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another 2 years... and no significant progress


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Old 14th September 2017, 1:00 PM   #1
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Unhappy another 2 years... and no significant progress

This is a follow on to the thread I created in 2015
see : Are these limitations reasonable, 2 years after affair?

I am so miserable and time is ticking on... we are getting older... since my previous postings, there have been discussions virtually every day. Lots of anger from my OH, almost on a daily basis, and what seems like more and more restrictions as to what I can / cannot do.

She believes I have Asperger disease, which accounts for my lack of empathy. She has been trying to 'train' me out of those behaviours, but it seems it's difficult to teach an old dog new tricks! I feel I have been trying so hard to change my behaviour and be more aware, empathetic and expressive, but it seems it is hard to do everything 100% correctly all the time.

In the meantime, I feel I am severely restricted by what she thinks is reasonable for me to do. Hence I would appreciate other's views as to whether these restrictions are reasonable, given my affair 4.5 years ago. The sort of things I am referring to mostly centre around me not being in a position to see other females, as they are invariable 'show-off sluts flaunting their sexuality. By other females, this includes people in real life, pictures on the Internet, including (believe it or not), cartoon images of females in those pop-up 'can I help you' web assistants.

So, limitations such as:-

- Avoiding browsing / buying anything on the Internet, unless she is present (and preferable in control of the mouse)... with the exception of critical business searches if she is out (but then I have to keep links to the sites, so she can check them out later). e.g. She is not happy with me going to (say) Amazon, because on the front page there may be pictures of slutty singers, film stars or women promoting clothes.
- Not going to shops or towns. She has categorically stated that there is no way she would let me go to a supermarket, DIY or department store again.
- Avoiding having any 'sexist' material in the house. This means that on the odd occasion when she buys me a Golf magazine (as I am not allowed to go to the newsagent), she will 'edit' it and tear out pages with women on it where you can see some thigh or the shape of a breast under a top.
- Letting her listen to any business voice messages we receive, in case there is a 'female' voice on the message. (and, I just remembered a few weeks ago she told me not to listen to a message or "I'll wring your f**king neck")!
- Not letting me look at the wedding photos of my daughter's wedding as there were so many "ghastly females showing off" (which there're weren't in my opinion). Hence, I have been asked to say what photos I may like to have and she will edit some for us to keep.
- Not doing to an old (male) friends house, because he is not the tidiest person and his lounge will be covered with unopened post which may contain pictures of "show-off" females and he will have 'boxed-sets of DVDs' which will have images of semi-clad females on it.

If I counter any of those preferences, I am met with one or more of the following counter arguments:-

- It is not my fault... it is the result of how you betrayed our trust and how porn-ified society has become, that I have only woken up to after the A.
- You are busy and have work to do, so it's better that I do the search/buying/fact-finding and then just get your agreement when I have short-listed valid products / suppliers.
- Supermarkets are grotty and full of show-off chavs, so it is better that I go there than you.
- Restaurants/pubs are poor value and serve low-welfare food, so we are better off eating at home (which I do agree with - we are both good cooks - but it is the restriction of never going to one again that is the issue, rather than particularly wanting to do so).

Recent low-points have included:-

- receiving a product bought online, and on opening it together, there was a 'guarantee/help' leaflet that had a picture of a smiling woman's face, wearing a call-centre headset. The woman was the stereotypical smiling blond (i.e. a stock photo and not how a real call-centre agent would look like). Now, at the point, I muttered something like 'more-sexist-rubbish', but because I apparently said it in a neutral way, without meaning, it resulted in her ripping it up in minute pieces, shouting at me and spitting in my face.

- wanting to go to a golf driving range on my own whilst she attended an exercise class nearby (i.e. going in one car). But that was met with non-acceptance on 2 grounds; a) that she wanted us to do fun things together and not separately any more, after what we have been through and b) she wouldn't be able to concentrate on her exercise class not knowing whether there may be some other female "showing off" on the driving range near me, and that she couldn't trust me to tell her afterwards what I saw. She was so upset at the thought of me doing something independently, that I backed down.

So, what to do? She says she will never be able to trust me again. Then adds that anyone is stupid to trust anyone anyway. She says that after the affair she wants us to do everything together (although she attends classes, yoga, sees friends and goes shopping on her own).

And she won't accept counselling as counsellors a) won't be able to understand the complexity of it all and b) they may not be totally confidential.

Any advises gratefully received!
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Old 14th September 2017, 1:25 PM   #2
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Leave.

I'm sorry, but this dynamic has turned very poisonous. Sure, you were wrong to have an affair and hurt her, and you feel guilty and think that you may deserve this, but by this point she has created an environment where neither one of you can ever be happy.

No one is winning here.

Is she still being physically violent towards you for your "misdeeds"?

