Stonewalling

[Danika]

Generally my relationship with my live-in bf is good and feels healthy.

 

However, when we fight, it feels unbalanced and unhealthy. My bf is really conflict avoidant and will often stonewall me when we are fighting. As someone who wants to solve issues right away and move on, not just sweep them under the rug and move on (as I feel he does), this makes me very upset and only escalates things further as I try to get through to him. It makes me feel like he has all of the control when we argue.

 

Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with someone who does this so that I am not reinforcing his behaviour? I'd really like to change our pattern.

[somanymistakes]

It kind of depends on why and how he does it.

 

I often go quiet a bit when in an argument, because I'm both conflict-avoidant and prone to really extreme emotions. I don't want to have a huge screaming fight (which won't solve anything anyway, because I'll be too worked up to say what I mean) so I may need to withdraw for a while in order to get myself under control. When I feel more calm I can come back to the subject.

 

That doesn' tmean three weeks later, but that may mean 'give me half an hour then calmly ask if we can talk'

[BettyDraper]

Can you give an example of stonewalling?

[sdraw108]

Perhaps this is stating the obvious, but just in case, have a discussion with him during a time when you're not arguing, and that means not even in the near aftermath of an argument.

 

When the last argument is long since forgotten, and you're having a normal moment with him, approach him calmly and say there's something you'd like to talk about. Focus on the fact that you believe the problem is fixable rather than the fact that you're really bothered by the problem, and that as a loving couple who are working as a team, you believe that a compromise can be reached and that you will both be happier for it.

 

Note that I said compromise. It's usually easier to resolve something when both sides feel like the other gave up some of their position. In this case, that means you maybe being a little calmer and less confrontational, and him being a little more open and communicative.

 

If he agrees then the next time you're arguing, gently remind him that you'd like to try the new approach.

[d0nnivain]

Not every issue has to be discussed to death. If you fight & apologize, sometimes it just needs to be over.

 

We have all become arm chair psychologists in modern society. When it comes to the petty stuff do you really need to hash out whether somebody left the cap off the toothpaste because they weren't breast fed enough as a child? I'm being facetious but I think you get my point.

[Trail Blazer]

Not every issue has to be discussed to death. If you fight & apologize, sometimes it just needs to be over.

 

We have all become arm chair psychologists in modern society. When it comes to the petty stuff do you really need to hash out whether somebody left the cap off the toothpaste because they weren't breast fed enough as a child? I'm being facetious but I think you get my point.

Agreed. But all things being equal it is still better to discuss in a respectful manner rather than fight over even the most trifling issues. In an ideal world everyone has the common sense to only worry about things worth worrying about. Unfortunately when dealing with human beings their perceptions are based on how their personal experiences have shaped them. What is trivial to one person is very important to another.

 

I think modern society has developed this propensity to overthink and discuss issues in line with the better understanding of mental health and the left's push for tolerance and acceptance. While left ideology might be supressed somewhat in this Trump-era USA, I think the core values of tolerance and acceptance permeating through society haven't been thwarted.

 

I personally would prefer to put all issues on the table, however small they may be. I'm aware of that discussing anything and everything promotes people overanalyzing but I would still rather be seen as an open and fair person who is fair, balanced and willing to listen to all sides and aspects. It's how I would treat a spouse and also how I would expect to be treated.

[d0nnivain]

I personally would prefer to put all issues on the table, however small they may be. I'm aware of that discussing anything and everything promotes people overanalyzing but I would still rather be seen as an open and fair person who is fair, balanced and willing to listen to all sides and aspects. It's how I would treat a spouse and also how I would expect to be treated.

 

That is a mature way of handling it. But it's not how OP's BF wants to handle things.

 

If he can't / won't talk about things, she's at a bit of a loss.

 

Trying to discuss an issue later when every one is calm is the best approach but even then, some people don't want to talk about it.

