katielee Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Isn't KNOWING someone has your back very different than hoping for the best? I suppose many of us are here because we thought our spouse's had our back but that must have been an illusion because they didn't. So, does that mean we surge forward and hope for the best? Knowing betrayal could happen again? What is the point of trust then? Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Isn't KNOWING someone has your back very different than hoping for the best? I suppose many of us are here because we thought our spouse's had our back but that must have been an illusion because they didn't. So, does that mean we surge forward and hope for the best? Knowing betrayal could happen again? What is the point of trust then? i think the point of trust is NOT knowing. if you knew for sure that someone will have your back... then you wouldn't have the need to trust them because you'd know for a fact that they're with you. not sure if i'm explaining it correctly. you can never KNOW if someone has your back, will someone have your back or what will happen in the future. you don't even know if you're going to be alive next year. so that's why you choose to trust, have faith and believe that the person you're with will do right by you. it's about risk & luck, really. you decide to trust someone and you hope that you did the right thing, you hope they will justify that. in the words of the great Bob Marley: 'The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.' Link to post Share on other sites
Noirek Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Both. You can make the descision to trust your kids and hand them the car keys without feelings of trust. But after they have proven that your trust was not in vain the feeling of trust can come. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
star gaze Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 From limited experience in relationships I have, I am convinced that trust is a choice that takes long time in making. It’s not that we lend money to newly hired colleague in our office or foist our children for babysitting to new neighbours. So, IMO, trust is choice that is fortified by experiences where our initial doubts (if any) were mollified many times. But time and situations change, and so do people. So, I think we will never KNOW that somebody has our back always, but we can make educated gamble to trust and HOPE that our decisions are right. I’m also slowly coming in terms that betrayal could happen again, but I’m trying very hard for this not to deter me from having good relationship until it will last. It’s all about risk/benefit ratio. It may sound cold, but it’s very much like a business transaction IMO. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Lion Heart Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I'm old. 3 marraiges. 4 LTR relationships in between. This short thread starter sent blocks of concepts coming into my thoughts after reading it. 1) we often project our own character traits on our chosen partner. So if we are trustworthy, we trust people. If we don't trust anyone, it's because we are not trustworthy. (Allowances to be made for those recovering from bad break ups here). 2) it pays to know your basic personality. If you are optomistic or pessimistic. I was born an optomist but now prefer to describe myself as a pessimistic optomist! 3) basically if you want to develop any wisdom on the topic then there is ALOT to be had. Not from jaded individuals but simply wiser ones. One excellent piece of advice found here in my old age lol, is to NEVER TRUST ANYONE 100%. This is EXACTLY what I'll endeavour to teach my children. 4) if you follow number 3, then it's not actually possible to be "devastated" by any person or their actions. Sure we may be hurt but not totally devastated. It's a good place to navigate life from. Safer, more secure and most certainly happier even. This perspective allows us to be strong, independent individuals because we practice detachment. Detachment is actually a virtue. Yes it is mentioned in the most prominent Holy Books of the major religions on earth. No point throwing the baby out with the bathwater there. I'm remiss recalling which Eastern philosopher said something like this: when you are given a gift, the moment you hold it in your hands, imagine it broken into a million pieces. So when it is, you are not disappointed. The "gift" may be a coffee mug or a marraige. Replace broken with lost. Hope that makes sense! The best person to rely on having your back is yourself. It's a delight and a surprise then when someone else does. THIS act from someone else then changes from "expected" from us to "gratitude". :-) Lion Heart. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
fellini Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I trusted that my WW had my back until the day her future AP gave her a hug and set off a flurry of emotions which led her not to not only have my back covered, but her own. 2 seconds before that connection was made, if someone were to ask her, would she consider having an affair, she would be shocked. 2 seconds after that hug if you asked her the same question, she might say "ummmmmm"... Which woman did I marry? Or did I marry both? Is married life merely schrodengers cat? 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think some of us trust more easily than others because it is in our basic nature or personality. Those of us that are more optimistic tend to trust more easily. I trust that everyone is trustworthy....John...who says he is a realist...trusts no one. I find i am disappointed much of the time...because people tend to abuse my trust. It is something i have worked on my whole life...and i swear each time i am disappointed to not trust again...but i always wind up repeating the same process. It truly gets me into trouble. I am old enough and wise enough to know in my head that no one is trust worthy...but not in my heart. Trust is a part of everyday life....not with just our spouse or our children. Every person you encounter on a daily basis requires your trust to some degree. Trust is not necessarily having someone's back....but it certainly means not putting a knife in it. Once trust is broken...i think it is a very hard thing to get back...but i think it can be done. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
atreides Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 well "knowing" is not necessarily trust. Trust is still a belief in... Put it this way, if you choose never to believe in any future partner, you will cheat yourself and the new partner. You will still be giving power over your life to the wayward that cheated. I say hell no, can we be betrayed again and again, absolutely. But that does not mean i will not give 100% each time. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 I trust that my husband is fiscally responsible, I really do. I trust that he wants to be a good person. I trust that he isn't cheating right now. However, I trust my gut in feeling that he's always not completely honest with me. Good enough for a marriage? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
