A message to all betrayed spouses.

[NoC]

Your spouse cheating on you is NOT an indicator of how bad of a partner you are or how much a better partner the OM/OW is compared to you, it's simply an indicator of how bad of a partner the wayward spouse is to you. So please don't let your ego's and self worth be shattered because of someone elses lack of morals, you are a golden jewel, you are worth everything and more!

 

My heart mourns for those who are experiencing/have experinced infidelity. Please please take care of yourselves and realize that you are not inadequate!

 

Love you all.

[fellini]

For my part it's more accurate to say that it was an indication of my WW'S poor behaviour to herself.

 

Surely it has to begin there before anywhere.

 

Once that is understood, the rest is easier to understand. If i don't have respect and behave with dignity for myself, then I can hardly respect those around me can I.

 

When a WS enters into an affair, no one here questions the selfishness of it.

 

When Dday happens, difficult as it is not to, a BS often responds in kind "you did this to me",, some see it with more complexity - "you did this to us".

 

But there is at least a 3rd option: "you did this to yourself"

 

This leaves me with the option of leaving because I do not wish to stay with self destructive women, or reconcile and rebuild from the perspective that my unchecked blind faith and her unchecked boundaries are errors we need to work on and tighten up.

[Lion Heart]

I found loveshack.org 2-3 weeks after D Day. Since this time I've learnt SO SO MUCH about infidelity for all parties.

 

But the morning after D Day I phoned my uncle and while I was talking on the phone to him I made a massive realization about my life. My father was a WH and left us to marry his OW. Plus other partners had done similar to me (too long a set of stories). Now this WH after a 15 year marriage.

 

Ofcourse I take no responsibility for any body's A but it did make me truly question THEIR motivations. Some WS and cheaters do some or all of my list I guess.

 

I'll give you my short list:

* selfishness up to the point of narcissism in some

* cowardice

* childhoods with too few or too many boundaries

* enabling type parenting going into adulthood

* lack of commitment

* duplicitous personality

* personality disorder(s)

* character defect

* lack of respect full stop

* greed

* lust

* excitement

* revenge

* part of an exit strategy

* needing to warm up the next bed to leave present partner for fear of being alone or being poor!

Etc

 

I have a fair idea why my present WH sought an A. I take no responsibility for it. I don't blame myself whatsoever. Though this is the first relationship I am in R with post infidelity. Previously I've been "butt to the curb".

 

If we are to move on in marraige or D, I need to understand him more to co-parent our 3 children of school age still at home. If we D I need to be able to SCAN a potential partner for recognition of any of above traits. Yes I am putting far more energy into myself than in my previous 15 y. The knowledge I am gathering now is incredible and I'm so grateful to LS for this support. I know I'd be in FAR worse a state without LS.

 

So thanks everyone.

 

Lion Heart.

[bathtub-row]

Sometimes it is because someone is a bad partner but the WS should've made a different choice. While I'm aware of just how much pain an affair can cause (been there), it's always a good idea to ask yourself if you did something to push your partner to make such a bad choice, or if you were an unwitting co-conspirator. For instance, my abusive ex cheated on me. He said that he did it because in a counseling session, I said that I no longer could see how our relationship was going to work out and that I wanted a divorce. Later, we decided to give it one more shot. Within two weeks, he cheated. He said he was pissed off because he knew that I was going to leave him. He knew he was abusive and knew I wouldn't stay with him. But I now can see how I played into the situation by staying and persisting in a relationship that I knew was doomed. I'm not saying I was responsible for his affair. I'm merely saying that I had a hand in it because I knew things were bad and unfixable. In other words, I made a bad call by staying.

 

I think everyone needs to look at things in terms of how they might've played into it -- not having sex with your partner for months or years, making your partner feel trapped, remaining in a tense or argumentative relationship. If we know the relationship is bad and we persist in staying, a lot of the time this will backfire on us. If there are problems and we continually ignore them, that will backfire also.

