State of my marriage

[SearchingForHope]

I don't even know where to start. I'm 44, my wife is 38, we have a 6 year old and a 2 year old and one on the way. My wife always gets mean(er) and nasty(ier) when she's pregnant.

 

What I want is to find a way to make my marriage better, so that I don't have to hear what a horrible person I am every couple of days. Failing that, maybe a sympathetic ear or two. Unsympathetic ears are good too; if there is something I'm doing wrong, I would love to find it.

 

So Friday we were driving to my in-laws for Passover. An hour into the drive my wife starts picking on me. I think her starting point was that I forgot again this week to take the garbage out (two weeks in a row). Also because I didn't hear her when she told me what time her obgyn appointment was. So she starts making comments - in front of the kids - about how I'm unreliable and incompetent. I told her she was being mean and asked her to stop. She just gets more worked up. She says I can't possibly understand the physical trauma she's going through. I agree and say I'm sorry and I wish I could and I'm sorry she feels bad. She says I don't mean it. She's raising her voice and yelling. She tells the six year old daughter to never get married, men are horrible, and she's sorry that she got a person like me to be her daughter's father. I tell her I'm sorry I hurt her by forgetting things or being imperfect about taking the garbage out, but it's unintentional, what she's doing now is intentional, so please stop. She says no, if she gets hurt, she's just going to hurt me worse because she's not going to be treated that way. She insults me, tells the kids I'm terrible some more, and throws her wedding rings across the car at me. Then she quiets down, relatively speaking.

 

Also last week, one morning she was angry because I hadn't put our daughter's backpack back in the spot where it usually is after I put the book order in. I was walking between the table and the counter, and my wife was there, and apparently she thought I didn't have room to get by or something. I thought I was just walking by her. Next thing I know she's grabbing my ribs, side, and back and pinching me and screaming "I was standing here!" Proceeds to call me every name in the book and tell the kids again what a horrible person I am. Pinching sounds silly but I was shaken because usually she's not physical like that. Although at one point, the last time she was pregnant, in the middle of screaming at me, she told me to watch what I eat because she could poison me at any time (she's an MD).

 

So I do forget to take the garbage out. Our double garage is still usable for both cars but there is a stack of cardboard boxes that I haven't broken down up front. I do sometimes not hear her when she says things, and sometimes I do forget when she tells me things. Seven years ago, a year into our marriage, I spent a lot of time working at night for about 6 months on a second job, and she says she has never forgiven me for that (I had no idea at the time that it was killing her interest in me and making her feel scorned; she never told me, but I guess I should have been able to tell; wish I could take that back.) In the spring and summer I play basketball with friends Thursday from 5 to 7, which she constantly berates me for every time but it is the only time I spend with friends so I don't want to give it up. I also coach a team that practices maybe 8 Saturday mornings a year and has a Friday overnight tournament 3 times a year (I'm a teacher so it's part of my job, although she doesn't see it that way and thinks I should get out of it, which I could but I really don't want to because I don't think she'd be any better if I gave up the coaching), anyway she makes me pay every time we have Saturday practice, either by calling me names or telling the kids that I don't love them enough to stay home Saturday mornings with them.

 

Am I wrong to be coaching that team? Am I wrong to be playing basketball for an hour (plus a half-hour travel time to and from) each week? Do other husbands remember everything? I am definitely forgetful sometimes, but not maliciously so, and not with anything big (one time I remembered her birthday celebration but then not her birthday actual day until 7 at night and she has never let me forget that, using it every so often as an example to the kids of how bad I am). I don't know. I really don't think I'm that terrible, but she constantly tells me I'm blind to my own awfulness, I'm clinically narcissistic (sp?), and so on. I think I'm a great dad - the only reason I don't divorce her is the kids - and I'm constantly with the kids, coaching the older one's soccer team, running the science fair at her school, hiking with them, teaching them to swim, teaching them to ride a bike, teaching them to tie shoes and do zippers. I arrange 90% of the playdates. I sign them up for all the activities except Girl Scouts, which my wife does.

 

I don't know. This is probably too long.

[dreamingoftigers]

Holy crap, she's abusive.

 

Get yourself some help and support with this one. She's way way way out of line and you should not accept this treatment.

 

I, too, am pregnant and my hormones are rough. I vent on here at people.

 

But mostly, I am not myself, but you won't catch me telling our daughter how "horrible men are and your father is xyz." That's SOOOO unhealthy for both you and your daughter. She should NEVER hear stuff like that about her Dad.

 

My husband was a literal drunk and we separated for a time (He did go to treatment and sobered up etc. Much better now, marital counseling weekly, peaceful and our son is due any day now). But I NEVER disparaged him to our daughter during that time. NEVER. If she asked about him, I told her what he was struggling with and made sure she knew it wasn't a reflection on her. But that alcohol makes people think that they are behaving okay, even when they aren't. And that her Dad needed help to get over the alcohol. I NEVER sat there and said " Your father is crappy and never get married and I hate him and he stinks etc etc etc."

