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Understanding signs of reconciliation after separation?


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I posted last month about our "divorce". I say that because we were never actually married. together 12yrs with 2 kids. After months in MC trying to figure out why we were not clicking, I think even our therapist was totally confused by it all.

 

There is a lot of fixing to do and I realize that just "getting back together" would never work. HOWEVER, all I am trying to do at this point is figure out with some of the information I have so far, if she is just trying to be nice and cordial and I am to dense to push it off or what. I have NOT tried to get back with here or talk her into anything in a month. She moved out about 5 weeks ago.

 

Day after she moved, she admitted that she had some feelings come up that she was not expecting. Said she DOES love me. Said I am everything she desires in a life partner but "we don't know how to do that".

 

She moved like right down the street. I run a meat smoker some and mentioned I would be running on Sunday if she wanted any. I delivered stuff to her house and she prepared all kinds of fun stuff and we all had a family dinner together. I left after that.

 

We chatted a little in email about some of our shared interests (gardening) and she asks a few things here and there. She mentioned the other day about how my son feels I am the best dad anyone boy could want and she said "I agree!".

 

She also brought her car down the other day so I could fix a couple things and she stuck around for prob 30min just talking about small stuff, her friend that is a mess, etc. She also still cuts my hair.

 

I do know that just the other day she bought a personal vibrator device and I know she uses a dildo regularly now. One of my biggest complaints that always graded on me was we got to a point of sex 2x/mo maybe. She caught my PC history looking on dating sites. I told her before and was not hiding the fact that if nothing is going to change, I am OUT. I have more sex drive and cannot handle the frustration. I did not cheat!!!! Well, other than look. Some call that cheating.

 

There have been ZERO talks of getting back together, hanging out together, etc. I have read that any pursuit from my side is NOT a good idea. To be honest, if it is truly and truly over, I would rather cut that cord and curb the small talk. I just don't know what to do right now. I almost think she is just waiting and probably expected me to already be on the dating market....just to see if I had a girl on the side or something.

 

I know some might try to pin this on as "I did it to myself" but I am sorry, sex has been tapering off for years even after mentioning it. I notice now that she probably jabs herself 3-4x/week now! I am PISSED. That is part of what made me blow a gasket before. She does not put out, then I come home to find a wet mess on the bed and a slobbery dildo.

 

She just does not talk. Passive and more passive. I have never met someone that would just steam inside but not SAY what they want or need.

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I figured I should add that she is not seeing anyone. I know it has been only a short time but I would think most would think if there was a toy on the side, that would have come to light after the move. If there is one, she is GOOD but I very highly doubt it. I know her schedule well and she has made zero attempt to be secretive.

 

As well, I actually have a key to her place. Actually she gave it to my son to go get things when needed but as expected, he immediately abused the privilege so we agreed that I would hold the key and render its use.

 

I would sure think if there was really something to hide, she would want to make real sure I could not get in or maybe she just trusts me. I'll have to admit that I was down the other day and looked around a little.

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I am not sure what your question is here. Are you wondering why you are splitting up? Are you wanting to understand why she is so disconnected from you? are you wanting to get back together?

Define your questions and your objectives a little more and maybe we can address those concerns a little more specifically.

In the mean time I'll give you my thoughts as an outside observer-

 

 

 

 

I posted last month about our "divorce". I say that because we were never actually married. together 12yrs with 2 kids.

 

 

That right there says volumes. Part of why there is such a disconnect taking place here is that you have no real commitment in the first place. You've lived in the same house for a dozen years and have children together but there is no legal, social or spiritual commitment or bond. You are two single people sharing rent and sharing childrearing responsibilities and used to hook up with each other but by not marrying, you are basically telling each other that you are free to walk away when it is no longer fun. Women have a hard time feeling safe and secure and loved and valued and appreciated by the guy banging her if there is no formal commitment. Just from the information of 12 years with no formal commitment tells me she finally got tired of giving the milk away for free and got tired of the roommate agreement even though you were helping her raise her children.

 

 

 

 

After months in MC trying to figure out why we were not clicking, I think even our therapist was totally confused by it all.

 

 

He/She was probably confused why you were even in counseling.