 

About the only time I think a person has no responsibility in this situation is when they're with a serial cheater and they have no idea the person is like that. Again, I'm not saying it's their fault but as long as we play the game, if we're involved, then there was most likely some red flag somewhere that we chose to ignore.

Edited February 1, 2015 by bathtub-row

[fellini]

I think your observations, which are admittedly complex enough, need to distinguish between someone who is having an infidelity and blaming their perceived dead marriage on it, and therefore really had two choices:

 

Obviously the preferred way, AND IN THIS ORDER: walk out the door, end the marriage, find a new lover

 

THE CHOSEN PATH - is the same but in reverse. Find a lover, officially end the marriage (DDAY) walk out the door.

 

These are only one kind of affair.

 

Blaming the marriage / realising you stayed when you shouldn't does not wash when the route is:

 

Be in love - discover feelings in a friendship with co-worker - start to transfer feelings from SO to developing AP - start to see weaknesses in marriage (not realise/admit shifting feelings to AP is a huge source of weakness in M) start to fall in love with AP and (surprise surprise) out of love with Spouse. First Kiss (sometimes guilt) more Kisses (less guilt) - Sex - repeat as often as possible until - DDay - back in love with BS.

 

Any discourse about how someone was pushed, or felt unneeded, unwanted, undesired is always strangely in relation to the fact that they have found someone to make them feel needed, wanted, desirable and really shouldn't be the focus for the catalyst of the infidelity.

 

 

So I think in the first scenario, the infidelity is horrible, but so was the marriage. The marriage was in need of a life raft or put down like an extremely sick dog, and infidelity was used instead.

In the second, in which there are a lot of stories here in LS, the marriage was not the catalyst for the betrayal. The marriage didn't need saving, the WS did.

 

Sometimes it is because someone is a bad partner but the WS should've made a different choice. While I'm aware of just how much pain an affair can cause (been there), it's always a good idea to ask yourself if you did something to push your partner to make such a bad choice, or if you were an unwitting co-conspirator. For instance, my abusive ex cheated on me. He said that he did it because in a counseling session, I said that I no longer could see how our relationship was going to work out and that I wanted a divorce. Later, we decided to give it one more shot. Within two weeks, he cheated. He said he was pissed off because he knew that I was going to leave him. He knew he was abusive and knew I wouldn't stay with him. But I now can see how I played into the situation by staying and persisting in a relationship that I knew was doomed. I'm not saying I was responsible for his affair. I'm merely saying that I had a hand in it because I knew things were bad and unfixable. In other words, I made a bad call by staying.

 

I think everyone needs to look at things in terms of how they might've played into it -- not having sex with your partner for months or years, making your partner feel trapped, remaining in a tense or argumentative relationship. If we know the relationship is bad and we persist in staying, a lot of the time this will backfire on us. If there are problems and we continually ignore them, that will backfire also.

 

About the only time I think a person has no responsibility in this situation is when they're with a serial cheater and they have no idea the person is like that. Again, I'm not saying it's their fault but as long as we play the game, if we're involved, then there was most likely some red flag somewhere that we chose to ignore.

Edited February 1, 2015 by fellini

[Biere123]

 

So I think in the first scenario, the infidelity is horrible, but so was the marriage. The marriage was in need of a life raft or put down like an extremely sick dog, and infidelity was used instead.

In the second, in which there are a lot of stories here in LS, the marriage was not the catalyst for the betrayal. The marriage didn't need saving, the WS did.

 

Can you clarify this last statement?

[waterwoman]

I think everyone needs to look at things in terms of how they might've played into it -- not having sex with your partner for months or years, making your partner feel trapped, remaining in a tense or argumentative relationship. If we know the relationship is bad and we persist in staying, a lot of the time this will backfire on us. If there are problems and we continually ignore them, that will backfire also.

 

 

That leaves no room for trust. The trust that no matter how bad things get you'll always have each other's backs.