 

As for missing tasks that she wants done, is her ass tied to a piano or something? She can't breakdown a few boxes without going mental? She can't be bothered to just TEXT a LIST of shyte her Highness needs done?

 

You aren't an indentured servant, you are supposed to be her partner (equal) husband. She might "love" you etc. Whatever the heck that means when someone treats you this poorly. But she sure doesn't respect you as a person with feelings etc. (If your account is 100% accurate).

 

If you want to save this craphole marriage (I know everyone will say RUN, and I mostly agree, but I was pretty chumpy about the whole thing and I think you are too) YOU HAVE to develop that backbone. You HAVE TO put your foot down and even risk losing the marriage. The way she is talking to you isn't right (again, if your account is 110% accurate, I am not saying it isn't, I just know sometimes during fights we don't see ourselves).

 

Maybe even get yourself a copy of The Verbally Abusive Relationship. I hate the sexism in it. But I see your wife fitting securely in that role of verbal abuser. It wasn't until I read it that I stopped taking crap from my husband. And it wasn't until he read it (I really didn't think he would actually) that he stopped serving crap to me.

[salparadise]

...or telling the kids that I don't love them enough to stay home Saturday mornings with them.

 

Unconscionable. I don't know how you can live with someone who is that messed up. She's treating you like an extension of herself, like she owns you and therefore is entitled to abuse you at will. You're going to have to shake things up, seriously. Or just get out. Life's too short.

[oldshirt]

What is she like when she is not pregnant?

 

 

Is this a 180 degree change in character for her or is it just a somewhat enhanced example of her behavior and demeanor?

[renaissancewoman]

There are a lot of things that are alarming like the pinching and berating you in front of the kids. I don't think that should ever happen and she definitely needs to realize that she has some issues to to work on, like having a spirit of gratitude and respecting you as her husband. That is something only she can control.

 

As far as what you can do, it sounds very much like your wife feels neglected by you. It sounds like the source of her bitterness is the TIME you spend not being with her. How often do you do things with her just the two of you? Her love language may be quality time, so she may be seeing time not spent with her as unlove, and let me tell you, when I don't feel loved, I don't give much respect. I'm working on this, and it sounds like you and your wife need some work in this too. What are you doing to go out of your way to spend time with HER?

[Got it]

There are a lot of things that are alarming like the pinching and berating you in front of the kids. I don't think that should ever happen and she definitely needs to realize that she has some issues to to work on, like having a spirit of gratitude and respecting you as her husband. That is something only she can control.

 

As far as what you can do, it sounds very much like your wife feels neglected by you. It sounds like the source of her bitterness is the TIME you spend not being with her. How often do you do things with her just the two of you? Her love language may be quality time, so she may be seeing time not spent with her as unlove, and let me tell you, when I don't feel loved, I don't give much respect. I'm working on this, and it sounds like you and your wife need some work in this too. What are you doing to go out of your way to spend time with HER?

 

I am sorry but her behavior, the verbal, physical and emotional abuse that she is heaping down on him far overshadows and pretty much negates anything else at this time.

 

If one has an issue, like their love language not being fulfilled, they discuss it like an adult. Not through a flipping temper tantrum and start parental alienation because they are feeling hurt.

 

OP - get counseling on how to handle this. She is not only abusing you but she is damaging your kids. You need to protect them. Please.

[renaissancewoman]

I am sorry but her behavior, the verbal, physical and emotional abuse that she is heaping down on him far overshadows and pretty much negates anything else at this time.

 

If one has an issue, like their love language not being fulfilled, they discuss it like an adult. Not through a flipping temper tantrum and start parental alienation because they are feeling hurt.

 

OP - get counseling on how to handle this. She is not only abusing you but she is damaging your kids. You need to protect them. Please.

 

I'm not excusing her behavior by any means. Everyone needs to work on themselves and take accountability for their own actions. I was only trying to point out that hurt people hurt. And her behavior is indicative of someone who is hurting. Again, not excusing it - just stating an observation. We can all talk about adults being adults and being mature and all, but I've read enough in these threads that are pretty indicative of how little self-control people actually exercise. If everyone would act like adults, forums like this wouldn't need exist.

 

Frankly, we can continue operating by pointing fingers at everyone else and justifying hurting people by the amount of hurt they inflict, or we can do what we can control. I only suggested that he may think about spending quality time with his wife and see how that may soften her heart. Someone has to start somewhere.

[Got it]

I'm not excusing her behavior by any means. Everyone needs to work on themselves and take accountability for their own actions. I was only trying to point out that hurt people hurt. And her behavior is indicative of someone who is hurting. Again, not excusing it - just stating an observation. We can all talk about adults being adults and being mature and all, but I've read enough in these threads that are pretty indicative of how little self-control people actually exercise. If everyone would act like adults, forums like this wouldn't need exist.

 

Frankly, we can continue operating by pointing fingers at everyone else and justifying hurting people by the amount of hurt they inflict, or we can do what we can control. I only suggested that he may think about spending quality time with his wife and see how that may soften her heart. Someone has to start somewhere.

 

Immature, toxic people lash out and hurt other people. Hurt healthy people vocalize their concerns. They do not lash out.