 

 

There is a lot of fixing to do and I realize that just "getting back together" would never work.

 

 

 

 

Women are a million times more insightful than men. Just by having that attitude is often enough to make them disconnect and move on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HOWEVER, all I am trying to do at this point is figure out with some of the information I have so far, if she is just trying to be nice and cordial and I am to dense to push it off or what. I have NOT tried to get back with here or talk her into anything in a month. She moved out about 5 weeks ago.

 

Day after she moved, she admitted that she had some feelings come up that she was not expecting. Said she DOES love me. Said I am everything she desires in a life partner but "we don't know how to do that".

 

 

Translation - She doesn't think you are a bad person and she harbors no illwill towards you. There are going to be feelings of warmth after living with someone and raising children with them for a dozen years but she knows that she isn't going to have the connection and the closeness and commitment with you that she wants in a partner and that realization has made her disconnect and move on.

 

 

 

 

 

We chatted a little in email about some of our shared interests (gardening) and she asks a few things here and there. She mentioned the other day about how my son feels I am the best dad anyone boy could want and she said "I agree!".

 

 

She acknowledges you are good with the boy. That doesn't mean she loves you and wants to be with you as a partner anymore.

 

 

She also brought her car down the other day so I could fix a couple things and she stuck around for prob 30min just talking about small stuff, her friend that is a mess, etc. She also still cuts my hair.

 

 

Look up the term - "friendzone."

 

I do know that just the other day she bought a personal vibrator device and I know she uses a dildo regularly now. One of my biggest complaints that always graded on me was we got to a point of sex 2x/mo maybe.

 

 

 

 

Female Libido 101 that your mother should have taught you when you were coming of age. Female sexual response is extremely closely tied to their hearts and emotions. If they don't feel close and connected and safe and cherished and appreciated and desired and respected etc etc, their sexual responses and desires are not going to follow.

Sparkly blue eyes and bulging biceps and cute, tight butts may stimulate a gals desire for a guy she meets in a bar for a night or two. but that will quickly fade if there isn't an emotional component and security to back it up. A purely sexual response will work to make a gal attracted to a guy in the very short term, but it will take a much deeper emotional connection to keep her attracted to him and desire him in the long term.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

She caught my PC history looking on dating sites. I told her before and was not hiding the fact that if nothing is going to change, I am OUT.

 

 

 

 

That just dumped a big ol' bucket of gas on her feelings of disconnect and lack of commitment and appreciation for her on your part. It was just another brick in the wall that has been going up between you for a long time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have more sex drive and cannot handle the frustration. I did not cheat!!!! Well, other than look. Some call that cheating.

 

 

In her subconscious mind, the fact that your penis hasn't made it's way into someone else's vagina yet is just a technicality. She knows you are dissatisfied with her and knows that eventually you are going to find someone else. She is simply disengaging and moving on on her terms preemptively rather than waiting for you to cheat on her or to leave her for someone else.

 

 

There have been ZERO talks of getting back together, hanging out together, etc.

 

 

And each day there isn't, both of you disengage even more.

 

 

 

 

I have read that any pursuit from my side is NOT a good idea.

 

 

Yes and no. If she was engaged in bad behavior and mistreating you and cheating on you or abandoning you without just cause or was turning into a drunk or an abuser, then yes, pursuing her would not be a good idea.

However you need to realize that the reason she is disengaging and moving on is because she was not getting the connection and commitment and respect and appreciation and love from you that she was wanting/needing.

If you truly love her and want her as your wife and mother of your children in your home to love and cherish her and be with her as your life partner, then you need to do 180 degree turnaround and lay it all on the table and fight for her.

However on the other hand, if you are as disconnected from her and as apathetic towards her as you seem and as your words and tone indicate, then you should continue your current course and let nature take it's course and break up with her without baggage and without complications and strive for as amicable separation as possible and coparent together from separate homes and lives as cooperatively as you can.

 

 

 

 

To be honest, if it is truly and truly over, I would rather cut that cord and curb the small talk.

 

 

I agree. If it is over, let it die as dignified death as possible and keep things cordial and respectful for the sake of coparenting your children from two different homes as effectively as you can with as little chaos and bitterness and illwill as possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just don't know what to do right now. I almost think she is just waiting and probably expected me to already be on the dating market....just to see if I had a girl on the side or something.

