Is anyone's spouse BPD/depressed?

[Silveron]

I have been living in a marriage for a little of ten years to a wife who I believe matches all the symptoms of BPD. Over the years she has been emotionally, verbally and physically abusive. I have been threatened with a knife and a pair of scissors (the latest incident was about 6 months ago). She was standing over me with a pair of scissors raised telling me she could stab me in the heart, because I was laying on the couch (it was late & I was tired) and she wanted to sit there.

 

 

She tries to sabotage our plans. An upcoming trip with our daughter is making it unpleasant to actually look forward too now. Her meds are at the maximum dosage, she has told me numerous times that she wishes she could die. I have a license to carry a firearm but I have the gun at my parents house right now due to her latest threats. Her dad has been rapidly declining in health recently and I told her mom (they are divorced) that after he passes that i'm afraid she will do something awful to herself.

 

 

Been to a psychologist, she quit after a month once she started getting her to abused past when she was a child. The psychologist told me that she is so messed up that it will take years of therapy. She refuses to go back. Every night at our house she will verbally abuse me to the point that my six year old daughter has told me to stop talking to her when mom gets this way. My daughter clings to her very hard due to the anxiety of losing her. She won't go anywhere without her. My wife is passive /aggressive with her, buying her anything she wants and shows her love then completely ignores her and says awful things.

 

 

She drinks every night, not where she is drunk but she can't go a night without it. She is on her phone for hours at a time and has ignored the house. I don't believe she is cheating but I feel that she could harm me or herself. I don't believe she is a threat to our daughter.

 

 

Her childhood was horrendous and the few people that know about it cringed when they heard the stories. It really only stopped about 10 years ago, however she never wants to talk about it.

 

 

I don't even know how to deal with her anymore, I do love her and I know it's the illness that is causing this but how do I help her? How do I do more then just encourage her to go back to the psychologist? What do I do when she threatens to kill herself or cause harm to me? Two weeks ago I threatened to call the police but my daughter crying & begging asked me not too. I didn't only because of the trauma my daughter would have to witness.

 

 

My wife is like a different person now, like she is looking at the future as nothing but cold and bad. To her co-workers she is miss charming and everyone adores her. Behind closed doors she is a completely different person. She keeps talking about leaving and I told her I would not hold her back but she doesn't leave. It's like 'I hate you but I don't want to leave'. She can never accept responsibility and never apologizes. She told the psychologist that she rather have me scream and yell at her then to tell her how much I am hurt (emotionally).

 

 

I know this is long but if anyone has an experience in this please lend me some advice.

[TintedChrome]

This is way beyond encouraging her to see a psychologist. And if she's like this with her medication at the maximum dose then she's on the wrong medication. She definitely needs to be under the care of a psychiatrist. You also should get a legal opinion about having her confined to a mental health facility until her behavior improves. Borderline personality disorder is not something that goes away with just hope. Dude don't put up with the status quo one more day. Find a peer support group in your area too and see what advice they have.

[Downtown]

I have been living in a marriage for a little of ten years to a wife who I believe matches all the symptoms of BPD.... if anyone has an experience in this please lend me some advice.

Silveron, I have some experience because I was married to a BPDer for 15 years. Of course, you will not be able to diagnose your W to determine whether her BPD traits are so strong as to satisfy 100% of the criteria for having full-blown BPD. Only professionals can do that.

 

You nonetheless are capable of spotting the warning signs for having strong BPD traits if you take a little time to read about them. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about red flags such as strong verbal abuse, very controlling behavior, and always being "The Victim" (i.e., blaming you for every misfortune).

 

I therefore suggest you take a look at my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them in Maybe's Thread. If that discussion rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you.

 

Been to a psychologist, she quit after a month once she started getting her to abused past when she was a child. The psychologist told me that she is so messed up that it will take years of therapy.

When BPD is involved, therapists generally are loath to tell a client -- much less tell her husband -- the name of her disorder. There are many reasons for this withholding of the BPD diagnosis even when the client has full-blown BPD. If you're interested, I discuss those reasons in my post at Loath to Diagnose. Hence, your best chance of obtaining a candid professional opinion about your W -- if she is a BPDer as you suspect -- is to describe her behavior to your own psychologist.

