Even though it's not physical infidelity, it still hurts.

[Chi]

Hi - I'm new here.

 

I joined because I'd like to be able to talk with others about my wife's online affair. I can't talk to any of our friends because they're all mutual and it's all being kept hush-hush while we're in couple's therapy. It's eating me up not being able to talk about it.

 

My wife and I have been together for 10 years; married for 5.

 

For most of my life I've dealt with anxiety and only in the past year have I gotten real treatment for it. It was a source of conflict for us and I knew I had to do something. I'm on anti-depressants and seeing an individual therapist regularly. She's put up with a lot from my moods and irritability.

 

I started noticing my wife's different online behavior in June. Her interactions with her online friends were becoming more secretive and she had been staying up all hours of the night since she had been laid-off several months earlier. I started snooping in her email and recording what was going on around the house while I was away at work. I learned that this was a very close relationship and she was getting-off with him. You see, she has a particular fetish and so does he. They met on a site dedicated to the fetish they share.

 

I've always known about her fetish and willingly indulged her - it's kinda fun. But, I found out that he is far my superior in his ability to turn her on. Without giving it away (because I promised her I never would), the best analogy I can use is the movie "A Fish Called Wanda". Jamie Lee Curtis is real into hearing foreign languages. Kevin Kline fakes his way through Italian, but then she meets John Cleese who speaks fluent Russian and there's just no comparison.

 

So, we had the fights, we started couples therapy and have been going for a few months. She insists on keeping "Fluent in Russian" as a friend. She's said as much in therapy and will not even disclose to the Dr. why she won't give up this one friend. I'm pretty sure it's the sexual aspect. I want to make our marriage work, but I can't be intimate with her because I get caught up in thinking that she probably wishes I was "Fluent in Russian".

 

In our last session, I fired a shot across the bow. I told her - "you are not my property; I will never tell you what you can or cannot do, but if you continue this "friendship" it will seriously slow-down and undermine our progress in therapy". She won't budge.

 

Is it over? Do I need to escalate it to the point of separation? I know if I push too hard she'll just get even more sneaky about hiding it and then I'll still be left wondering. She insists she doesn't want to leave me. When I bugged our office after our first argument about this, I heard her tell him that she lied to me to smooth things over. When I confronted her on this, she said she was lying to him because she wants to keep him hanging on - she likes what he does for her.

 

Anybody been through anything like this? Any advice you can share?

[Ody]

When I bugged our office after our first argument about this, I heard her tell him that she lied to me to smooth things over. When I confronted her on this, she said she was lying to him because she wants to keep him hanging on - she likes what he does for her.

 

Anybody been through anything like this? Any advice you can share?

 

Given the bold above, I doubt that her virtual infidelity is the only extremely serious problem in your relationship, although it may or may not be the worst. There are probably even deeper trust issues. Bugging your own office is not a good sign. Are you confronting the other problems as well? Neither of you is being completely honest in your therapy, and you're not even being particularly forthcoming here, anonymous and online.

 

How into this fetish is your wife? Is it something she feels very strongly and which is very rare, or is it something she really should be able to put aside?

[datura_noir]

Many women (me included) hold a fantasy in their head when it comes to "the perfect man". They may go on and marry or become intimately involved with others, but the "fantasy" aspect remains. These women usually, through counseling, come to terms with the reality of such fleeting thoughts. Or, through a real-life event such as discovery of their fantasy by a spouse, come head-to-head with the fantasy vs. real life aspect, and finally grow up.

 

Or they leave to pursue the fantasy.

 

You can only take care of yourself at the moment, and any children you have. I hope all of this works out for you.

[Chi]

I've been very open in therapy about the snooping. I only escalated to recording what went on in our office once a series of suspicions had been confirmed. The recording was the last of the snooping and once therapy began a ground-rule was laid that there will be no more of it.

 

If it seems like I'm not being forthcoming here, it is only for the sake of brevity. Few people would want to read page after page of a single post. I'll clarify any questions you have.

 

She is VERY into this fetish. I am willing to say that it is, in fact, a true fetish and not just something she likes occasionally. It's more than just a fantasy for her - her sexual gratification revolves around it.

 

Thanks, datura. Fortunately we have no kids. I've never really wanted kids, but could probably been persuaded to have them until this happened. I come from divorced parents myself and vowed many years ago to never put a kid through what I went through.

[JaneInVegas]

Why would you want to stay with someone who thinks a really great fetish partner is so much more important to her than her husband who is by her side?

 

Don't even worry about the snooping you've done. It wasn't the greatest thing, but you uncovered some important truths she otherwise wouldn't have been forthcoming about. There are plenty of people on this board who bash those who snoop, but cheaters aren't exactly known for their stellar qualities of truthfulness.

 

A friend of mine says, "You know how you can tell when a cheater is lying? Their lips are moving." Snooping eliminates all doubt.

[seibert253]

Why would you want to stay with someone who thinks a really great fetish partner is so much more important to her than her husband who is by her side?

 

Don't even worry about the snooping you've done. It wasn't the greatest thing, but you uncovered some important truths she otherwise wouldn't have been forthcoming about. There are plenty of people on this board who bash those who snoop, but cheaters aren't exactly known for their stellar qualities of truthfulness.

 

A friend of mine says, "You know how you can tell when a cheater is lying? Their lips are moving." Snooping eliminates all doubt.

