok?)

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm beginning to realize I'm in the fog about my M. Why I ever thought I could save this. I don't understand why I am such a weak person, why I have such problems trying to leave my M.

 

I'll echo the thoughts of others, it takes strength to stand and fight for what you believe in, marriage included. At the risk of not looking like the smartest guy in the world, I stayed for 3 years post DDay with a WS just as uncooperative and manipulative as yours. I was determined to make it work - until it didn't...

 

Mr. Lucky

[ladydesigner]

did you consider maybe moving out for some time?

just for example, one weekend in a hotel or at a friend's place...? just so you can move away from him and clear your head for a little bit? is that possible?

 

I actually just got back from out of town to see my dad (he is in his second round of chemo). I know not much of a break huh? It seems no matter what amount of space and work I put into myself it becomes undone when my WH acts like this.

[Friskyone4u]

Lady,

 

You are not the one that is supposed to be carrying the ball here. he is supposed to be busting his balls to earn back your trust and the gift you are offering him.

 

And you are not weak. You are probably still in shock, but you have made a good point. The real "fog" is in a lot of cases with the BS who can't pull the trigger for whatever reason. This is the more damaging fog to your mental health.

 

Once you emerge from your fog, the decisions that have to be made to knock the wayward out of theirs becomes much easier.

[drifter777]

I've referred to "BS" fog a number of times because it definitely applied to me on d-day and for weeks after. It's that shock, anger, pain, and fear that hits us all at once when we find out the person we loved and trusted has betrayed us in the worst possible way. As we recoil from all this we are literally fumbling for something to make it all stop. The temptation to just get through this and put if behind us is overwhelming for many. We want to believe WS is sorry and that their begging for a second chance is real. What we cannot understand - at least the first time - is that they will say anything to placate us. They don't want to leave - their cake-eating was wonderful but now it blew up and they truly need their BS so their "home" life can return to normal. For these and many other reasons, the BS is desperate for some sense of normalcy and will agree to most anything.

 

Now you have become rational again so you are seeing through his bullsh*t and are, understandably, angry. I rarely contribute to BW threads but this one hit home. The longer you stay and put up with this the harder it will be to divorce him and the more you will grow to hate yourself. Screw up all of your strength and get to a lawyer and start divorce proceedings. Don't sleep with him anymore - get him to move out if possible. If he gets mean with you then get Restraining Order and boot him out. If you are worried about the cost of a divorce - most states have laws that will make him pick up the tab if he is the only one working outside the home of if he makes considerably more than you. No matter what, I guarantee you will find legal aid to divorce this POS. Good luck.

[Furious]

I'm beginning to realize I'm in the fog about my M. Why I ever thought I could save this. I don't understand why I am such a weak person, why I have such problems trying to leave my M.

 

He has basically told me after arguing last night that he feels like he is at his breaking point. Breaking point? He hasn't even done half of the work to make me feel safe. He also told me I haven't done any work towards R. I still can barely wrap my mind the False R I discovered a year ago.

 

i can't stand myself.

 

 

I'm afraid of heights, but I'm more afraid of not experiencing beautiful places that requires taking a plane. I'd rather die in a plane crash than die not ever having been to Venice, Paris, Tokyo....etc.

 

That's the thing with fear, it's familiar, it's safe in a weird kind of way, it's like the saying the "better the devil you know than the devil you don't know", it's the familiar against the risk of letting go.

 

Maybe, someday you'll tell your husband to FOG OFF and I'll see you in Venice.

[nightmare01]

Advice given by those of us further down the road is easy to give... but realistically it's hard to take that advice and run with it. I doubt very much is I could somehow give advice now to myself then - I doubt I would take that advice because I wasn't strong enough back then to take it.

 

A WS in an affair is controlling their BS via their lying. Their relationship with us is all manipulation, and I think they like that control and get used to it. So after the affair ends, they (maybe out of habit) try to keep that status quo.

 

As far as you working on the M and R.... right now, work on YOU. If you get stronger and better it will make the M and R better.

[minimariah]

I've referred to "BS" fog a number of times because it definitely applied to me on d-day and for weeks after. It's that shock, anger, pain, and fear that hits us all at once when we find out the person we loved and trusted has betrayed us in the worst possible way. As we recoil from all this we are literally fumbling for something to make it all stop. The temptation to just get through this and put if behind us is overwhelming for many. We want to believe WS is sorry and that their begging for a second chance is real. What we cannot understand - at least the first time - is that they will say anything to placate us. They don't want to leave - their cake-eating was wonderful but now it blew up and they truly need their BS so their "home" life can return to normal. For these and many other reasons, the BS is desperate for some sense of normalcy and will agree to most anything.