 

 

 

 

That is a very reasonable thing for her to think and do. She has just cause to feel that way. You are very disconnected from her and show no passion or yearning for her and show her no reason to believe that you love her or want to be with her other than to drain your sperm tank into her when it's feeling a little full.

 

I know some might try to pin this on as "I did it to myself" but I am sorry, sex has been tapering off for years even after mentioning it.

 

 

That is because of the aforementioned emotional disconnect and lack of commitment and lack of closeness that I have discussed before.

She is likely feeling that the only reason you want her around is for easy access to a vagina to drain your tank into when it starts to get full.

 

 

 

 

I notice now that she probably jabs herself 3-4x/week now! I am PISSED.

 

 

Supporting evidence to make few statements.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is part of what made me blow a gasket before. She does not put out, then I come home to find a wet mess on the bed and a slobbery dildo.

 

 

She is still a healthy, functioning woman with sexual needs and sexual desires. She just feels no sexual desire FOR YOU because of the degree of emotional disconnect and apathy you have for her. To her, you are just some guy that is keeping her around for her vagina but has no true love or appreciation or respect for her. You are just another horny guy that wants a warm, wet hole to stick his dck into and there are billions of those out there.

 

 

 

 

She just does not talk. Passive and more passive.

 

 

She just has nothing to say to you anymore. In her mind you are just another guy that doesn't love her, doesn't cherish her, doesn't respect her and only wants to be with her so his sperm tank doesn't get too full. She's not going to discuss anything of any depth because you are just another hustler to her.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have never met someone that would just steam inside but not SAY what they want or need.

 

 

This is where you missed the boat. She HAS told you what she wanted and what she needed. It just went over your head and you were too wrapped up in your own world to hear it. She did tell you many times, you either weren't paying attention or you heard it and knew what she wanted, you just didn't care or just weren't willing or able to give it to her.

This may have been many years ago but if you really think back, you will remember many times of her telling you what she wanted and what she needed but you were either too busy with something else to really listen and have it sink in. Or you heard it but just didn't want to bother with it.

She's not talking to you know because she's already said it a hundred times but you didn't bother with it then so why should you bother with it now.

And quite frankly, now that she is down the street and out of the house, she will probably even be pissed if you suddenly try to do a 180 degrees and try to connect with her now. There is an excellent chance she will just think you are trying to get your sperm drainer back now that you have a 5 week tank built up.

If for some reason you sincerely do want her back and want to be together as a happy couple and not just for some poontang, I honestly don't know what to tell you. If your own marriage counselor was lost and didn't know what to do, I certainly don't.

 

 

 

 

 

My responses to your post are above in bold.

 

 

I'm not sure what your actual questions are but my general impression is that this was some gal that you had some sexual hots for and kept her around and got her knocked up and you spent many years trying to make it look like you were playing house to appease her and keep her around so she would keep sucking your dck but you never truly loved or cherished her and was never really willing to commit to her and she finally just got tired of it and realized the futility of it and finally got tired of being used as a sperm receptacle and decided to move on with her life.

 

 

She doesn't hate you and nothing you have said indicates any kind of abuse or addiction or true abandonment - just apathy and convenience, so there is no true bitterness or ill-will.

 

 

This disconnect from both of your sides has been coming on for many years.

 

 

This will take a hell of a lot of work and communication and compromise to get back to anything even remotely like what either of you want. But both of you will probably have new dating potentials and new interests in your lives within a month or two.

 

 

"it's easier to give birth than it is to resurrect the dead"

 

 

-Athol Kay

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I figured I should add that she is not seeing anyone. I know it has been only a short time but I would think most would think if there was a toy on the side, that would have come to light after the move. If there is one, she is GOOD but I very highly doubt it. I know her schedule well and she has made zero attempt to be secretive.

 

As well, I actually have a key to her place. Actually she gave it to my son to go get things when needed but as expected, he immediately abused the privilege so we agreed that I would hold the key and render its use.

 

I would sure think if there was really something to hide, she would want to make real sure I could not get in or maybe she just trusts me. I'll have to admit that I was down the other day and looked around a little.