[GoBlue]

I have no experience with BPD but your daughter is already witnessing traumatic things. If there are instances where stuff is going on to the point where someone is in physical danger, then steps need to be taken and they need to be taken sooner than later. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Edited August 29, 2014 by GoBlue

[mrs rubble]

Please don't let your daughter witness anymore, threats or violence in your house. Take appropriate steps, call the police, teach her that it is NOT ok to act like this now or the cycle will continue.

[Silveron]

Thank you all for the replies. Downtown I will definitely take a look into those links and read up even more about it. It has come to the point that it seems like everything is a battle with her and even on the most common things that a couple should agree on, she can't.

 

 

For instance, my daughter is in first grade, I believe she should be in bed no later than 9:30. Last night it was already 10:30 (I went to bed at 10) and told my wife that our daughter needs to come upstairs with me. My daughter of course acts out and my wife defends her. My wife on her phone (texting or FBing) starts her verbal assault on me.

 

 

She didn't bring her up until past 11:30. If I were to have gone down and physically gotten my daughter, my wife's reaction would be a full-blown screaming fit.

 

 

When I met her years ago, never in my wildest dreams would I have thought she is the person she is now today.

[Silveron]

I looked at your list and carefully read each one. I counted 15 of the 18 traits that she strongly has. It seems like every disagreement we have she is now quick to say 'Well I am just going to move out' but never does. She lives paycheck to paycheck (even though I pay all the bills) and hasn't even looked for a place.

 

 

I believe she is just trying to get a reaction from me, when she does this all I tell her is that we need to stay on the topic at hand. She will then either start verbal abuse or just completely tune me out.

 

 

I am seeing a change in my daughter, yesterday I talked to her about how important it is for her to go to bed earlier because of school and offered to stay upstairs with her when she goes to bed. Her response (she's 6 years old) was "If I don't stay downstairs with mommy, she won't love me anymore". It's scary because it's telling me that my daughter has a co-dependency with her mother that is not healthy.

 

 

I guess my question is, will this ever get better? Could it ever get worse to the point that she does something harmful to herself or me? She has talked about suicide and saw on her phone that she has looked it up quite a bit.

 

 

Also any little "illness" she gets she searches hours on the symptoms online which is really excessive and not good.

 

 

What really spooks me right now is that her dad's health is bad (had recent strokes) and when he passes I feel she will go off the deep end. She has always longed for his attention and guidance. He totally ignored her as a child and has a bad temper. Even to this day he and his step-wife only call her when they need something. She is trying to get him involved in her life but I know still feels left out.

 

 

She is a totally different person than the one I fell in love with. Things seems to have started as soon as she moved in with me. I know she needs therapy but I don't know how else to encourage her to do it. She went like 4 times but quit, telling me that the psychologist should have fixed her by now, which is an insane answer. The psychologist telling me she needs years of therapy, however that is something I was told to never tell my wife.

 

 

I'm at wits end..

[Downtown]

I looked at your list and carefully read each one. I counted 15 of the 18 traits that she strongly has.

Which of the 3 traits does she not exhibit strongly? Did you read my posts in Rebel's thread? If not, I believe you would find them helpful given that you believe she is exhibiting nearly all of the 18 warning signs for BPD.

 

Her response (she's 6 years old) was "If I don't stay downstairs with mommy, she won't love me anymore". It's scary because it's telling me that my daughter has a co-dependency with her mother that is not healthy.

Yes, that is worrisome. Not a good sign at all.

 

I guess my question is, will this ever get better?

Most likely, it will get worse. My experience is that BPDer relationships generally last about 18 months or 12-15 years. They last 18 months when the Non (nonBPDer) has strong personal boundaries. In this case, the Non enjoys the 4-6 month infatuation period and then is willing to spend up to an additional 12 months trying to restore the BPDer to the glorious woman he saw at the beginning. Then he bails.

These relationships last 12-15 years when the Non is an excessive caregiver like you and me. In this case, the caregiver typically never does walk out. Not knowing that he is dealing with strong BPD traits, he mistakenly believes that he can restore the BPDer to her former glory if he can only figure out what HE is doing wrong. Caregivers, after all, have a lifetime of experiences in successfully fixing other peoples' problems. The party that typically walks out within 15 years, then, is the BPDer herself.

