How long together, and does it make a difference?

[waterwoman]

I have read on here and elswhere that there is some sort of relationship between the length of the affair and the time it takes to recover from it and to truly reconcile. I have no doubt that is true. But I still have bad times and until a few months ago I was beginning to wonder if I would ever completely recover.

 

When H had his A we have been together 31 years (going out for 5 years, cohabiting for 6 years and then married for 20). His affair was 'only' 6 months. I felt a fool for making such a fuss about an affair that was so short and never involved plans to leave me to be with OW (I have seen texts to that effect). So I think there is another equation to be made from the length of time of the relationship pre-affair.

 

We have been together so long that we are almost two parts of the same person - doesn't mean soul mates or any such cr*p, but simply I can guess what he will say about most things, and I suspect he feels the same about me. He is the first person I want to tell about anything that happens to me. I would always ask his opinion any advice. I trusted him implicitly. It's hard to share everything with someone else for such a long time without trusting them. It never occurred to me that I shouldn't. We almost grew up together and all our most formative and significant experiences have happened when we were together and able to share and talk about them. We have supported each other and been a team that bought a house, dealt with the usual money and job worries, death and illness of parents. depression, having babies and bringing up kids.

 

A betrayal in those circumstances calls into question everything you think you know, it shakes your foundations. I am sure the huge dent to my self-esteem comes from that - the 'logic' goes that if the man who loved me so long and knew me so well, could betray me, I must be pretty worthless. It upsets me so much to see all the stories on here about middle-aged men who decide after 30 years or so that actually their wives aren't good enough anymore and the marriage is dead, and to tell their OW the same. If H had said that to his lover I would have been totally unable to stay with him. The cruelty and lack of respect would have just floored me and taken away any affection I felt for him.

[jnel921]

WW,

 

Who really knows why our WS do it. I understand. I thought I too married my soulmate. My H still feels this way after he did this to me. But I suspect he feels more love since I R and forgave him.

 

The length of time did factor into my decision. I discovered it all and confronted my H early. Although he claimed it was over and they had only slept together twice, that was still one time too many in my mind and my heart.

 

Had it been a long drawn out A I am sure there would have been more emotions involved. This was the case with my first H and I divorced him. Everyone has their own tolerance level. But then again it depends on our WS and how remorseful they truly are. If they are and they do the work then things should get better.

 

It doesn't cover up the fact that there was a temporary brain fart where they felt they needed to go out and get laid by other people. It does however make me question the extent of his love. I have always said and posted here that love brings your a$$ home. I don't care how much cookie and twigs and berries are out there...if you are with someone you say you love then you go home to that. If you don't care for it anymore then be honest and leave.

 

I respect honesty more and even though it cuts deep it hurts less that betrayal.

[cocorico]

I have read on here and elswhere that there is some sort of relationship between the length of the affair and the time it takes to recover from it and to truly reconcile. I have no doubt that is true. But I still have bad times and until a few months ago I was beginning to wonder if I would ever completely recover.

 

When H had his A we have been together 31 years (going out for 5 years, cohabiting for 6 years and then married for 20). His affair was 'only' 6 months. I felt a fool for making such a fuss about an affair that was so short and never involved plans to leave me to be with OW (I have seen texts to that effect). So I think there is another equation to be made from the length of time of the relationship pre-affair.

 

We have been together so long that we are almost two parts of the same person - doesn't mean soul mates or any such cr*p, but simply I can guess what he will say about most things, and I suspect he feels the same about me. He is the first person I want to tell about anything that happens to me. I would always ask his opinion any advice. I trusted him implicitly. It's hard to share everything with someone else for such a long time without trusting them. It never occurred to me that I shouldn't. We almost grew up together and all our most formative and significant experiences have happened when we were together and able to share and talk about them. We have supported each other and been a team that bought a house, dealt with the usual money and job worries, death and illness of parents. depression, having babies and bringing up kids.

 

A betrayal in those circumstances calls into question everything you think you know, it shakes your foundations. I am sure the huge dent to my self-esteem comes from that - the 'logic' goes that if the man who loved me so long and knew me so well, could betray me, I must be pretty worthless. It upsets me so much to see all the stories on here about middle-aged men who decide after 30 years or so that actually their wives aren't good enough anymore and the marriage is dead, and to tell their OW the same. If H had said that to his lover I would have been totally unable to stay with him. The cruelty and lack of respect would have just floored me and taken away any affection I felt for him.