 

 

 

If there isn't anyone else at the moment, there will be soon. And quite frankly it won't even be cheating. You two are so disconnected and so much space between you, you are essentially are two single people. And since there was never any marriage or formal commitment you are technically single as well.

 

 

It's just a matter of time before one of you meets someone else and begins dating again.

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Oldshirt, I sincerely appreciate your responses and you sound much wise than me!

 

I will try to clarify in hopes you can aim me down, well, a better road than I am on. I honestly DO want her back, miss her terribly, and I want to work on the things I need help with.

 

I honestly just cannot tell if the communications I have with her mean anything or if I am just reading too much into it. I know she had divorced parents growing up and they got along SUPER. I already told her in counseling that if we stay apart, do not expect me to call and chat, stop in for dinner, etc. The way I look at it, she ripped my heart out, what would I want to be fuzzy around her? Maybe that is a childish way of looking at it but if we did not have kids, cutting the cord would be much easier.

 

Now, I will be honest here, we BOTH were in a play phase when she got knocked up. I moved her in with me for her/child safety. I was hoping to see where that went but was too hard for me to try and focus on forever at 22yo. She moved out but we started seeing each other shortly after because some feelings came up that I was not expecting.

 

I will make this clear as a bell, I DO NOT consider her just a vag to hump. We connect well with many other things. I can think of no better Sunday than waking up with her, drinking coffee, and watching the kids be kids for half the day. I don;t realize how much I love her until I talk to other women and realize what I have (had).

 

The issue is I do not yet know what I should really do to get her back. I hear people say pleading or negotiating is NOT the answer. However, completely disconnecting seems a bad idea too. She has told me when we were together that she HATES when I ignore her and go on a shut out phase. It almost seems the same now. If I go 3-4 days with no emails, she will try to stoke the fire it seems with small talk. Almost like you say.....The "friend zone". I don't want to be her friend though. She told me me she enjoys my fun emails. However, without any talks of relationship, nothing is going to change. That is what always hurt is, we talk about EVERYTHING ELSE, expect what counts.

 

How should I proceed to truly learn if there is anything here worth saving? I WILL fight for her if that is her desire!!! However, I don't want to waste my time if she is over it.

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Oldshirt, I sincerely appreciate your responses and you sound much wise than me!

 

I will try to clarify in hopes you can aim me down, well, a better road than I am on. I honestly DO want her back, miss her terribly, and I want to work on the things I need help with.

 

I honestly just cannot tell if the communications I have with her mean anything or if I am just reading too much into it. I know she had divorced parents growing up and they got along SUPER. I already told her in counseling that if we stay apart, do not expect me to call and chat, stop in for dinner, etc. The way I look at it, she ripped my heart out, what would I want to be fuzzy around her? Maybe that is a childish way of looking at it but if we did not have kids, cutting the cord would be much easier.

 

Now, I will be honest here, we BOTH were in a play phase when she got knocked up. I moved her in with me for her/child safety. I was hoping to see where that went but was too hard for me to try and focus on forever at 22yo. She moved out but we started seeing each other shortly after because some feelings came up that I was not expecting.

 

I will make this clear as a bell, I DO NOT consider her just a vag to hump. We connect well with many other things. I can think of no better Sunday than waking up with her, drinking coffee, and watching the kids be kids for half the day. I don;t realize how much I love her until I talk to other women and realize what I have (had).

 

The issue is I do not yet know what I should really do to get her back. I hear people say pleading or negotiating is NOT the answer. However, completely disconnecting seems a bad idea too. She has told me when we were together that she HATES when I ignore her and go on a shut out phase. It almost seems the same now. If I go 3-4 days with no emails, she will try to stoke the fire it seems with small talk. Almost like you say.....The "friend zone". I don't want to be her friend though. She told me me she enjoys my fun emails. However, without any talks of relationship, nothing is going to change. That is what always hurt is, we talk about EVERYTHING ELSE, expect what counts.

 

How should I proceed to truly learn if there is anything here worth saving? I WILL fight for her if that is her desire!!! However, I don't want to waste my time if she is over it.

 

 

 

 

 

You have a lot of indifference and a lot of "lets-see-what-she-wants..." in your words.