 

As the years go by, she becomes increasingly resentful of the Non's inability to make her happy -- an impossible task. As the same time, she grows increasingly fearful of abandonment as she sees her body aging. Eventually, that fear is so painful that she preemptively abandons the caregiver before he has a chance to do it to her.

 

Interestingly, a few recent studies suggest that BPDers tend to mellow a bit starting in their late forties -- with the result that many of them no longer have full-blown BPD. Hence, assuming your W is a BPDer and assuming she doesn't abandon you, there is a good chance she will improve somewhat later on.

 

I don't find those studies very encouraging, however. Due to the strange way that psychologists currently define this disorder, a person satisfying only 90% of the diagnostic criteria is said to "not have BPD." Hence, numerous BPDers can, during their older years, change from "having BPD" to "not having BPD." Yet, from the point of view of their abused spouses, very little improvement may be seen. A person satisfying 90% of the diagnostic criteria can be nearly as impossible to live with as one satisfying 100%. With a "spectrum disorder" like BPD, what is important is not whether your spouse "has BPD" but, rather, whether she is near the upper end of the spectrum.

 

Could it ever get worse to the point that she does something harmful to herself or me?

Yes. Indeed, if she is an untreated BPDer, it likely will get worse. She may become much more physically abusive. Moreover, any man married to a BPDer is at risk of being arrested on a bogus charge. Her being able to see you in jail is the equivalent of obtaining a Harvard PhD in victimhood. It is the ultimate validation of her false belief that she is "The Victim."

 

At the end of my 15-year marriage, for example, my exW had me arrested for "brutalizing" her. Because a BPDer usually is absolutely convinced that the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth are TRUE, she will be very convincing when the police show up. If you are arrested early on a Saturday morning -- as I was -- you will be in jail for nearly three days before you can go before a judge in arraignment on Monday afternoon.

 

I learned that -- in my city at least -- it is important that you be the first one to call the police (if you see that your W is hunting for the phone to do so). The police told me that, when the truth is in doubt for domestic violence allegations, they typically will arrest the person who DIDN'T make the call and then let the judge figure it out. Once, you are arrested, your W will find that obtaining a restraining order is effortless (the courts hand them out like candy when a husband is arrested). This means you won't be able to return to your own home. And it means that you will be at a great disadvantage during the child custody battle.

 

Finally, I note that it is unfortunate that you are near the ten-year mark in your marriage. Alimony payments typically make a big jump up when the divorcing couple has been married ten years. This is one reason, I believe, that many unhappy, low-income spouses try to hold on to the marriage until they reach the ten-year mark. Whether this applies in your state is something I don't know.

 

She has talked about suicide and saw on her phone that she has looked it up quite a bit.

Generally, it is the low-functioning BPDers who are at great risk of committing suicide. The risk is much lower for high-functioning BPDers, who typically threaten suicide as a way of trying to control their spouses. My exW, for example, walked to a high bridge several times while very depressed. Each time, she knew I was following protectively about a 100 feet behind her. When I stopped following one day, she stopped going to the bridge.

 

Instead, she started going to the nearest subway station, where she would call me from the platform just as a train was rumbling by (so I could hear that she really was on the platform). She would tell me that she was going to jump in front of the next train. Then she would hang up. Of course, I ran down to the subway station a couple of times, being fearful for her life. When I stopped running down there, she stopped doing this ruse too.

 

What really spooks me right now is that her dad's health is bad (had recent strokes) and when he passes I feel she will go off the deep end. She has always longed for his attention and guidance. He totally ignored her as a child and has a bad temper.

The current view of the psychiatric community is that BPD is largely caused (together with genetics) by a parent who is very invalidating to the young child. It therefore is not surprising that, in a recent large-scale study, 70% of the BPDers reported that they had been abandoned or abused by a parent in childhood.

 

I know she needs therapy but I don't know how else to encourage her to do it.

There are excellent treatment programs offered in most major cities. These treatments are totally useless, however, if the BPDer does not have a great desire to seek them out. Sadly, it is rare for a BPDer to have the self awareness and ego strength needed to stay in the program long enough to make a real difference.

 

The psychologist telling me she needs years of therapy, however that is something I was told to never tell my wife.