 

She is toxic and unhealthy and the OP needs to look out for his and the kids well being first and foremost. That is the place to start. Not worrying about her love language.

[renaissancewoman]

Immature, toxic people lash out and hurt other people. Hurt healthy people vocalize their concerns. They do not lash out.

 

She is toxic and unhealthy and the OP needs to look out for his and the kids well being first and foremost. That is the place to start. Not worrying about her love language.

 

So only toxic people hurt people? Well I guess everyone is toxic then. I'm sorry, but I'm not so quick to write people off based on one person's characterization of them on an anonymous forum. Frankly, as I read about what has really made OP's wife upset, the majority of it is the time he hasn't spent with her. I don't agree with her behavior. I really can't stress that enough. But I also have noticed the general tendency of people to dwell on the behavior of others rather than looking inward to themselves. I read OP as a man who is a wonderful father. He is involved with his kids and he is involved in his community and with his friends. He seems like a great guy. His wife seems bitter. Without knowing much else, I'm just making an observation based on what he's written as what has triggered her hurtful behavior.

 

You can trivialize love languages as much as you want, but at the end of the day, marriages deteriorate from lack of love and communication of it. So if people aren't communicating their love for each other and work on that in a way that their partner understands, then that is when problems arise. If OP wants to get out of his marriage and sees no future are has no hope for things getting better with his wife, then yes, he can leave of his own volition. No one would fault him for it. If he wants to make his marriage work and wants to improve his relationship with his wife, focusing on the practical changes HE can make with his own behavior is absolutely a good place to start. Expecting someone else to change is futile. No one has control over anyone else. It's amazing how much time people waste asking for other people to change when they can take it upon themselves to bring about change in themselves.

[Liam1]

I don't even know where to start. I'm 44, my wife is 38, we have a 6 year old and a 2 year old and one on the way. My wife always gets mean(er) and nasty(ier) when she's pregnant.

 

What I want is to find a way to make my marriage better, so that I don't have to hear what a horrible person I am every couple of days. Failing that, maybe a sympathetic ear or two. Unsympathetic ears are good too; if there is something I'm doing wrong, I would love to find it.

 

So Friday we were driving to my in-laws for Passover. An hour into the drive my wife starts picking on me. I think her starting point was that I forgot again this week to take the garbage out (two weeks in a row). Also because I didn't hear her when she told me what time her obgyn appointment was. So she starts making comments - in front of the kids - about how I'm unreliable and incompetent. I told her she was being mean and asked her to stop. She just gets more worked up. She says I can't possibly understand the physical trauma she's going through. I agree and say I'm sorry and I wish I could and I'm sorry she feels bad. She says I don't mean it. She's raising her voice and yelling. She tells the six year old daughter to never get married, men are horrible, and she's sorry that she got a person like me to be her daughter's father. I tell her I'm sorry I hurt her by forgetting things or being imperfect about taking the garbage out, but it's unintentional, what she's doing now is intentional, so please stop. She says no, if she gets hurt, she's just going to hurt me worse because she's not going to be treated that way. She insults me, tells the kids I'm terrible some more, and throws her wedding rings across the car at me. Then she quiets down, relatively speaking.

 

Also last week, one morning she was angry because I hadn't put our daughter's backpack back in the spot where it usually is after I put the book order in. I was walking between the table and the counter, and my wife was there, and apparently she thought I didn't have room to get by or something. I thought I was just walking by her. Next thing I know she's grabbing my ribs, side, and back and pinching me and screaming "I was standing here!" Proceeds to call me every name in the book and tell the kids again what a horrible person I am. Pinching sounds silly but I was shaken because usually she's not physical like that. Although at one point, the last time she was pregnant, in the middle of screaming at me, she told me to watch what I eat because she could poison me at any time (she's an MD).

 

So I do forget to take the garbage out. Our double garage is still usable for both cars but there is a stack of cardboard boxes that I haven't broken down up front. I do sometimes not hear her when she says things, and sometimes I do forget when she tells me things. Seven years ago, a year into our marriage, I spent a lot of time working at night for about 6 months on a second job, and she says she has never forgiven me for that (I had no idea at the time that it was killing her interest in me and making her feel scorned; she never told me, but I guess I should have been able to tell; wish I could take that back.) In the spring and summer I play basketball with friends Thursday from 5 to 7, which she constantly berates me for every time but it is the only time I spend with friends so I don't want to give it up. I also coach a team that practices maybe 8 Saturday mornings a year and has a Friday overnight tournament 3 times a year (I'm a teacher so it's part of my job, although she doesn't see it that way and thinks I should get out of it, which I could but I really don't want to because I don't think she'd be any better if I gave up the coaching), anyway she makes me pay every time we have Saturday practice, either by calling me names or telling the kids that I don't love them enough to stay home Saturday mornings with them.