 

For example, two years ago on Christmas I had a terrible fight with my cousin. She's a diagnosed border-line personality disorder with narcissistic features. We'd all be drinking. She was being her usual self absorbed drama queen self which left my husband literally out in the cold on a freezing night trying to juggle packages in an effort to get my cousin home safely. As DH got increasingly angry at the situation, I got mad at my cousin for ruining DH's Christmas. I was also still seething about some crap she had pulled the year before. Anyway, it came to a head, I screamed. She screamed back. She got in my face. I told her to go away & leave me alone. She continued to pester me as I was trying to go to bed. It got ugly. There is no sense talking about it. She's never going to change. My only option has been to never again drink around her & I now chose to spend holidays anywhere she is not (which is hard because she, her parents & her brother are literally my only living family). Talking fixes nothing in that situation so I don't feel like wasting my breath. We communicate through FB & by text but we haven't spoken a word in 2 years.

[BarbedFenceRider]

I had the issue with my wife where she would just say "forget about it then..." It used to bother the **** out of me.lol I would demand to discuss the problem at hand and to further my point by raising my voice. (I sometimes do this today, though I'm working on it!) I also noticed that I would cut her off when she would not "see things my way" and try to re-route the conversation. I would then claim she was not communicating with me and get even more annoyed.

Finally, I was able to understand that with some minor verbal judo, I could get her to open up and discuss most situations easily. But! And a BIG BUT... I had to do some tweaking on my side as well. (Learning to argue effectively is a skill that has to be learned.) I needed to curb my voice. Being a very effective type 1 personality, I am able to project my voice into concert levels. I don't mean to be a screamer, just loud and boomy. Think: "drill sergeant" ! I had to tame my voice controls and learn to listen. And that is a big one. Listening and not cutting people off while they are speaking is huge. It takes a lot of practice but it can be done.

By using effective communication skills and alongside verbal judo, I was able to talk to my wife and usually stop fights before they begin. Hope this helps. Communicating well also is great in professional settings. Job interviews, employee review and other things...

[Danika]

Thanks for the replies. I will respond to each of you individually.

 

It kind of depends on why and how he does it.

 

I often go quiet a bit when in an argument, because I'm both conflict-avoidant and prone to really extreme emotions. I don't want to have a huge screaming fight (which won't solve anything anyway, because I'll be too worked up to say what I mean) so I may need to withdraw for a while in order to get myself under control. When I feel more calm I can come back to the subject.

 

That doesn't mean three weeks later, but that may mean 'give me half an hour then calmly ask if we can talk'

 

I'm not sure why he does it. He comes off as angry though. He says he has gotten better though and doesn't feel the same anger as he used to when we talked about relationship issues.

 

Can you give an example of stonewalling?

He'll be generally unresponsive and seem disengaged. He'll give me one word answers or say sarcastic things like "whatever you say" "everything is all my fault" "yup, that must be the case" while looking at me with a blank look. It's not always like this, but it's enough that I feel unsafe to bring anything up.

 

 

Perhaps this is stating the obvious, but just in case, have a discussion with him during a time when you're not arguing, and that means not even in the near aftermath of an argument.

 

When the last argument is long since forgotten, and you're having a normal moment with him, approach him calmly and say there's something you'd like to talk about. Focus on the fact that you believe the problem is fixable rather than the fact that you're really bothered by the problem, and that as a loving couple who are working as a team, you believe that a compromise can be reached and that you will both be happier for it.

 

Note that I said compromise. It's usually easier to resolve something when both sides feel like the other gave up some of their position. In this case, that means you maybe being a little calmer and less confrontational, and him being a little more open and communicative.

 

If he agrees then the next time you're arguing, gently remind him that you'd like to try the new approach.

 

This is good advice, thanks. I do try to talk to him when we are calm and generally get a better response then.

 

 

Not every issue has to be discussed to death. If you fight & apologize, sometimes it just needs to be over.

 

We have all become arm chair psychologists in modern society. When it comes to the petty stuff do you really need to hash out whether somebody left the cap off the toothpaste because they weren't breast fed enough as a child? I'm being facetious but I think you get my point.

 

Sometimes we argue about petty things, and it's not those things I need to discuss to death. The fight always turns into me being upset with how rude and dismissive he is to me. I think that I need to communicate more with my actions rather than words. So when he is dismissive and it hurts me, I shouldn't try to smooth things over so fast, because there aren't really any consequences for his actions.