Nothing that you do will ever be good enough to make her happy and content and not afraid. No amount of change and understanding will fix her fear and anger, because that's internal to her by this point and not really about you.
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Old 14th September 2017, 1:31 PM   #3
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first off, tell your wife this.

Aspergers DOES NOT mean someone has no empathy. It is a disorder of communication and sensory input processing. In fact, many people with aspergers are actually overly empathetic, so much so that they will even attach emotions to an inatimate object ( think of that old IKEA ad with the poor little lamp out in the rain- that used to make my daughter with aspergers cry because she hated the idea of something being discarded and left alone and forgotten in the rain).

Apsergers is also not a "disease" . Sorry, but right now, if your wife was here, she;d be getting a throttling and then a stern lecture from me...

Personally, I think your wife is being abusive to you. if you were a female, everyone would be telling you to get out now. I'll say the same to you. Get out now, before she does any more damage.

I have a spouse who had an affair. Yes, that was a huge screw up on his part, but that DOES NOT mean that he shoudl pay for it for the rest of his life. What good would that do, besides making two miserable adults raising three kids in an unhappy home. Who has time for that sort of crap?

If your wife continues to punish you like this, to insist on this level of control and to brow beat you ( not to mention diagnosing you when she doesn't even know what the hell she is talking about) then she doesn't love you. I don't know what the frig to call her attitude but to me, it's abuse.

Look, you only get one go around in this world. Do you really want to spend it being unhappy? It sounds like you cheated, but that doesn't mean she gets to treat you like this. Either get some therapy for the two of you or go.
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Old 14th September 2017, 1:36 PM   #4
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Your wife has gone off the deep end. You can't fix her, and you will never be able to atone for your affair. Ever. Because she won't allow it.

I agree that you should leave.
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Old 14th September 2017, 1:39 PM   #5
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The first response from yoiur original post was:

Your going to need professional help if your going to have any chance. Her rules are unrealistic and impossible, even after what you did to her.

Its still the most valid bit of advice you can be given.

You need an impartial MC to tell your wife, her demands are ridiculous. She will not listen to you. Baring that, the last 2-4 years will repeat for the rest of you life. The other option is divorce. Normally a Betrayed spouse will be told to use the possibility of a divorce as a way to "wake up" the cheating spouse and get them to understand that without change, the marriage is over. You need to be ready to do this, if your wife refuses MC or refuses to change after MC.

She may also need IC. There is something wrong her mentality on this issue.
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Old 14th September 2017, 1:53 PM   #6
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Some bs are simply too hurt by an affair to recover, at least with the person they feel betrayed them.

They are scared, confused and also angry and upset. They try to get control over the tempest that has beocme their life.

For some, that comes in the form of being uber controlling. If as if she thinks if she can keep tabs on you all the time, you won't cheat. That says she doesn't trust you at all.

the problem is, it's like holding a sparrow. The tighter she squeezes to keep you with her, the more you will try to escape. She also doesn't understand that the only one who can stop you from cheating again is you.

Please, get counseling now, not just for you and your marriage but for her too. It sounds like she is very unhappy, as are you.
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Old 14th September 2017, 3:25 PM   #7
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It seems like the trust is forever broken and you both are just hurting each other by staying together.

For some , the more blindly they trust you , the harder they take the betrayal. Not her fault.

Her ' rules' may not be what you like or right but they are a reflection of her hurt. She wants you to go through the same pain.

Maybe time to split.
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Old 14th September 2017, 4:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somanymistakes View Post
Leave.

I'm sorry, but this dynamic has turned very poisonous. Sure, you were wrong to have an affair and hurt her, and you feel guilty and think that you may deserve this, but by this point she has created an environment where neither one of you can ever be happy.

No one is winning here.

Is she still being physically violent towards you for your "misdeeds"?

Nothing that you do will ever be good enough to make her happy and content and not afraid. No amount of change and understanding will fix her fear and anger, because that's internal to her by this point and not really about you.