 

 

The impression I am getting is you are playing off of her words and her actions to a large degree here. In other words if she were tell you it's over and she were to start seeing someone else etc, you would simply say, "ok, I guess that is that.." and you would shut the door behind you and move on with your own life without missing a beat.

 

 

That is not what women need in order to be in a home and family and happy marriage with a man.

 

 

This is going to be sexist and traditional but the world is what the world is. Men are supposed to be leaders and the head of the household in families. Men are the ones that determine the parameters of relationship and set the course of how the relationship is going to be. Men are the ones that make the commitment and take the stand. Women choose whether they are going to accept his offer and follow his lead or not.

 

 

You have not shown that leadership and have not made that commitment at all.

 

 

-You were messing around with some gal from the bar (I'm speaking figuratively here) and got her unintentionally knocked up. you weren't in love with her, were not in a committed relationship with her, had not proposed any form of committed future with her. You just kind of bumbled your way into a house with pregnant woman and eventually a baby.

 

 

- you never got down on one knee, looked into her eyes and proposed marriage, commitment and a future life together.

 

 

- you never laid out any kind of future blueprint of a life together with her. you never laid out where she would be in your life or where you would be in her's.

 

 

- you had children with her but never offered her nor your children the legal protections of marriage. (which also means that you did not go through any of legal processes to protect your own legal rights to your children which is also a huge huge message of indifference towards your children )

 

 

- you let her pack her stuff and leave.

 

 

- then you were lonely and missed having her around (she likely assumes you missed her vagina) and you guys kind of made your way back under the same roof again.

 

 

- you threatened her with leaving her and finding someone else if she didn't screw you to your liking.

 

 

- you were on dating sites looking for back up plans and didn't really care that she found out about.

 

 

- you let her pack up your family and leave again.

 

 

- you have basically been telling her through word and deed that you are ok that she has packed up your children and moved into a new home and begun a new life without you.

 

 

I'm sure I'm leaving some stuff out here but can you see my point? Show me where you have shown any backbone and shown any leadership and shown any active and proactive management and initiative in guiding and leading your family's future????

 

 

For a woman to feel lasting love and desire and respect and admiration for a man, she has to feel that he has the inner strength and leadership and determination to actually "WANT" to have a wife and family and is ready, willing and able to draw a sword and slay dragons and fight off hoards of mongol invaders to protect them.

............ you let her simply pack bags and put down a deposit on a new place and load up the car and leave.

 

 

She may not ever truly forgive you for that.

 

 

 

 

You may not have been abusive nor adulterous nor a drunken, unemployed slob, but you have shown a huge lack of maturity and lack of commitment and lack of appreciation and honor for a partner and a family. You have been like a cork bobbing in the water drifting wherever the current and winds take you. She probably hasn't felt like you really care or actually want her and the kids in your life and she reached a point where she realized she doesn't really need you anymore and wants to find someone that will have an actual passion to be with her and make the effort to show some leadership and determination to actually create and manage a life for her.

 

 

I don't know if you can turn this around or even if you should.

 

 

If she were my daughter I would tell her that you have had 12 years to show some leadership and some maturity and have failed so there would be no reason to continue the relationship another day.

 

 

If she were the one writing in to these forums, I have little doubt that all of the advice would be move on with her life and start anew and to leave the manboy to play with his toys and find a grown up man who will partner with her and commit to her and determine a new future with her.

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The issue is I do not yet know what I should really do to get her back. I hear people say pleading or negotiating is NOT the answer.

 

 

There is a world of difference between pleading and negotiating vs making future plans, commitments and leadership.

You aren't getting that. That is the root of the problem. I don't know if you can fix it.

 

 

 

 

However, completely disconnecting seems a bad idea too.

 

 

Disconnecting at this point is 100% assurance of the end of relationship.

 

 

 

 

She has told me when we were together that she HATES when I ignore her and go on a shut out phase.

 

 

 

 

Gee, I can't imagine why??? what a strange lady.