 

Agreed. But all things being equal it is still better to discuss in a respectful manner rather than fight over even the most trifling issues.

 

I personally would prefer to put all issues on the table, however small they may be. I'm aware of that discussing anything and everything promotes people overanalyzing but I would still rather be seen as an open and fair person who is fair, balanced and willing to listen to all sides and aspects. It's how I would treat a spouse and also how I would expect to be treated.

 

I am the same way. I would love if he would tell me what he would like me/us to improve too so I don't feel like it's my job to bring up issues and make the relationship better. But obviously if he'd rather not discuss (at least not frequently), I need to find a way to communicate without words.

 

I had the issue with my wife where she would just say "forget about it then..." It used to bother the **** out of me.lol I would demand to discuss the problem at hand and to further my point by raising my voice. (I sometimes do this today, though I'm working on it!) I also noticed that I would cut her off when she would not "see things my way" and try to re-route the conversation. I would then claim she was not communicating with me and get even more annoyed.

Finally, I was able to understand that with some minor verbal judo, I could get her to open up and discuss most situations easily. But! And a BIG BUT... I had to do some tweaking on my side as well. (Learning to argue effectively is a skill that has to be learned.) I needed to curb my voice. Being a very effective type 1 personality, I am able to project my voice into concert levels. I don't mean to be a screamer, just loud and boomy. Think: "drill sergeant" ! I had to tame my voice controls and learn to listen. And that is a big one. Listening and not cutting people off while they are speaking is huge. It takes a lot of practice but it can be done.

By using effective communication skills and alongside verbal judo, I was able to talk to my wife and usually stop fights before they begin. Hope this helps. Communicating well also is great in professional settings. Job interviews, employee review and other things...

 

You're right, I'm sure I could improve at listening too. It's just hard when he voices his disagreement in a sarcastic way. I don't know how to handle that. I've told him many times that being sarcastic when we are fighting helps no one and is really immature.

[elaine567]

You're right, I'm sure I could improve at listening too. It's just hard when he voices his disagreement in a sarcastic way. I don't know how to handle that. I've told him many times that being sarcastic when we are fighting helps no one and is really immature.

 

But it tends to work, it helps him, so he keeps on doing it, same with stonewalling.

He puts you on the back foot and he wins... he is thus controls the situation.

He shuts you down and you are then unwilling to bring it up again as it causes a fight...

 

He thinks that it is all resolved and "sorted" and you are left seething...

[Danika]

But it tends to work, it helps him, so he keeps on doing it, same with stonewalling.

He puts you on the back foot and he wins... he is thus controls the situation.

He shuts you down and you are then unwilling to bring it up again as it causes a fight...

 

He thinks that it is all resolved and "sorted" and you are left seething...

 

It seems so illogical to me because all it does is turn what could be a calm conversation into a fight rather than curtail the "drama" he is avoiding. Plus it makes me push harder so it's not like I just drop it. But yes, I do feel scared to bring things up, but eventually I do.

 

I know a big part of the issue is that I get mad at him for not trying to resolve things with me right away and just say sorry for being snarky. When he really stonewalls me, I try to push for a resolution just so I can sleep.

 

My male friend told me that I should end the convo when he is being rude. I'm not really sure how to say this part. Any suggestions?

 

He also suggests that rather than try to resolve things, when I feel like I have been disrespected/treatly poorly that I should be less available and let him come to me to smooth things over and only then tell him what is wrong. That if he really cares about the relationship, he will do this.

[elaine567]

Stonewalling can be due to wanting to avoid a sensitive subject but sometimes it is about wanting to "punish" the victim and assert control.

 

Aggressive vs. Defensive Stone Walls

In aggressive stonewalling, the stonewaller knows that the silence, cold shoulder, and emotional isolation hurt his partner. He stonewalls to gain leverage or power. This is a common tactic in battering relationships, in which the more powerful partner systematically controls or dominates the less powerful one.

In defensive stonewalling, conflict seems overwhelming to the stonewallers. It seems that their only choice is to shut it out (stonewall) or crush it with aggression. So shutting it out seems the better of the two. Of course, treatment teaches them that there are other choices, such as emotion regulation, engagement, and connection.

