veronese Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Without relating loads of details here is my question:- My husband is emphatic he worked at one address throughout Monday. Cell phone tracking records I requested detailed his movements as having been in numerous locations during the same period. He is sticking to his story, denies having left the premises whatsoever, and categorically maintains he is telling the truth. The tracking company have checked their records and have said the reports are accurate and reliable. According to them there is no possibility of error. The signal from the phone identifies it's location so had the phone been in one place all day, all the reports would have substaniated that fact. Who's telling the truth?? Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Woah. It totally doesn't matter. Save yourself the James Bond Agency wages, and leave him. Link to post Share on other sites
Devildog Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 WTF? If you are going to the lengths of paying someone to track him by his cell phone, there are obviously some serious trust issues. Have you been taking your meds? You would scare me. Why hasn't he run away screaming? Link to post Share on other sites
Author veronese Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 You're so understanding devil dog, just oozing with helpful comments. Yes, we do have trust issues - found out my husband wasn't as honest as I'd believed for 17 years. I'm doing my best to get over it but admit my confidence has taken a battering. I'm taken aback by your opinion, I'm sorry I scared you. If I had the misfortune to have you as my husband I'd be delighted to see the back of you running away, screaming like a girl. Link to post Share on other sites
Devildog Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 You are quite welcome. Glad I could be of some assistance. Seriously though, if you are going through that kind of trouble to check up on your husband, I don't think there is much hope for you. I mean it is one thing to check his phone records and email in an effort to rebuild trust in a marriage. But tracking his cell phone's physical location is just beyond over the top. If it is at that level I have to wonder if you are going to do whatever it takes to catch him in any kind of lie. If I had been the unfaithful partner in my soon to be terminated marriage, and if I was trying to earn back my STBXW's trust, and she went to that extreme of an attempt to find anything, I would leave. Why don't you just sew some radio transmitters into his clothes? Link to post Share on other sites
Author veronese Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 i'm checking up on him because i have no way of knowing what to think as throughout the years of lies and deceit i didn't have a clue so it's kind of scary. I may sound crazy but i want our marriage to survive and be good, and if occasional checks reassure me i think they're worth doing. in the 17 years we've been together i didn't check on him even once. I didn't check his phone, his bills, his pockets, nothing. I trusted him implicitly and didn't suspect for a moment he had another side to his character. Anyway, this cell phone checking is no big deal and really cheap, but then maybe i should have buried my head a bit deeper into the sand? I guess so mr devildog Link to post Share on other sites
Devildog Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 It is comendable that you want to save your marriage. Rebuilding trust is never easy after a betrayal. But it shouldn't be impossible either. It should and will take time, and you should check up on him from time to time for your own peace of mind as well as to make sure he stays on the straight and narrow. But cell phone location tracking seems way overboard to me. It might be a cultural thing, but cell phones in the US can't be tracked by just anyone. They possibly could with a court order signed by a judge in a federal case or something, but not just anyone off the street. Maybe that is why I think it is over the top. England is apparently different regarding laws of individual privacy. Is it different as well on what is acceptable in ascertaining marital fidelity and honesty? Link to post Share on other sites
Soon2bsngl Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Actually Nextel has a GPS tracking program that you can subscribe to. My husband's sneaky actions left me wanting to sign up for it also. I guess I'm crazy too Veronese!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Devildog Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Originally posted by Soon2bsngl Actually Nextel has a GPS tracking program that you can subscribe to. My husband's sneaky actions left me wanting to sign up for it also. I guess I'm crazy too Veronese!!! Is that for tracking purposes? Or does it simply incorporate GPS functions into the phone, so you know where you are? Most newer phones have the ability to broadcast your GPS location when you make a 911 call. Link to post Share on other sites
Soon2bsngl Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 It will actully give you the exact location of where the phone physically is. Its called Mobile Locator. It allows you to view the phone location on an on-line map. Link to post Share on other sites
Devildog Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Wow, I am surprised the ACLU hasn't grabbed their torches and pitchforks to shut that down. I can see some advantages to that if it is stolen, but the potential for abuse of that... surprised no one is screaming "big brother" on that. Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 It is pretty big brotherish, but I can see the benefits of it too - say, if you were in trouble/abducted/whatever. Otherwise, its pretty creepy to think that someone out there would be tracking my every move all the time like that if there really wasn't a reason for it. As for the question at hand, does the company tell you addresses of the physical locations? Maybe you could put your mind at ease and just drive by and see what sort of place it is. Or, you could just tell your husband that you know for a fact that he was at "address A" at a certain time of day and ask him what he was doing there. See what he says then. Link to post Share on other sites