 

Am I wrong to be coaching that team? Am I wrong to be playing basketball for an hour (plus a half-hour travel time to and from) each week? Do other husbands remember everything? I am definitely forgetful sometimes, but not maliciously so, and not with anything big (one time I remembered her birthday celebration but then not her birthday actual day until 7 at night and she has never let me forget that, using it every so often as an example to the kids of how bad I am). I don't know. I really don't think I'm that terrible, but she constantly tells me I'm blind to my own awfulness, I'm clinically narcissistic (sp?), and so on. I think I'm a great dad - the only reason I don't divorce her is the kids - and I'm constantly with the kids, coaching the older one's soccer team, running the science fair at her school, hiking with them, teaching them to swim, teaching them to ride a bike, teaching them to tie shoes and do zippers. I arrange 90% of the playdates. I sign them up for all the activities except Girl Scouts, which my wife does.

 

I don't know. This is probably too long.

 

Your wife is being emotionally, verbally and physically abusive.

 

She is also diagnosing you as Narcissistic and even if she is a professional she can not objectively diagnose a family member.

 

I think you need to get her into family counseling, asap.

 

You need some professional to help mediate discussions between you and she without her becoming physically abusive.

[SearchingForHope]

I very much appreciate the feedback.

 

The reason I stay is the kids, of course. I can't stand the thought of not waking up in the same house as them every day, not spending time with them every day, etc.

 

I have tried to get her to therapy. Long ago, 2009 or so, when we first started having problems, she suggested therapy and I said let's try to work it out ourselves. I had no idea it would get this bad. Now I have asked her repeatedly to go, but she refuses and says that it's too late. I did get her to one appointment in 2014, but afterward she refused to return, saying the therapist was an idiot and that she (my wife) was just lying to the therapist anyway to make the visit go smoother.

 

When I met my wife, she was in residency and after about 6 months of dating I learned - she volunteered - that she was on Zoloft. She said it was just because residency was so hard and she needed it to avoid depression. I foolishly didn't think much of it. Certainly I didn't think it would completely change her personality once she went off it when we started trying to have our first baby.

 

When she's not pregnant, she's still bad, though not this bad. She doesn't go back on Zoloft; never has. We can go a month sometimes without her blowing up, although she still often (at least once a week) makes remarks to both me and the kids whenever I do anything (pretty much literally anything) that doesn't match up exactly with how she wants her day to go. We had stopped sleeping in the same room, etc. three years ago (previous pregnancy) but then last summer she sent me a weepy text saying she was tired of being alone, she wanted a friend, etc. So I tried to make it work and it was better, not perfect but better, up until she/we became pregnant again last Christmas. Then back to this insanity.

 

As for whether I'm being 100% accurate, I am trying to be. I recognize that it's hard to view oneself clearly especially in situations like this. I mean, I do yell back at her sometimes. But mostly I just stay quiet, leave the room, etc. to avoid making the kids feel bad hearing the yelling. I'm not unfaithful, I don't spend time with friends (except those basketball Thursdays). She would say things that I do that are terrible are things like last night, my daughter was crying and said she wanted to see her mom (I tried to console her first of course but she really wanted her mom), so I told her it would be ok to go into mommy's bedroom. Mommy turned out to be already asleep (845 pm), and she got super mad when we opened the door and she woke up. She says things like that are proof that I hate her and try to hurt her. I knew there was about a 33% chance she was asleep, and would probably wake up and get mad if we went in - but I took the chance because my daughter was crying and really wanted to see her mother. So it's stuff like that. I try very, very, very hard not to push my wife's buttons, but sometimes I need to in order to get other things done. For example, I was doing the laundry and the baskets were up in my wife's close. There were about ten things in them, so I put them on the floor in my wife's closet - I would have put them in appropriate drawers, but my wife doesn't use drawers or hangers, just leaves stuff everywhere on furniture and floor - and then I took the baskets downstairs to do kids' laundry and my laundry. My wife has mentioned that incident several times the past few months as proof that I am rude, inconsiderate, and a bad person.

 

As for her being neglected or needing the right love language, I've tried to giver her attention and go on dates. Most of the time she refuses date nights. Last year, we had a good run with some dates, probably four date nights from September - December, last one being Star Wars. Babysitters are not a problem since I'm a teacher and know many good babysitters among my students. We had a date night lined up in January but after dinner she just wanted to go home and sleep (not with me; I asked). I haven't asked since January.

 

Thanks to people for listening. My sister is the only other person I've told about this. She's supportive, of course.

[renaissancewoman]

Truly, I am very sorry that you are in this situation. It does sound like you are in need of some professional help, if not for her, for you. I imagine that you live your life rather like walking on eggshells. That is no way to live. Please seek counsel and determine what it is you want for your life. Staying for kids is not a good reason and could be more harmful for the kids to see their father so unhappy. Your wife doesn't sound open to making any self improvements or seeking help for herself. You can only do what you can control.

 

I am not usually a proponent of divorce, but when one party lacks the motivation to do the work necessary to make a marriage, it's not healthy for you to continue trying everything you can to accommodate her. Both people have to be willing to work for the marriage. You deserve to be happy too.