 

WW I think you are conflating two very different trajectories here. My H was one of those MM who had an A after about 30 years of M, but our outcome was very different to yours. I suspect that there are very different and divergent paths that can't easily be summed up by "30 years of M". You describe a closeness, an intimacy where you both know each other so well you could finish each other's trains of thought.

 

But there are other scenarios, too. After 30 years, my H's xW *assumed* she knew him inside out - but what she "knew" was that adolescent boy she began the R with, not the man he changed and grew into - because she was so sure she "knew" she never stopped to ask, or to check, that her assumptions were still accurate. So, when he'd left and didn't go scurrying back, she was gobsmacked, and told him "I just don't know you any more" and he replied, "I don't think you ever did". Thirty years is a long time for people who didn't really have much in common to begin with, to grow very far apart.

 

I think the difference is that in the first scenario, there is closeness, intimacy, and so much shared experience that bonds you. But that, almost because of that intimacy, because you are "known so well", perhaps perversely there is a part that cries out to be wild, unknown, untamed - a part that wonders about the "path not taken", that wants to explore if only to reaffirm that the path taken was indeed the correct one. And yes, I'm sure the betrayal does feel that much worse, because of the accumulation of intimacy - but the choice your WS made, and really knew in his heart all along, was just an affirmation.

 

In the second scenario, there are decades of alienation, of divergent responses to the same experiences papered over and forced into sameness, of stifled views and silenced opinions and finally a realisation of inauthenticity when faced with an opportunity to connect with one's real essence - and then a casting off of a shell that no longer fits, if it ever did, and the growth into the self that had been suppressed for so long. Perhaps in those scenarios it is easier for a BS to accept that the "growing apart" had kept them both stuck, and they were both now facing liberation, and perhaps for some of those BS it feels like less of a betrayal - or, for others, more like my H's xW who felt doubly betrayed.

 

I think the MM who feel their BWs of 30 years "are no longer good enough" or however they express it are more likely to belong to the second group, the group who recognise that they are no longer the people their BS thinks they are / wants them to be, that they have compromised a few times too many and landed up in an alien place with an alien spouse. These WS may end up leaving the M (for the AP, or for themselves) or may land up staying and feeling trapped (possibly having further As), but those are not the WS who are able to reconcile successfully. The WS who reconcile successfully are those who recognise that the path they chose all those years ago was the correct one, that led them to where they want to be, even if they had to wonder off into a bramble patch to confirm it.

[Popsicle]

I've learned on this forum that people have different definitions and requirements of what makes a happy marriage. Whatever that definition is, you should be feeling satisfied and fulfilled and not in need of stepping outside of your M to fill a need, or plagued with doubt, worry or low self-esteem.

[Sub]

I think our time together (17 years pre-A) definitely helped us after D-Day. The question isn't so much the quantity of time, though, but the quality of it. If you get married, have kids, and then you fail to make time for yourselves while they're growing up - in effect just becoming parents instead of spouses - then I think it's harder to recover from an A. The foundation crumbles. My W and I were fortunate enough to be able to say "Remember that time we......" during all the conversations we had post D-Day. And it wasn't just times before the kid came. Not to say we stayed because of what we were. But we both knew we were capable of making new similar memories and who we wanted to make them with.

 

W

I think the MM who feel their BWs of 30 years "are no longer good enough" or however they express it are more likely to belong to the second group, the group who recognise that they are no longer the people their BS thinks they are / wants them to be, that they have compromised a few times too many and landed up in an alien place with an alien spouse.

Just based off of personal experience and what I've read here, I disagree with this. (Also, being a male and knowing about "male" behavior, from being in the locker room, so to speak.) Part of the problem is that a majority of men have no desire to understand what makes a woman tick, or the why and how. And they feel doing so emasculates them. There's a sense of entitlement, especially with men who grew up in the 60's and 70's. And let's be honest: Sexually, most of us/them can't locate a clitorus with a map.

 

I can understand in your situation, it's different, and I don't doubt that. It's great that your H found his way out of an abusive M where his W cheated on him and degraded him. But it's definitely an outlier.

[jackslife]

Sexually, most of us/them can't locate a clitorus with a map. .

 

Rubbish. You speak for yourself here and in that very generalised 'men can't don't do foreplay'. As dated a POV as saying women should stay at home and men go to work.