[BarbedFenceRider]

 

There you go... It should start you on the path a little clearer.

[basil67]

To play Devil's advocate.....

 

How often are you raising issues? And what type of issues are you raising with him? Can you give some recent examples and also tell us what words you would have used when raising the topic?

 

You do want to rule out that a) you're not raising issues which really aren't that important and b) the possibility that your wording could be putting him on the defensive. I can help further with this if it appears that this is an issue.

 

For instance: "You never help in the kitchen" will elicit a very different response to "I'm feeling very overwhelmed by the mess in the kitchen each night after dinner"

[hestheone66]

The sarcasm you cited made me wonder whether he may just be an a__hole..

[basil67]

I personally would prefer to put all issues on the table, however small they may be. I'm aware of that discussing anything and everything promotes people overanalyzing but I would still rather be seen as an open and fair person who is fair, balanced and willing to listen to all sides and aspects. It's how I would treat a spouse and also how I would expect to be treated.

 

I am NOT disagreeing with Trail Blazer because they are clearly doing what's right for their own relationship.

 

However, my partner and I are the complete opposite to TB. We believe in not sweating the small stuff.....and we save discussions for the big issues. Everyone does annoying small stuff, so it's easier to just accept it and not create problems out of it.

 

My point is that Trail Blazer's approach works for them and my approach works for me. But put TB and I together and we'd be a disaster even though neither of us is wrong. It's why I was asking about what kinds of things you want to discuss with him. Is it all stuff or just the important stuff?

[Danika]

I am NOT disagreeing with Trail Blazer because they are clearly doing what's right for their own relationship.

 

However, my partner and I are the complete opposite to TB. We believe in not sweating the small stuff.....and we save discussions for the big issues. Everyone does annoying small stuff, so it's easier to just accept it and not create problems out of it.

 

My point is that Trail Blazer's approach works for them and my approach works for me. But put TB and I together and we'd be a disaster even though neither of us is wrong. It's why I was asking about what kinds of things you want to discuss with him. Is it all stuff or just the important stuff?

 

I am NOT disagreeing with Trail Blazer because they are clearly doing what's right for their own relationship.

 

However, my partner and I are the complete opposite to TB. We believe in not sweating the small stuff.....and we save discussions for the big issues. Everyone does annoying small stuff, so it's easier to just accept it and not create problems out of it.

 

My point is that Trail Blazer's approach works for them and my approach works for me. But put TB and I together and we'd be a disaster even though neither of us is wrong. It's why I was asking about what kinds of things you want to discuss with him. Is it all stuff or just the important stuff?

 

It's a fair point and I should focus on the big stuff. The stuff I usually bring up is sharing my needs - like saying I haven't felt as connected lately because there hasn't been much romance.

 

The more I think about it, I think he's just taking me for granted, and rather than talk about it, I need to take action... as in stop focusing on the relationship and just focus on my own life.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Danika

[basil67]

It's a fair point and I should focus on the big stuff. The stuff I usually bring up is sharing my needs - like saying I haven't felt as connected lately because there hasn't been much romance.

 

The more I think about it, I think he's just taking me for granted, and rather than talk about it, I need to take action... as in stop focusing on the relationship and just focus on my own life.

 

So rather than raising the lack of romance and connection as a negative, why not plan something lovely and comment about how you'd really appreciate if the two of you did this type of thing more often. Doing it this way would give him no space for doing his standard reaction.

 

Where possible try to use positives instead of negatives when talking about your needs. "I would enjoy doing more of X" is far more likely to get a positive result than "I feel bad because there hasn't been much romance". Of course, if they still don't get it even if you use positives, then you have a pretty big disconnect on your hands...and it's probably time to walk away.

 

Regarding the romance and disconnect, I recall having a similar outlook with my ex husband. Note the word ex. I used to want the odd bunch of flowers or similar. I couldn't really put my finger on it, but the word 'romance' used to pop up. Fast forward to my second husband who is the most unromantic guy in the world. But despite that, I'm really content. It turned out that it wasn't so much the romance that I needed, but to feel loved and appreciated and important to him.