 

Admittedly, my father is bipolar. When he had his bouts of depression, it was very stressful and it was a lot like walking on eggshells. My mother was incredibly patient and sort of had this attitude of this shall pass and he will get better. I can't imagine having that kind of strength. But my father was never violent. Even when he was angry. He was incredibly paranoid at times and irritable, but he never disrespected my mom in front of us. But I guess that also speaks to his general loving nature and no matter how much of an imbalance he may have it was never something that led to abusive behavior.

[pteromom]

One thing I will add is that it is absolutely ok for you to coach the kids and have your Thursdays. You have a right to independent time (as does your wife.) You do not need to be chained to each other's hips.

 

Listen to what she is really asking for underneath her anger and accusations. She wants more of your time, more of your affection. She wants you to pay attention to what she says and who she is.

 

I think if you make more of an effort to do those things during your time together, she may make less of an issue out of you doing your own things.

 

Of course, how she is acting is abusive and completely ridiculous. So it could be that she just thinks very irrationally and nothing you can do will make a difference.

[oldshirt]

 

Listen to what she is really asking for underneath her anger and accusations. She wants more of your time, more of your affection. She wants you to pay attention to what she says and who she is.

 

I think if you make more of an effort to do those things during your time together, she may make less of an issue out of you doing your own things.

.

 

I do strongly disagree with this statement above.

 

You can not appease tyrants.

 

She is abusive and mean-spirited and perhaps downright mentally ill. Appeasment and capitulation will only make her dig in and be more domineering, abusive and out of control.

 

 

This really needs the exact opposite if you hope to have any kind of life at all. She is like an out of control teenager and needs to have firm, unbroachable boundaries and swift definitive repurcussions for her actions when she breeches the boundaries.

 

 

The first step is she needs to be dragged (kicking and screaming if necessaryl) to doctor for a full medical and psychiatric exam to see if she is off her rocker hormonally and is in any danger medically or poses any danger to herself, the unborn child or the children at home. She is clearly mentally unstable and there are terrible things that happen when pregnant women go off their rockers.

 

 

(sidebar example: I work in the medical field and have been personally involved in a few cases where women that were perfectly normal before pregnancy had actual psychotic episodes during and immediately pregnancy and harmed their themselves and their children. I was involved with one gal who saw a train coming down the tracks, stopped her car, got out and stood on the railroad tracks at the crossing on mainstreet of a small town and let the train hit her and instantly kill her in front of a bunch of small town school children walking home from school )

 

 

This is life-serious business. People do harm themselves and harm others in this state.

 

 

If she does have some kind of physiological or psychiatric imbalance, that can be treated and managed.

 

 

IF she is simply a beeotch, then she needs to have firm boundaries and definitive repurcussions for her inappropriate actions.

 

 

You have to stop allowing this kind of inappropriate and abusive behavior in your home. If that means filing some kind of protective order and tossing her out, so be it.

 

 

This behavior is intolerable and unexcusable. If she were a man treating a woman this way, at minimum it would involve restraining orders and mandatory anger management sessions and if there was physical evidence of physical abuse there would be domestic assault charges and criminal sentences.

 

 

Stop accepting unacceptable behavior.

Edited April 28, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[SomethingToSay]

If you love your children so much, you need to remove them from this toxic relationship. If you have to sacrifice seeing them 1/2 the time so be it. Maybe your wife will not pass a psych exam. You need to sit her down to talk (when the kids are gone somewhere) and tell her you cant continue as is with her anger and resentment and lack of love and the relationship being dead. Tell her you are prepared to file for divorce. Meet with an attorney BEFORE this so she knows you mean business. If she is still unwilling to get help, therapy, make changes, etc -- well then you need to divorce. This is awful and no way to live. Sounds like its been dead for 4 years and she unfairly blames you on that, which is where the resentment comes.

[oldshirt]

.

 

 

You can not appease tyrants.

 

 

 

And you can't appease crazy. If she is having mental problems, appeasing and accomidating the crazy will only prolong and intensify the nutty and inappropriate behavior.

 

 

Mental health problems need to be treated and managed appropriately, not catered to and supported.

 

 

There is a high likelihood that this scenario involves some form of mental illness or some kind of hormonal imbalance and trying to cater to it and appease it will only make the behavior worse and will prolong and exacerbate the condition and make things worse.

 

 

This needs a thorough and comprehensive evaluation by a multi disciplinary team of professionals including an ob/gyn physician, a psychiatrist and possibly an endocrinologist and marriage therapy professionals.

 

 

She needs medical and psychiatric treatment. She does not need more quality time and more catering to her demands and her outbursts.

[renaissancewoman]

And you can't appease crazy. If she is having mental problems, appeasing and accomidating the crazy will only prolong and intensify the nutty and inappropriate behavior.

 

 

Mental health problems need to be treated and managed appropriately, not catered to and supported.

 

 

There is a high likelihood that this scenario involves some form of mental illness or some kind of hormonal imbalance and trying to cater to it and appease it will only make the behavior worse and will prolong and exacerbate the condition and make things worse.

 

 

This needs a thorough and comprehensive evaluation by a multi disciplinary team of professionals including an ob/gyn physician, a psychiatrist and possibly an endocrinologist and marriage therapy professionals.

 

 

She needs medical and psychiatric treatment. She does not need more quality time and more catering to her demands and her outbursts.