 

^^^^^

This

 

You wife is very selfish. Her needs trumps everything else. Can you live with being second fiddle? Doesn't sound like it, and you do not deserve it.

 

You fired a shot across the bow, now put one dead center.

Ultimatum time.

 

Tell her she has two choices:

1. End all contact with "fluent in Russian" and give 100% to fixing your marriage

2. She can move out and you will D her.

 

That's it, nothing more, nothing less.

[whichwayisup]

She insists on keeping "Fluent in Russian" as a friend.

 

Then there's no point in wasting your money on couples therapy if she doesn't want to give him up. You continue to go on your own.

 

She needs to suffer consquences of her actions and choices. Either she completely ends it with the OM, continues counselling with you, or she moves out, you two separate with the intention of divorce. She CANNOT hang onto this OM and stay married to you..Life just doesn't work that way and it's NOT fair to you, at all.

 

Sorry you're hurting and I know this isn't easy, but you have to stand up to her and demand that she makes a choice NOW. If she can't choose, you choose for her. Tell her to pack her suitcase and get out of the house.

[Chi]

I think I will issue the ultimatum. I know she'll agree to working on the marriage because she can't afford her own place. She left the IT field after being laid-off to chase a lower paying but more enjoyable retail job part-time. If that's how it goes down, ill worry about her continuing to play me so she'll have a place to live.

 

I guess there is no way to defend against that is there? Although... she is mortified at the thought of her fetish being found out by family and friends. Would I be a huge dick if hung that over her head?

[whichwayisup]

You can expose the A to your family, but no need to talk about the fetish. Telling those closest to you about the A will be damage enough..

 

Is this OM married? If so, think about finding his spouse and talking to her.

[imagine]

Never make an ultimatum. Set boundaries.

 

If these are broken. Act. Respond. Expose. And DO NOT tell them the consequences before hand.

 

Right now your wife is breaking her marriage vow to be with you and NOT be diverted by other men. She is not going to listen to the vow at this time. Consequences must follow before she pays attention.

 

She needs to respond to you -without moods. Start there!

Edited November 17, 2009 by imagine

[Ody]

Would I be a huge dick if hung that over her head?

 

Yes and more importantly it would not improve the situation.

 

If this is how you two are approaching things - financial manipulation, shame - I still think there are other problems, and you should probably get out of the situation. It's hard to leave behind so much time though. Good luck.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I told her - "you are not my property; I will never tell you what you can or cannot do, but if you continue this "friendship" it will seriously slow-down and undermine our progress in therapy".

 

I'm sure she thought in her mind... "um, so?"

 

What does she have to lose? Ultimatums only work if you present them with some real consequences that represent a degree of loss that will get their attention.

 

A better and more effective ultimatum would go

 

I told her - "you are not my property; I will never tell you what you can or cannot do, but if you continue this "friendship" I will divorce you.

 

You have to mean it though, and be willing to follow through.

[Church Bells]

Never make an ultimatum. Set boundaries.

 

I'm sorry, but this is just Marriage Builders word parsing ... ULTIMATUMS vs. BOUNDARIES ... they are the same. Marriage Builders has some good points, but its prime objective is to increase revenue through books sales, counselling fees, and weekend getaways more than actually helping people deal with the real world issues of infidelity.

 

Whether you say ... "its either the fetish or our marrige, you make the call" or "I will not stay in a marriage where my spouse gets sexual satisfaction from another" ... they're just two sides of the SAME coin.

 

Its time for the OP to draw his line in the sand however HE feels more comfortable delivering the message. A strong message delivered with confidence and self respect will do more good than the particular "words" used.

[imagine]

I thought the difference between ultimatum and boundary was pretty clear. The ultimatum spells out the consequence. The boundary does not.

 

The ultimatum is a threat. A boundary expresses your feelings. The ultimatum has consequences which the WS can play down before the event. Action from the damage boundary is a surprise.

 

The essential ingredient is that the boundary is less martial and gives opportunity to continue in discussion before a break in communication. To me there is greater strength in the resolving a boundary transgression.

[Blindsidedagainalive]

This is a very sad predicament.

Not knowing what 'fetish' your wife has, but HER fetish should not define YOUR sex life together.

 

Let's say rather than a fetish, your wife wanted sex with a better lover....a bigger penis.....an alaskan man....uh ,...um wanted you to dress like a woman.....uh....wanted you to smack the crap out of her.

 

 

It doesn't matter.....what if YOUR fetish was to have sex with multiple asian woman.....um....do you seek it out?

 

She is a selfish woman.

She needs to stop this AT ONCE with the OM or you will divorce her .....RIGHT!

[dprtman09]

Why would you want to stay with someone who thinks a really great fetish partner is so much more important to her than her husband who is by her side?

 

Don't even worry about the snooping you've done. It wasn't the greatest thing, but you uncovered some important truths she otherwise wouldn't have been forthcoming about. There are plenty of people on this board who bash those who snoop, but cheaters aren't exactly known for their stellar qualities of truthfulness.

 

A friend of mine says, "You know how you can tell when a cheater is lying? Their lips are moving." Snooping eliminates all doubt.

 

OH YES! My W was really ***sed whenever I told her that I had tripped over evidence of her infidelity. After all, she was entitled to her privacy and all that rubbish. A cheating spouse is NOT entitled to privacy. They are lieing and need to be caught before you need boots to wade through it all. It's awfully hard to cover one's tracks nowadays, so cheaters can expect to have to own up.