There are several reasons why it is unwise to tell a high functioning BPDer the name of her disorder. One reason is that her subconscious will protect her fragile ego from this allegation by projecting it right back onto you. Because this happens subconsciously, she likely will be immediately convinced YOU are the one having strong BPD traits.

 

Another reason therapists don't want to tell her is that a BPDer has such a fragile sense of self that she is always looking for a self image to latch onto. Hence, if she were to actually believe you are correct about her being a BPDer, you would be giving her a new "self identity" as "The BPDer." The result is that a BPDer's behavior likely will get worse. That is, a person who had been exhibiting 5 or 6 of the nine BPD traits may start exhibiting 8 or 9 of them.

 

A third reason for withholding the "BPD" diagnosis is that insurance companies typically refuse to cover BPD treatments, falsely claiming that it is untreatable. The therapist therefore knows that the client will lose coverage if the BPD diagnosis is listed. Instead, the therapist will list the co-occurring "clinical disorders," e.g., depression, anxiety, bipolar, or PTSD. Unlike the personality disorders, clinical disorders are covered by insurance.

[Clockwork]

I had a girlfriend who wasn't necessarily diagnosed with bi-polar disorder but she had ups and downs and the lack of awareness when she would create a scene in public, she either didn't know she was being so loud or didn't care. Her best excuse was "I'm Portugese, we all talk like that." Yeah, it didn't fly.

 

Anyway, I witnessed a couple suicide attempts and between her being on anti-depressants and the fact that I was practically being dragged down to her level is when I knew I had to get out for good, and I did. I didn't want to go into a marriage knowing that I would have to play "doctor" to her more than be her partner.

 

 

I don't envy a person married to someone like that but I chose to not stay with someone like that because they just drag you down and it never ends for them. I wanted to be happy.

[BlueIris]

...

 

I learned that -- in my city at least -- it is important that you be the first one to call the police (if you see that your W is hunting for the phone to do so). The police told me that, when the truth is in doubt for domestic violence allegations, they typically will arrest the person who DIDN'T make the call and then let the judge figure it out. Once, you are arrested, your W will find that obtaining a restraining order is effortless (the courts hand them out like candy when a husband is arrested). This means you won't be able to return to your own home. And it means that you will be at a great disadvantage during the child custody battle.

 

....

 

There are several reasons why it is unwise to tell a high functioning BPDer the name of her disorder. One reason is that her subconscious will protect her fragile ego from this allegation by projecting it right back onto you. Because this happens subconsciously, she likely will be immediately convinced YOU are the one having strong BPD traits.

 

I agree, and would like to add that in the end it doesn't matter what you think she has or telling her. Even if there was no explanation, you and your child aren't safe and it doesn't matter what label fits your wife. ETA: Also, the Court won't care so much about the label as about the behaviors and your child's safety.

 

Also, be sure that you are acting as a fully involved primary parent would- with the school, doctors, coaches and so on. Not in competition with your wife, but just as involved as she is, if you're not already.

 

It’s time to prepare to divorce, without telling her. I recommend William Eddy’s book, Splitting, to start. Here’s more from him:

Parenting & Divorce - High Conflict Institute

Transcript - Interview with Bill Eddy, Topic - Choosing a Divorce Family Law Attorney | Mr Custody Coach

 

Be sure to wipe your browsing history if you're doing research online.

 

Bill Eddy's right about how to go about divorcing someone like your wife. Be consistent, methodical, detached, and detailed in the steps you take and records you keep. Detachment is key. You can be fair and compassionate at one level, on a secondary level, while still being detached and prioritizing yourself and your daughter.

 

I can identify with the drive to understand what’s wrong and validating your perceptions, as well as having hope for change. I was married briefly (2nd marriage) to someone with untreated Bipolar I with psychotic features, who was formally diagnosed a few years after I divorced him. But like my ex and anyone with a serious problem like this, only your wife can decide if she’ll do all it takes to get better. No matter what she does, your well-being and your child’s are more important than the chaos and crises your wife generates. If your wife was healthy, she’d agree. As you shift into planning and navigating your course of action, and begin to take action, always remember that.

Edited September 4, 2014 by BlueIris

[Quiet Storm]

My sister is BPD and has a son. Just because she may not be abusing your daughter physically does not mean she is not harming your daughter.