[Danika]

So rather than raising the lack of romance and connection as a negative, why not plan something lovely and comment about how you'd really appreciate if the two of you did this type of thing more often. Doing it this way would give him no space for doing his standard reaction.

 

Where possible try to use positives instead of negatives when talking about your needs. "I would enjoy doing more of X" is far more likely to get a positive result than "I feel bad because there hasn't been much romance". Of course, if they still don't get it even if you use positives, then you have a pretty big disconnect on your hands...and it's probably time to walk away.

 

Regarding the romance and disconnect, I recall having a similar outlook with my ex husband. Note the word ex. I used to want the odd bunch of flowers or similar. I couldn't really put my finger on it, but the word 'romance' used to pop up. Fast forward to my second husband who is the most unromantic guy in the world. But despite that, I'm really content. It turned out that it wasn't so much the romance that I needed, but to feel loved and appreciated and important to him.

 

I'm reluctant to plan something because 1) lately I feel like I've been the one making the plans. We just end up hanging out together since we live together. If I mention there is an event I want to go to, he will take me, but the planned dates initiated by him have stopped recently. 2) I'm kinda hurt by the way he shut me out the other night when I tried to connect with him, so I don't really feel like putting much effort into spending time together right now anyway.

 

In the future, I will try to phrase things more positively and see how that works. For now, I am going to stop saying things altogether and just focus on me. I think I've been a bit too dependent on him lately.

 

That's interesting that romance wasn't really the issue for you. I think I am a really romantic person and it makes me feel connected and attracted to someone. Otherwise it feels like friendship to me.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Danika

[Trail Blazer]

That is a mature way of handling it. But it's not how OP's BF wants to handle things.

 

If he can't / won't talk about things, she's at a bit of a loss.

 

Trying to discuss an issue later when every one is calm is the best approach but even then, some people don't want to talk about it.

 

For example, two years ago on Christmas I had a terrible fight with my cousin. She's a diagnosed border-line personality disorder with narcissistic features. We'd all be drinking. She was being her usual self absorbed drama queen self which left my husband literally out in the cold on a freezing night trying to juggle packages in an effort to get my cousin home safely. As DH got increasingly angry at the situation, I got mad at my cousin for ruining DH's Christmas. I was also still seething about some crap she had pulled the year before. Anyway, it came to a head, I screamed. She screamed back. She got in my face. I told her to go away & leave me alone. She continued to pester me as I was trying to go to bed. It got ugly. There is no sense talking about it. She's never going to change. My only option has been to never again drink around her & I now chose to spend holidays anywhere she is not (which is hard because she, her parents & her brother are literally my only living family). Talking fixes nothing in that situation so I don't feel like wasting my breath. We communicate through FB & by text but we haven't spoken a word in 2 years.

 

There are people who stonewall and then there are people who are simply a lost cause. My opinion is based on people who you can actually work with. In the case of your cousin, she is a lost cause because of her psychological disorders. She sounds like a toxic person who you should avoid at all costs. I'm sure that's how you see her too.

 

My point was that communication being a two-way street means that, assuming both parties are willing to meet half way, you are going to see more cases of issues being brought up. If someone's partner is not willing to engage in discussion, less will be discussed, to the detriment of the relationships. Of course there's the cases where somone will stonewall because their SO continually rehashes the same argument time and again.

 

It sounds like the OP genuinely wants to connect emotionally to her partner but, for whatever reason, he is stonewalling. Some people stonewall as a mechanism to ensure less responsibility is put onto them. "Out of sight, oit of mind" or "ignorance is bliss" rings true. Many men, including sometimes myself, are guilty of not so much stonewalling, but tuning out to their partner because "woman don't shut up".

 

I suppose that stonewalling, as opposed to just tuning out every now and again, is similar to checking out emotionally. It's a deliberate act to disengage in aspects of the relationship. Comminication being the most important aspect of a relationship and key to its survival, when people choose to cut lines of communication then they are willfully checking out of the relationship emotionally.

[Trail Blazer]

I am NOT disagreeing with Trail Blazer because they are clearly doing what's right for their own relationship.

 

However, my partner and I are the complete opposite to TB. We believe in not sweating the small stuff.....and we save discussions for the big issues. Everyone does annoying small stuff, so it's easier to just accept it and not create problems out of it.