(that was complete sarcasm by the way)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

. If I go 3-4 days with no emails, she will try to stoke the fire it seems with small talk. Almost like you say.....The "friend zone". I don't want to be her friend though. She told me me she enjoys my fun emails. However, without any talks of relationship, nothing is going to change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

OK let me translate this again - She is looking towards you to show some leadership and determination. She doesn't want you asking her how she feels or what she wants to do. She wants to see if you have some kind of future plan and have the wherewithal and the strength, skill and giblets to actually make it happen.

So far you are failing miserably at that.

 

 

 

 

That is what always hurt is, we talk about EVERYTHING ELSE, expect what counts.

 

 

That's because you are waiting for her to do it. Wake up call here- You are the one that was born with balls dangling between your legs, that means YOU are the one with the responsibility to determine where the relationship needs to go and how to get there.

 

 

It may be a double standard, it may be unfair and it may be hard, nasty work but that is how Mother Nature designed us whether we all like it or agree with it or not.

 

How should I proceed to truly learn if there is anything here worth saving?

 

 

You proceed how you think you should proceed as a family even if the odds are completely against you and there is no assurance of success at all.

 

 

 

 

I WILL fight for her if that is her desire!!!

 

 

Wrong answer. You're not getting it.

You fight for her if it is YOUR desire. You fight for your desire and it is up to her if she determines you have the strength, wisdom and determination that she deserves or not.

If it's not your desire you let her go so that she can find someone who will fight for her.

 

 

 

 

However, I don't want to waste my time if she is over it.

 

 

You will only waste time if you try to make an appearance of fighting for it if YOU are in fact the one that is over it. It has to real and it has to be sincere in order for it to mean a thing.

I question your sincerity and your commitment to this. God only knows what questions are going through her mind.

 

 

 

 

 

Specific responses above.

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OK, please allow me to share a few more details of our relationship. I realize you don;t know us but I honestly feel we BOTH are guilty of being "renters" rather than "buyers".

 

However, Approx 4yrs ago, I made some big changes trying to improve our situation. I DID propose to her and we were engaged. I worked hard to sell her other home, we moved back into my home, and we purchased a large property together to build on.

 

As well, about 4yrs ago, her father passed and there were a LOT of loose ends. I worked countless hours on her behalf to setting the estate, sell off assets, and in general, protect her interests as the trustee. Her other family are ZERO help and if there is one thing about me for sure, in a time of need, I come through EVERY time without fail. She knows this and would vouch for it.

 

I told her I was hoping to build in about 1yr after moving back to my place. It actually took a year just to find the right property and things are getting more expensive and here we are 3yrs later and still not moved out there. I am in business and engineering and do my very best to plan and execute but I just cannot predict the future or economic climate.

 

We have sort of made the plan that I will buy her out of the property and WILL build out there on my own. I am working nonstop right now in business to afford this venture. I am not a quitter, I will continue to fight when everyone else expects me to give up and I will see something through.

 

So... we were engaged, right.... Just one day I noticed she was not wearing our engagement ring. Then another day and another day. She did not say a word, just takes off the ring. I guess I am too dense here but why do I have to drive the ENTIRE relationship? I would think the respectful thing from her would be to at least discuss or tell me!

 

Her entire family is divorced several times. Her mom married 4x. I just want to know that if I am to commit to something through IT ALL, that my spouse will do the same. I have never seen that level of respect or commitment. I don't know if this is a leap of faith thing I don't get or what.

 

I was raised Catholic so believe me, family values and married are firmly ingrained even though I wondered off my path a bit. I am certainly able to make the commitment but I honestly sometimes need a little input on my performance. Is it too much to ask for a spouse to say "hey, we need some time together!"

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I might mention that I did some cooking a while back and offered to take some to her. It ended up as a family dinner for all of us. I decided to offer to do some cooking tonight so I guess I am headed down to have another family dinner. Last time I was expecting to just drop off some stuff. I walked in and the table was set. I was a little surprised.

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So... we were engaged, right.... Just one day I noticed she was not wearing our engagement ring. Then another day and another day. She did not say a word, just takes off the ring. I guess I am too dense here but why do I have to drive the ENTIRE relationship? I would think the respectful thing from her would be to at least discuss or tell me!

 

 

 

 

You should not have to drive the entire relationship at all. It may be your responsibility to LEAD the relationship but if she isn't following at all then that is grounds to relieve her and if she has no inclination to follow then she should walk.

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