 

I agree and I made those comments before he disclosed her having to be on Zoloft.

[Phoenician]

Sorry for you what you are going through ...

 

I have been on this boat before ...

 

 

If she is refusing treatment ; the only las resort is create an opportunity by doing a negative then positive shock .

 

 

 

file a divorce but do't proceed , tell her everuthing is over and now she has only one choice :

-If she wants to stay in this marriage she has to accept new vows ; that guarantes your dignity .

 

- she must understand that she can't keep u in a jar .

-she must resect you .

 

involve her parents .

[Ladyjane14]

Sorry, man. But a stubborn woman won't listen to you until she's got your attorney's card in her hand. She has to know you're serious... and you're not.

 

You both need some counseling... her for her completely inappropriate lack of self-control, and you for why you put up with it. If she's not on board with that, see above.

 

Now, of course you don't have to go from 0 to 60 in a school zone on this thing. Start by reading some books. The Seven Principles of Making Marriage Work by Gottman is a good starter. Haven't read the one Dreaming with Tigers recommended, but it sounds appropriate to the situation, so try that too. SEE an attorney, find out what your rights are. Book an appointment with a marriage counselor. Go by yourself if she refuses. Make another appointment if you're getting on well with the counselor. And once this new baby is born, hand her both business cards, the one from the attorney and the one from the counselor and tell her to pick one.

[Downtown]

I have tried to get her to therapy.... We can go a month sometimes without her blowing up, although she still often (at least once a week) makes remarks to both me and the kids....

Searching, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., strong irrational anger, controlling behavior, temper tantrums, verbal and physical abuse, lack of impulse control, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit strong traits of it.

 

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum).

 

Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and temper tantrums.

 

I note that the vast majority of BPDers (i.e., those having strong traits) are "high functioning." This means they tend to get along very well with casual friends, business associates, clients, and total strangers. The reason is that none of those folks are able to trigger a BPDer's two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. There is no close R/S that can be abandoned and no intimacy to cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment. It therefore is not uncommon for HF BPDers to excel in very demanding professions (e.g., medicine, teaching, or social work) where one must interact frequently with business associates and clients.

 

When she's not pregnant, she's still bad, though not this bad....

Because everyone exhibits BPD traits to some degree, it is common for even healthy people to exhibit a strong flareup of these traits when hormones are surging, e.g., during puberty, pregnancy, postpartum, extreme PMS, or perimenopause. The result is that, with most people, when you see strong BPD traits for only a year or two, you likely are seeing only a flareup of traits aggravated by hormones -- or, to a lesser extent, by drug abuse. It therefore is very concerning that the BPD traits you are describing are still "bad" when she is not pregnant. This suggests that the problem is persistent.

 

She tells the six year old daughter to never get married, men are horrible, and she's sorry that she got a person like me to be her daughter's father.

This behavior is called "black-white thinking," one of the hallmarks of BPDers (and of narcissists too). If your W actually has BPD traits at a strong and persistent level, her emotional development likely is frozen at the level of a four year old. This means that, whenever she feels fearful, she is fully reliant on the primitive ego defenses that young children use. These include projection, denial, black-white thinking, magical thinking, and temper tantrums.

 

Like a young child, a BPDer or NPDer is so emotionally immature that she can only handle one intense feeling at a time. She accomplishes this by "splitting off" the conflicting feeling (e.g., her love for you), putting it entirely out of reach of her conscious mind. In this way, she is able to avoid having to deal with strong conflicting feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other grey areas of interpersonal relationships.

 

This is why BPDers, narcissists, and children rely so heavily on B-W thinking, wherein they categorize everyone as "all good" (white) or "all bad" (black). And they can recategorize someone, from one polar extreme to the other, in just ten seconds. Because that flip occurs so rapidly, and because you never know for sure what will trigger it, you will find yourself always walking on eggshells around her. Moreover, because she has been doing B-W thinking her entire lifetime, she will be very puzzled by your inability to do such rapid flips between Jekyll and Hyde. You therefore will be accused of "holding grudges" and your inability to "get over it."

 

I don't even know where to start.

I suggest you start by seeing a professional -- on your own. I agree with RenaissanceWoman, Oldshirt, and other members stating that your W should be seeing a psychologist or psychiatrist. Yet, if she really does have strong BPD traits, that is very unlikely to happen. Even if it does, it is very unlikely she will exhibit her BPD traits while seeing the therapist. It thus could take the therapist two or three years to see the behaviors you see all week long.

 

Moreover, even if both of those unlikely events occur and the therapist does see her BPD traits, he likely will not tell her -- much less tell you -- the name of her disorder. That information is routinely withheld from high functioning BPDers to protect them (for reasons I discuss at Loath to Diagnose BPD).

 

Consequently, my advice is that you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you and your kids are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of what it's like to live with a BPDer. That description appears at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If it rings many bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- or avoid unnecessarily prolonging one. It also may help you decide whether your situation is sufficiently serious to warrant spending money on professional guidance. Take care, Searching.