 

What was wrong with our marriage before his A was wrong for both of us. We both persisted in staying beleive that it could get better and that with work, it would. Problem is neither of us ever got around to doing the work, at least not at the same time! Looking back now with the benefit of hindsight I can clearly see how it happened - and I don't doubt that if our marriage had been as it should have been it wouldn't have done. I beleived that when the kids were older/when he wasn't so stressed at work/ when my father was over his health problems/ when money stopped being such a worry* (delete as appropriate!) we would be able to focus energies on our marriage again. We talked about it - would just touch base about how distant we felt from each other and we must do something about it....but it never happened for one reason or another.

 

That has been and is being addressed and we are much happier as a couple than we have been for years.

 

In the end though there may have been reasons but there are no excuses. And if he had ever tried to make any I'd have called time. He didn't, not once. The problem with saying that a BS was responsible for the affair is that it can allow the WS to get away with it (the failure to mend the pre- A relationship and the affair) and feel vindicated, and make the BS feel like they've been punished twice and make reconciliation so much more difficult. You don't punch someone in the face and then tell them it was their fault and expect to have a chance to reconcile.

[fellini]

Not sure which statement because there are two.

 

If a fledgling or failing marriage is thought to be the catalyst for the infidelity, well, infidelity is a choice (used as the excuse by the WS). So although the impact on the BS is catastrophic, there is always the issue if the infidelity doesn't kill what little is left of it, that should the couple stay together they are in deep waters because the marriage which was in need of work has also to join with the recovery of the BS and the regaining of trust of the WS.

 

This is a rather tall order to fill if prior to the marriage "causing" the A, neither saw fit to work on it. If it was true that ONE of the couple saw fit to cheat because the marriage was so bad, then the A is just like a nail in that coffin (I am not saying it is a legitimate excuse to cheat).

 

But if the A ocurrs within the context of a somewhat healthy marriage (regardless of what that means to each of us) then it seems to me the issue - whether the WS spouse tries to deflect it or not - is not the marriage but the WS. The marriage for all intents and purposes did not need structural changes to accomodate the A and we are essentially left with a WS who needs the repair work.

 

 

Can you clarify this last statement?[/QUOte]

Edited February 1, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[RedRobin]

Yep, someone's decision to deceive while in a marriage has nothing to do with the person they are deceiving...

 

 

Nothing whatsoever.

 

 

Lots of other options for people if they aren't happy or can't work out their issues.

 

 

When my ex-H cheated on me and confessed, I didn't feel diminished as a woman or a partner at all.

 

 

It just confirmed to me what I already had suspected... that he was weak, cowardly, and had an entitlement issue. He didn't stay with his affair partner, and we did seek counseling... which I abruptly ended when my mom got breast cancer and he decided to play video games with his friends the day I heard that news instead of spending time together. *shrug*

 

 

Good riddance. He never remarried from what I heard. Which is just as well. At least he knows he isn't capable of a life-time commitment with someone.

[Biere123]

Thanks Fellini. Great points.

[central]

It's the WS's choice to cheat. Sometimes, though, the BS makes that choice easier by neglecting their spouse, treating them poorly, or failing to work on issues when asked to do so.

[fellini]

It's the WS's choice to cheat, I agree.

 

But I do not believe that the BS makes that choice EASIER, I believe that role belongs entirely to the AP.

 

Let's take your example of man or woman who believes him/herself to be in a troublesome marriage, for whatever the reason. Okay. This trouble. It had a point or series of points when it started. It became real (whether consciously or not by either spouse.) It takes on a life of its own.

 

At WHAT POINT DOES LIVING WITH THIS ISSUE IMPEL ONE OF THEM TO CHEAT?

 

I think the answer will always fall on one thing: When a potential AP enters the picture. But not before. I do not believe that a WS who has convinced him/herself s/he is cheating because of a "bad marriage" necessarily sees this. And probably a lot of people simply do NOT cheat not because they don't wish to, but because no AP presents him/herself along the months/years of being "unhappy". Some find other activities to distract them from the recognition that their marriage isnt all it was supposed to be. But others, in seeking a life outside the matrimonial home, literally bump into others like them, or simple stumble into an unintentional AP.