Exactly......
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Old 14th September 2017, 9:42 PM   #9
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The question I have is... did she berate other people before your affairs? If so, she's crazy. If not, she's crazy now. Either way, she's unreasonable and needs help. Only she can help herself, though.
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Old 15th September 2017, 5:15 AM   #10
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Thanks for everyone's input...
Quote:
Originally Posted by somanymistakes View Post
Is she still being physically violent towards you for your "misdeeds"?
Much less so than 1 to 2 years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by somanymistakes View Post
Nothing that you do will ever be good enough to make her happy and content and not afraid.
I am slowly and sadly coming to that conclusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmacbride View Post
Apsergers is also not a "disease"
Sorry my typo... I meant 'syndrome'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmacbride View Post
...but that DOES NOT mean that he should pay for it for the rest of his life. What good would that do, besides making two miserable adults raising three kids in an unhappy home.
Yes, agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doorstopper View Post
You need an impartial MC to tell your wife, her demands are ridiculous.
I have suggested counselling. But my wife is very intelligent and doesn't believe anyone else would have the time and understanding to diagnose the issues (like she has done, from reading psychology books etc., to understand that situation in enough depth. If I say the demands are ridiculous or unacceptable I am met with the responses... a) that it was ridiculous what I did 4 years ago and kept doing behind her back, lying etc, so I am in no position to judge and b) that she has high values and wants to live life her way and if I want to be part of that then accept it, or f*** off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmacbride View Post
Some bs are simply too hurt by an affair to recover
This is what she tells me often... that she can't recover due to my lack of social and communication skills... which is the reason she is investing so much time and effort into 'retraining' me. She says (and I believe it) that she wouldn't be trying so hard if she doesn't love me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeylo View Post
It seems like the trust is forever broken...
Yes, she has said that many times. Trust has been broken and will never be there again. Then adds that no one can trust anyone and that she was stupid to think that in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NexttP View Post
The question I have is... did she berate other people before your affairs? If so, she's crazy. If not, she's crazy now...
Yes, but to a lesser degree than now. She says the world has changed since her illness and more so, since the affair. Everyone is more show-offy since social media came alone, females are wearing less and being more sexually suggestive and that she doesn't want to mix, especially if I am with her, in those situations. She wants to avoid as much contact with others as possible, (which includes as I put in my original post, not driving around later in the week, when people may be going out, avoiding the school run times when slutty schoolgirls and their mums are around etc). It's not that I want to go out specifically at those times, but life seems unfairly limited if that is off the agenda. But then is it unfair if I have caused so much damage to her?
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Old 15th September 2017, 5:37 AM   #11
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Does your wife have OCD?
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Old 15th September 2017, 8:24 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by CautiouslyOptimistic View Post
Does your wife have OCD?
No, she doesn't.
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Old 15th September 2017, 9:53 AM   #13
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What she told you 2 years ago still stands.
Quote:
If I tell her than any of the above is ridiculous or too extreme a behaviour she will tell me that me f****** the OW was extreme, licking her c*** was extreme, hence I have no right to tell my wife what is extreme or not. She says that if I love her and want to make the marriage work, I will have to accept these limitations or f*** off.
Nothing has changed here, as nothing will change the reality of your affair in her eyes.
YOU were in a long marriage with a grown up kid and you essentially ruined it all, as far as she is concerned.

I guess she has some form of PTSD and anything "female" now triggers her into feeling awful, no doubt she has "mind movies" and "flashbacks" so she wants you to live in a woman free zone in order for her to feel safe again.
See Post Infidelity Stress Disorder

AND I guess she is also so f*** ing angry with you for ruining everything, that she wants to punish you daily too... IF you love her you will put up with anything - it is a huge test from a woman who now feels unloved and unwanted.

Yes, it may not be "normal" for her to do this after 4+ years, but if as you say she gets on with her own life "attends classes, yoga, sees friends and goes shopping on her own", then I doubt she is actually "crazy".
She is a hurt, angry and resentful woman betrayed by her husband of 25+ years and finding it hard to ever trust him again in a world full of young, sexy and available women...
Her whole world has turned upside down. Life for her will never be the same again.

She also "had major illness a few years ago, which she sees could potentially shorten her life and therefore wants to live it her way". Whilst she was no doubt at a very low point her life you were whooping it up with another woman...
She now feels she has a limited life expectancy and is therefore no longer willing to compromise for a man who let her down big time, her way or the highway. LIke it or lump it.
YOU like many WS just want the BS to just get over it and everything to go back to normal, but it rarely works like that.

Affairs often cause irreparable damage, but some can reconcile (happily or unhappily), some will divorce and move on, and some just stay together but will never forgive or forget and thus live in misery...

Yes she needs to go to counselling, but I guess she doesn't want to do that, as that would suggest something is wrong with her, and it is YOU that needs to pay here and wear that hair shirt... in her mind...
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Old 15th September 2017, 10:07 AM   #14
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You may have had an affair and destroyed her love and trust, but her behavior is controlling and abusive toward you.

These "restrictions" you describe have no place in a healthy relationship when someone trusts and respects the other partner.

You need to leave is relationship. Why you tolerate this behavior is hard to understand...
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Old 15th September 2017, 11:01 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by BaileyB View Post
Why you tolerate this behavior is hard to understand...
Because he loves her, wants the marriage to work, doesn't want a divorce and because he feels responsible.
She wasn't I presume like this before his affair, so he feels it is all HIS fault and he must pay the penalty...

She is also an immovable force, and has made it clear if he doesn't like it and if he makes a fuss then it will result in divorce.
She has got him by the short and curlies... as they say...
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