[Phoenician]

Dowtown ,

 

you might be right ,

 

but a BPD or any person having any kind of disorder is catastrophic when the person won't accept treatment .

 

reminding them that they have an issue with their personality trigger more of negative behavior .

 

 

When my wife refused any counseling over years I did seek treatment myself , to cope with the situation .

 

I decided not to leave my marriage for the kids ; it hurts me to leave them without a father or a mother ; the effect of it in my society is much heavier than any damage on their personality ; so I decided to stay .

 

I am sharing my experience with OP , maybe it could work as a last option .

 

 

when 6 month back my wife left the house because I told her we cant continue like this ;

 

she went to her parents and expected me to follow her begging her to come back ; i requested to meet in front of her parents and told them the story of my life with her ; emphasized that Staying for the family was strength and not weakness, " now that she opted to leave ; she can have the house and money , but I will fight for the kids ; and I showed them the divorce paper.

 

Never Mentioned any sexual issue or intimacy lacking to them .

 

I just told them that all what i wanted all the years is Respect and empathy ,responsibility towards kids .

 

And I left saying that if she wants to come back ; she has 48 hrs , to come and accept new vows:

 

-She has to respect me , any sign of disrespect ( shouting , rage , etc...) in front of kids , she we get divorce papers in minutes and I will make sure to leave her with no single penny .

 

-She has to take her role ; I am no longer a service provider at home ; I will help on 50% share basis .

 

-she can rage at my face , when we are alone , she can discuss anything she wants , but not in fron of kids .

[Phoenician]

I got her now a full time helper ; so that she is comfortable .

 

I have my own time to spend outside home at least twice a week ; if she want to do the same I have no problem ;she wants to join she is welcome , but she can not control me .

 

I got back to a good group of friends , we spend now good time , dancing playing cards ,spending a decent quality time .

 

I went to the max and told her , from now on I want to have fun ( decent one ) , new standards about cheating are set :

 

-I trust myself and I will not sleep with another women , I will dance , cuddle and do whatever i want ; if I am drunk or slept with another women i will not come back home .

 

I never slept outside ...

 

Now she is trying more and more to get involved , because she knows that if she doesn't want to have a good time with me , I am not her pet ; I will get emotional satisfaction outside...

 

the kids still fear her rage , but they love her as a mom , they understand that she has a problem , but they are getting closer to her and I am happy about it ; I told them the truth , and taught them to express to her when she hurts them emotionally ; which is putting a positive pressure on her .

 

I always praise her in front of them ; even when we are in disagreement ; last week she raged in front of kids ,because they asked her to do shopping for them ,it told her in front of kids :

 

honey you must have gone through a bad day at work , watch your mouth now , and told the kids to hug her and leave .

 

 

when the kids slept , I sat with her , and told her if you want to rage we can go a trip in the car , I took the credit card I gave her earlier and cut it in half calmly , and told her sincerly ," you will be punished every time you rage with no reason .

 

 

Some might say it is not a life to live this way ; I say I have a mission , I will not leave it , if she is fedup she can leave , but I won't .

 

 

I will survive and watch my kids growing , and have fun with them , and I will have my emotional support and love from agroup of friends who are decent lovely and hurting like me .

[Got it]

I normally think pteromom is one of the sharpest tacks in the box and is always very wise and down to earth. However I do strongly disagree with this statement above.

 

 

You can not appease tyrants. This is like saying lets give Hitler a few more Jews to work in the factories and he will stop invading other countries and everyone will get along fine.

 

 

She is abusive and mean-spirited and perhaps downright mentally ill. Appeasment and capitulation will only make her dig in and be more domineering, abusive and out of control.

 

 

This really needs the exact opposite if you hope to have any kind of life at all. She is like an out of control teenager and needs to have firm, unbroachable boundaries and swift definitive repurcussions for her actions when she breeches the boundaries.

 

 

The first step is she needs to be dragged (kicking and screaming if necessaryl) to doctor for a full medical and psychiatric exam to see if she is off her rocker hormonally and is in any danger medically or poses any danger to herself, the unborn child or the children at home. She is clearly mentally unstable and there are terrible things that happen when pregnant women go off their rockers.

 

 

(sidebar example: I work in the medical field and have been personally involved in a few cases where women that were perfectly normal before pregnancy had actual psychotic episodes during and immediately pregnancy and harmed their themselves and their children. I was involved with one gal who saw a train coming down the tracks, stopped her car, got out and stood on the railroad tracks at the crossing on mainstreet of a small town and let the train hit her and instantly kill her in front of a bunch of small town school children walking home from school )

 

 

This is life-serious business. People do harm themselves and harm others in this state.

 

 

If she does have some kind of physiological or psychiatric imbalance, that can be treated and managed.

 

 

IF she is simply a beeotch, then she needs to have firm boundaries and definitive repurcussions for her inappropriate actions.

 

 

You have to stop allowing this kind of inappropriate and abusive behavior in your home. If that means filing some kind of protective order and tossing her out, so be it.

 

 

This behavior is intolerable and unexcusable. If she were a man treating a woman this way, at minimum it would involve restraining orders and mandatory anger management sessions and if there was physical evidence of physical abuse there would be domestic assault charges and criminal sentences.