atreides Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Probably not. What is your gut telling you about how honest, something in the present or past? Deciding to reconcile entails a new start, if you are plagued by second guessing, then there is more work to do. The question then is not about trust but what you give now vs the opportunity cost of starting over completely. Both are unknown quantities, but also need a value assessment. Edited March 31, 2015 by atreides 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 My gut says he's making decisions for me, based on what is good for him or the family. It's probably small - like he maybe sees either OW occasionally and doesn't tell me. Or, there was maybe a closure conversation with OW1 he didn't tell me about. The only thing I've asked for is honesty. However, I can't prove anything. I guess just trust and move forward. I remember our first MC telling me: it's not your job to get him to tell the truth. He takes it personally that I don't trust him. But after how things shook out, how could I? I had to find out about both affairs by myself. I think trust can be rebuilt but it will take years.....and him doing trustworthy things for a long time. He is different and just made a decision to trust. But it's really distracting himself, not thinking about it and hoping for the best. This may be the way to go. Link to post Share on other sites
atreides Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 okay, let me put it this way: if you chose to reconcile then you do need to give him 100% trust or you are cheating yourself, the recovery and a successful marriage going forward. However if you are not decided and in some kind of limbo, then you need to work to decide as that is also cheating yourself and your h out of what could be in any given variable going forward. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Confused48 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I trust that my husband is fiscally responsible, I really do. I trust that he wants to be a good person. I trust that he isn't cheating right now. However, I trust my gut in feeling that he's always not completely honest with me. Good enough for a marriage? A wise and good business man once told me, "You should do business with me bc I am honest." He was in a business infamous for dishonesty. He elaborated. He said he was not telling me he was very honest, mostly honest or more honest. He used no qualifiers, he said, bc to him, honesty was a pass fail thing. You either are or are not. There is no point in saying you are mostly trustworthy either. IMHO 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 honesty was a pass fail thing. You either are or are not. There is no point in saying you are mostly trustworthy either. IMHO agreed. and if there comes a time when I find that he has not been then I know what to do. That other shoe may never drop. I guess one just moves on living their life NOT waiting for other other shoe to drop. Now, if someone asked me for something and I didn't feel I could do it I would tell them. I'm sure he wouldn't want me to be mostly faithful either. But if I felt I couldn't do that I would let him go. Link to post Share on other sites
nightmare01 Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 All BS trusted our WS, and look where that got us. If anything my WW betrayal opened my eyes to the true nature of people around me. As Lion said above, we tend to think others have the same values and qualities we do. The truth we all learned is that is simply not true. The only person we can trust is ourselves. As far as other people, we can trust them only to do things that is in their own personal best interest. To cope with this reality as a trusting person, I trust others to a limited degree, and most important I have a back up plan. I once trusted my WW, and was an idiot to do so. Now I trust her a little bit, but should she violate my trust I have a backup plan. I don't put any constraints on her at all. She can do as she chooses, but if she crosses a boundary I will leave her and won't look back. It's not up to my WW to make me feel safe, that's my job. Realize that most of the time people do not have your best interests at heart, they will act solely in their own self interest. So trusting others is a fools errand. The only person that truly has your best interests in mind is you. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 The only person we can trust is ourselves. As far as other people, we can trust them only to do things that is in their own personal best interest. To cope with this reality as a trusting person, I trust others to a limited degree, and most important I have a back up plan. . well, this is pretty cynical. Why get married then? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
beatcuff Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 if someone asked me for something and I didn't feel I could do it I would tell them. he is. not everything has to be with words. in fact most would agree that ACTIONS are a better indicator than words. the question is whether what he is offering is good enough for you. we all make compromises. so only you can answer. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 he is. not everything has to be with words. in fact most would agree that ACTIONS are a better indicator than words. I agree. but unless I follow him around all day and watch his actions I can't know for sure. His words are telling me he is honest. That is all I have to go on. Link to post Share on other sites
Noirek Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I agree. but unless I follow him around all day and watch his actions I can't know for sure. His words are telling me he is honest. That is all I have to go on. So right now you are choosing to trust him (the act of trusting by not spying or questioning)? But you are not feeling the trust? Correct? Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 correct, I don't question or spy. Link to post Share on other sites
JohnAdams Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 To me, trust is a feeling. I cannot just decide to trust someone. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 and i tend to trust automatically....not sure why Link to post Share on other sites
Hardgrind Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Katilee, I thought my WW had my back so when I discovered her affair it was like she stabbed me in the back instead. After D-Day she said she wanted to be with me. I debated with myself and finally decided that I would give her another chance, which meant extending some trust to her again that she had not yet earned. Unfortunately she wanted to eat her cake and have it too, and after a series of lies and lack of action on her part, I had to accept that she didn't want to be with me; she wanted me to hang around as her back up plan and security blanket while she pursued her AP. So in my case I had made a decision to extend some trust, but I was not able to sustain that trust when her subsequent behavior showed it wasn't warranted. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
beatcuff Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 I agree. but unless I follow him around all day and watch his actions I can't know for sure. His words are telling me he is honest. That is all I have to go on. what the.... ACTIONS: does he come home on time, call you when he will be late, treat you well, not bad mouth you to others, not be overly flirtations in front of you and/or ignore you at parties, defend you when warranted (and not physically, think with his family or friends). seriously did you really need me to point that out? ... he's always not completely honest with me. i guess i do. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 If he's not honest with you, you can't trust him. The feeling of trust isn't there because it he isn't always honest, and the decision to trust would be unwarranted. Maybe you trust him with a, b, and c, but not with x and y, because those are the contexts in which he is dishonest. That's completely understandable. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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