 

Coming back to the "I knew him for 30 years but then he did something out of character." I think that over time women get comfortable and just see their husbands not as a sexual and attractive being but like a well behaved, dopey pet dog.

 

They love them as a friend and as someone they can hold hands and cuddle with, but no longer desire them. A long term marriage can often emasculate a man. Men like to be desired, like to be sexually attractive and like great sex.

 

So when another woman (younger or not) sees him as an attractive, sexual being, she is seeing him like he sees himself and an affair often ensues.

 

When a man says "you never really knew me", he's really saying "you got what you wanted from the marriage, but no longer appreciated me really as a man."

[Sub]

Rubbish. You speak for yourself here and in that very generalised 'men can't don't do foreplay'. As dated a POV as saying women should stay at home and men go to work.

It was more a figure of speech, or a metaphor. (Though I would put money on it being true.) And like I said, it was based off of my personal experience. A lot of men like this say they do all these things for their wife. But more often than not, it's cosmetic/superficial. Guys say they're into foreplay. That doesn't mean they're actually being considerate and doing it right. IMO, the same can be said for a lot of facets of M's. You can say you help out around the house because you cleaned the bathroom. It doesn't mean the bathroom actually got clean.

 

 

Men like to be desired, like to be sexually attractive and like great sex.

I completely agree. I have this discussion with my W often. That said, I think a majority of men who have A's after 20-30 years in a marriage/R tend to ONLY think about how they want to be desired.

[Snowflower]

Coming back to the "I knew him for 30 years but then he did something out of character." I think that over time women get comfortable and just see their husbands not as a sexual and attractive being but like a well behaved, dopey pet dog.

 

They love them as a friend and as someone they can hold hands and cuddle with, but no longer desire them. A long term marriage can often emasculate a man. Men like to be desired, like to be sexually attractive and like great sex.

 

So when another woman (younger or not) sees him as an attractive, sexual being, she is seeing him like he sees himself and an affair often ensues.

 

When a man says "you never really knew me", he's really saying "you got what you wanted from the marriage, but no longer appreciated me really as a man."

 

Sadly, I have to agree with this. ^^^^

[waterwoman]

Rubbish. You speak for yourself here and in that very generalised 'men can't don't do foreplay'. As dated a POV as saying women should stay at home and men go to work.

 

Coming back to the "I knew him for 30 years but then he did something out of character." I think that over time women get comfortable and just see their husbands not as a sexual and attractive being but like a well behaved, dopey pet dog.

 

They love them as a friend and as someone they can hold hands and cuddle with, but no longer desire them. A long term marriage can often emasculate a man. Men like to be desired, like to be sexually attractive and like great sex.

 

So when another woman (younger or not) sees him as an attractive, sexual being, she is seeing him like he sees himself and an affair often ensues.

 

When a man says "you never really knew me", he's really saying "you got what you wanted from the marriage, but no longer appreciated me really as a man."

 

Don't you think something similar happens to women in marriages? We get old and are no longer quite as toothsome as a young woman. I think its the nature of a long relationship that desire and sexuality waxes and wanes. Fortunately neither of those things happened to us. I guess my libido dipped when my babies were small and when I was depressed but I have always fought against that. H never stopped desiring me. I can see the reasons for h's affair and they weren't to do with sex.

[WasOtherWoman]

Coming back to the "I knew him for 30 years but then he did something out of character." I think that over time women get comfortable and just see their husbands not as a sexual and attractive being but like a well behaved, dopey pet dog.

 

They love them as a friend and as someone they can hold hands and cuddle with, but no longer desire them. A long term marriage can often emasculate a man. Men like to be desired, like to be sexually attractive and like great sex.

 

So when another woman (younger or not) sees him as an attractive, sexual being, she is seeing him like he sees himself and an affair often ensues.

 

When a man says "you never really knew me", he's really saying "you got what you wanted from the marriage, but no longer appreciated me really as a man."

 

Yep. I try to NEVER forget this in my marriage. My husband still wants me to be his girlfriend and wants me to need him (because he loves to take care of me). Recipe for a good marriage, I believe.

 

Good reminder, jackslife, thanks for the community service announcement

[whatatangledweb]

I was married 20 years and together 22 years at the time of his affair. We had a good marriage and a very sexual one. I never saw him as a well behaved dog as someone stated. I saw him as my best friend, someone I found fun to be with and talk to and as someone I wanted sexually continually. These are things he admits to as well. He had a mid life crisis after two back to back medical scares ( as he put it " I felt old. I wanted to see if I could pick up an easy piece of ass like I could in college". That's exactly what happened)...still a cop out as far as I am concerned.