 

I believe it to be more like this:

BAD marriage environment. Couple continues like this for some time. ENTER potential AP. WS reasons that the marriage is so bad they got pushed into an affair.

 

I don't think a BS pushes a WS into an affair for any reason.

 

I believe a WS is DRAWN INTO an affair with the sudden presence of the AP. And I think it takes some deep honest reflection in a WS to realise that this is probably more true more of the time than the convenient blaming the BS for not providing a foundation in which not to cheat.

 

If a woman has an affair because she feels her husband is neglecting her sexually. She need only tell him: If you don't start making love to me, Ill get it elsewhere.

 

This conversation is not likely to happen, because BOTH spouses believe themselves to be in a marriage, and that as bad as it will get INFIDELITY IS NOT AN OPTION. So if a spouse does not deal with any of the issues that have been laid out on the table, or if both sweep them aside as conflict avoiders, neither of them can be blamed for not IMAGINING IN A MILLION YEARS THAT DOING THIS WILL CAUSE AN INFIDELITY.

 

It's the WS's choice to cheat. Sometimes, though, the BS makes that choice easier by neglecting their spouse, treating them poorly, or failing to work on issues when asked to do so.

Edited February 1, 2015 by fellini

[Lion Heart]

Please continue this conversation.

 

It is 7 weeks since my D Day and this is the first relationship I have remained committed to afterwards. We are in "reconciliation" and the whole thing is freaking me out.

 

I am confronted by the conversation and need to read it. Thankyou for starting this thread. I'm about to start work soon for 3 days and may not be able to cope with much else but that for 3 days but I'll be back!

 

I know I'm making progress and I know it's up to me. The marriage is probably over due to WS having far too many issues. And I'm scared.

 

Thankyou

 

Lion Heart.

[Gloria25]

Sometimes it is because someone is a bad partner but the WS should've made a different choice. While I'm aware of just how much pain an affair can cause (been there), it's always a good idea to ask yourself if you did something to push your partner to make such a bad choice, or if you were an unwitting co-conspirator. For instance, my abusive ex cheated on me. He said that he did it because in a counseling session, I said that I no longer could see how our relationship was going to work out and that I wanted a divorce. Later, we decided to give it one more shot. Within two weeks, he cheated. He said he was pissed off because he knew that I was going to leave him. He knew he was abusive and knew I wouldn't stay with him. But I now can see how I played into the situation by staying and persisting in a relationship that I knew was doomed. I'm not saying I was responsible for his affair. I'm merely saying that I had a hand in it because I knew things were bad and unfixable. In other words, I made a bad call by staying.

 

I think everyone needs to look at things in terms of how they might've played into it -- not having sex with your partner for months or years, making your partner feel trapped, remaining in a tense or argumentative relationship. If we know the relationship is bad and we persist in staying, a lot of the time this will backfire on us. If there are problems and we continually ignore them, that will backfire also.

 

About the only time I think a person has no responsibility in this situation is when they're with a serial cheater and they have no idea the person is like that. Again, I'm not saying it's their fault but as long as we play the game, if we're involved, then there was most likely some red flag somewhere that we chose to ignore.

 

Thank you....

 

Some people are dogs - so, doesn't matter how good their spouse is cuz they are gonna cheat.

 

But, some people marry someone knowing red flags were there and/or when things happened in the RL, didn't care to fix/address it.

 

Also, some people let themselves go in the marriage. They get "comfortable". They don't present themselves and/or put in the effort as if they were bf/gf and were on best behavior trying to snag that person.

 

And, some people evolve/grow in a marriage/RL - but their partner doesn't grow/evolve with them.

 

That, IMO, is why a lot of 2nd marriages fail. No one takes the time to see the role they played in the 1st marriage. They blame everyone else.

[bathtub-row]

That leaves no room for trust. The trust that no matter how bad things get you'll always have each other's backs.

 

This is exactly why people get blindsided. Don't ever kid yourself into thinking that you can fully trust another person. Especially when the relationship takes a nose-dive and stays that way long-term. Everyone has their breaking point. If you don't believe that, then you may be in for a rude awakening.