 

 

Stop accepting unacceptable behavior.

 

Thank you! These issue so far exceed normal marital concerns that discussing such trivial things like giving her a Saturday to herself, is (excuse the saying" pissing in the wind.

 

These are serious mental issues and no amount of codependency and accommodations are going to make it better.

 

The above post is spot on.

[Liam1]

Searchingforhope:

 

As you already know your lady needs counseling. Can you enlist your sister to help?

 

I am not a proponent of threatening a divorce, unless you are truly prepared to follow through. IMO, it's a form of bullying and emotional abuse.

 

So, I think enlisting your sister, her parents, friends, or your family doctor to get her into counseling, will be a better first option.

 

Also, If she is BPD, and engages in black and white thinking, as most do, who knows what direction the threat of divorce will send her.

 

You already said you DO NOT want a divorce. So, IMO, issuing a false ultimatum might backfire.

 

As rennaissance woman suggested, at the very least get counseling for yourself alone, so that maybe you can get suggestions on how to effectively deal with her bullying tantrums, until your children are older and you might really be ready for a divorce.

 

I very much appreciate the feedback.

 

The reason I stay is the kids, of course. I can't stand the thought of not waking up in the same house as them every day, not spending time with them every day, etc.

 

I have tried to get her to therapy. Long ago, 2009 or so, when we first started having problems, she suggested therapy and I said let's try to work it out ourselves. I had no idea it would get this bad. Now I have asked her repeatedly to go, but she refuses and says that it's too late. I did get her to one appointment in 2014, but afterward she refused to return, saying the therapist was an idiot and that she (my wife) was just lying to the therapist anyway to make the visit go smoother.

 

When I met my wife, she was in residency and after about 6 months of dating I learned - she volunteered - that she was on Zoloft. She said it was just because residency was so hard and she needed it to avoid depression. I foolishly didn't think much of it. Certainly I didn't think it would completely change her personality once she went off it when we started trying to have our first baby.

 

When she's not pregnant, she's still bad, though not this bad. She doesn't go back on Zoloft; never has. We can go a month sometimes without her blowing up, although she still often (at least once a week) makes remarks to both me and the kids whenever I do anything (pretty much literally anything) that doesn't match up exactly with how she wants her day to go. We had stopped sleeping in the same room, etc. three years ago (previous pregnancy) but then last summer she sent me a weepy text saying she was tired of being alone, she wanted a friend, etc. So I tried to make it work and it was better, not perfect but better, up until she/we became pregnant again last Christmas. Then back to this insanity.

 

As for whether I'm being 100% accurate, I am trying to be. I recognize that it's hard to view oneself clearly especially in situations like this. I mean, I do yell back at her sometimes. But mostly I just stay quiet, leave the room, etc. to avoid making the kids feel bad hearing the yelling. I'm not unfaithful, I don't spend time with friends (except those basketball Thursdays). She would say things that I do that are terrible are things like last night, my daughter was crying and said she wanted to see her mom (I tried to console her first of course but she really wanted her mom), so I told her it would be ok to go into mommy's bedroom. Mommy turned out to be already asleep (845 pm), and she got super mad when we opened the door and she woke up. She says things like that are proof that I hate her and try to hurt her. I knew there was about a 33% chance she was asleep, and would probably wake up and get mad if we went in - but I took the chance because my daughter was crying and really wanted to see her mother. So it's stuff like that. I try very, very, very hard not to push my wife's buttons, but sometimes I need to in order to get other things done. For example, I was doing the laundry and the baskets were up in my wife's close. There were about ten things in them, so I put them on the floor in my wife's closet - I would have put them in appropriate drawers, but my wife doesn't use drawers or hangers, just leaves stuff everywhere on furniture and floor - and then I took the baskets downstairs to do kids' laundry and my laundry. My wife has mentioned that incident several times the past few months as proof that I am rude, inconsiderate, and a bad person.

 

As for her being neglected or needing the right love language, I've tried to giver her attention and go on dates. Most of the time she refuses date nights. Last year, we had a good run with some dates, probably four date nights from September - December, last one being Star Wars. Babysitters are not a problem since I'm a teacher and know many good babysitters among my students. We had a date night lined up in January but after dinner she just wanted to go home and sleep (not with me; I asked). I haven't asked since January.

 

Thanks to people for listening. My sister is the only other person I've told about this. She's supportive, of course.

[wmacbride]

op,

first off, don;t take the diagnosis of anyone on an internet forum as being accurate. Only a doctor can do that.

 

Secondly, if she is mentally ill, it is not your fault and you can't fix her. Only she , with a lot of help and support from medical professionals, make herself better. Even she may not be able to do it.

 

Getting someone with mental illness to admit they need help can be really hard, partly because there is a stigma in society about seeking help, and partly because it can be really frightening. This being aid, the environment you are currently in is not healthy for your children. They need to be out of it, at least until your wife gets some sort of evaluation, diagnosis and therapy plan. If she is not willing to do so, then you might need to take a hard look at separating, at least for a little while.