sylviaguardian Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Originally posted by veronese Without relating loads of details here is my question:- My husband is emphatic he worked at one address throughout Monday. Cell phone tracking records I requested detailed his movements as having been in numerous locations during the same period. He is sticking to his story, denies having left the premises whatsoever, and categorically maintains he is telling the truth. The tracking company have checked their records and have said the reports are accurate and reliable. According to them there is no possibility of error. The signal from the phone identifies it's location so had the phone been in one place all day, all the reports would have substaniated that fact. Who's telling the truth?? The nightmare continues..Veronese, so sorry for you going through the same old **** (big hug). I am presuming that your husband knows that you have tracked the phone calls? I don't know all the ins and outs of phone tracking but if the phone company insist that they are from different locations I don't see how the story fits. Maybe it's time to put your cards on the table and give him some sort of ultimatum. Tell him that you don't want to hear any more lies, just the truth. My guess is that if he is still doing things that he needs to lie about, he has not taken on board what he was doing was a WRONG thing! From my own experience, when I found the first text from the other woman and went mad my husband was crying and begging and saying that he would do anything for us to be together. I found out later that when we stopped at a service station 15 minutes later he texted her and continued to text her throughout our family holiday. To cut a long story short, when I asked him how he could do that, he said he didn't think it mattered because I wouldn't find out and he had decided to fade it out so it was OK. i was livid and could not get him to see how much further damage it had caused. Anyway, the upshot is I have found out through 6 months of thinking and our counselling session that although my husband had wanted to get married, he had never really addressed what he was supposed to do now that he was married. It had never occurred to him that marriage needs protecting from outside influences and that he couldn't have 'close friendships' with other women without damaging the marriage. As he didn't really think about what the 'rules' were, he didn't see that he had to play by them and continued with his 'what she doesn't know doesn't hurt approach. Sound familiar? If your husband really is still lying to you (and I don't know that for sure of course) he has not got message from all the **** you have been through! You need to tell him in no uncertain terms exactly what's at stake here. It seems like it has not sunk in and now that the worst has blown over, he has reverted to his default behaviour i.e. enjoying the benefits of being married and being part of a family without him having to make any compromises. I don't know what to suggest Veronese. It's clear that you can't go on with this level of doubt. You mentioned that you thought about counselling. Is it time to go maybe? Just seems that your husband has some issues that he's not really addressing. We have only had one session but the counsellor had a way of subtly pointing things out to my husband that I couldn't have a) because I couldn't see the bigger picture and b) because I am still a seething mass of rage!! I am feeling a bit better today but last night I really thought I was going to end up in the local mental hospital for Christmas. I really feel for you and I'm rooting for you. There is a chance that you can still sort things out but sounds like he hasn't done too much thinking about his behaviour. Hang in there Veronese. Sylvia X Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 LOL...I work in the Telecommunications industry, and yes the 911 type locator services are mandated by the government to work within a specific actual distance of the phone. So, I'd trust that what the company says is accurate about his location. You did the right thing by confronting him point blank...and I wouldn't tell him or show him how you're tracking him. Let him think you've hired a PI or something. But, make it damn clear that there is NO confusion over where he's been...so let him know he's GOT to come clean, or you'll NEVER trust him. As far as whether or not tracking like this is "too far"...I guess it depends. If you've got no othe ways to prove/disprove his honesty at this point, it may be about your only option. And after a while, you'll either be reassured that his actions match his words, and you'll relax in what you're doing, or you'll continue to find issues and trust will never be regained. It sux to go through something like this, I can relate friend. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites
sylviaguardian Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 By the way Veronese, if you interested in counselling, I would suggest an independent counsellor rather than relate or marriage guidance. Someone told me that relate counsellors just concentrate on putting the 'spark' back into the marriage and improving communication. It was very important to me to get to the root of the problem and I feel that I am getting nearer to that now. I don't know if my husband will be able to change his outlook but at least I know we are addressing the right issues now and if it fails, we'll have given it our best shot. Our counsellor uses person-centred therapy. Just a thought.. Sylvia Link to post Share on other sites
KissMyTiara Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 My mother works for a cellular company, and this what you were told is not necessarily true. Unless you have some sort of tracking device on his phone, plain old cellular tracking isn't going to do you very much good. They really only can track what tower he was connected to, and if it shows he's not connecting through the same tower all week, you may think it's because he's moving around...but the truth is that I can leave my phone in my house all day and it may leap back and forth between the numerous towers in my city just because of backlog, too many connections going through one, weather, etc. If you REALLY want to track him, the phone isn't going to work bc now he knows you are on to him. Instead, get this thing that you stick under the bumper of his car - it's a tracking device, and you can actually log on to the internet and see exactly where he is at any moment. Any PI can get one for you. I had to use one in one of my cases - to prove the plaintiff was moving all about and not really injured or scared of driving! They're nifty! Link to post Share on other sites