 

this is such a perfect description.

 

you just want to press fast forward and move to the healing part. the pain is suffocating. you'd give anything for just a day of your normal life again... incredibly painful.

 

lady, i am really sorry for what you're going through. i'd suggest you somehow gather up all your strength and move out for a longer period of time, away from your WH - if that's an option.

[RightThere]

It took me a LONG time to decide on divorce. I was a stubborn mo-fo. Even after I discovered the really heinous stuff 8 months into our reconciliation, I was still undecided. For me, I think I was just desperately trying to preserve a nuclear family for my kids. What helped me turn a corner was the realization that my motivation for staying was now ONLY about my kids and that I really no longer had any love for my wife. I suspect that what would help you turn the corner is going to be very unique to you.

 

One thing I can tell you is that once I made the decision to divorce, it was like 10 tons had been lifted off of my shoulders. I was just so relieved to know that the attempt to reconcile was OVER.

 

I can totally relate to exactly this.

 

I did EVERYTHING possible to preserve my family unit despite multiple false reconstitutions and D-Days post original D-Day.

 

Once I finally decided enough was enough, I knew I was going to be fine. The things I worried about in terms of access to my daughter, finances, coping with being a single dad, they all took care of themselves pretty quick. The fear of wanting to not let go of the last threads of a relationship are scary (especially for a stubborn guy).

 

But once you let go knowing that you at least did everything you could to salvage the relationship, nothing gives me more peace now.

[bigman1]

Chin up. There is no "right way" to respond to a betrayal. Never get down on yourself. In boxing, they say that its not the punches that you see coming that hurt, its the ones that you don't. You got sucker punched and you did not even know that you were in a fight.

 

Eventually, you will get your feet under you. Til then, you are doing fine as evidenced by the fact that you have raised these issues. You know where you are, you just don't have your balance yet and he is not doing what it takes to help. That's 100 percent on him.

[World's.Edge]

It's so sad.. actually infuriating how many stories similar to yours there are on this forum, even from posters in this thread.

 

I have no idea why anyone stays with someone who's cheated on them. I know there are various reasons some convince themselves of, excuses people make and situations whereby one can't leave, a few of which I can understand but really, why do that to yourself?.. especially if your spouse is unremorseful and a d***.

 

ladydesigner, you say you're weak, fine. You've identified an issue. If you want to change that then change.

 

You should use The 180. It'll help provide you with some level of detachment and perspective so that you're in a better position to decide on your future. If you decide on the 180, stick to it, don't just use it for a few days, at least several weeks.

 

Focus on yourself and work towards being the best version of yourself. Work out and exercise, socialize and do things that you enjoy.

[World's.Edge]

The 180

1. Don’t pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don’t point out “good points” in marriage.

4. Don’t follow him around the house.

5. Don’t encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don’t ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

7. Don’t ask for reassurances.

8. Don’t buy or give gifts.

9. Don’t schedule dates together.

10. Don’t keep saying, “I Love You!” Because if you really think about it, he is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don’t push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you’re in the habit of asking your spouse his whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your spouse needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that “they (the wayward spouse)” are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…without them!

17. Don’t be nasty, angry or even cold – Just pull yourself back. Don’t always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you’re missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!

21. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Hear what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It’s not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don’t care.

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It “ain’t over till it’s over!”

32. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don’t work out with the affair partner.

[drifter777]

The 180

1. Don’t pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don’t point out “good points” in marriage.

4. Don’t follow him around the house.

5. Don’t encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don’t ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

7. Don’t ask for reassurances.

8. Don’t buy or give gifts.

9. Don’t schedule dates together.

10. Don’t keep saying, “I Love You!” Because if you really think about it, he is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don’t push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you’re in the habit of asking your spouse his whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your spouse needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that “they (the wayward spouse)” are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…without them!

17. Don’t be nasty, angry or even cold – Just pull yourself back. Don’t always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you’re missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!

21. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Hear what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It’s not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don’t care.

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It “ain’t over till it’s over!”

32. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don’t work out with the affair partner.

I completely disagree with using the 180 as a strategy to get your WS back. It's phony and the WS will sense that and continue to play the BS.