 

My point is that Trail Blazer's approach works for them and my approach works for me. But put TB and I together and we'd be a disaster even though neither of us is wrong. It's why I was asking about what kinds of things you want to discuss with him. Is it all stuff or just the important stuff?

To be honest my marriage isn't really working. But I've learned that if I have any hope of salvaging my marriage then I have to be open and willing to listen to anuthing and everything. I can diagree with it afterwards, but I just know that if I don't engage when my wife has an issue, I surely couldn't expect her to do the same if I have an issue I want to being up.

 

Our problems aren't about a lack of communication. Our problems are about not being on the same wavelength. Eventually I can see one of us deciding the passively withdraw as we inevitably realize we're not suited to one another. But at least when that day comes I cannot be accused of not fighting and exhausting every avenue in order to salvage the relationship.

 

Had I withdrawn ealier, I'd die wondering if there was something else I could have done. I'd always wonder if, had I just been willing to listen one more time, or not undermined the bridge of communication by prematurely withdrawing, the unhappiness I feel could have been communicated and dealt with. So, for myself and I think for my wife, we have to hash out everything and anything in order to know we tried everything.

[Danika]

My point was that communication being a two-way street means that, assuming both parties are willing to meet half way, you are going to see more cases of issues being brought up. If someone's partner is not willing to engage in discussion, less will be discussed, to the detriment of the relationships. Of course there's the cases where somone will stonewall because their SO continually rehashes the same argument time and again.

 

It sounds like the OP genuinely wants to connect emotionally to her partner but, for whatever reason, he is stonewalling. Some people stonewall as a mechanism to ensure less responsibility is put onto them. "Out of sight, oit of mind" or "ignorance is bliss" rings true. Many men, including sometimes myself, are guilty of not so much stonewalling, but tuning out to their partner because "woman don't shut up".

 

I suppose that stonewalling, as opposed to just tuning out every now and again, is similar to checking out emotionally. It's a deliberate act to disengage in aspects of the relationship. Comminication being the most important aspect of a relationship and key to its survival, when people choose to cut lines of communication then they are willfully checking out of the relationship emotionally.

 

I do want to connect emotionally. I've been feeling emotionally distant lately, and I tried to tell him how to bring me closer.

 

Obviously something has to change. Right now all I feel is distant but I'm not going to talk about it.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Danika

[travelbug1996]

Passive aggressive forms of communication like stonewalling and the silent treatment are a total deal breaker for me. If a person is not mature enough to listen and give honest dialogue about an issue that bothers their partner they shouldn't be in a relationship.

 

I broke up with a passive aggressive since its important to me to have a partner who genuinely cares about my thoughts, ideas, wants, feelings, needs and desires.

 

That's who I am and that's what I need. I won't settle for less. People need to grow up.

[Buriall]

Passive aggressive forms of communication like stonewalling and the silent treatment are a total deal breaker for me. If a person is not mature enough to listen and give honest dialogue about an issue that bothers their partner they shouldn't be in a relationship.

 

I broke up with a passive aggressive since its important to me to have a partner who genuinely cares about my thoughts, ideas, wants, feelings, needs and desires.

 

That's who I am and that's what I need. I won't settle for less. People need to grow up.

 

I completely agree with you.. This is very important, must have in every relationship!!!

[Danika]

Passive aggressive forms of communication like stonewalling and the silent treatment are a total deal breaker for me. If a person is not mature enough to listen and give honest dialogue about an issue that bothers their partner they shouldn't be in a relationship.

 

I broke up with a passive aggressive since its important to me to have a partner who genuinely cares about my thoughts, ideas, wants, feelings, needs and desires.

 

That's who I am and that's what I need. I won't settle for less. People need to grow up.

 

If he was always like that I don't think I could handle it. We've had some good convos lately where I think he has been really supportive, as long as I don't bring anything up right before bed.

 

I'm having a lot of anxiety lately and it's making it really difficult to see things clearly. I'm having so many doubts, and I'm both distancing myself and looking to him for reassurance and it's probably making it worse. I feel like I can't be myself and the chasm between us is widening.

 

I don't know what to do anymore.