 

My nephew is already codependent and almost acts like a caretaker of my sister, constantly monitoring her moods. He's ten now and you can really see the affect it has had on him. My son is the same age as him, and he worries about scoring soccer goals and how the Ravens are going to do this season. My nephew is the same age and worries about my sister's moods, how much my sister drank that day, if she will be happy to see him or screaming at him. He looks stressed instead of carefree and happy. They share custody & he spends a lot of time with his father, which is good, but it doesn't negate the impact the BPD has on him.

 

I'm sorry to say, but there is no solution here. I know I sound negative, but it's just how I see it. If you divorce your wife, then she will end up having a lot of alone time with your daughter. You can divorce and be free for your personal well being, but you still have a child with her, and it's your job to protect that child. Its unlikely you will get full custody unless she actually harms or neglects the child. At least if you are in the home, you can be a buffer for your daughter.

 

In my experience with my sister, no meds can cure BPD or make it significantly better. I think meds like benzos calm her down and stop a lot of the drama, but the underlying disorder & thought processes are still there. So I do think that your wife needs treatment and counseling, but understand that it's not a magic cure. It will take years to see any improvement, and that's if she does what the therapists advise her to do (which isn't likely).

 

So I suggest that you hang in there for your child. She needs you. She needs to know that her mom's behavior is not normal. That's the most important thing. I personally feel like your wife is probably a lost cause, and your efforts should be focused on your daughter. Get her some counseling, be the buffer, shield her from as much drama as possible, be her consistent rock that she can count on.

 

You also have to put your foot down sometimes. I know you want to give into your wife to avoid the drama, but sometimes you just have to stand up to her. You should have told your daughter to go to bed, and when your wife starts screaming tell her to grow up and just go to bed. One thing I noticed with my sister is that she HATES for certain people to see her drama or know about her BPD, and you can use exposure as a tool. Maybe say "Your behavior is out of control and ridiculous. I am taking a video of this so that you can see what you look like. You are setting a horrible example for our daughter". Then film her with your phone. It will anger her, but may snap her out of that particular rage.

 

Another thing is to say "You are not in control of your emotions right now and need help. I'm calling 911 and getting a psych evaluation. Your issues are too big for me to handle and they are affecting our daughter." If she continues, call 911 so she knows you mean it. Let them come and evaluate her, and do this every time she rages. She will hate you for it, but at least she will learn there are consequences. They may not admit her to a hospital, but just having the EMS people come & check her out will calm her down. My parents had much success with calling 911 every time my sister started to rage or threaten suicide. It showed my sister that they weren't going to just sit there and take it, they would call someone else to deal with her. It gives the BPD sufferer a clear consequence to make them think "Is screaming at my husband to make my point worth having to deal with the EMS people, and possibly going to the psych ward, and having other people see how crazy I'm acting?".

 

So sorry you and your daughter have to deal with this.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Quiet Storm

[Silveron]

Thank you all for the sound advice, I really appreciate the effort you put into your replies. It gives me something to use in the near future.

 

 

When she was physically abusive and when I would threaten to call the police, she told me if I did that she would harm herself and then blame it on me. She then said 'So now tell me, who are they going to believe?'. It's scary some of the things she has done in the past, including one morning just going nuts, jumping on top of our coffee table with her shoes on. I took my daughter and left. When I came back she tried to get me to believe this was normal behavior.

 

 

 

 

The only three traits she doesn't exhibit is:

3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;

(She actually encourages me to go out by myself. She has not gone out with me in months and when she does it's always very late (almost midnight). My mom is willing to have our daughter over any weekend night but majority of the time my wife declines.

 

 

12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well;

 

 

15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;

(She would normally just be alone, sometimes for hours on end.. usually on her phone (facebook). She will spend hours just looking at pictures and watching videos on there.

 

 

I know the future doesn't look good, the psychologist did tell me that if I were to actually leave there was a very high probably that she would kill herself. Both her parents have betrayed her really bad in the past (along with some other very bad abuse).

 

 

Two months ago there was a situation where I was going to call the police but my daughter begged me not too. That is the only reason I didn't, because of not wanting to put her through that trauma. I'm going to re-read your replies again so I can let it sink in on some of the things you have suggested.