 

This list is a good guide but throw out anything that suggests that by doing or not doing something you will become more attractive to your WS. Do it for yourself. You cannot be a good parent while suffering to reconcile with a non-repentant WS. You will destroy your own ego and self-esteem by tolerating the WS's behavior. Turn your back on them and walk away. File for divorce. Zero contact unless it is important for the kids or you are exchanging dates & times for the divorce proceedings. When you can stay on this path for a few weeks you will start to feel better and your resolve will strengthen. You will tolerate nothing phony from your WS if/when they come back begging for another chance. At that point you can consider trying to reconcile but you will now have the perspective of a person who knows they will make it just fine on their own. A powerful position to have when working on true reconciliation. And if you decide that the relationship is dead then you are already well on your way to a new life. This is the true 180.

[World's.Edge]

I completely disagree with using the 180 as a strategy to get your WS back. It's phony and the WS will sense that and continue to play the BS.

 

This list is a good guide but throw out anything that suggests that by doing or not doing something you will become more attractive to your WS.

 

I never wrote that she should use The 180 as a strategy to get her wayward spouse. The 180 is for her, to help her.

 

You should use The 180. It'll help provide you with some level of detachment and perspective so that you're in a better position to decide on your future.

Edited July 28, 2015 by World's.Edge

[drifter777]

I never wrote that she should use The 180 as a strategy to get her wayward spouse. The 180 is for her' date=' to help [i']her[/i].

Wasn't talking about you. I am talking about the list & steps you posted. They clearly have getting your WS back as the goal. And I understand as well as anyone that the 180 is for the BS. That's why it can't be a strategy.

[autumnnight]

ladydesigner, you are NOT weak. You are a strong and principled woman who tried to keep her family together in spite of a lazy WH who won't step up.

 

I agree with Furious. HE should be carrying this ball.

[World's.Edge]

I completely disagree with using the 180 as a strategy to get your WS back. It's phony and the WS will sense that and continue to play the BS.

 

This list is a good guide but throw out anything that suggests that by doing or not doing something you will become more attractive to your WS. Do it for yourself. You cannot be a good parent while suffering to reconcile with a non-repentant WS. You will destroy your own ego and self-esteem by tolerating the WS's behavior. Turn your back on them and walk away. File for divorce. Zero contact unless it is important for the kids or you are exchanging dates & times for the divorce proceedings. When you can stay on this path for a few weeks you will start to feel better and your resolve will strengthen. You will tolerate nothing phony from your WS if/when they come back begging for another chance. At that point you can consider trying to reconcile but you will now have the perspective of a person who knows they will make it just fine on their own. A powerful position to have when working on true reconciliation. And if you decide that the relationship is dead then you are already well on your way to a new life. This is the true 180.

 

She's admitted that she's too weak to leave. Her filing for divorce (which I'm in favour of) and going zero contact might be more than she's willing or able to do.

 

That's why I suggested The 180, with its faults and all, as sort of a step ladder. It might help her attain distance from him and by focusing on herself she can develop her confidence and become more self-assured so that if she chooses, she has the strength and certainty to file for divorce and have zero contact with him (but ja, some parts should have been edited out of that list, I see that now).

 

Otherwise, I'm basically for everything you've written.. In fact, I'm stealing it.

Edited July 28, 2015 by World's.Edge

[World's.Edge]

ladydesigner, You cannot be a good parent while suffering to reconcile with a non-repentant wayward husband. You will destroy your own ego and self-esteem by tolerating is behavior. Turn your back on him and walk away. File for divorce. Zero contact unless it is important for the kids or you are exchanging dates & times for the divorce proceedings. When you can stay on this path for a few weeks you will start to feel better and your resolve will strengthen. You will tolerate nothing phony from your husnband if/when he comes back begging for another chance. At that point you can consider trying to reconcile but you will now have the perspective of a person who knows they will make it just fine on their own. A powerful position to have when working on true reconciliation. And if you decide that the relationship is dead then you are already well on your way to a new life.

[I4givehim]

I'm beginning to realize I'm in the fog about my M. Why I ever thought I could save this. I don't understand why I am such a weak person, why I have such problems trying to leave my M.

 

He has basically told me after arguing last night that he feels like he is at his breaking point. Breaking point? He hasn't even done half of the work to make me feel safe. He also told me I haven't done any work towards R. I still can barely wrap my mind the False R I discovered a year ago.

 

i can't stand myself.

 

He will say anything to make you mad. My H told me I betrayed him. I was working to much. So it was ok for him to go have a year long A on me. Don't listen to him. He is just trying to get under your skin.