 

I believe we were able to work through it because of not only how long we had been together but how well we had always been together. If the affair had lasted for years I just don't know. But compared to the time we have been together and the time he spent with her was like a minute out of a month, not long. It also worked because he was remorseful .

[carhill]

Personally, I've seen no real patterns. One anecdote started affairing early in her M, and multiples over many years and they were still married for twenty. Another had an affair with her employer and her M lasted 20 and probably would have continued if not for her alcoholism. Another had an A about ten years in, more of a fling than a long-term A, and with an apparent revenge A by their spouse, continues at 25, though I'm still on the fence as to its health, based on the person's interactions with myself. All the rest, of the MW's who disclosed, got a D in pretty quick order , and the M's were of varying length. Overall, though, I'd opine the longer married and the more there is to 'lose' (assets/children/grandchildren/social status, etc) the more likely the M will continue, with successful reconciliation unknown to anyone but the couple. All my anecdotes are regarding MW's since no men have ever voluntarily talked with me about their affairs.

 

In my own case, my EA started about six years in and, regardless of what I might have perceived as our foundation being solid, it wasn't apparently sufficient to reconcile.

 

Overall, I think flings have a better chance of recovery than solid, long-term affairs, especially those predicated upon serious marital issues or disagreements. Some people are built for 'fun' and enjoy a dalliance here and there without ever considering not remaining married. Others simply don't want to be married to their partner anymore but remain for other reasons and fill in the gaps with other people. Then there's everything in between. No easy answers.

[oldshirt]

Rubbish. You speak for yourself here and in that very generalised 'men can't don't do foreplay'. As dated a POV as saying women should stay at home and men go to work.

 

Coming back to the "I knew him for 30 years but then he did something out of character." I think that over time women get comfortable and just see their husbands not as a sexual and attractive being but like a well behaved, dopey pet dog.

 

They love them as a friend and as someone they can hold hands and cuddle with, but no longer desire them. A long term marriage can often emasculate a man. Men like to be desired, like to be sexually attractive and like great sex.

 

So when another woman (younger or not) sees him as an attractive, sexual being, she is seeing him like he sees himself and an affair often ensues.

 

When a man says "you never really knew me", he's really saying "you got what you wanted from the marriage, but no longer appreciated me really as a man."

 

I agree also.

 

This is just my own thoughts here but I think part of this equation is women lose a lot of their sexual interests after years of marriage and motherhood and think that men's desire for sexuality declines as well (or they think that it "should" )

 

But it doesn't. Not one iota. I'm 50 years old and it may take a few more seconds and a little more tactile stimulation to get my penis erect but I am just as interested in good sex today as I was in my 20s.

 

I'm sure many women after 20-30 years of marriage would be perfectly happy to just be platonic friends, roommates and coparents, but I don't know one man that would be OK with that. Many are Browbeaten into accepting it, but I doubt if any man would wantingly chose it.

 

Assuming your partner is uninterested in sex is a very very dangerous thing for both men and women. Both men and women alike have been rocked to their core to find out that their seemingly asexual and neuter spouse has been having hot, nasty porno sex in broomclosets and motel rooms with someone from work or the gym for the past 6 months.

 

Even the most seemingly passive and sexually uninterested spouse can get turbo-charged full of passion hormones the moment some other attractive person states showing some sincere desire for them.

[waterwoman]

This thread was intended to provoke discussion around whether its harder to recover if the betrayal came after a long relationship. It's turned into, with a few honourable exceptions, a list of the things older women do wrong to deserve being cheated on. Most of revolve around having the temerity to age and not be hot to trot all the time ...

[gia37]

The man Im in love with (he has been married 30 yrs and is in his 50ies) ... I guess what he wants most from me is emotional closeness /intimacy/tenderness. We have not been physically intimate, but the EA has been going on for 2 yrs. But of course he enjoys very much that I find him attractive (I can see it).

Edited September 17, 2014 by gia37

[jackslife]

Threads are open forums and often go off on different tangents. It's what often makes them so interesting...

[LivingWaterPlease]

Rubbish. You speak for yourself here and in that very generalised 'men can't don't do foreplay'. As dated a POV as saying women should stay at home and men go to work.

 

Agree ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^