Author veronese Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 You can't go round checking anyone's cell phones without their prior permission. When you ask for a phone to be tracked the company sends a text to the phone requesting their consent. The purpose of this service was initially to reassure parents of their children's' whereabouts without the children having to lose face in front of their friends. It's a facility that gives peace of mind. It also enables people to have confirmation of their spouse's movements which in situations like mine, when trust has been damaged, can speed up the healing process or alternatively, bring things to a head. It may seem an extreme measure to take, but not only had I told my husband about it, he was fully in agreement with me doing it. If he wanted to check on me I wouldn't have a problem with it because I have no reason to be secretive. He believed the results could only be beneficial to our marriage. The location reports are not specific to a particular address, but identify a location within 500meters of the cell phone in central London. In more rural areas the accuracy decreases to 2 or 3km. It may seem like 'Big Brother' but over here we're getting used to it. There are CCTV cameras everywhere, police speed traps which photograph speeding cars. We now have to pay a charge to drive into the centre of town, and if we don't our registration plate is photographed and a fine is issued. The government are even pushing to bring in ID cards soon which is not being well received. Truth is when technology enables cheaters to cheat, it follows that technology can also catch them out. Finally....all this technology is not altogether reliable. I had the evidence of my husband's unexplained movements but I still couldn't quite believe it. I felt like an idiot but agreed to go with him to do a re-run of that day. The locator was completely wrong on the phone I was checking on! I don't know why but it was. We noted where we were at particular times then compared the details with the electronic reports when we got home. The locations were miles apart, not even in the same area. We were so bloody happy and relieved. I'm going to call the company soon to let them know that the service is not reliable and shouldn't be marketed as such. I still can't believe they could be so convincing. They told me there was no margin of error, that it was 100% accurate. Ha ha ha! Oh how we laughed!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Originally posted by KissMyTiara My mother works for a cellular company, and this what you were told is not necessarily true. Unless you have some sort of tracking device on his phone, plain old cellular tracking isn't going to do you very much good. They really only can track what tower he was connected to, and if it shows he's not connecting through the same tower all week, you may think it's because he's moving around...but the truth is that I can leave my phone in my house all day and it may leap back and forth between the numerous towers in my city just because of backlog, too many connections going through one, weather, etc. If you REALLY want to track him, the phone isn't going to work bc now he knows you are on to him. Instead, get this thing that you stick under the bumper of his car - it's a tracking device, and you can actually log on to the internet and see exactly where he is at any moment. Any PI can get one for you. I had to use one in one of my cases - to prove the plaintiff was moving all about and not really injured or scared of driving! They're nifty! KMT- It used to be that the only way you can track a cell is by signal strength at the tower like you described. But, most major companies are offering "location based services", which is a service that is similar to what Veronese is describing. You agree to allow the company to use it's 911 type services to track your location...for various reasons. This type of t-com work is what I do for a living. I don't know much about how the european version works, but the concept is pretty much the same anywhere. The "lowjack" you've described is a pretty cool idea...never seen one actually deployed, so I'm sure you'd know a lot more on that subject than I would. Link to post Share on other sites
sylviaguardian Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Veronese - so glad for you hon! Link to post Share on other sites
Author veronese Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 thanks for all the support and encouragement. I can't tell you how good I feel right now. Kiss my tiara seems to have an explanation for the results which makes perfect sense and shows me just how incompetent the guy was at the company. Sylvia, Owl, thanks for taking the time to reply. I'm following your threads regularly and understand how difficult things are for you right now. I wish I could be more supportive but time constraints are a constant hindrance. Prepare yourself for more highs and lows, it's been 8 months for us now and I've just gone through 48 hours of complete torment and fear. My H is with me right now and asked if he could let you know how he is feeling.... "When we were told yesterday that the the reports were 100% accurate, I just knew I just had to do something because I KNEW those records were wrong. I booked today off to try to find a way to prove I was telling the truth. But looking at the evidence even I wouldn't have believed me in her shoes. My biggest fear was that these records could jeopordise the marriage. All the months of rebuilding confidence and trust were about to be shattered over something I had no control over. I felt bloody awful for Veronese because I could see how bad the evidence appeared to be, and how difficult it was for her to believe me in view of past history. I was grateful that she didn't lose her composure and retained some faith in me. I hope veron continues to believe in me and our marriage and that we continue to stay strong for each other. This one has been a real bast*** but I think it was just another test. She could have kicked me out without further discussion, the records being evidence enough to not warrant any more effort on her part. But no, we knocked our heads together to find a solution. Neither one of us knew what the outcome would be, the records confused the hell out of me, but we spent today together driving over both the route I had taken and the addresses that had appeared on the report, we were desperately hoping for a positive outcome but were apprehensive too. In spite of the circumstances we really enjoyed spending the day together. I do love her very much and want to spend my life with her..... Jude x" So there you go guys, straight from the horse's mouth! Big hug Veron xx Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 OK...well I can share a similar experience from my own life too. About 2-3 months ago, when I was still checking up on my wife regularly, I had two bits of evidence show up that had me convinced that she had resumed contact with her OM. She had had a seperate "secret" email account that she used to email him that she assumed I knew nothing about. But, I was able to see where she'd gone to it on her computer history, and the cookie settings would show the name of the last account logged into that email site. Knowing her, I knew that she would have used one of about 6 possible passwords, so hacking it wasn't easy. I'd gotten into the habit of logging into it every few days to see if they'd communicated. One weekend, I'd turned her computer on for her, and noticed that it had been to that particular email group...when I went to the page, it showed that her account had been the last one logged into. I didn't say anything, but was furious because I thought that she had tried resuming contact. That Sunday nite, I carried her cell phone downstairs to plug into it, and looked at the call history. Her phone only holds 10 inc and 10 outgoing...and I could clearly see the OMs # on the outgoing. The display only showed his #, no other info at the time. I confronted her about both things...and she was flat insistent that she HADN'T done either thing, regardless of what the 'proof' said. She didn't try to say that it might have been this or that...she just had no idea how any of that could have been there. We didn't resolve it that nite, and I was flat freaked out by what was going on. Next morning, I stayed home from work, and ended up looking deeper into each, and finally talking with our teenagers. Found out that my oldest daughter had created a new email and IM acct on her mom's computer...using the same provider that her mom's secret acct had been on. Restarting the computer, I found out that the cookies had still been set to automatically log her mom's acct into it whenever they accessed that page. My daughter hadn't thought anything of it, just logged her mom off whenever she went to that page and logged into her own account!! LOL On the phone, I looked at it harder, and figured out how to bring up the date/time for the call history...and found that her call history doesn't work on her phone. It showed the date time of that call...05/16/04 at 4:26pm...back when the affair was just discovered. It turned out that her phone is messed up, and the call history doesn't update at all like its supposed to...which meant that she hadn't made that call!! LOL So I can understand just exactly how it can feel when you find evidence that the affair is still going on. So, what WERE the addresses that had been driven? And, why did he say that he hadn't gone anywhere when now he admits that he HAD been driving around? Link to post Share on other sites
Author veronese Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 Your story sounds so familiar owl. As time's gone on I've kept certain doubts to myself, eventually working out the answers without involving Jude. Of course I have slipped up once or twice and blurted out yet another stupid question which makes me look neurotic. However there are times when the evidence is stacking up against our partners when the only option is to lay it out on the table and wait for some answers. I honestly didn't hold out much hope over this recent dilemma, mainly because the guy told me it wasn't a mistake. I was preparing myself for the worst yet had a curious sense of hope deep inside me. We went to the address he said he'd been working at all day, and hung around long enough to get a couple of readings on the address (over an hour there). We then drove around visiting the locations listed on the records, just to double check their validity and to see whether our movements would be recorded accurately. They weren't .... some were vaguely nearby, others were nowhere near. But most importantly, while we waited at the address he had worked the day in, the records showed a location several miles away. We knew the times we'd been at each location, and there was no shadow of a doubt that while we were there the tracker recorded a totally different address and area. It was an absolute delight - it was placing us in an area we hadn't been near, that also showed up in these bloody records. The rest of the details were also inaccurate and misleading. I couldn't believe my eyes. Concrete proof that he was telling the truth. I'm exhausted now but feel so contented and reassured. All of these turbulent situations do seem to make us stronger. Both of us felt wretched by the turn of events but neither of us were prepared to give up on the other. I felt so confused and anxious but until i got proof for myself I wasn't prepared to end a marriage over a bunch of computer records. No doubt there will be a 'next time', when something else rears it's ugly head to challenge us, but until then there's Christmas shopping to do, a holiday (in Canada) through Christmas and new year, then hopefully a kinder year ahead of us. How's things with you Owl? Are you doing ok today? Link to post Share on other sites
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